Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[cloudos]

Any of you guys been to Taj Mahal? The price there is around 50 times the local price for foreigners. Maintaining these places are expensive and the shortfall is funded through tax. If tax receipts fall, then prices rise. The issue is where to draw the line. The Thai Authorities are within their rights to do so but raising prices attract more negativity than if there was a high local price to foreign price ratio to begin with. I don't have a lot of examples but I would assume that higher foreigner prices are not only limited to Thailand.

[Shadychris]

So on this basis. if a Thai visits London, for example, and the cost to enter Madam Tassauds is £10 a Brit, should a Thai be charged £100 entry fee ?

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

And when they offer this in the local community.. Do they only offer it to one race ??

Or is it everyone who is resident there ??

Stop trying to make excuses for a policy that is purely about race..

Nobody more racist than somebody who keeps banging on about being racially discriminated against when in fact the matter at hand has nothing to do with race, as in this case its about residency. I get to pay thai prices because instead of spending my life moaning about things and crying racism and every other excuse to be found, i put the time to good use instead and learnt some thai and got some thai paperwork..

[MAJIC]

So on this basis. if a Thai visits London, for example, and the cost to enter Madam Tassauds is £10 a Brit, should a Thai be charged £100 entry fee ?

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

Edited February 4, 2015 by MAJIC

[chooka]

Any of you guys been to Taj Mahal? The price there is around 50 times the local price for foreigners. Maintaining these places are expensive and the shortfall is funded through tax. If tax receipts fall, then prices rise. The issue is where to draw the line. The Thai Authorities are within their rights to do so but raising prices attract more negativity than if there was a high local price to foreign price ratio to begin with. I don't have a lot of examples but I would assume that higher foreigner prices are not only limited to Thailand.

Have you been to places like Australia where everyone regardless of colour, race or religion, whether a resident, citizen or tourist pays the same? Pensioners will get discount as a thank you for contributing to society all your life.

[Shadychris]

So on this basis. if a Thai visits London, for example, and the cost to enter Madam Tassauds is £10 a Brit, should a Thai be charged £100 entry fee ?

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

i

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

[hawker9000]

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

i

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

I think there's a difference between incentivizing the local population in order to boost patronage (and revenue) by discounting their entrance, and extorting foreigners by surcharging their entrance, simply because you can... In the former case, the intent is to boost attendance to raise money. No one is injured but some are incentivized, and the incentivization isn't really in the face of the non-incentivized. In the latter case, the intent is simply to tax foreigners (and only foreigners) to raise money. The foreigners targeted are most certainly disadvantaged & disincentivized by, not to mention aware of (and possibly antagonized) by it. (If you doubt the last, you're not paying attention to this thread!)

Do you really expect the practice to make a positive impression on the group being targeted, namely, tourists?? Do you really think that reports & knowledge of the practice won't negatively affect the worldview and desirability of Thailand as a tourist destination? ...in addition to all the other negative stories, which seem to be multiplying like rabbits these days?

You can usually tell the invested, defensive expats from the actual (and prospective) tourists...

[MAJIC]

Reply to Shadycris..... Post 455

"Man! that's pathetic,and all because you have a bad thing about the UK,and don't understand the meaning of discrimination!

Bye!

[MAJIC]

Any of you guys been to Taj Mahal? The price there is around 50 times the local price for foreigners. Maintaining these places are expensive and the shortfall is funded through tax. If tax receipts fall, then prices rise. The issue is where to draw the line. The Thai Authorities are within their rights to do so but raising prices attract more negativity than if there was a high local price to foreign price ratio to begin with. I don't have a lot of examples but I would assume that higher foreigner prices are not only limited to Thailand.

Have you been to places like Australia where everyone regardless of colour, race or religion, whether a resident, citizen or tourist pays the same? Pensioners will get discount as a thank you for contributing to society all your life.

