Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thank God I'm only here for the cheap sex.

Anyone want to blow 400 Baht on some silly waterfall with trash around?

Didn't think so.

[Shadychris]

So on this basis. if a Thai visits London, for example, and the cost to enter Madam Tassauds is £10 a Brit, should a Thai be charged £100 entry fee ?

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

i

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

But foreigners who live in these houses DO! That's the point!!!!

Exactly, because they are residents - and if you LIVE in Thailand and can prove RESIDENCY then you are entitled to the discounted prices in Thailand too!!

[Shadychris]

Thank God I'm only here for the cheap sex.

Anyone want to blow 400 Baht on some silly waterfall with trash around?

Didn't think so.

In a funny way you have highlighted something rather strange here.....

Setting aside for a moment the debates about whether dual pricing is right or not, and whether it's about racism or taxes or nationality; at the end of the day we are talking about just 400BHT here.....

A sum that most of those wringing their hands and crying is extortionate, wouldn't think twice about giving to a hooker for a 10 minute BJ, or spending on pi**ing 2 pints of beer down the toilet within an hour back home.... But 400BHT to access a National Park for a whole day - that's outrageous...

[Dumu Ali]

Shady Chris has some good points I would however say 20 minutes this is Bangkok not New York

[ttthailand]

Most of the parks are off the farang tourist path. Those farangs who do normally go take their Thai families. Why oh why would they add even more expense for these guys. Many have already taken a burden off Thailand and support their new wives and step children.

My experience with these parks is that they are not worth my time let along 400 baht. I only go because of the Thais I bring along who want to go see.. Which is now going to stop... It's a matter of principle. Greed !!! Wake up Thailand before its too late.

[steve187]

I have just been on a short break touring, with my Thai wife and some other family members, from the border crossing at Myanmar up to the waterfalls and dams in Erawan National park Kanchanaburi, down to Kaeng Krachan National park Phetchaburi, only paying Thai price using my Thai drivers licence. Had a great trip with some fabulous views.

Don't knock it till you try it, Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it, Yes, look at the prices for attractions in the west, man made not nature made. should they have to pay it, well someone has to help with the maintenance/ upkeep of these places. would they get moor tourists if it was cheaper, I don't think so. really what is 400 baht as a part of a 100,000 baht holiday.

[ttthailand]

I have been to perhaps 20 or more Thai parks and have found most not worth my time. You walk up a hill along a river to find a 25 foot high water fall, SO !!! Along the way there is some trash and a few stands selling water for twice the normal price. Seen one you seen them all.

Temples are about the same. After a few they all start looking the same.

If the family wants to go I will go but only for them. I also normally show my drivers lic and not a problem but a few have insisted I pay... The last time it happened the gf changed her mind and we walked away. She was the one who was upset not me... She said it is not fair... I love this girl

[MartinL]

If my wife was asked to pay 400 baht - or even 200 - to go into some of these parks, she'd say "Paeng", try to barter it down & if that didn't work she'd turn round & walk away. Strangely enough, my wife & I live on EXACTLY the same family income. If she thinks 400฿ is expensive, that's good enough for me. On the whole, I don't care whether I go in or not.

Edited February 5, 2015 by MartinL

[Shadychris]

I have been to perhaps 20 or more Thai parks and have found most not worth my time. You walk up a hill along a river to find a 25 foot high water fall, SO !!! Along the way there is some trash and a few stands selling water for twice the normal price. Seen one you seen them all.

Temples are about the same. After a few they all start looking the same.

If the family wants to go I will go but only for them. I also normally show my drivers lic and not a problem but a few have insisted I pay... The last time it happened the gf changed her mind and we walked away. She was the one who was upset not me... She said it is not fair... I love this girl

Horses for courses chap.

Sounds like the countryside and cultural history aren't really your cup of tea - what with your time being so valuable maybe a trip to Disneyland and a burger is more your thing...

[Mcffee]

Did the junta already announced the new barfines for foreigners?

[outboard]

It doesn't matter where it happens. It's always wrong to charge more based on nationality.

so you think it would be fair to charge Thais 10 times what they are being charged?

that would make the national parks unaffordable for most Thais

No, and nothing in my post indicates that...nothing at all.

Charge one price for all is what I said.

There is no reason that anyone should pay more because of their nationality.

None at all.

