US envoys call off trip to Isaan

[wilcopops]

<quote> Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order.

That should convince the USA that Thailand is a free & democratic country... I remember when we were in Romania in the early 90's and groups of more than 4 were illegal and people actually had to have their curtains open in their homes! Who else prohibited free speech and freedom of it's citizens to say what they wanted to listen to what they wanted? Let me think..... Good job Thailand is a democracy (it must be, there's an 'elected' PM, right?)

Talking of curtains, did you know that at certain times Thai subjects are required to draw their 2nd floor curtains if they overlook the road?

[lovetotravel]

I would say that the US is fully aware that if and when any kind of real democracy returns , they won't be dealing with the people who are in office now.

I don't recall a big hoo ha from the Junta when Thaksin and Yingluck had a meeting with Chinese a few months ago , P-Man went over there a week later

There is a huge difference between the opposition visiting a foreign government in that particular country, and a foreign government visiting the opposition in their country.

This sounds more like CIA tactics. What's the next? US providing weapons to the red shirts?

There is no elected government. The country is run by the military. So, no opposition. I don't think this was a good call by the US, considering the situation we are now in. But if they were meeting with leaders of the former government, then that kinda makes sense. Elections will happen again and these former leaders will probably be prominent players again. Best to keep in touch with them. Nothing nefarious about this. Unless of course you hate the US.

What is it that you don't understand in the word 'former'?

I doubt that the former leader will be a prominent player in the next election, after she was impeached.

I don't think they were going there to meet Yingluck. The previous government did have several prominent leaders. Plural.

[tbthailand]

The Thai government tells the world that the US does not understand Thailand and the Thai people, but when they go out to meet a range of people who are not just government spokespersons the government gets all upset.

Thainess at it's best.

It is a good way to get a real understanding of Thailand and her people by getting out and mixing with people from all social demographics of the country. You will never get an understanding and have absolutely no idea if you just speak to one person or read about it in the papers. The U.S needs to get out amongst the real people and educate themselves.

True, however, the 'NCPO' is intent on governments 'understanding the situation in Thailand' which means only talking to the 'NCPO'.

[tbthailand]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

Sadly enough, the Yanks did listen to the cries for help from Europeans when Hitler invaded the whole of Europe with relative ease.

If they had not listened, nowadays Sauerkraut would be the main staple from Lisbon to Warsaw and from Oslo to Palermo..

Yes they supported the "free" world in 2 world wars against aggressive German regimes bent on domination of Europe. In both wars they entered late, at a point of time they decided on, and after lending money and supplies to the "allies" they eventually joined. (Italy was an ally of Germany btw in WW2). The Japanese allies of Germany brought them into WW2 after attacking Peal Harbor whilst in pursuit of their won Asian Pacific goals.

America politically was driven by financial and defense motivations, and especially by future aspirations. Nothing wrong in that, every country is. But no need to try to dress it up as some sort of crusaders for democracy, freedom and justice. Easter Europe was happily ignored and allowed to fall under Soviet dictatorship when required.

This in no way detracts from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives in a number of wars whilst serving their country.

wow, we saved your bacon and you still can't bring yourself to stop whining and just say 'thank you'.

[robertson468]

To be truthful the very act of meeting with the Red Shirt leadership smacks of American subterfuge in another sovereign states affairs, the American involvement in installing their brand of ''democracy'' around the world has been somewhat spectacular in its results with enormous death tolls immense collateral damage and an upsurge in terrorism in general.

The C.I.A. track record over the years exposes the fact that the powers that be in that organisation are intent on destroying any country or anyone who disagrees with their aims.

The involvement of the C.I.A.In the Indo China region alone since the 1950's has indeed been a disaster for those nations that the C.I.A leprous hands touched.Let alone the rest of the world

Perhaps if those Americans intent on bringing ''democracy'' as they view it to other sovereign states actually looked inward at their own nation they may well find that their own house is in need of massive repairs before starting on other sovereign states issues.

Beware the industrial military complex

I have to agree with you, furthermore, it would appear that the US Envoys cannot see what sort of message they would be putting out to Thailand and the World by giving preferential voice to the Red Shirts. Are they going to do a tour of Bangkok and all the Provinces leading South to Malaysia, doing the same?

