US envoys call off trip to Isaan

[NeverSure]

America might want to try establishing a democracy in its own country. This is a country that left no room for dissent, when it came to the invasion of Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Was what happened to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame something you would expect to see in a democracy? How about an objective news outlet? Al Jazeera was branded an enemy for broadcasting a more neutral, less rah rah version of events. Does this happen in a true democracy?

Just look at the success rate of forced democracy. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya. Democracy flourishes when a country is ready for it. Thailand has never really had a free and open democracy. Why does the US think it can handle it now? And who are the leaders the US would like to see "installed"?

The US isn't a democracy and never was. The founders were careful to see that it wasn't.

The US is a republic of 50 states. Each state, regardless of population and numbers of voters, gets to put two representatives in the Senate. There are 100 Senators.

This keeps the big and rich states such as California from rolling over a small state such as Oregon which is next door. Each state has equal say.

Democracies are dangerous because the majority would vote to steal what others have with the power of the government behind them.

Edited February 2, 2015 by NeverSure

[halloween]

I don't think the US government would have a problem with anyone speaking with Republicans and Democrats. The point is there is now NO freedom of speech here.

But what if they had gone to Waco to talk with the Branch Davidians, or some other group of armed militants following the orders of a charismatic egomaniac?

[chainarong]

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The Thai government tells the world that the US does not understand Thailand and the Thai people, but when they go out to meet a range of people who are not just government spokespersons the government gets all upset.

Thainess at it's best.

It is a good way to get a real understanding of Thailand and her people by getting out and mixing with people from all social demographics of the country. You will never get an understanding and have absolutely no idea if you just speak to one person or read about it in the papers. The U.S needs to get out amongst the real people and educate themselves.

And Thai people need to get out and mix with the real people and understand the world doesn't stop at Thailand's boarders or owe them a living.

[The Deerhunter]

To be truthful the very act of meeting with the Red Shirt leadership smacks of American subterfuge in another sovereign states affairs, the American involvement in installing their brand of ''democracy'' around the world has been somewhat spectacular in its results with enormous death tolls immense collateral damage and an upsurge in terrorism in general.

The C.I.A. track record over the years exposes the fact that the powers that be in that organisation are intent on destroying any country or anyone who disagrees with their aims.

The involvement of the C.I.A.In the Indo China region alone since the 1950's has indeed been a disaster for those nations that the C.I.A leprous hands touched.Let alone the rest of the world

Perhaps if those Americans intent on bringing ''democracy'' as they view it to other sovereign states actually looked inward at their own nation they may well find that their own house is in need of massive repairs before starting on other sovereign states issues.

Beware the industrial military complex

Well, their brand of Democracy?

Mubarak

Saddam

Pinochet

Pol Pot

Saudi Arabia

They only insist on Democracy if they don't like the current government. If the current government is fully supporting them they don't care about democracy.

America has only two criteria for it's foreign policy.

1. My enemy's enemy is my friend.

2. Will it result in cheap oil?

(Possible third criteria... Will it pi$$ the communists off?)

Edited February 2, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[siampolee]

Might do well to remember that the American assistance during W.W.2 came at the cost of all the secret information that England had, grossly overpriced scrap iron disguised as lend lease supplies and of course Roosevelt's grand plan to take over the somewhat shaky remains of the British Empire and Europe with the assistance off his mate Joe Stalin.

Remember of course that the Nazi General Gehlen was indeed very involved with the O.S.S. and the C.I.A. hence one comes to see even more the deceit and the black art activities pursued by the C.I.A.

Indeed the average American envoy is about as trustworthy as a ''Greek bearing gifts.'' A somewhat ambiguous comment regarding the Wooden Horse of Troy.

[BSJ]

I am not into the American bashing, or China bashing for that matter. The fact is there are probably 100 or so ultra rich people (Check the annual Forbes list) that can influence and probably change governments in many countries using their financial clout. Rabbiting on about the CIA is giving credence to some little side show that maybe part of a larger game but not the main game.

