17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[puukao]

They KNEW the rules....they broke the Law.

If you don't like the LAWS of the home country, leave...

I say permanent ban from Earth.....

I say trace all youtubers uploading from Thailand trying to make money.....and fine them. they are working, YES they are working, without a work permit

if you don't like the laws.......bye bye or face the wrath!!!!!!!

[FritsSikkink]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

If any foreigner where caught in Thailand for working online it would have been first page news.

read: anywhere in the world

[FritsSikkink]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

Because it's a ridiculous notion. Imagine a western country arresting a Thai on a tourist visa for selling ebooks on Amazon in Thai language, to Thais... wouldn't happen.

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

Actually if you Google it the only thing that comes up is ThaiVisa and related Thailand blogs... basically no one in the world cares about this except middle aged and old moody expats on messageboards.

try it in the USA without a greencard

[ev1lchris]

Is getting caught teaching illegally rare?

[FritsSikkink]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

[/quote

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

.

jeez you are simple, tell the same to any tax employer in the world, see what he says

[Anthony5]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

Because it's a ridiculous notion. Imagine a western country arresting a Thai on a tourist visa for selling ebooks on Amazon in Thai language, to Thais... wouldn't happen.

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

Actually if you Google it the only thing that comes up is ThaiVisa and related Thailand blogs... basically no one in the world cares about this except middle aged and old moody expats on messageboards.

try it in the USA without a greencard

So you gonna post a link to such an arrest in the US, or will you claim that nobody does it in there?

[jspill]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

[/quote

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

.

jeez you are simple, tell the same to any tax employer in the world, see what he says

I'm not required to pay tax to the UK...

Are you from the US? Other than Eritrea it's the only country in the world to tax citizens on their worldwide income, so why is what I'm saying off base?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizenship

[silverado]

i don't find it is a good idea to start illegal (or legal) work/bussiness in thailand.... if you can make money, then make it in your own countries, it should be more interresting $$$$.... but i suppose there are some loosers/scammers ready to take big risks for a pîttance.... there are not big criminels but in thailand the least problem with authorities can become serious..... new in this country , i already know that

Edited August 15, 2015 by silverado

[balo]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

Because it's a ridiculous notion. Imagine a western country arresting a Thai on a tourist visa for selling ebooks on Amazon in Thai language, to Thais... wouldn't happen.

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

Actually if you Google it the only thing that comes up is ThaiVisa and related Thailand blogs... basically no one in the world cares about this except middle aged and old moody expats on messageboards.

try it in the USA without a greencard

I already did , stayed in the US for 2 months and worked online from my computer. Nobody cares who I send e-mails to or who I send files to from the US as long as its not any criminal activities going on.

I do not receive my salary in the US so why should they care.

Edited August 16, 2015 by metisdead
2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Never heard of the world wide "tinternet", LOL.

But seriously though, while of course you can teach anyone from anywhere in the world, I find it odd that westerners would teach English online from THAILAND to CHINESE people in CHINA? I mean, why not just live in China and do that? Or teach Thais online from Thailand. Or teach Chinese people online from your home country?

No wonder they were busted, someone was upset that they were teaching foreigners from Thailand, which does nothing for the Thai people. Otherwise there wouldn't have been this kind of response.

Tinternet is a well-known slang term, a parody of the Northern British accent, explanations all over Google.

The Chinese will pay more, but it's less fun to live in China. And more expensive to live in their home country. I don't know what's so strange about it.

They were busted because they worked in a physical office for a Thai entity being paid in Baht, and said Thai entity did shady things relating to taxes. There isn't any evidence Thailand would have a problem with me teaching online and being paid in USD, alone, and sending that offshore sourced money to Thailand to spend here. Thailand has never explicitly stated that remote working isn't allowed, or given a clear definition of 'working in Thailand' when it comes to work permit laws. But common sense dictates that it means being employed by a Thai entity.

bullshit, the rules are very clear, if you work in thailand and live here you need a workpermit and pay taxes

Bullshit. As we've discussed before, Thai law has the wooliest definition of work possible - in fact the definition is not a definition, it is a circular reference that says 'work is work'.

