17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[micmichd]

That's immigration rules for UK, not for Thailand.

[jhwest]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

[Echo Tango]

Hmmm....so, if I trade stocks online (NYSE), and have the money sent to my Thai bank account, Am I earning money illegally?

[philw]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

Nice bit of "use of English" is that, as they might say in L'pool.

Are you a Polish physics teacher ??

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Yes I think it does matter. It is one thing having a one on one arrangement outside of Thailand working from home and quite another for a business to employ numbers of people for a fully fledged business trying to avoid the laws

I don't think it does, if your working at home, without a Thai entity or WP its the same thing as what has happened in this case, and you are trying to avoid the laws

even you,yourself called it working from home, and if one is working in Thailand, one requires a WP....so there we go you have called it "work " yourself

You can rationalise things anyway you want, but at the end of the day, all that has happened with this case is almost guarantee further clamp downs on people, so my advice make sure your affairs are above board

Except in the instance your relating to it's not possible to get a WP for self employed work were the salary or payment for services is paid outside of Thailand.

Example : a magazine article editor, whose sole job is reading and rectifying copy.

Or in the example of the op : a language teacher using the internet as a media for students outside Thailand.

Both cases presume no interaction with Thai customers or payment within Thailand .. you cannot get a WP for this, so do you presume that therefore it isn't classified as work in the context of a Thai work permit!

Yes you could, you could form a Thai company which invoices the companies outside Thailand and get a WP that way, there is nothing in the business laws or WP rules which say to get a WP business must be conducted only in Thailand or only with Thai customers, that assertion is just plain silly on your part

Its not a question of cant get a WP, its more of a case of most people can't be arsed or dont to spend the money to get legal, that is fact

Further I know a guy personally who operates a company from Thailand, is fully legal and only deals with overseas customers, he has no Thai customers, so your premise and comments are inaccurate, the difference is he could be arsed to set it up correctly

Further please let's get away from this concept of self employment shall we

I suspect the vast majority of people who claim to be self employed are invoicing through shelf companies they own in places like HK to offset individual tax liabilities in countries they are doing business in working as "self employed"

certainly in places like the UK companies will not deal with so called " self employed" people unless they are invoicing through a Ltd company, as it opens up all kinds of tax liability issues for said company if they are not taking income tax and NI off so called "self employed "

Therefore if they can set up a company in one country, why will they not do it in Thailand a get legal ?

Again a poster rather than seeing that there is in fact a gap in the WP process for independent self employed people they state what is already known.

We know you can set up a company. We know you can employ 4 Thais for each foreign WP. But that still doesn't address those situations that I cited. The small scale work were it just isn't a viable option to set up a company etc etc etc.

But ok then!

I don't see any gap in WP system, simply because if there was such provision in the form you suggest, it would be another vehicle for long term visa abuse in Thailand as some nob gets off the banana boat proclaims he/she is self employed and demands a long term visa,

I believe immigration/DOL actually have the right balance, its not a difficult system, but not that easy for chancers either

blah, blah, blah.... I said it before.... you get your pension from UK? You are checking your investments on your laptop? Sorry, get a WP. You are working.

[mca]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

I can see why you must get the big bucks mate...

[Brit_Doggie]

Just a small drop in the ocean to start, now go look for the other 1000's of illegals.

[micmichd]

Yes I think it does matter. It is one thing having a one on one arrangement outside of Thailand working from home and quite another for a business to employ numbers of people for a fully fledged business trying to avoid the laws

I don't think it does, if your working at home, without a Thai entity or WP its the same thing as what has happened in this case, and you are trying to avoid the laws

even you,yourself called it working from home, and if one is working in Thailand, one requires a WP....so there we go you have called it "work " yourself

You can rationalise things anyway you want, but at the end of the day, all that has happened with this case is almost guarantee further clamp downs on people, so my advice make sure your affairs are above board

Except in the instance your relating to it's not possible to get a WP for self employed work were the salary or payment for services is paid outside of Thailand.

Example : a magazine article editor, whose sole job is reading and rectifying copy.

Or in the example of the op : a language teacher using the internet as a media for students outside Thailand.

Both cases presume no interaction with Thai customers or payment within Thailand .. you cannot get a WP for this, so do you presume that therefore it isn't classified as work in the context of a Thai work permit!