Yes I have been to Australia when I was 18 in the sixties,on a World Cruise,no I didn't pay for the cruise,( I couldn't afford the price of a pack of cigs) so I worked my passage of 2 months 18 days (Freemantle, Melbourne & Sidney) (among many other countries ) and I was there just after the completion of the Sydney Opera house! , loved the Country and the people,I still get on instantly with Australians,and I have a video in my head of my BP Tanker,going under Sydney Harbour Bridge,and we also give anyone the same prices as we pay,and rightly so!...... Apologies for the walk down memory lane!

[Shadychris]

I think there's a difference between incentivizing the local population in order to boost patronage (and revenue) by discounting their entrance, and extorting foreigners by surcharging their entrance, simply because you can... In the former case, the intent is to boost attendance to raise money. No one is injured but some are incentivized, and the incentivization isn't really in the face of the non-incentivized. In the latter case, the intent is simply to tax foreigners (and only foreigners) to raise money. The foreigners targeted are most certainly disadvantaged & disincentivized by, not to mention aware of (and possibly antagonized) by it. (If you doubt the last, you're not paying attention to this thread!)

Do you really expect the practice to make a positive impression on the group being targeted, namely, tourists?? Do you really think that reports & knowledge of the practice won't negatively affect the worldview and desirability of Thailand as a tourist destination? ...in addition to all the other negative stories, which seem to be multiplying like rabbits these days?

You can usually tell the invested, defensive expats from the actual (and prospective) tourists...

I take your point about incentivising locals by offering them a discount - but to be fair shouldnt tourists then also be offered the same discount? If not then it is dual pricing no matter how you spin it.

However it really is no big secret that dual pricing exists in Thailand and is perfectly legal there. I was well aware of the fact before the first time I ever visited as I took the trouble to research properly. It's also the case that they try not to make it 'in your face' by displaying the different prices in Thai writing and numerals which most tourists are not able to read.

I really dont see either that paying just 400 baht which is less than 15 mins work for a westerner on average salary can be considered as extortionate, whereas for a Thai working in a chicken processing factory that amount is more than a days wage.. Having now had considerably more experience of the culture I understand the Thai attitude to this, and it is quite simply that we can afford to pay more. In much the same way as the Western Governments tax the rich more heavily than the poor, and pay out benefits to the poor, Thailand will have one set of prices that are affordable to local people, and another that are affordable to visitors. It is after all their country and people have a choice. If people are upset or antagonised by it then they probably shouldnt select Thailand as a destination. If they havent done their research first and are surprised by things when they arrive - well they only have themselves to blame.. Moaning about it is not going to change anything.

[chooka]

Any of you guys been to Taj Mahal? The price there is around 50 times the local price for foreigners. Maintaining these places are expensive and the shortfall is funded through tax. If tax receipts fall, then prices rise. The issue is where to draw the line. The Thai Authorities are within their rights to do so but raising prices attract more negativity than if there was a high local price to foreign price ratio to begin with. I don't have a lot of examples but I would assume that higher foreigner prices are not only limited to Thailand.

Have you been to places like Australia where everyone regardless of colour, race or religion, whether a resident, citizen or tourist pays the same? Pensioners will get discount as a thank you for contributing to society all your life.

Yes I have been to Australia when I was 18 in the sixties,on a World Cruise,no I didn't pay for the cruise,( I couldn't afford the price of a pack of cigs) so I worked my passage of 2 months 18 days (Freemantle, Melbourne & Sidney) (among many other countries ) and I was there just after the completion of the Sydney Opera house! , loved the Country and the people,I still get on instantly with Australians,and I have a video in my head of my BP Tanker,going under Sydney Harbour Bridge,and we also give anyone the same prices as we pay,and rightly so!...... Apologies for the walk down memory lane!

That's ok, nice story almost made me cry. ?

[MrMo]

Do farangs with Thai driving licence still get in at the Thai rate ?

[captspectre]

I am totally O.K. with the inflated prices for foreigners. Just as long as it keeps the Chinese tourist out of the parks.

this may come as a surprise to you, but chinese ARE foreigners!

[LennyW]

I thought 400 baht was the going rate for entry to national parks in Thailand for foreigners, looks like ONE park was charging less and was told to correct their fees, hyped of course by the coconuts puff piece makes it look a bit different!