Thailand is of minor significance in the global scheme of things. People on here should realise that and focus their energy on more important issues of a personal nature.

If you are not being affected in your everyday life then you are benefiting from the Happiness being brought to the Thai people. Enjoy your breakfast and forget about everything else.

Have a nice day.

[billd766]

The Thai government tells the world that the US does not understand Thailand and the Thai people, but when they go out to meet a range of people who are not just government spokespersons the government gets all upset.

Thainess at it's best.

It is a good way to get a real understanding of Thailand and her people by getting out and mixing with people from all social demographics of the country. You will never get an understanding and have absolutely no idea if you just speak to one person or read about it in the papers. The U.S needs to get out amongst the real people and educate themselves.

It seems as though the former US ambassador also visited Isaan which is where the current lot want to go.

The question is, did the former ambassador visit any other parts of Thailand and were the current lot only going to visit Isaan and not the rest of Thailand?

[cumgranosalum]

I am not into the American bashing, or China bashing for that matter. The fact is there are probably 100 or so ultra rich people (Check the annual Forbes list) that can influence and probably change governments in many countries using their financial clout. Rabbiting on about the CIA is giving credence to some little side show that maybe part of a larger game but not the main game.

Thailand is of minor significance in the global scheme of things. People on here should realise that and focus their energy on more important issues of a personal nature.

If you are not being affected in your everyday life then you are benefiting from the Happiness being brought to the Thai people. Enjoy your breakfast and forget about everything else.

Have a nice day.

America's history with Thailand goes back to at least the 19th century. In the 1960s they built roads and opened up huge areas of the country to the "modern world" the money they poured into Thailand in the 60s and 70s can only be guessed at.

The US needs Thailand for strategic reasons - they are a foothold/airfield and port in S.E.Asia, trade reasons and as a "friend" in ASEAN.

Thailand has the most industrialised economy of ASEAN, the 9th largest motor industry in the world, 700 US companies operate here from finance companies through technology to big names like GM and Ford.

US has supported some highly dubious characters in Thailand since 1`932, but they are compelled by law to stop aid etc to countries with governments installed by a coup. This can of course be re-negotiated......this is a process that Prayuth needs to approach diplomatically on behalf of Thailand - mouthing off at those wwho criticise him is not the most productive line in the long run.

[Stray]

The Thai government tells the world that the US does not understand Thailand and the Thai people, but when they go out to meet a range of people who are not just government spokespersons the government gets all upset.

Thainess at it's best.

The US Government does not NEED to understand Thailand and the Thai People. It's NONE of their business to intervene not take sides. They don't do it for people of Thailand, they only do it or their own interests. They keep pushing their nose into sovereign countries' affairs never for the benefit of the local people but only for their own.

None of their attempts to "help" any nation has ever really helped the people. Most often it only made things much much worse

Reading your last sentence, the US stepping in to help Australia, during World War 2 didn't, as far as I'm aware, make things much, much worse for Australia.

But, according to your post, that's the only time that the US has done good?

[halloween]

Sadly enough, the Yanks did listen to the cries for help from Europeans when Hitler invaded the whole of Europe with relative ease.

If they had not listened, nowadays Sauerkraut would be the main staple from Lisbon to Warsaw and from Oslo to Palermo..

Yes they supported the "free" world in 2 world wars against aggressive German regimes bent on domination of Europe. In both wars they entered late, at a point of time they decided on, and after lending money and supplies to the "allies" they eventually joined. (Italy was an ally of Germany btw in WW2). The Japanese allies of Germany brought them into WW2 after attacking Peal Harbor whilst in pursuit of their won Asian Pacific goals.

America politically was driven by financial and defense motivations, and especially by future aspirations. Nothing wrong in that, every country is. But no need to try to dress it up as some sort of crusaders for democracy, freedom and justice. Easter Europe was happily ignored and allowed to fall under Soviet dictatorship when required.