Yes you could, you could form a Thai company which invoices the companies outside Thailand and get a WP that way, there is nothing in the business laws or WP rules which say to get a WP business must be conducted only in Thailand or only with Thai customers, that assertion is just plain silly on your part

Its not a question of cant get a WP, its more of a case of most people can't be arsed or dont to spend the money to get legal, that is fact

Further I know a guy personally who operates a company from Thailand, is fully legal and only deals with overseas customers, he has no Thai customers, so your premise and comments are inaccurate, the difference is he could be arsed to set it up correctly

Further please let's get away from this concept of self employment shall we

I suspect the vast majority of people who claim to be self employed are invoicing through shelf companies they own in places like HK to offset individual tax liabilities in countries they are doing business in working as "self employed"

certainly in places like the UK companies will not deal with so called " self employed" people unless they are invoicing through a Ltd company, as it opens up all kinds of tax liability issues for said company if they are not taking income tax and NI off so called "self employed "

Therefore if they can set up a company in one country, why will they not do it in Thailand a get legal ?

Again a poster rather than seeing that there is in fact a gap in the WP process for independent self employed people they state what is already known.

We know you can set up a company. We know you can employ 4 Thais for each foreign WP. But that still doesn't address those situations that I cited. The small scale work were it just isn't a viable option to set up a company etc etc etc.

But ok then!

I don't see any gap in WP system, simply because if there was such provision in the form you suggest, it would be another vehicle for long term visa abuse in Thailand as some nob gets off the banana boat proclaims he/she is self employed and demands a long term visa,

I believe immigration/DOL actually have the right balance, its not a difficult system, but not that easy for chancers either

blah, blah, blah.... I said it before.... you get your pension from UK? You are checking your investments on your laptop? Sorry, get a WP. You are working.

Use https for online banking, and VPN for online working.

[Godfree2]

This case was never about work permits. This was a case of a company failing to pay a bribe. If they would have registered and paid their "taxes" to the Chiangmai police, there would have been no raid.

As far as WPs go, if you're going to show up to a 9-5 teaching English, you will need one. Nevertheless, many English schools (even legitimate ones) are asking potential employees to work for weeks while waiting for their WPs to process. So, even if you want to do the right thing, you are being asked to break the law for a considerable period of time as a sort of "probationary period."

On the other hand, the nomads up in Chiangmai do not need WPs. There is not only no reason to get a WP for strictly online work, there is no way to do it. How would an affiliate marketer register his business and apply for his own WP in Thailand?

What are they gonna do, raid Starbucks? 55555 Lolololzlzlzlz

[DrTuner]

I reckon we're going to have our first digital nomad precedent soon and be able to crack that old nut.

[Godfree2]

I am all for cracking the digital nomad nut but it will never happen.

It's kind of like when conservatives say they will deport the 15+ million illegal living in the US. It's all rhetoric. There just simply aren't enough trains.

RTP doesn't have the resources to go from coffee shop to coffee shop and ask every foreigner if they are secretly developing an iPhone app for profit while visiting Thailand.

[DrTuner]

RTP doesn't have the resources to go from coffee shop to coffee shop and ask every foreigner if they are secretly developing an iPhone app for profit while visiting Thailand.

All they need to do is go to freelancer.com or some such website and hire a farang working out of Thailand. Ooops.

[rwdrwdrwd]

I reckon we're going to have our first digital nomad precedent soon and be able to crack that old nut.

Some might say we already had that, when Punspace (a coworking space) was raided, and the 15 people who were arrested in the raid were released without charge once it was determined they did not work for Punspace.

Plenty of evidence there if they were a target, and some of the individuals arrested have hardly kept quiet about what they do from Thailand since.

There's no real practical benefit to hunting down individuals that earn money from outside of Thailand and then spend it in Thailand. The only result of preventing them from staying in Thailand is a net financial loss, when they just go somewhere else.

[SoilSpoil]

I reckon we're going to have our first digital nomad precedent soon and be able to crack that old nut.

Not in the first 20 years. Most digital nomads have accounts abroad and have no income in Thailand. So nothing illegal.

The most interesting challenge is the fact whether a work permit is needed or tax must be paid in the country where the monies come in.

I believe that you do this through US banks you do, but EU banks not.

[Thian]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

RTP doesn't have the resources to go from coffee shop to coffee shop and ask every foreigner if they are secretly developing an iPhone app for profit while visiting Thailand.

