Thai Airways faces uphill task to revive its fortunes

[Searat7]

I bought ticket on Thai to fly to Auckland in late February, returning to BKK ifrom Sydney in early March.....ticket is now $1,000 more than I paid . Thai does not get much advantage from low oil prices because they increased hedging from 53% to 63% late last year. I chose Thai because they offer non-stop flights. Nothing will change until they let a guy like Tony Fernandes take over the airline with unlimited power and no interference from the government.

[IAMHERE]

Has anyone actually ever flown on this airline? Prices are through the roof. Is this the Thai way where if you're losing money you raise prices?

I wouldn't fly it anyway because ghosts cause it to skid off runways.

Several years ago I flew Thai from LAX straight to BKK, economy. After everyone was onboard the attendants asked each and every Thai if they wanted a seat with nobody next to them All up and down the 2 seats next to the window had 1 Thai and an empty seat next to them. Not all, because some had a male/female farang.

The Thai attendants didn't ask one falang (that I saw) if they'd like to change their seats so nobody was next to them. NEVER AGAIN, I didn't realize back then how racist they are.

Yes, I paid 'extra' to take that flight because it was one of the longest in-air routes there was. I wanted that experience. Still glad I flew that 15 hours or so in the air, but they won't get my money any more, I'd rather have old fat attendants crop dusting me than fly Thai.

[trainman34014]

Any competent business boss knows that if he wants to save money and streamline his operation fast then the first priority is heads have to roll quickly. But here we have 'the man' saying losing staff is not a big priority and they can save themselves by 'cost cutting' in other area's and by selling assets. It's the usual cowardly way Thai's work when they are faced with the possibility of having to cut out all the 'connected' people on the payroll and causing loss of face in numerous High So families who have several family members working for the company.

Everyone else on Earth knows you cannot run a profitable business in Civil Aviation the way the Thai's go about it...but hey....this is Planet Thailand and nobody 'Unerstan Thainess' !

[Gentmartin]

I feel the the Military Lawyers are on the right track with Thai Air. These moves are just the beginning. As I expect the boys in brown to be around 3 or 4 years they have a good opportunity to clean house. Pricing is a major issue and am sure they understand this.

For domestic flights if you look at the colorful printed boxes they cost more than the food does. The food super sucks! Just a small sandwich in a foam box or paper plate would be better.

The AB 4 engine planes seat about 192 people on a flight to LA. The former head of Thai said that these planes loose money when they take off even though they might be full. They have 6 of these planes and they need to sell them quickly.

Reduce the domestic flights and let the low cost people keep them. Thai can regain it's former position by specializing on international flights.

Are you sure about the seating capacity?..... the A340-600 in the 3 class configuration on Thai metal seats 267.

Correct, they still fly six A340-600s in 3 class configuration of 267 seats. Fabulous aircraft but way too thirsty in this day and age, but due for replacement over the next 3 years.

They also have four A340-500s in storage for about 3 years now. They were trying to sell them and had a few offers but refused them as they were considered too small. So as usual, insytead of dropping the price and getting shot of them, they held out and continue to pay staorage, as their value decreases and decreases......as i recall, at the time, the decision about the price and not to sell was actually made by a parliamentary committee as opposed to the airline itself........this is what happens when MPs try to run businesses.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Gentmartin

[stoffel45]

Oh Dear....in a fit of Christmas Spirit, I gave two tickets with THAI - non-stop - Brussels to BKK return for travel in July - return August.

The beneficiaries used to use Etihad - which used to be very good value - until they upped their prices and downed their frequent flyer rewards.

So, THAI was cheaper and non-stop.

Reading editorial and comments here on TVF - now I wonder if the flight will be cancelled or find THAI in the bankrupt section.

[martin81]

I have flown Thai multiple times the last few years domestic, short haul and long haul. The planes have almost always been nearly full and the prices not cheap.

I don't understand how they can lose money with low Asian wages.

And the service on short haul has gone down hill without reduction in price. Even for a so called free ROP ticket to Manila return I have to pay around 4000 B for fuel surcharge.