This in no way detracts from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives in a number of wars whilst serving their country.

wow, we saved your bacon and you still can't bring yourself to stop whining and just say 'thank you'.

Perhaps if you acknowledged the contribution of servicemen and women from Russia, Canada, Australia, NZ, India, South Africa, the Netherlands, Poland, France, Belgium, China, Burma, Malaya and many other countries you may never have heard of, we may be more inclined to say "thank you".

[cumgranosalum]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

Sadly enough, the Yanks did listen to the cries for help from Europeans when Hitler invaded the whole of Europe with relative ease.

If they had not listened, nowadays Sauerkraut would be the main staple from Lisbon to Warsaw and from Oslo to Palermo..

Yes they supported the "free" world in 2 world wars against aggressive German regimes bent on domination of Europe. In both wars they entered late, at a point of time they decided on, and after lending money and supplies to the "allies" they eventually joined. (Italy was an ally of Germany btw in WW2). The Japanese allies of Germany brought them into WW2 after attacking Peal Harbor whilst in pursuit of their won Asian Pacific goals.

America politically was driven by financial and defense motivations, and especially by future aspirations. Nothing wrong in that, every country is. But no need to try to dress it up as some sort of crusaders for democracy, freedom and justice. Easter Europe was happily ignored and allowed to fall under Soviet dictatorship when required.

This in no way detracts from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives in a number of wars whilst serving their country.

"from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives" - ?? Many millions? France gave millions Asia gave millions, Russia gave millions the Jews gave millions - US did not.

don't over estimate your value to the world or your contribution - put yourself in perspective. It may help you understand what is happening today in Thailand.

Edited February 3, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[willyumiii]

I knew America wasn't liked all that much around the world from reading TV for a number of years. I know the bad things our country has done, but it amazes me that so many people must think their country has never done anything wrong towards another country, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing stone at the US.

I'd love to see these...humm...US dissenters...start signing their comments with the country they are from so we can all start to research there countries to see how we can do things better, because all these people certainly must believe their countries are as clean as a new born baby's butt with respect to their foreign relations.

Every country on this planet has their problems, their faults, their good traits and their bad traits. And yes, the US has certainly done things I am not proud of. On the other hand, I'm sure every country on this planet has things they have done which their people are not proud of. Rather than putting the US down, maybe all these wonderful people should start comparing their country to the US, point-by-point, so we can all transparently see how much better their country is and so we can improve ourselves.

And BTW, don't compare a small country, that wouldn't dare take on the big boys with nuclear weapons, huge populations and less than democratic governments, with what the US has to contend with. Not all countries are created equal and so their interactions with the international community are necessarily going to take a far different format than a smaller country.

All the US has done in Thailand is express an opinion and talk to people. If this is a threat then I guess those people whose feelings have been threaten must be on pretty shaky ground and don't really have the support of the majority of their citizens; at least not the support they'd like to believe they have.

For simple minds the world is a simplistic place, but that is not the world we live in. We live in a dangerous world with a growing population of terrorists around every corner and a very large country, which could arguably be the most powerful country in the world; a country with the largest population on earth, starting to show a willingness to fight for lands it claims belong to them; a country that, in my opinion, would love to rule the entire planet, a country that will take over Thailand as a new province if Thailand keeps getting cozy with them.

If all these people who think the US is so bad, want to let the terrorists roam free to do as they will, if all these people who hate the US want to let countries which have territorial acquisition aspirations do as they will with no constraints, if all these people who think they can sit back and take a passive roll in the world want to let dictators, mass murders and despotic governments continue to function unabated, then by all means let the US fade into the woodwork never to be heard from again. When something bad happens to your country go ahead and turn your cheek, then watch as the other cheek gets brutally ripped off by a bigger country that has nothing and on one to hold them back.

I am an American who agrees with you 100%

Except..

As I remember, a new born babies ass is usually covered with the worst smelling, slimey fecal matter ever imagined.....

I have changed a few diapers in my time!