Regardless of whether an activity performed remotely for non Thai entities requires a Work Permit or not, income that the poster you responded to describes - 'being paid in USD, alone, and sending that offshore sourced money to Thailand to spend here' - is legally not subject to Thai income tax, so long as it is kept out of Thailand until the next tax year.

I'm also very interested in any single example internationally of a remote worker being prosecuted for working illegally.

Edited August 15, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[gk10002000]

I think it was a stretch. The people must have really needed work to take these jobs or, they really wanted to spend time in Thailand. While they may be living better than in their own countries, 30k baht a month is not a lot for enjoying life, carrying proper insurance, etc.

[jspill]

I say trace all youtubers uploading from Thailand trying to make money.....and fine them. they are working, YES they are working, without a work permit

if you don't like the laws.......bye bye or face the wrath!!!!!!!

There are many foreigners teaching English to Thais on youtube and blogs... Google 'English by chris' for one example.

Tens of thousands of happy, grateful followers. Some videos with over 200k views. Videos and website both monetized with Adsense.

It's not possible to get a work permit for online work. If he has one for teaching in a school, it doesn't technically cover what he's doing online.

Yet the authorities have done nothing. It would seem they're not insane like some bitter forum posters.

[Kitsune]

It's just a huge hypocrisy as usual.

All he schools rely on foreign staffs and 80% of them won't grant work permit.

And why would they?

If caught only the foreigner gets arrested, the school walks away free to hire the next bunch of EU/US suckers.

[ColdSingha]

I say trace all youtubers uploading from Thailand trying to make money.....and fine them. they are working, YES they are working, without a work permit

if you don't like the laws.......bye bye or face the wrath!!!!!!!

There are many foreigners teaching English to Thais on youtube and blogs... Google 'English by chris' for one example.

Tens of thousands of happy, grateful followers. Some videos with over 200k views. Videos and website both monetized with Adsense.

It's not possible to get a work permit for online work. If he has one for teaching in a school, it doesn't technically cover what he's doing online.

Yet the authorities have done nothing. It would seem they're not insane like some bitter forum posters.

about sums it up.

maybe time to close this thread as its OLD news now?

Edited August 16, 2015 by ColdSingha

[balo]

I say trace all youtubers uploading from Thailand trying to make money.....and fine them. they are working, YES they are working, without a work permit

if you don't like the laws.......bye bye or face the wrath!!!!!!!

There are many foreigners teaching English to Thais on youtube and blogs... Google 'English by chris' for one example.

Tens of thousands of happy, grateful followers. Some videos with over 200k views. Videos and website both monetized with Adsense.

It's not possible to get a work permit for online work. If he has one for teaching in a school, it doesn't technically cover what he's doing online.

Yet the authorities have done nothing. It would seem they're not insane like some bitter forum posters.

Yes Chris is famous and he's been several times on Thai TV shows. I would think he earns around $1000 per month on online work and his youtube channel, You can open an Adsense account anywhere in the world , and we are all resposnible for reporting tax on or income to our home country.

[torpedo1970]

yeah, today they needed to speak bad about foreigners, but maybe tomorrow they will speak loudly about how being a digital nomad is something that Thailand don't worry about....

seems like it is only the issue about physical location ( a office) that is the crime here...

as i have seen statements from the government that it is OK to work online in Thailand (as a digital nomad) as long as you don't work for clients in Thailand...

a lot of grey and loopholes for greedy BIB to collect "tea-money"

[Soutpeel]

Digital nomads were working here with zero issues 6 months ago when this thread started...

still are today when one of the anti-online worker crew bumped the thread...

and still will be 6 months from now...

Seen these threads on TVF for years but the reality is there's never been an arrest or prosecution for working online, for remote entities, in any country in the world. And likely never will be.

how would you know if nobody has been caught anywhere in the world. BS statement

Because it's a ridiculous notion. Imagine a western country arresting a Thai on a tourist visa for selling ebooks on Amazon in Thai language, to Thais... wouldn't happen.

What people do at home online to generate residual income is no one's business.