Edited January 30, 2015 by martin81

[marcusd]

I have dropped down to Silver level now - I am flying budget airlines everywhere all over Asia and only use Thai for long haul to the UK and Melbourne (where strangely enough the budget long hauliers are not particularly well priced) - I dont care about the lounge use - the food and drink is pretty awful in Thai lounges, so prefer to spend on a real coffee and food in the main shopping areas of Suvarnabumi - I will miss the generous excess baggage, but can buy the same allowance and still be quids in on Air Asia or Jetstar.

I booked a ticket to Melbourne last July and had an Award for upgrade or 50% off freebie I wanted to use - flying date January - could i get any upgrade or freebie granted? No - not one seat came up in 6 months - that is just appalling - and now that they have dropped me to Silver i expect i have lost the Award completely.

another thing that happens only in Thai, and that is about one hour after take off the Entertainment system shuts down and you have to reselect you movie - happens almost every time for the last couple of years at least. - why?

They are very stingy with the wine as well - usually not serving it until well after the meal has been served and then locking it away as quickly as possible - I am not a heavy drinker on flights but i do like at least two glasses 'with' my meal, not after it!.

Food can be okay, but often not -so it is hit and miss - but the big drop in service that i have noticed is in Business class - I used to fly it regularly when i was a salaried sales rep - but now work for myself and only use business when i use airmiles (they rarely ever upgrade for free - even when they have space up front) - the food is really basic - not a patch on SQ and other airlines, which can be luxury - in Thai Business the meals are boring and basic to say the least () the cheese platter a slice of bland something, a plastic wrapped Cracker Barrel and a Baby Bell - plastic wrapped crackers and three or four sour pip filled grapes - a very sad decline in standards - it did not used to be like that.

Someone on this thread mentioned the incomprehensible English - quite true - i dont know where they learned it but their reading and pronunciation is simply appalling

Happier to fly Budget any day now and i will not be using them for long haul now that i have been dropped to Silver - bye bye Thai!!!

Anyone else recognized my experience?

agree 199%

[Jeremy50]

EVA beat them on price comprehensively on every route - I don't know how Thai air get any customers at all !

EVA is a good airline. Those Taiwanese girls are just stunning too, and none over 25.

[Xircal]

As all the above posters point out poor service,high prices and two many freebies for well connected families.

On their domestic routes they need to ditch those boxed meals on the one hour trips.

The problem is how do you tell a Thai they are doing it wrong?

Yes, very much to the point especially with the well connected families issue.

I'm reminded of an article I read a while back, in 2009 in fact about the directors and their families being given 15 first class tickets every year for both international as well as domestic routes.

It's hardly surprising that they're still in the financial trouble with those kind of policies.

[Prbkk]

I see they are cutting one flight from Heathrow, and making it a one a day A380 from July. Thai have been too expensive with poor aircraft on this route compared with Eva, Ba and the middle east carriers,

Yes, Heathrow once a day, same for Frankfurt ( was 2 will be 1), Moscow dropped completely, Melbourne back to A200 instead of the 300ER, looks like big cuts coming. But increase service to Lahore, the FAs will be thrilled by these changes

[Fatty123]

Once flew Thai from Bangers to Chiang Mai. It was at Songkran and although one expects to pay more at that time of year, I didn't think it would cost almost as much as my ticket to the UK with a different airline.

Thai airways are too pricey. That's their problem.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Fatty123

[samran]

Look, all the problems are real, but when you are 6 foot or taller like me, their economy seats are the best around in terms of leg room.

[shaurene]

I have said this before but will say it again.

1: The government should keep their noses out.

2: They should advertise for a top rank foreign CEO and he must have a free hand.

3: Stop all the Free Bees to government departments, if they are traveling privately they must pay, and if on government business the Thai government should pay, no other airlines give this free service, stupid.

4: sort their over pricing international prices out, they have to be competertive with the other airlines, they are dearer than, BA, Singapore, Emirats, air France, Klm, Qantas and all of them.