I have also noticed that many from small, powerless, insignificant countries have a "little man complex" and like to pretend they are significant and better than those in charge.

Edited February 3, 2015 by willyumiii

[cumgranosalum]

I knew America wasn't liked all that much around the world from reading TV for a number of years. I know the bad things our country has done, but it amazes me that so many people must think their country has never done anything wrong towards another country, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing stone at the US.

I'd love to see these...humm...US dissenters...start signing their comments with the country they are from so we can all start to research there countries to see how we can do things better, because all these people certainly must believe their countries are as clean as a new born baby's butt with respect to their foreign relations.

Every country on this planet has their problems, their faults, their good traits and their bad traits. And yes, the US has certainly done things I am not proud of. On the other hand, I'm sure every country on this planet has things they have done which their people are not proud of. Rather than putting the US down, maybe all these wonderful people should start comparing their country to the US, point-by-point, so we can all transparently see how much better their country is and so we can improve ourselves.

And BTW, don't compare a small country, that wouldn't dare take on the big boys with nuclear weapons, huge populations and less than democratic governments, with what the US has to contend with. Not all countries are created equal and so their interactions with the international community are necessarily going to take a far different format than a smaller country.

All the US has done in Thailand is express an opinion and talk to people. If this is a threat then I guess those people whose feelings have been threaten must be on pretty shaky ground and don't really have the support of the majority of their citizens; at least not the support they'd like to believe they have.

For simple minds the world is a simplistic place, but that is not the world we live in. We live in a dangerous world with a growing population of terrorists around every corner and a very large country, which could arguably be the most powerful country in the world; a country with the largest population on earth, starting to show a willingness to fight for lands it claims belong to them; a country that, in my opinion, would love to rule the entire planet, a country that will take over Thailand as a new province if Thailand keeps getting cozy with them.

If all these people who think the US is so bad, want to let the terrorists roam free to do as they will, if all these people who hate the US want to let countries which have territorial acquisition aspirations do as they will with no constraints, if all these people who think they can sit back and take a passive roll in the world want to let dictators, mass murders and despotic governments continue to function unabated, then by all means let the US fade into the woodwork never to be heard from again. When something bad happens to your country go ahead and turn your cheek, then watch as the other cheek gets brutally ripped off by a bigger country that has nothing and on one to hold them back.

I am an American who agrees with you 100%

Except..

As I remember, a new born babies ass is usually covered with the worst smelling, slimey fecal matter ever imagined.....

I have changed a few diapers in my time!

I have also noticed that many from small, powerless, insignificant countries have a "little man complex" and like to pretend they are significant and better than those in charge.

Interesting - you seem to make a classic America mistake. Your premise is critically flawed...........Those who criticise the States are also aware of the histories and mistakes of their own and other countries; they have a truly international perspective on world affairs ...not one blinkered by the parochialism that seems to impair the vision of so many Americans.

Edited February 3, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[spidermike007]

Say what you will about the US, but they probably know more about what is happening in Thailand than the Thais do. You're talking about a country who can and does have access to every email, phone call, sms, text, chat log, and so on, from all over the world. The NSA is no joke.

every country has access to emails etc - Thailand is world number one for closing web sites, monitoring etc etc....

but if you want to know what te US knows about Thailand, it's there for all to see - just log on to wikileaks.

There are now over 900,000 people working for American intelligence. They are gathering alot of info from grandmothers, and it is a staggering waste of resources. No doubt the US gathers more nonsense than most other nations combined. I doubt if Thai intelligence gathers much. Nice that way.

[spidermike007]

WOW! The yanks are listening, for a change!

Sadly enough, the Yanks did listen to the cries for help from Europeans when Hitler invaded the whole of Europe with relative ease.

If they had not listened, nowadays Sauerkraut would be the main staple from Lisbon to Warsaw and from Oslo to Palermo..