[AyG]

I thought 400 baht was the going rate for entry to national parks in Thailand for foreigners

You thought wrong. Only the top attractions were charging 400 Baht. The vast majority was charging less - typically 200 Baht.

[kieran2698]

Sorry, but my logic is the one shared by the tourist authorities in countries which have dual pricing whereas yours is just based on a poor understanding of the given lexis.

And that logic then is also discriminatory and just another way to cover up racism as the Thais often do in writing Thai prices in the little used Thai numerals. They know it is wrong but do it anyway.

A discount is a deduction from the usual cost of something. If the usual cost of entering a park is 400 baht and the majority Thai visitors receive a 90% discount then take away the foreigners and they should go bankrupt. Which they wouldn't because the 40 baht is the usual cost.

And note the topic heading. "Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold" not "Thai National Parks ordered to give Thais 90% discount".

You are making ridiculous assumptions about this situation. You presume that because Thais pay 40 baht that this is what is takes to run the park, in reality there is not limit to how much could be spent and every baht helps. The National Parks are funded by the government, they will not go "bankrupt" they are national parks not businesses.

You go by a newspaper headline if you want, I am going by official statements by the tourist authority, everywhere dual pricing happens they give the same reasoning, it is not to penalize foreigners but to provide incentive to locals.

And you presume that a Thai gets a discount from the regular price. Perhaps if the national parks were run like a business, a Farang one not a Thai one, they might be worth 400 baht to visit.

Incentice for locals!!! We are not talking locals as in the same town, city, province we are talking the whole country vs the rest of the planet. That is discrimination, not penalization. But if you wish to see it your deluded way and believe that the Thai nation is receiving a discount so be it. But there are many more who see it as it really is, racist. And that many more includes many of the Thai people themselves who would like to see this skin tax abolished.

First, national parks are not a business and they are not run like businesses in farang countries. You fail to see the worth in contributing to the protection of the natural world and assume that it is you that should be getting something from it rather than the world, how sad.

Actually I do not believe it is a good idea to have dual pricing, however I can see where they are coming from and it isn't your silly little racist idea.

[BSJ]

The wife has been wanting to go to Phu Hin Rong Kla National Park but I am not one bit interested in National parks. Definitely won't happen now!

[kieran2698]

Nothing to do with being white and you know it, it has to do with not having residency, so actually the same.

And yet they gave my Khmer girlfriend here visiting as a tourist the Thai price..

And I a 14 year resident with long stay visa and Thai drivers license pay the fee..

Its racist discriminatory pricing, determined simply on look. Denying that makes you look foolish.

Yes, you are obviously right, the person selling tickets was a racist for noticing that you were foreign but failing to realize that your girlfriend is from Cambodia, that makes sense!

[Jasun]

I'm all for paying to get into national parks, especially if it improves the park and the experience. But this example raises just B20,000 a year (assuming 100 foreigners still visit this park). That'll hardly cover the reprinting of signage. Lifting the local price by as little as 5 baht would have been infinitely more productive.

[LivinLOS]

I don't think charging more to foreign tourists is xenophobic; xenophobia is unreasonable fear or hatred.

Are reduced fees for pensioners on buses and at museums discrimination?

And what do you call applying 10x the fee to resident tax paying foreigners ??

You are (presume purposefully) missing the point.

The nat parks have confirmed officially.. No discounts even if you live here decades and pay taxes.

Thai, living in switzerland, paying no tax here, visiting as a tourist.. Discount.

Farang, living here 30 years, speaking Thai, working here, paying tax here, with a family here.. Officially 10x the price.

How is that not a policy based on xenophobic attitudes ??

[LivinLOS]

And when they offer this in the local community.. Do they only offer it to one race ??

Or is it everyone who is resident there ??

Stop trying to make excuses for a policy that is purely about race..

Nobody more racist than somebody who keeps banging on about being racially discriminated against when in fact the matter at hand has nothing to do with race, as in this case its about residency. I get to pay thai prices because instead of spending my life moaning about things and crying racism and every other excuse to be found, i put the time to good use instead and learnt some thai and got some thai paperwork..