5: to many older flight attendants, you ask about and for things in flight and they think they are above all the passengers. Many years back I used to fly with them from New Zealand to Asian countries on business 3-4 times a year in Business and held a gold card I stopped a few years back because their service dropped and prices where getting expensive. And they use their old beaten up 777's the seats are like wooden under your bum.

I fly with Quantas to and from New Zealand to Thailand 3 times a yr and Qantas are over 20,000bt cheaper and far more newer comfortable planes.

For Thai the end is coming.

[moojar]

I am a Royal Orchid Plus member of Thai Airways, but have not flown with them for some 4 years since their prices went up, their travel miles dropped back to 3 months or pay extra for a year travel miles, their food and service went down and the plane itself was not cleaned, bloody disgusting and I told them so as well.

I then started flying Emirates and Qantas over the last 4 yrs and went with the cheapest direct flight from Sydney to Suvarnabhumi return. Pay a bit more for the direct flights and I also have to book at set dates, which sometimes is not the cheapest. But the food, drinks, service, entertainment and baggage allowance is worth the bit extra. Honestly, have never had a drama with either.

Then it happened, I then saw a cheap flight with Air Asia Syd to Bangkok via KL. The plane was really not very clean, it had no entertainment, if you wanted entertainment; you got a small screen and plugged it in all for a price, meals for a price, drinks and even a blanket for a price, baggage for a price, and it went on. In the end it would have worked out about the same price as Qanta. And if you don’t know what the current going rate is for Ringgit they get to you on the conversion. Then you swap planes at KL and hang around for a couple of hours. After boarding for the rest of the journey, they must have moved the seats closer to fit more passengers in as I am 6’1” and the guy beside me was 6’4” I had trouble getting in and stretching my legs under the seat in front to stop cramping, he had hid no chance and had his legs out in the passage. Could not wait to land in Bangkok. As I had already booked return flight with them had the same problem on the return journey, with the problem of almost missing the connecting flight because of a hold up at customs and just made the flight.

So all in all, I will now be travelling with Qantas or Emirates once again will have to pay the extra but will be more comfortable. Unless someone on TVF has a better idea, let me know.

Scoot is not a bad option on the way south - they have a good connection in SIN. They have seats with extra leg room you can upgrade to, so you can get a seat the same width and pitch as in Emirates 777 economy. I sit up the back in the doubles.

The Scoot connection on the way north is a joke though - 22 hours on the ground. I switch to a different airline at that point. But they have new planes - 787s - coming online this year, so hopefully that connection will improve.

If you book during one of Scoot's frequent sales it is worthwhile, otherwise go on a full-service airline. Sign up to their email newsletter to hear about the sales.

Or else Singapore and Malaysian are options - their connections are usually good and so is the comfort - both are better than Qantas and Emirates comfort-wise.

I hear Air Asia X is in a bit of financial trouble, and they are reducing services to Australia. So we can expect the full-service airline fares to creep up.

[lujanit]

I flew SYD BKK direct 2 months ago. The real surprise was that SQ was $300 cheaper than Qantas, Thai and to my complete surprise Jetstar. Actually Jetstar, after all the add ons were very expensive. In my experience SQ is one of the best airlines in the world.

Thai is now just rubbish. I flew BKK SYD business class a few years ago and never again. Lousy service, dirty plane. I wish Bangkok Airways would get permission to fly more international routes. BKK SIN would really shake things up.

[Prbkk]

I see they are cutting one flight from Heathrow, and making it a one a day A380 from July. Thai have been too expensive with poor aircraft on this route compared with Eva, Ba and the middle east carriers,

Yes, Heathrow once a day, same for Frankfurt ( was 2 will be 1), Moscow dropped completely, Melbourne back to A200 instead of the 300ER, looks like big cuts coming. But increase service to Lahore, the FAs will be thrilled by these changes

Now Madrid cancelled from September. Reality seems to be dawning.

[Thai at Heart]

The Airbus 340-500 was a non stop flight from BKK to Los Angles. I looked at the seating arrangement. They had to reduce the load factor so more fuel could be added for the 17 hour flight.