Doesn't sound like it? I don't blame the Prime Minister being annoyed, "hello America, did you not see all the problems my Country had before the Coupe? Just give us the time to sort ourselves out, in our own way. We are NOT Americans and we do not want YOUR type of democtacy, which history shows that where you have been, inflicting others with your heavy handed intervention, has had disasterous outcomes in many cases. BACK OFF, BACK OFF! And for those on this forum who say, "this is typical Thainess", of course it is, we are in Thailand for goodness sake, and their Leaders understandably want to try and find a solution themselves and hopefully, one that will be sustained for years to come.

[mania]

I'd love to see these...humm...US dissenters...start signing their comments with the country they are from

All the US has done in Thailand is express an opinion and talk to people.

For simple minds the world is a simplistic place, but that is not the world we live in. We live in a dangerous world with a growing population of terrorists around every corner and a very large country, which could arguably be the most powerful country in the world; a country with the largest population on earth, starting to show a willingness to fight for lands it claims belong to them; a country that, in my opinion, would love to rule the entire planet, a country that will take over Thailand as a new province if Thailand keeps getting cozy with them.

If all these people who think the US is so bad, want to let the terrorists roam free to do as they will,

<post snipped to just what I am replying to>

I'm from the US thank you....does not mean I or other citizens agree with the US government gone wild committing actions in our names.

You need to look a little further into the claim all the US has done is talk to people.

You may even start with the recent report about a CIA torture house in Thailand.

Or the Viktor Bout deal etc....Nah US uses Thailand as they wish when they wish same as other places they use

Simple minds? What do you think caused the rise in terrorism? Instability in the Middle East?

Your China Fear Mongering is very 1950's...why not instead judge a country by recent decades of events/hostilities/aggressions?

If I did not see the part about the worlds largest population I would have thought your talking about Israel

Terrorist would not be roaming if they were not created in the first place.

Believe it or not most in the ME probably think of the US as the roaming/droning terrorist

[Roadman]

To be truthful the very act of meeting with the Red Shirt leadership smacks of American subterfuge in another sovereign states affairs, the American involvement in installing their brand of ''democracy'' around the world has been somewhat spectacular in its results with enormous death tolls immense collateral damage and an upsurge in terrorism in general.

The C.I.A. track record over the years exposes the fact that the powers that be in that organisation are intent on destroying any country or anyone who disagrees with their aims.

The involvement of the C.I.A.In the Indo China region alone since the 1950's has indeed been a disaster for those nations that the C.I.A leprous hands touched.Let alone the rest of the world

Perhaps if those Americans intent on bringing ''democracy'' as they view it to other sovereign states actually looked inward at their own nation they may well find that their own house is in need of massive repairs before starting on other sovereign states issues.

Beware the industrial military complex

I have to agree with you, furthermore, it would appear that the US Envoys cannot see what sort of message they would be putting out to Thailand and the World by giving preferential voice to the Red Shirts. Are they going to do a tour of Bangkok and all the Provinces leading South to Malaysia, doing the same?

Doesn't sound like it? I don't blame the Prime Minister being annoyed, "hello America, did you not see all the problems my Country had before the Coupe? Just give us the time to sort ourselves out, in our own way. We are NOT Americans and we do not want YOUR type of democtacy, which history shows that where you have been, inflicting others with your heavy handed intervention, has had disasterous outcomes in many cases. BACK OFF, BACK OFF! And for those on this forum who say, "this is typical Thainess", of course it is, we are in Thailand for goodness sake, and their Leaders understandably want to try and find a solution themselves and hopefully, one that will be sustained for years to come.

[/quote

Good post

[samii]

No need to start talking about free speech etc. Unfortunately the ones that have something to say are not heard as long as billionaires control them.

Reading this some readers might think T is the only billionaire in Thailand. He is not even in top 10.

[rotary]

Maybe they heard about how tough the traffic is in Khon Kaen so declined to come...........but that good news for Thailand anyway!

[samii]

No need to start talking about free speech etc. Unfortunately the ones that have something to say are not heard as long as billionaires control them.

Reading this some readers might think T is the only billionaire in Thailand. He is not even in top 10.

The top 10 is mostly supporting the old way ...which means money and projects to the network of friends and less funds to the rural areas.