What Thai paperwork..

The parks department have recently confirmed.. very clearly.. Thai DL, or work permit, or tax payment history should not qualify for any discount.

http://www.thephuketnews.com/tax-paying-foreigners-not-entitled-to-local-price-at-national-parks-50333.php

"Tax-paying foreigners not entitled to local price at National Parks"

Explain how that rule is not about nationality / race ?? When 'local' does not mean local taxpaying resident ??

[LivinLOS]

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

Precisely.. ALL local residents.. irrelevant what race they are..

This would be a fair policy.. If they came around giving discounts to all local houses, except the asians, its would be racist..

[LivinLOS]

I thought 400 baht was the going rate for entry to national parks in Thailand for foreigners, looks like ONE park was charging less and was told to correct their fees, hyped of course by the coconuts puff piece makes it look a bit different!

No one park commented.. 31 parks have been told to raise their prices..

[LivinLOS]

Do farangs with Thai driving licence still get in at the Thai rate ?

http://www.thephuketnews.com/tax-paying-foreigners-not-entitled-to-local-price-at-national-parks-50333.php

Legally no..

In reality.. maybe..

They have however been very clear about their formal policy.

[LivinLOS]

Nothing to do with being white and you know it, it has to do with not having residency, so actually the same.

And yet they gave my Khmer girlfriend here visiting as a tourist the Thai price..

And I a 14 year resident with long stay visa and Thai drivers license pay the fee..

Its racist discriminatory pricing, determined simply on look. Denying that makes you look foolish.

Yes, you are obviously right, the person selling tickets was a racist for noticing that you were foreign but failing to realize that your girlfriend is from Cambodia, that makes sense!

Makes perfect sense.. Even tho my GF of the time didnt speak Thai and was here on holiday.. The ticket seller still gave her the discount.. I however, who do speak Thai, and have local address and am resident.. She wanted the full price.

This was determined on one factor alone..

[Longstaff]

I don't think charging more to foreign tourists is xenophobic; xenophobia is unreasonable fear or hatred.

Are reduced fees for pensioners on buses and at museums discrimination?

And what do you call applying 10x the fee to resident tax paying foreigners ??

You are (presume purposefully) missing the point.

The nat parks have confirmed officially.. No discounts even if you live here decades and pay taxes.

Thai, living in switzerland, paying no tax here, visiting as a tourist.. Discount.

Farang, living here 30 years, speaking Thai, working here, paying tax here, with a family here.. Officially 10x the price.

How is that not a policy based on xenophobic attitudes ??

I think the policy is unreasonable and unfair to farang living in Thailand and contributing to society as presumably you, like I do. I made two points in what I wrote about fees for local taxpayers.

Like governments the world over, this one produces a blunt instrument to 'solve' a problem; rather than coming up with a more elegant solution based on some sound reasoning and proper research.

It's still not a reflection of xenophobia (hatred and fear), more likely it is a sign of yet another quick-fire, ill-conceived policy that has not been properly thought through or discussed at any length within the government ministries, let alone opened up for public consultation before implementation. TIT.

[tx22cb]

10 times higher for all foreigners?

Brilliant - I know all tourists are charged more than Thais, but I hate it when a Western tourist gets charged more than an Asian tourist.

So now Brits/Ozzies/Muricans get the same high prices as Singaporeans/Filipinos/Chinese.

[Bluespunk]

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

i

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

Nope. Anyone who has one posted through their door can use it, irrespective of nationality.

[Bluespunk]

Any of you guys been to Taj Mahal? The price there is around 50 times the local price for foreigners. Maintaining these places are expensive and the shortfall is funded through tax. If tax receipts fall, then prices rise. The issue is where to draw the line. The Thai Authorities are within their rights to do so but raising prices attract more negativity than if there was a high local price to foreign price ratio to begin with. I don't have a lot of examples but I would assume that higher foreigner prices are not only limited to Thailand.

It doesn't matter where it happens. It's always wrong to charge more based on nationality.