Yes they supported the "free" world in 2 world wars against aggressive German regimes bent on domination of Europe. In both wars they entered late, at a point of time they decided on, and after lending money and supplies to the "allies" they eventually joined. (Italy was an ally of Germany btw in WW2). The Japanese allies of Germany brought them into WW2 after attacking Peal Harbor whilst in pursuit of their won Asian Pacific goals.

America politically was driven by financial and defense motivations, and especially by future aspirations. Nothing wrong in that, every country is. But no need to try to dress it up as some sort of crusaders for democracy, freedom and justice. Easter Europe was happily ignored and allowed to fall under Soviet dictatorship when required.

This in no way detracts from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives in a number of wars whilst serving their country.

"from many millions of brave US service people who gave their lives" - ?? Many millions? France gave millions Asia gave millions, Russia gave millions the Jews gave millions - US did not.

don't over estimate your value to the world or your contribution - put yourself in perspective. It may help you understand what is happening today in Thailand.

There were over 405,000 US soldiers killed in WWII. And far more injured. Not an insignificant number. When compared to Russia though far less. However, Stalin himself had millions of his own executed. His madness was nearly that of Hitler. Though at between 15 and 17 million, Hitler deserves the true madman prize. What a loser. And Mao. It is estimated as many as 40 million were either killed by that superfreak, or died as a direct result of his terribly misguided policies. And later Pol Pot. All madmen. All losers. Probably all poorly endowed and impotent. Edited February 3, 2015 by spidermike007

[Thai at Heart]

I would say that the US is fully aware that if and when any kind of real democracy returns , they won't be dealing with the people who are in office now.

I don't recall a big hoo ha from the Junta when Thaksin and Yingluck had a meeting with Chinese a few months ago , P-Man went over there a week later

There is a huge difference between the opposition visiting a foreign government in that particular country, and a foreign government visiting the opposition in their country.

This sounds more like CIA tactics. What's the next? US providing weapons to the red shirts?

If the CIA was visiting the reds u wouldn't know.

This is a very very public show of support to the reds. Why?

Because they are going to probably win the election thus the USA has to support them. Irrespective.

[cumgranosalum]

Say what you will about the US, but they probably know more about what is happening in Thailand than the Thais do. You're talking about a country who can and does have access to every email, phone call, sms, text, chat log, and so on, from all over the world. The NSA is no joke.

every country has access to emails etc - Thailand is world number one for closing web sites, monitoring etc etc....

but if you want to know what te US knows about Thailand, it's there for all to see - just log on to wikileaks.

There are now over 900,000 people working for American intelligence. They are gathering alot of info from grandmothers, and it is a staggering waste of resources. No doubt the US gathers more nonsense than most other nations combined. I doubt if Thai intelligence gathers much. Nice that way

You have a truly huge misconception about Thailand's monitoring of electronic communications. they ae currently blocking about 160,000 web sites they deem to be insulting to the monarchy, nation or religion.

however, as I said wikileaks has published an ENORMOUS amount of information on Thailand from US embassy cables etc.

[spidermike007]

Say what you will about the US, but they probably know more about what is happening in Thailand than the Thais do. You're talking about a country who can and does have access to every email, phone call, sms, text, chat log, and so on, from all over the world. The NSA is no joke.

every country has access to emails etc - Thailand is world number one for closing web sites, monitoring etc etc....

but if you want to know what te US knows about Thailand, it's there for all to see - just log on to wikileaks.

There are now over 900,000 people working for American intelligence. They are gathering alot of info from grandmothers, and it is a staggering waste of resources. No doubt the US gathers more nonsense than most other nations combined. I doubt if Thai intelligence gathers much. Nice that way

You have a truly huge misconception about Thailand's monitoring of electronic communications. they ae currently blocking about 160,000 web sites they deem to be insulting to the monarchy, nation or religion.

however, as I said wikileaks has published an ENORMOUS amount of information on Thailand from US embassy cables etc.

From my point of view, blocking porn sites, and sites deemed to be politically unfavorable is a whole lot different than monitoring email, sms, phone calls, and other forms of communication. Blocking is probably a fairly simple deal. A kid could do it.