Germany to Greece: Don't mess with us over debt, austerity

[h90]

"The new government has indicated that it is not interested in receiving the last 7.2 billion-euro loan installment from its European partners"

Guess what?

The EU isn't interested in lending that last loan installment since Greece has declared it will default on what was already loaned. Maybe Greece should have shut its mouth until AFTER the last installment, then used it to pay the debt service. That would have bought Greece another year of two. It's hard to stick it to the MAN when you're a punk.

well "lending" everyone always knew that they won't see the money coming back ever.

[12DrinkMore]

The EU needs to ditch a few of the basket cases and Greece is certainly one of them.

Well in that case why should they even be thinking about using such desperate measures to get Ukraine on board? That's a basket case if ever there was one

Because the Euro-despots can see their way to more power and money.

The Euro-project has turned into a pseudo-religion, you have to believe in it, abide by the rules and you will be rewarded sometime after you die.

If you don't comply, then they send in the modern equivalent of the Inquisition, where you are stretched on the rack and placed in the iron maiden, they then turn the screws until no more blood runs out.

[robblok]

To be honest if they default, all countries should do their best to ruin Greece. Making sure its utterly bankrupt and will never get any money. Maybe put a trade embargo and such. It will cost everyone but these arrogant Greeks need to be broken.

Of course also do they need to personally make the leaders in the European countries accountable for loaning all this money. Many knew it would be a problem but they still did it.

[Prbkk]

Imagine if we could change Governments on a promise to write off its debts ! You are toast if you believe that Greece!

True in this case but Argentina got away with it...TWICE...

[Prbkk]

To be honest if they default, all countries should do their best to ruin Greece. Making sure its utterly bankrupt and will never get any money. Maybe put a trade embargo and such. It will cost everyone but these arrogant Greeks need to be broken.

Of course also do they need to personally make the leaders in the European countries accountable for loaning all this money. Many knew it would be a problem but they still did it.

A huge part of the blame rests wit bloated Brussels...lousy oversight from the very start but quick to point the finger when it all goes horribly wrong. Clear out those high-on-the-hog officials as well.

[Lukecan]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

Tsiparas is not a good leader, he is all about talk, but when it comes to action he cant deliver Just a few weeks ago he said he was against tthe sanctions on Russia, yet 2 days ago they voted in favor of extending it for another 6 months.

[h90]

To be honest if they default, all countries should do their best to ruin Greece. Making sure its utterly bankrupt and will never get any money. Maybe put a trade embargo and such. It will cost everyone but these arrogant Greeks need to be broken.

Of course also do they need to personally make the leaders in the European countries accountable for loaning all this money. Many knew it would be a problem but they still did it.

Would you think the same if you were a Greek? Not getting any service at hospitals anymore, people dieing and being yourself pretty poor?

Because these are the people you'll hit.

You won't hit the big fishes who have billions on their bank accounts. And these billions won't be in Greek.

The EU knew the things before they let the Greek into the Euro.

The EU had rules to prevent situations like this. The EU broke their own laws.

Everyone with an IQ over 70 always knew that Greek won't be able to ever pay back the debts and obviously being even less willing to do so.

[Friendly Stranger]

Good for you Germany.

[rasmus5150]

Be careful. Greece might ban their only exports ouzo and feta cheese, who could live without them:-)

[robblok]

To be honest if they default, all countries should do their best to ruin Greece. Making sure its utterly bankrupt and will never get any money. Maybe put a trade embargo and such. It will cost everyone but these arrogant Greeks need to be broken.

Of course also do they need to personally make the leaders in the European countries accountable for loaning all this money. Many knew it would be a problem but they still did it.

Would you think the same if you were a Greek? Not getting any service at hospitals anymore, people dieing and being yourself pretty poor?

Because these are the people you'll hit.

You won't hit the big fishes who have billions on their bank accounts. And these billions won't be in Greek.

The EU knew the things before they let the Greek into the Euro.

The EU had rules to prevent situations like this. The EU broke their own laws.

Everyone with an IQ over 70 always knew that Greek won't be able to ever pay back the debts and obviously being even less willing to do so.

Mate.. they loaned. they have to pay .. its unfair for others to pay for them as they are the ones living large.

But at the same time get those idiots that kept them in the EU because heads must roll over this not only Greek heads.

[humqdpf]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

When you find yourself out on a limb that you're sawing off yourself it has to be someone else's fault, right?

The EU was doomed from the start. Roughly speaking, the farther North you go the harder working and more responsible people are. It's more than one different culture all trying to agree what cultural norms should be.

The only way that Tsipras can play tough is with his mouth. His pockets are turned inside out and Germany and others have had it with the culture.

The voters were in fact duped. Greece can't keep spending more than it takes in and It looks like it's reached the end of its rope.

PS The smartest thing the UK ever did was to keep the Pound.

In every country, you will hear arguments about the people of the North/South/East/West are harder working than those in the West/East/South/North. And there will be huge regional differences in wealth - SE England in the UK is far wealthier than any city in the north of Engliand. Milan and Southern Italy. Munich versus Ost Friesen. Need I go on. Does this mean that we should split up these countries too?