Actually if you Google it the only thing that comes up is ThaiVisa and related Thailand blogs... basically no one in the world cares about this except middle aged and old moody expats on messageboards.

try it in the USA without a greencard

I already did , stayed in the US for 2 months and worked online from my computer. Nobody cares who I send e-mails to or who I send files to from the US as long as its not any criminal activities going on.

I do not receive my salary in the US so why should they care.

Still waited for the link from you which indicates CM immigration permits DP'ing as you stated in a previous post.... take your time

[Soutpeel]

yeah, today they needed to speak bad about foreigners, but maybe tomorrow they will speak loudly about how being a digital nomad is something that Thailand don't worry about....

seems like it is only the issue about physical location ( a office) that is the crime here...

as i have seen statements from the government that it is OK to work online in Thailand (as a digital nomad) as long as you don't work for clients in Thailand...

a lot of grey and loopholes for greedy BIB to collect "tea-money"

No you havent please show me, you have seen no statements from the Thai goverment stating this and any statements from immigration typically are in response to tourists checking work emails while on holiday in Thailand further immigration doesnt define what is or isnt working in Thailand, the department of labour (DOL) does,

this question is not even in the remit of immigration of course the DM will keep throwing in immigation says this and that as a red herring, the only department who will answer this question definitively is the DOL

You will recall a thread on TV regarding prohibited occupations in Thailand some days ago....who issued that list with all the messed up English ? The Ministry of Labour not immigration so this shows whose remit this question falls under

Edited August 16, 2015 by Soutpeel

[jspill]

You will recall a thread on TV regarding prohibited occupations in Thailand some days ago....who issued that list with all the messed up English ? The Ministry of Labour not immigration so this shows whose remit this question falls under

And nowhere on that list of prohibited occupations was people with internet blogs, that are nothing to do with Thailand, being paid in USD on Paypal, then wiring it to Kasikorn to spend in Thailand.

Because that would be totally insane.

[Soutpeel]

You will recall a thread on TV regarding prohibited occupations in Thailand some days ago....who issued that list with all the messed up English ? The Ministry of Labour not immigration so this shows whose remit this question falls under

And nowhere on that list of prohibited occupations was people with internet blogs, that are nothing to do with Thailand, being paid in USD on Paypal, then wiring it to Kasikorn to spend in Thailand.

Because that would be totally insane.

Oh dear grasping at straws again are ? All my post was to show that what is or isnt working in Thailand is not under immigrations remit but under the DOL

As i have challanged before any of DN are welcome to visit the DOL and get a letter off them stating " Mr xyz, pp number xyz, part time gay porn actor, can operate his on line business from Thailand without a WP"

Signed Somchai head of the DOL

And the day that happens it will be my last ever comment on DP's as the case is closed

Lets face facts shall we if DN are so confident in their assertions that is all above board and legal then they shouldnt have a problem getting clarifcation from the DOL should they ? Had a few dealings with the DOL over the years and found them nothing but helpful

Edited August 16, 2015 by Soutpeel

[jspill]

It would seem more natural to place the burden of proof on you - to prove it is not legal.

Since, you know, there's never been an arrest or even any comment on the matter. In fact the Alien Labor act makes no mention of online work, but repeatedly mentions having a 'Thai Employer', a 'Thai Baht salary', over a dozen times.

You can take the video I made for the Thailand Tourism board down there, the one you think is gay porn (strange fixation on that) and ask them.

[Soutpeel]

It would seem more natural to place the burden of proof on you - to prove it is not legal.

Since, you know, there's never been an arrest or even any comment on the matter. In fact the Alien Labor act makes no mention of online work, but repeatedly mentions having a 'Thai Employer', a 'Thai Baht salary', over a dozen times.

You can take the video I made for the Thailand Tourism board down there, the one you think is gay porn (strange fixation on that) and ask them.

.

Why would it be more natural ? Because you dont want to walk in the DOL and ask ? I dont need to prove anything dear boy i am fully legal personnally, i want a DN in their personal capacity to prove they dont need a WP for the particular on line business they are running, i cant do that for someone can I ?