Actually everything in your post does , however you are so focused on racism that you are not reading what my post said , which was charge them the farang price which would mean everyone was paying the same, no discrimination according to you , except then Thais would be excluded from national parks through a pricing policy.

sometimes charging everyone the same price, or treating everyone the same is actually discrimination because it disadvantages a certain group of people.

can the majority of foreigners in Thailand afford to regularly visit a national park and pay 400 Baht ?

can the majority of Thai's in Thailand afford to regularly visit a national park and pay 400 Baht ?

Human Rights Commission Victoria website says-:

Indirect discrimination occurs when an unreasonable requirement, condition or practice is imposed that disadvantages a person or group because of a personal characteristic.

[Mcffee]

'tenfold' show that it's just senseless symbol-politics by some official who hates foreigners. This seems a hate campaign against foreigners.

Link: Thailand and its Lack of Colonialism

Edited February 5, 2015 by Mcffee

[ttthailand]

I have been to perhaps 20 or more Thai parks and have found most not worth my time. You walk up a hill along a river to find a 25 foot high water fall, SO !!! Along the way there is some trash and a few stands selling water for twice the normal price. Seen one you seen them all.

Temples are about the same. After a few they all start looking the same.

If the family wants to go I will go but only for them. I also normally show my drivers lic and not a problem but a few have insisted I pay... The last time it happened the gf changed her mind and we walked away. She was the one who was upset not me... She said it is not fair... I love this girl

Horses for courses chap.

Sounds like the countryside and cultural history aren't really your cup of tea - what with your time being so valuable maybe a trip to Disneyland and a burger is more your thing...

now that's worth paying for

[ttthailand]

I have visited parks in the US, yellow stone and similar and they would be worth many times more than anything here. I mean really...there is hardly anything special or exciting in any of the ones I have seen in Thailand. If you dis agree tell me where because I really want to know. Perhaps some city folk never really seen much and a few trees and a little water fall excites them... To each their own... Live and let live

Having said all that ... I have traveled recently to Chiang Rai and drove all over the the mountain roads and visited the hill tribes but I didn't pay anything but the gas for my car. There were a few beautiful mountain view worth a revisit

[tomacht8]

F..k the parks.
But that learns others to do the same.
... to charge (10 times) more.
This double price mentality will spread and scatter in the normal live.
To pay for water, food, transportation, etc a special foreigners white - black, long nose price.

That is discriminatory.

[outboard]

F..k the parks.

But that learns others to do the same.

... to charge (10 times) more.

This double price mentality will spread and scatter in the normal live.

To pay for water, food, transportation, etc a special foreigners white - black, long nose price.

That is discriminatory.

would it be discriminatory to charge for water, food, transportation such a price that only rich foreigners could pay effectively excluding locals from being able to eat, drink or go anywhere ?

Discrimination means excluding a person or group from something through actions.

No farang is being excluded here.

They are not being charged such an amount that they could not afford it.

the simple measure of discrimination is -: Is anyone being disadvantaged ?

If you are in such a pathetic way that as a foreigner you cant afford $15 entry fee to a national park, then you need to head home

That is NOT discrimination

[stickylies]

Just discussed this issue with my good female, educated Thai friend (not gf). Her spontaneous/initial remark/comment: "It's like that all over the world right ?" (file under brainwashing). My reply: No, it's not. Not at all. Where I come from it's forbidden by law. Everyone pays the same price except for students and retired folks, no matter what country they come from. Yes, 60+ Thai will pay less than non-60 native folks, aha!

My point being: Thai people don't know, period. They have not been abroad and if they did, they did it in some organised Thai tour ripping THEM off (as they don't know). Ripping off is endemic here. Charging people too much is how this country survives. Ripping off its own people, 24/7.

But, one cannot say this loudly. Nooooooooo. One should be grengjai, smile [deny the ignorance] and keep one's friends stupid and uninformed.

SAD feudal state

[stickylies]

If you are in such a pathetic way that as a foreigner you cant afford $15 entry fee to a national park, then you need to head home

you still don't get it right?

oh well, u the man.............

[tomacht8]

F..k the parks.

But that learns others to do the same.

... to charge (10 times) more.

This double price mentality will spread and scatter in the normal live.

To pay for water, food, transportation, etc a special foreigners white - black, long nose price.