[Publicus]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

Tsiparas is not a good leader, he is all about talk, but when it comes to action he cant deliver Just a few weeks ago he said he was against tthe sanctions on Russia, yet 2 days ago they voted in favor of extending it for another 6 months.

It's Greek to the Russians only.

Tsipras' language versus his actions about Russia shows that Tsipras knows which side his bread is buttered on. Greece and the Greeks know they are with Europe and the EU or they go adrift into a nationalist dead end and a socio-economic wasteland.

Any historical remnants of orthodoxy the Greeks may have had with the Russians are nominal. Greece's real interests lie with the EU, Nato, the IMF....the West, not the East.

Tsipras knows he has to settle accounts with the EU and no one else. Russia is in no position to save Greece or itself either. And who would want to be saved by Russia.

The EU members well know they must beware of Greeks seeking loan forgiveness because right behind them are the Italians, the Cypriots, the Spanish, the Portuguese and, alas, the French.

I don't like that the Germans are so cold about it but I do like that this time the Germans are right.

Edited by Publicus to correct omitting Italy.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Publicus

[robblok]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

Tsiparas is not a good leader, he is all about talk, but when it comes to action he cant deliver Just a few weeks ago he said he was against tthe sanctions on Russia, yet 2 days ago they voted in favor of extending it for another 6 months.

It's Greek to the Russians only.

Tsiparas' language versus his actions about Russia shows that Tsiparas knows which side his bread is buttered on. Greece and the Greeks know they are with Europe and the EU or they go adrift into a nationalist dead end and a socio-economic wasteland.

Any historical remnants of orthodoxy the Greeks may have had with the Russians are nominal. Greece's real interests lie with the EU, Nato, the IMF....the West, not the East.

Tsiparas knows he has to settle accounts with the EU and no one else. Russia is in no position to save Greece or itself either. And who would want to be saved by Russia.

The EU members well know they must beware of Greeks seeking loan forgiveness because right behind them are the Italians, the Cypriots, the Spanish, the Portuguese and, alas, the French.

I don't like that the Germans are so cold about it but I do like that this time the Germans are right.

Edited by Publicus to correct omitting Italy.

Every country in Europe has its own debts, if we start paying others debts its crazy. We wanted to help the Greeks and of course ourselves. We should have let them default and taken the hit back then.

Now the Euro is low because of the Greeks and of course that Italian Draggi. I for one would love it if Europe broke up.. a bit of pain now but later my Dutch currency would go up again. I am getting tired that deadbeat countries like Greece and other Southerners drain the resources of the North.

[MZurf]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

Seriously? Greece has lived way beyond its means for decades and when it's time too pay the bill you blame the guys you owe money??

If that kind of attitude is prevalent in Greece then things do not look rosy for you. So sorry, but your economical basket case of a country should never have been allowed into the EU.

BTW, where is Costas when Greece is discussed on TV? Open any other thread on the forum and he is there like an incessantly buzzing fly.

[shaurene]

Well if Greece does this Europe. Will place sanctions on Greece, no exports to Greece and no imports from Greece and possibly kick them out of the EEC. Then they a doomed.

[robblok]

Well if Greece does this Europe. Will place sanctions on Greece, no exports to Greece and no imports from Greece and possibly kick them out of the EEC. Then they a doomed.

I certainly hope so, they should be punished for biting the hand that feeds them. Why should people from other countries pay the Greek debt.

[MobileContent]

Most of those 200+ billions Greece didn't actually received but it was banks that got bailed out that had high risk investments including toxic papers in the Greek markets.

[MrWorldwide]

There's the debt incurred by the Greek government and then there's the Greeks who lost their jobs because their government was basically incompetent and corrupt - blaming the latter for the actions of the former seems a bit rough for mine. 30 billion Euro a year in unpaid taxes, mainly courtesy of bogus write-offs by the rich, and the Greek government is telling Germany they cant possibly pay back the money ? Whatever the man in the street did to bring this on themselves, surely they deserve some respite from an economy that no-one wants to invest in ? Get them back on the rails then call in the debt - I know the Eurozone got burnt by the previous government when they tried to give them some leeway, but the people who have to feed families on little or no income look completely screwed by forces well beyond their control.

[Publicus]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

While the EU elites have blame in this, Tsipras is raging against the wrong machine.

The vast majority of Greeks need to change their attitudes and come back down to Earth to do common ordinary things vital to any society such as pay taxes, work for a living, make wine and cheese too instead of only expecting it to always be there when they want it.

Greece has been hit between the eyes by the 2x4 we might call Thatcher's Law, i.e., this is what happens when you finally run out of other people's money. Other people start demanding that you start to pay it back. Pay it back in full. Which means Greeks have to recognize responsibility and accountability.

In the United States, $15,900 total annual income for two means you live in poverty. Yet as the NYT reports about Greece....

“There are many people with a house, with a cottage in the country, with two cars and maybe a small boat who claim they are earning 12,000 euros a year,” Mr. Plaskovitis said, which is about $15,900. “You cannot heat this house or buy the gas for the car with that kind of income.