"Thai toursim board " what are you talking about i made no reference to you personally in my post...but seeing as you raised the point assume said video was shot in Thailand so you should have had a WP which i assume you did ?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Scott]

I think we can dispense with this legal/illegal discussion of those earning money on the internet.

In a meeting held sometime ago by a person (with a valid visa and work permit), he presented this same question to a higher up in Immigration. The officer responded that individuals who earn money are not a target. He stated that first it would be nearly impossible to prove and it would require extensive investigation and whether or not a charge would actually hold up was debatable. He was clear, however, that if you have people obviously working in an office, it is illegal and they will likely face legal action.

For all intents and purposes, the officer did not know for sure if it was legal or not.

[Soutpeel]

I think we can dispense with this legal/illegal discussion of those earning money on the internet.

In a meeting held sometime ago by a person (with a valid visa and work permit), he presented this same question to a higher up in Immigration. The officer responded that individuals who earn money are not a target. He stated that first it would be nearly impossible to prove and it would require extensive investigation and whether or not a charge would actually hold up was debatable. He was clear, however, that if you have people obviously working in an office, it is illegal and they will likely face legal action.

For all intents and purposes, the officer did not know for sure if it was legal or not.

As stated previously its not in immigrations remit to decide the legality or not its the DOL

Further where or even if one earns money is irrelevant in terms of the current defintion of work in Thailand

Is it worth chasing them ? Most likely not from a cost point of view, but just because they dont chase it doesnt make it legal either

Edited August 16, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Throatwobbler]

I think we can dispense with this legal/illegal discussion of those earning money on the internet.

In a meeting held sometime ago by a person (with a valid visa and work permit), he presented this same question to a higher up in Immigration. The officer responded that individuals who earn money are not a target. He stated that first it would be nearly impossible to prove and it would require extensive investigation and whether or not a charge would actually hold up was debatable. He was clear, however, that if you have people obviously working in an office, it is illegal and they will likely face legal action.

For all intents and purposes, the officer did not know for sure if it was legal or not.

As stated previously its not in immigrations remit to decide the legality or not its the DOL

Further where or even if one earns money is irrelevant in terms of the current defintion of work in Thailand

Is it worth chasing them ? Most likely not from a cost point of view, but just because they dont chase it doesnt make it legal either

Scott you are wasting your time. Some people just want to believe whatever they want. Just grumpy old people complaining. Must be the only thing they have in their lives.

[rwdrwdrwd]

To be honest, I'll start caring if I see someone get prosecuted, and not before. So far as I am aware working illegally results in deportation not blacklisting, so it's not a huge risk for someone who wishes to stay long term in Thailand anyway. They could just come back and restructure their arrangements.

Right now, whether earning income online without a work permit is legal or not is honestly the last of my worries. Slightly behind whether or not the tenderloin my wife picks up from the market is tender or not.

Speaks volumes that the people who actually seem to care are neither the authorities, nor 'digital nomads' themselves.

Edited August 16, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[FritsSikkink]

You will recall a thread on TV regarding prohibited occupations in Thailand some days ago....who issued that list with all the messed up English ? The Ministry of Labour not immigration so this shows whose remit this question falls under

And nowhere on that list of prohibited occupations was people with internet blogs, that are nothing to do with Thailand, being paid in USD on Paypal, then wiring it to Kasikorn to spend in Thailand.

Because that would be totally insane.

it isn't prohibited, you only need a work permit and pay tax

[FritsSikkink]

To be honest, I'll start caring if I see someone get prosecuted, and not before. So far as I am aware working illegally results in deportation not blacklisting, so it's not a huge risk for someone who wishes to stay long term in Thailand anyway. They could just come back and restructure their arrangements.

Right now, whether earning income online without a work permit is legal or not is honestly the last of my worries. Slightly behind whether or not the tenderloin my wife picks up from the market is tender or not.

Speaks volumes that the people who actually seem to care are neither the authorities, nor 'digital nomads' themselves.

nice to hear you finally own up doing illegal stuff.

hope for you get away with it for a long time

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[jspill]

it isn't prohibited, you only need a work permit and pay tax

No work permit for online bloggers exists.