[GarryP]

I think there's a difference between incentivizing the local population in order to boost patronage (and revenue) by discounting their entrance, and extorting foreigners by surcharging their entrance, simply because you can... In the former case, the intent is to boost attendance to raise money. No one is injured but some are incentivized, and the incentivization isn't really in the face of the non-incentivized. In the latter case, the intent is simply to tax foreigners (and only foreigners) to raise money. The foreigners targeted are most certainly disadvantaged & disincentivized by, not to mention aware of (and possibly antagonized) by it. (If you doubt the last, you're not paying attention to this thread!)

Do you really expect the practice to make a positive impression on the group being targeted, namely, tourists?? Do you really think that reports & knowledge of the practice won't negatively affect the worldview and desirability of Thailand as a tourist destination? ...in addition to all the other negative stories, which seem to be multiplying like rabbits these days?

You can usually tell the invested, defensive expats from the actual (and prospective) tourists...

I take your point about incentivising locals by offering them a discount - but to be fair shouldnt tourists then also be offered the same discount? If not then it is dual pricing no matter how you spin it.

However it really is no big secret that dual pricing exists in Thailand and is perfectly legal there. I was well aware of the fact before the first time I ever visited as I took the trouble to research properly. It's also the case that they try not to make it 'in your face' by displaying the different prices in Thai writing and numerals which most tourists are not able to read.

I really dont see either that paying just 400 baht which is less than 15 mins work for a westerner on average salary can be considered as extortionate, whereas for a Thai working in a chicken processing factory that amount is more than a days wage.. Having now had considerably more experience of the culture I understand the Thai attitude to this, and it is quite simply that we can afford to pay more. In much the same way as the Western Governments tax the rich more heavily than the poor, and pay out benefits to the poor, Thailand will have one set of prices that are affordable to local people, and another that are affordable to visitors. It is after all their country and people have a choice. If people are upset or antagonised by it then they probably shouldnt select Thailand as a destination. If they havent done their research first and are surprised by things when they arrive - well they only have themselves to blame.. Moaning about it is not going to change anything.

While I earn a bit more than most Thais, there are still a hell of a lot of Thais who are earning more than me. By your logic, such Thais should also be paying the higher rate as they can afford it, which is clearly not the case.

I refused to go to national parks when it was only twice or three times the local price, not because I could not afford it, but because I did not agree with this policy of dual pricing. Many resident foreigners went to these parks and paid the higher price for not being Thai, but did not like it when it was only double or so the going rate. However, when it is 10 times the price, I am pretty sure it will keep many of them away from return visits, which in the end will impact revenue to a certain degree.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I really dont see either that paying just 400 baht which is less than 15 mins work for a westerner on average salary can be considered as extortionate, whereas for a Thai working in a chicken processing factory that amount is more than a days wage..

Your argument is defective in more than one way. First, only a few privileged earn a (disposable income after taxes) of 1600 THB or 49 USD per hour or more. Second, you imply that all foreigners are rich while all Thai locals are poor. How long do you have to stay in Thailand to come up with such a naive generalisation?

It is after all their country and people have a choice. If people are upset or antagonised by it then they probably shouldnt select Thailand as a destination. If they havent done their research first and are surprised by things when they arrive - well they only have themselves to blame..

Do you honestly believe people research holiday expenses in advance at that level of detail? Is it your own fault when you get ripped off? Seems like a pretty warped point of view.

The brash double pricing scheme in Thailand has left a bad impression on tourists for years and the recent decision will only make things worse. Many of the national parks in Thailand are already damaged and exploited, and the landscape degradation and decline of habitats is obvious to any longtime observer. One gets the impression that the forestry department is more concerned with extracting revenue from the national parks than to actually conserve them.

Yes, it is their country, and they have the right to close their eyes to their problems. With that being said, we are now looking forward to the burning season in northern Thailand. As every year, local villagers will enter the national parks (not paying any fees of course), and burn the undergrowth to harvest mushrooms in May which they then sell at high prices. And as every year, the national park officers will do almost nothing to prevent it.

Cheers, CM-Expat

Edited February 5, 2015 by chiangmaiexpat