Many Greeks say tax collectors have a reputation for being among the easiest officials to bribe. Some say tax troubles are usually solved in a three way split: You pay a third of what you owe to the government, a third to the collector and a third remains in your pocket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Thailand on the Aegean.

[Baerboxer]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

He is trying to take their country back, as you put it, by theft. Borrow money and then simply refuse to pay it back and abide by the agreements made to obtain the loan.

If he doesn't like the conditions of the loan, fine. Give all the money back and cancel the agreement. Refusing to pay it back and abide by agreements is aggressive criminality and should be treated as such. Maybe this Greek government think they can act like Argentina and simply refuse to honor agreements, cancel debt whenever, and then get the begging bowl out again.

Greece wants to have the money, waste it how they see fit, and then receive more handouts. Time they learnt a harsh lesson. I don't see the EU, especially Germany backing down, and why should they?

Notice this guy is off the usual 'friendly" countries for a bit of support. He should be shown the door by them if he's asking for support in breaking agreements just because his government got elected by promising to act illegally and unethically.

[Baerboxer]

Looks like voters in greece have been duped, The debt will always be there no matter what your lying politicians tell you ,Greece needs to tighten their belts or go bankrupt.

I doubt that very much.

It is the EU and this bailout money that has got Greece into this mess in the first place. As a condition of the bailouts the Troica (EU/IMF/ECB) fly into Athens every month and tell Greece what it has to do..... Effectively, the EU has been running that country since the bailouts. It has dictated every economic policy for the past few years and sucked away Greece's national sovereignty and it has failed miserably.

Since these interferences, the economy have crashed by 25% and youth unemployment has increased to a consistent 50% +.

The Greeks have not been duped Tsipras is not a man to back down... I can assure you of that.

He is taking their country back and he will NOT be taking orders from the troica any more..... They have put Greece in this mess.

Tsiparas is not a good leader, he is all about talk, but when it comes to action he cant deliver Just a few weeks ago he said he was against tthe sanctions on Russia, yet 2 days ago they voted in favor of extending it for another 6 months.

It's Greek to the Russians only.

Tsipras' language versus his actions about Russia shows that Tsipras knows which side his bread is buttered on. Greece and the Greeks know they are with Europe and the EU or they go adrift into a nationalist dead end and a socio-economic wasteland.

Any historical remnants of orthodoxy the Greeks may have had with the Russians are nominal. Greece's real interests lie with the EU, Nato, the IMF....the West, not the East.

Tsipras knows he has to settle accounts with the EU and no one else. Russia is in no position to save Greece or itself either. And who would want to be saved by Russia.

The EU members well know they must beware of Greeks seeking loan forgiveness because right behind them are the Italians, the Cypriots, the Spanish, the Portuguese and, alas, the French.

I don't like that the Germans are so cold about it but I do like that this time the Germans are right.

Edited by Publicus to correct omitting Italy.

Exactly. Write off the Greek debts, allow the terms of the loan to be ignored and all the countries you name will come knocking to their slice. Note which countires are on the list for the Greeks to visit.

If push comes to shove, it may be time for Europeans to choose a EU without Greece. Otherwise it will be the industrious north financing the less industrious more corrupt south, with France having a foot in both camps as usual.

[Cletus]

Austerity is killing Europe.

[kingalfred]

Austerity is killing Europe.

No,a political and economic union is killing the EU! Edited February 3, 2015 by kingalfred

[Credo]

Austerity is killing Europe.

No,a political and economic union is killing the EU!

The EU is a political and economic Union.

[monkeycountry]

I recall many of my countrymen saying back then when they were very much against bailing Greece out, that Greece would run from its obligations once it got the money - such is their mentality, which is also partly why they are in this situation in the first place. And now look what happened, almost on the day they get the rest of the money, they get a new government and decide that they do not want to pay their debt.

The EU might as well have lent the money to a bargirl from soi 6.

[Paulc01]

I recall many of my countrymen saying back then when they were very much against bailing Greece out, that Greece would run from its obligations once it got the money - such is their mentality, which is also partly why they are in this situation in the first place. And now look what happened, almost on the day they get the rest of the money, they get a new government and decide that they do not want to pay their debt.

The EU might as well have lent the money to a bargirl from soi 6.

Shameless Greeks believe they are entitled to a lifestyle they cannot afford. Why should a country that produces virtually nothing that anybody else wants feel that it deserves a first world lifestyle?

[rgs2001uk]

I recall many of my countrymen saying back then when they were very much against bailing Greece out, that Greece would run from its obligations once it got the money - such is their mentality, which is also partly why they are in this situation in the first place. And now look what happened, almost on the day they get the rest of the money, they get a new government and decide that they do not want to pay their debt.

The EU might as well have lent the money to a bargirl from soi 6.

Shameless Greeks believe they are entitled to a lifestyle they cannot afford. Why should a country that produces virtually nothing that anybody else wants feel that it deserves a first world lifestyle?

Let them eat cake.

Greece the European sister of Argentina, another basket case.