All they need to do is go to freelancer.com or some such website and hire a farang working out of Thailand. Ooops.

And what if that "english scool" was registered in the UK and paid tax there. Then were they still not allowed to teach online english to a chinese from out of Chiang mai?

Same with online stocktrading, if the account is registered in the UK/EU/USA then is it illegal to trade stocks online from out of Thailand?

Or having a travelagency back in the EU and booking trips for travellers while you are in Thailand, is that illegal as well?

[stevenl]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

RTP doesn't have the resources to go from coffee shop to coffee shop and ask every foreigner if they are secretly developing an iPhone app for profit while visiting Thailand.

All they need to do is go to freelancer.com or some such website and hire a farang working out of Thailand. Ooops.

And what if that "english scool" was registered in the UK and paid tax there. Then were they still not allowed to teach online english to a chinese from out of Chiang mai?

Same with online stocktrading, if the account is registered in the UK/EU/USA then is it illegal to trade stocks online from out of Thailand?

Or having a travelagency back in the EU and booking trips for travellers while you are in Thailand, is that illegal as well?

Yes, all three illegal.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Debatable. Also overly debated here, and no true conclusion is possible. Depends entirely upon whether a judge on the day considers it to be 'working in Thailand'.

If simply trading stocks without a WP is illegal, rather a lot of people, perhaps the majority of retirees for example, are breaking the law.

I doubt a judge would see it this way, in the unlikely event anyone ended up in front of one for doing so.

[Godfree2]

No, they are not illegal.

[lemonjelly]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

<< Believe you me I have taught proper English... >>.... Yes, I'm sure you have........

[slipperylobster]

You mean I cannot pretend to be a girl and have some man from holland send me money?

ouch.

[ratcatcher]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

"Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American,.....'

You ought to have received more critical comments re the above statement.

Most people accept that the definition of a native speaker, of whatever language, is a person who has spoken that language since birth.

How you can say an American, or for that matter, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc are not native speakers is bizarre, to say the least.

Their English may, in some cases, be heavily accented, that is another matter, after all, many English people are barely understandable to others when they have a strong regional accent or dialect. A Filipino e.g may well speak a more presentable and understandable English than a person from Devon or Cornwall for example.

[ttthailand]

I wait for the day they come and ask for my work permit for teaching my darling English ..... " darling, sorry but I can not teach you English as it is not ok to do so .... You have to pay some Philippino to do" ....

[Beetlejuice]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

You are completely wrong on all accounts.

I dare say that these people were charging for their services and being unregistered could mean that they are also non qualified for the job of teaching and probably not following the prescribed curriculum procedures to meet the official educational standards as required.

Also having non registered foreign teachers at schools or for private tuitions, places children at risk from paedophiles and below standard teaching.

The imposed laws requiring work permits for foreigners working or employed in Thailand are set for the purposes of ensuring that foreign workers are fit and qualified for the jobs they undertake.

This is good news, and another load of illegals put out of action.

[ratcatcher]

I wait for the day they come and ask for my work permit for teaching my darling English ..... " darling, sorry but I can not teach you English as it is not ok to do so .... You have to pay some Philippino to do" ....

You will have a very long wait..........................darling.

[Happy Grumpy]

I wait for the day they come and ask for my work permit for teaching my darling English ..... " darling, sorry but I can not teach you English as it is not ok to do so .... You have to pay some Philippino to do" ....

Filipino.

[jspill]

You are completely wrong on all accounts.

I dare say that these people were charging for their services and being unregistered could mean that they are also non qualified for the job of teaching and probably not following the prescribed curriculum procedures to meet the official educational standards as required.

Also having non registered foreign teachers at schools or for private tuitions, places children at risk from paedophiles and below standard teaching.

The imposed laws requiring work permits for foreigners working or employed in Thailand are set for the purposes of ensuring that foreign workers are fit and qualified for the jobs they undertake.

This is good news, and another load of illegals put out of action.

Skype teaching is an informal chat, no qualifications are required. For the children it's an extra in addition to their prescribed curriculum, done after regular classes. Often voluntarily.

It's a relaxed way for the brighter kids to gain confidence talking to an actual westerner after school, no educational standards or exams need come into the picture whatsoever. Their parents pay for it purely as supplementary learning to help the kids when they're back on the prescribed curriculum off Skype and back in the classroom.