Note also that when "the monk" was taking the streets, government buildings...with his noisy dudes, he was constantly asking US and others to interfere (asking them to "understand" the situation). Most of them rejected and saw these guys as opposition, who had a right to demonstrate, but not violate law by breaking up to government offices, threatening people and harm the country. Has anyone made any calculation how much "he" cost to the society?

Well there is a known crack in the Thai military, which is coming every year wider. I hope this widens and finally leads to the fact that army really starts do the things it suppose to do, which does not include politics (unless you are retired)

[Mr Yim]

The PM and Government are quickly getting out of their depth. I have no doubt the United States, through its NSA, know an awful lot more of what is going on than any Thaivisa member, and are now working to get the Thailand "on side".

[KhnomKhnom]

Quick, Thailand, send some of your own emissaries to USA to ask about.........

-Al Gore got majority votes for Pres but was denied the WH by the highest court in USA.

-Meet Posse Comitatus officials to explore their efforts to overthrow USA govt by force of arms, ask about private armies in usa.

-Ask about minorities being denied voting rights.

-Interview some Mexican people who came to USA as illegal immigrants to get their views.

USA, oops, some cracks in your perfection showing.

[Strangebrew]

Well guess the no beer and hookers ruined that trip.

[craigt3365]

A post discussing moderation has been removed from view, along with a troll post and the member warned. We've got enough anti-US troll posts. No need to add more.

[Eric Loh]

"Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order."

What casts a bad light on the government is that it got where it is by force, and it is scared of its population speaking out.

Population speaking out? The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan.

And the minority that seized the streets of Bangkok to dispose of a democratically elected government? They were thinking of Thailand as a whole or their own, self interests ?

It is always interesting that somebody has to show their hatred for the popularly government and it's supporters, as if that is some sort of great explanation for meriting martial law and the quashing of free speech.

Don't even bother to explain to such feeble mind. The yellow shirts are also on someone payroll and will only act on the command of someone and what's best for that someone probably from the establishment.

That may well be true Eric. But glad to see you acknowledge that the red shirts and their self appointed non democratic non elected leaders are owned and controlled lock, stock and barrel by the non elected criminal fugitive Thaksin and only act when instructed and in his interests.

Tell us something that we all don't know. Everyone but you know that Thaksin is a major financier for PT just like Sutherp is for the Dem. We know both of them have big influence on the party policies. We also know that Thaksin is the brain behind PT. That's not a crime right?

[Alwyn]

<quote> Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order.

That should convince the USA that Thailand is a free & democratic country... I remember when we were in Romania in the early 90's and groups of more than 4 were illegal and people actually had to have their curtains open in their homes! Who else prohibited free speech and freedom of it's citizens to say what they wanted to listen to what they wanted? Let me think..... Good job Thailand is a democracy (it must be, there's an 'elected' PM, right?)

Talking of curtains, did you know that at certain times Thai subjects are required to draw their 2nd floor curtains if they overlook the road?

My new bit of information for the day! I had no idea about this. Is it to stop drivers from perving into windows while they're driving maybe?

[Nemesis7]

<snjp>

They only insist on Democracy if they don't like the current government. If the current government is fully supporting them they don't care about democracy.

Unfortunately, that is all too true. The USA only does things that are in the interests of the USA, including supporting absolute dictators when they deem it in their best interests.

So, the USA's cries for democracy always ring hollow to me.

WhizBang, totally agree with you.

[SoFarAndNear]

Did anyone interupted an interview? US called off themselves...

[cumgranosalum]

"Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order."

What casts a bad light on the government is that it got where it is by force, and it is scared of its population speaking out.

Population speaking out? The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan.

And the minority that seized the streets of Bangkok to dispose of a democratically elected government? They were thinking of Thailand as a whole or their own, self interests ?

It is always interesting that somebody has to show their hatred for the popularly government and it's supporters, as if that is some sort of great explanation for meriting martial law and the quashing of free speech.

Don't even bother to explain to such feeble mind. The yellow shirts are also on someone payroll and will only act on the command of someone and what's best for that someone probably from the establishment.

That may well be true Eric. But glad to see you acknowledge that the red shirts and their self appointed non democratic non elected leaders are owned and controlled lock, stock and barrel by the non elected criminal fugitive Thaksin and only act when instructed and in his interests.

Tell us something that we all don't know. Everyone but you know that Thaksin is a major financier for PT just like Sutherp is for the Dem. We know both of them have big influence on the party policies. We also know that Thaksin is the brain behind PT. That's not a crime right?