I would guess that corruption and nepotism probably represents at least 10% of the loss factor for Thai. If they were to dig into these aspects they would find a long chain of everything you can imagine that goes back for ever. Trying to break this kind of BS will take a long time. You are trying to change the hearts and minds of people who thrive on something free or dishonest.

At least the boys in brown can reduce it to only cover themselves. For the victors belongs the spoils.

The ultimate was when it was reported in 99 that Lufthansa had been invited to look at Thai as an investment

Hidden on the back page of the business section of the Bangkok post was a review of what they found. The clincher was a previous board member from about 10 years previously who had used a Thai airways corporate amex to pay for his daughters wedding at the Oriental.

It was at least back then a massive gravy train, so I have little or no sympathy at all for the mess they find themselves in today.

[Don Aleman]

" Uphill ".? Is Mt. Everest a hill ? The only 2 possible routes to avoid bankruptcy are :

1). Sell the airline or

2). Hire responsible/educated/proven/experienced foreign airline experts but,

Obstinate Thailand, will not do either and, probably, keep pouring Thai tax payers money into

yet another of the 57 " State" owned businesses, all of which are failing as well.

[MiclB]

I booked award mileage tickets with United for next week. They booked us BKK-NRT on Thai. Had lots of trouble getting someone to assign seating, which can only be selected once for whatever reason. We have annual United Club lounge memberships and with the Star alliance should have access in BKK. NO; cant get anyone to explain why. The last time we flew with them the onboard service was poor-minus, aside from their trying to drown us in wine. This business is run like a government executive's boondoggle.

[ginbkk]

The Airbus 340-500 was a non stop flight from BKK to Los Angles. I looked at the seating arrangement. They had to reduce the load factor so more fuel could be added for the 17 hour flight.

I would guess that corruption and nepotism probably represents at least 10% of the loss factor for Thai. If they were to dig into these aspects they would find a long chain of everything you can imagine that goes back for ever. Trying to break this kind of BS will take a long time. You are trying to change the hearts and minds of people who thrive on something free or dishonest.

At least the boys in brown can reduce it to only cover themselves. For the victors belongs the spoils.

The ultimate was when it was reported in 99 that Lufthansa had been invited to look at Thai as an investment

Hidden on the back page of the business section of the Bangkok post was a review of what they found. The clincher was a previous board member from about 10 years previously who had used a Thai airways corporate amex to pay for his daughters wedding at the Oriental.

It was at least back then a massive gravy train, so I have little or no sympathy at all for the mess they find themselves in today.

You have seen nothing yet. The benefits for management at THAI are just too generous, excluding corruption even.

For example, Baht 70k travel expense per month for some executives, or enormous ticket discounts for family members of management.

[tso310]

Thai are dead on the UK to BKK routes. They totally ignored the rise of the ME3 airlines with regard to the bulk of their passengers who were non Thai. They always took the attitude that there are plenty of Thais in the UK and they will only fly Thai. Well EVA has gone from strength to strength with Thais over the last 10 years. As far as us unimportant farangs are concerned well look at the rise of Emirates, who I do not like but use, and with Etihad and Qatar adding larger aircraft and more regional options, all with cheaper fares its bye bye Thai as far as the UK is concerned. With THY now entering the east - west making use of their extensive European regional connections things will only get worse.

[MiclB]

MiclB, on 05 Feb 2015 - 13:09, said:

I booked award mileage tickets with United for next week. They booked us BKK-NRT on Thai. Had lots of trouble getting someone to assign seating, which can only be selected once for whatever reason. We have annual United Club lounge memberships and with the Star alliance should have access in BKK. NO; cant get anyone to explain why. The last time we flew with them the onboard service was poor-minus, aside from their trying to drown us in wine. This business is run like a government executive's boondoggle.

Addendum: Took the flight. Clean facilities, marginal-minus looking female flt attendants (I swear it was a ladyboy),

nothing really good or bad to report. I did observe almost no falongs on the flight, BKK-NRT, probably primarily a pricing/value issue. There are much better airline services to choose from.

[Jay Sata]

The old flag carriers have had their day.

Just look at Qantas.

I last flew with them five years ago and never again.

The airline business has moved on and the traditional big players such as Thai have lost the plot.