As for paedophilia, the children are thousands of miles away in a different country... and the Skype video calls would be recorded.

[JAG]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

"Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American,.....'

You ought to have received more critical comments re the above statement.

Most people accept that the definition of a native speaker, of whatever language, is a person who has spoken that language since birth.

How you can say an American, or for that matter, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc are not native speakers is bizarre, to say the least.

Their English may, in some cases, be heavily accented, that is another matter, after all, many English people are barely understandable to others when they have a strong regional accent or dialect. A Filipino e.g may well speak a more presentable and understandable English than a person from Devon or Cornwall for example.

Arrh, but oi 'spect eeh carnt droive a tractor youme!

Actually, coming from Somerset, I have to say most natives of Devon and Cornwall can speak quite presentable English, as long as you don't introduce long words like marmalade and wheelbarrow into the conversation. (lol)!

Bristolians however, now that is a totally different matter!

Returning reluctantly to the topic, I wonder if Mr West has failed to get a job teaching here?

[willyumiii]

Here we go again..

Only Brits are native English speakers.

They invented the language.

They own the language.

It's just a shame that most people can not understand the language the way the Brits speak it.

and, oh yes, the Brits are a pretty small percentage of the people on the planet who do speak English....

GOD SAVE THE BRITiSH !

Maybe it is time to change the name of the language and put a stop to these foolish claims??

lol

[lostinisaan]

Excuse me and I totally respect the laws and customs of Thailand, ofcourse I do.

However, with total repect and yes there many foreigners who are teaching without the necessary experience and qualifications.

What is absolutely forgotten is that Thai Teachers trying to teach Thai Students English and yes they may have degrees lol.

I ask you and often the so called qualified teachers lol, think they know how to teach English.

Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American, yet they have the teaching positions.

It does not help one little bit, that it the aim of every single Institution in that everyone passes no matter what.

Believe you me I have taught proper English and the teachers who have still positions getting salary for goodness know what.

They think they know it all and unfortuanately they do not know even a little bit, but think that they do.

Between lol the so called Director and so called Head of Foreign Languages andreally laughing out loud, they are totally useless, yet the so called Director lo goes along with it.

An absolute disgrace and the so called Director and lo theso called Head of Languages, youru really having a laugh, both pateetic, yet still comand a huge salary, for what exactly. Yes absollutely NOTHING AT ALL A DISGRACE

Sincerely

J West

"Total and absolute crap and yes a native speaker is English, not Phillipino or American,.....'

You ought to have received more critical comments re the above statement.

Most people accept that the definition of a native speaker, of whatever language, is a person who has spoken that language since birth.

How you can say an American, or for that matter, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc are not native speakers is bizarre, to say the least.

Their English may, in some cases, be heavily accented, that is another matter, after all, many English people are barely understandable to others when they have a strong regional accent or dialect. A Filipino e.g may well speak a more presentable and understandable English than a person from Devon or Cornwall for example.

Arrh, but oi 'spect eeh carnt droive a tractor youme!

Actually, coming from Somerset, I have to say most natives of Devon and Cornwall can speak quite presentable English, as long as you don't introduce long words like marmalade and wheelbarrow into the conversation. (lol)!

Bristolians however, now that is a totally different matter!

Returning reluctantly to the topic, I wonder if Mr West has failed to get a job teaching here?

Seems that Mr. West's cover letter didn't make it to an interview. Unfortuanately, a very pateetic comand in English.

[JAG]

Here we go again..

Only Brits are native English speakers.

They invented the language.

They own the language.

It's just a shame that most people can not understand the language the way the Brits speak it.

and, oh yes, the Brits are a pretty small percentage of the people on the planet who do speak English....

GOD SAVE THE BRITiSH !

Maybe it is time to change the name of the language and put a stop to these foolish claims??

lol

Well I'm English, and horror of horrors, I teach the language. I would be the first to agree that Americans, Australians, Kiwis, and Canadians amongst others are native speakers. I know Philippinos, Indians and Dutchmen who speak (and teach) excellent English. I know Englishmen (and others) who butcher the language. Speaking it well enough to teach it is not dependant on birth, as some contributors to this forum have demonstrated.

No we don't own the language, and certainly as a living language it will develop differently in different parts of the world. We did invent it, so give us the credit for that. Many of us are delighted that so many other nations have adopted it.

As for God, well as he is almost certainly an Englishman, no doubt he will save us!