"The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan" - this is completely wrong - many co-called leaders of both Red Shirts and Yellow have at varying times been in the SAME organisations. Loyalty ids not a strong point in Thai politics.

The nature of these two organisations changes too. the Yellow shirts have become far more right wing and radicalised over the past 3 or 4 years and many are disillusioned with this.....it is a best a very loose alliance and there are many factions within.

what I find disconcerting is that so many people are expressing opinions on this thread when they clearly have very little grasp of what is actually happening in Thailand today.

The BIG giveaway is their obsession with Thaksin.....every party likes to have a bogie-man, but I would have hoped that most TV members would be less gullible than that.

there is an elephant in the room and those "Sinawatra-phobes" are showing their ignorance by ignoring it.

[Suradit69]

To be truthful the very act of meeting with the Red Shirt leadership smacks of American subterfuge in another sovereign states affairs, the American involvement in installing their brand of ''democracy'' around the world has been somewhat spectacular in its results with enormous death tolls immense collateral damage and an upsurge in terrorism in general.

The C.I.A. track record over the years exposes the fact that the powers that be in that organisation are intent on destroying any country or anyone who disagrees with their aims.

The involvement of the C.I.A.In the Indo China region alone since the 1950's has indeed been a disaster for those nations that the C.I.A leprous hands touched.Let alone the rest of the world

Perhaps if those Americans intent on bringing ''democracy'' as they view it to other sovereign states actually looked inward at their own nation they may well find that their own house is in need of massive repairs before starting on other sovereign states issues.

Beware the industrial military complex

"To be truthful the very act of meeting with the Red Shirt leadership smacks of American subterfuge in another sovereign states affairs ..."

To be truthful (whatever that means in this context) it's sort of like Netanyahu diving into the morass of US politics.

The invitation by House Speaker John Boehner to Netanyahu last week sparked a serious crisis between the White House and the Prime Minister's Office, placing Israel in the political confrontation between Republicans and Democrats over negotiations with Iran. The White House and Democratic Party leaders asserted that Netanyahu's behavior in the affair was inappropriate.

[Nickymaster]

"Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order."

What casts a bad light on the government is that it got where it is by force, and it is scared of its population speaking out.

Population speaking out? The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan.

And the minority that seized the streets of Bangkok to dispose of a democratically elected government? They were thinking of Thailand as a whole or their own, self interests ?

It is always interesting that somebody has to show their hatred for the popularly government and it's supporters, as if that is some sort of great explanation for meriting martial law and the quashing of free speech.

Don't even bother to explain to such feeble mind. The yellow shirts are also on someone payroll and will only act on the command of someone and what's best for that someone probably from the establishment.

That may well be true Eric. But glad to see you acknowledge that the red shirts and their self appointed non democratic non elected leaders are owned and controlled lock, stock and barrel by the non elected criminal fugitive Thaksin and only act when instructed and in his interests.

Tell us something that we all don't know. Everyone but you know that Thaksin is a major financier for PT just like Sutherp is for the Dem. We know both of them have big influence on the party policies. We also know that Thaksin is the brain behind PT. That's not a crime right?

"The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan" - this is completely wrong - many co-called leaders of both Red Shirts and Yellow have at varying times been in the SAME organisations. Loyalty ids not a strong point in Thai politics.

The nature of these two organisations changes too. the Yellow shirts have become far more right wing and radicalised over the past 3 or 4 years and many are disillusioned with this.....it is a best a very loose alliance and there are many factions within.

what I find disconcerting is that so many people are expressing opinions on this thread when they clearly have very little grasp of what is actually happening in Thailand today.

The BIG giveaway is their obsession with Thaksin.....every party likes to have a bogie-man, but I would have hoped that most TV members would be less gullible than that.

there is an elephant in the room and those "Sinawatra-phobes" are showing their ignorance by ignoring it.

So what is happening then?

[cumgranosalum]

"Former Pheu Thai Party MPs said the MPs and red-shirt leaders had been warned by security officials against giving press interviews that cast a bad light on the government and the National Council for Peace and Order."

What casts a bad light on the government is that it got where it is by force, and it is scared of its population speaking out.

Population speaking out? The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan.

And the minority that seized the streets of Bangkok to dispose of a democratically elected government? They were thinking of Thailand as a whole or their own, self interests ?

It is always interesting that somebody has to show their hatred for the popularly government and it's supporters, as if that is some sort of great explanation for meriting martial law and the quashing of free speech.

Don't even bother to explain to such feeble mind. The yellow shirts are also on someone payroll and will only act on the command of someone and what's best for that someone probably from the establishment.

That may well be true Eric. But glad to see you acknowledge that the red shirts and their self appointed non democratic non elected leaders are owned and controlled lock, stock and barrel by the non elected criminal fugitive Thaksin and only act when instructed and in his interests.

Tell us something that we all don't know. Everyone but you know that Thaksin is a major financier for PT just like Sutherp is for the Dem. We know both of them have big influence on the party policies. We also know that Thaksin is the brain behind PT. That's not a crime right?

"The red shirt leaders are all on Thaksin's payroll and will only work for Thaksin and what is best for the Shin clan" - this is completely wrong - many co-called leaders of both Red Shirts and Yellow have at varying times been in the SAME organisations. Loyalty ids not a strong point in Thai politics.

The nature of these two organisations changes too. the Yellow shirts have become far more right wing and radicalised over the past 3 or 4 years and many are disillusioned with this.....it is a best a very loose alliance and there are many factions within.

what I find disconcerting is that so many people are expressing opinions on this thread when they clearly have very little grasp of what is actually happening in Thailand today.

The BIG giveaway is their obsession with Thaksin.....every party likes to have a bogie-man, but I would have hoped that most TV members would be less gullible than that.

there is an elephant in the room and those "Sinawatra-phobes" are showing their ignorance by ignoring it.

So what is happening then?

QED - Anyone with the slightest knowledge of Thai politics and history would know that I can't answer that question and therefore wouldn't ask it.

So - I must urge you to go back to the drawing board and READ, READ, READ until you get at least a vague idea of what is going on.

[Tokay]

Say what you will about the US, but they probably know more about what is happening in Thailand than the Thais do. You're talking about a country who can and does have access to every email, phone call, sms, text, chat log, and so on, from all over the world. The NSA is no joke.

[visionchaser45]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

We listened pretty well during WW I and WW II. If we hadn't, you'd be writing in German.

[spidermike007]

America might want to try establishing a democracy in its own country. This is a country that left no room for dissent, when it came to the invasion of Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Was what happened to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame something you would expect to see in a democracy? How about an objective news outlet? Al Jazeera was branded an enemy for broadcasting a more neutral, less rah rah version of events. Does this happen in a true democracy?

Just look at the success rate of forced democracy. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya. Democracy flourishes when a country is ready for it. Thailand has never really had a free and open democracy. Why does the US think it can handle it now? And who are the leaders the US would like to see "installed"?

Edited February 2, 2015 by spidermike007

[Anthony5]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

We listened pretty well during WW I and WW II. If we hadn't, you'd be writing in German.

Is that why the leading scientists in the US , after WW II, spoke native German?

[cumgranosalum]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

We listened pretty well during WW I and WW II. If we hadn't, you'd be writing in German.

If that was any more facile, it'd be a troll.

[cumgranosalum]

America might want to try establishing a democracy in its own country. This is a country that left no room for dissent, when it came to the invasion of Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Was what happened to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame something you would expect to see in a democracy? How about an objective news outlet? Al Jazeera was branded an enemy for broadcasting a more neutral, less rah rah version of events. Does this happen in a true democracy?

Just look at the success rate of forced democracy. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya. Democracy flourishes when a country is ready for it. Thailand has never really had a free and open democracy. Why does the US think it can handle it now? And who are the leaders the US would like to see "installed"?

Inaccurate view of the US and a patronising view of Thailand.

[baboon]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

We listened pretty well during WW I and WW II. If we hadn't, you'd be writing in German.

Russian, conceivably, but not German. The USSR did make its own tiny contribution to the war effort to the tune of 20 million lives lost and the devastation of their lands.

[cumgranosalum]

Say what you will about the US, but they probably know more about what is happening in Thailand than the Thais do. You're talking about a country who can and does have access to every email, phone call, sms, text, chat log, and so on, from all over the world. The NSA is no joke.

every country has access to emails etc - Thailand is world number one for closing web sites, monitoring etc etc....

but if you want to know what te US knows about Thailand, it's there for all to see - just log on to wikileaks.