That is discriminatory.

would it be discriminatory to charge for water, food, transportation such a price that only rich foreigners could pay effectively excluding locals from being able to eat, drink or go anywhere ?

Discrimination means excluding a person or group from something through actions.

No farang is being excluded here.

They are not being charged such an amount that they could not afford it.

the simple measure of discrimination is -: Is anyone being disadvantaged ?

If you are in such a pathetic way that as a foreigner you cant afford $15 entry fee to a national park, then you need to head home

That is NOT discrimination

I wish you a lot of money in your life.

There are also many european students who have long saved for their S-E Asia journey.

They would maybe like to visit many parks.

But they are not so rich.

Maybe they are disadvantaged?

[outboard]

Just discussed this issue with my good female, educated Thai friend (not gf). Her spontaneous/initial remark/comment: "It's like that all over the world right ?" (file under brainwashing). My reply: No, it's not. Not at all. Where I come from it's forbidden by law. Everyone pays the same price except for students and retired folks, no matter what country they come from. Yes, 60+ Thai will pay less than non-60 native folks, aha!

My point being: Thai people don't know, period. They have not been abroad and if they did, they did it in some organised Thai tour ripping THEM off (as they don't know). Ripping off is endemic here. Charging people too much is how this country survives. Ripping off its own people, 24/7.

But, one cannot say this loudly. Nooooooooo. One should be grengjai, smile [deny the ignorance] and keep one's friends stupid and uninformed.

SAD feudal state

several people have said, including myself, that there are discounts for locals in other countries, refer to post #521 for a closer definition of anti-discrimination laws, they are not what you think they are.

As for "They have not been abroad" are you now going to call the Australian government racist because a Thai needs to apply for a visa, prove they can support themselves, and prove they have reason to leave Australia before it will be granted, where as an Australian, just needs to jump on a plane and is granted a 30 day visa on arrival in Thailand ?

[stickylies]

I can say this for sure.

The national park on Koh Lanta is a giant waste of money and I will never go there again... as there was not one single animal in the entire park, run down pathway and very expensive Caterpillar equipment, most of it very new, sitting and rotting... along with 25 thai park employees laying around doing nothing.

I can afford to pay more, but the parks here are worthless and not even worth the 20 baht I often pay with my DL. Better to just find a spot in the forest and bushwhack your way around.

More and more I am thinking about not living here full time anymore... what is the sense?

I agree, in general. The parks are crap. Watching water falling off some rock is considered "SANOUK" and "TAMACHAAT" here while it's just watching gravity doing its work. (Gravi-what?!). It's all about jumping on the same bandwagon: some mediocre waterfall, some mediocre hill (touted: mountain), some minor once-were-hill-tribe (forbidden to preserve their own culture/language)... Long-gone-nostalgia.

1 bloody teak tree who survived ages of brainless logging (literally ONE!!! i don't make this up!!!) is considered national park (in Mae Sariang) and 10 park guards will be "watching" that very tree from their "ranger houses". 5555. My morning excrements are more authentic/exciting than any park here but 10 rangers need to be paid and farang will pay for them

Edited February 5, 2015 by stickylies

[balo]

I have just been on a short break touring, with my Thai wife and some other family members, from the border crossing at Myanmar up to the waterfalls and dams in Erawan National park Kanchanaburi, down to Kaeng Krachan National park Phetchaburi, only paying Thai price using my Thai drivers licence. Had a great trip with some fabulous views.

Don't knock it till you try it, Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it, Yes, look at the prices for attractions in the west, man made not nature made. should they have to pay it, well someone has to help with the maintenance/ upkeep of these places. would they get moor tourists if it was cheaper, I don't think so. really what is 400 baht as a part of a 100,000 baht holiday.

The point here is that most of the parks are in remote locations where you won't find too many tourists , but you will find many expats with their thai wifes and families, wanting to spend the day in the park . Many of those people are on low pensions so 400 baht would actually mean something. It's also unfair to hard working expats, like teachers on a thai salary .

If only 100 foreigners visited that park last year I would not be surprised that 80% of them are foreigners living here and not tourists.

Edited February 5, 2015 by balo

[stickylies]

Just discussed this issue with my good female, educated Thai friend (not gf). Her spontaneous/initial remark/comment: "It's like that all over the world right ?" (file under brainwashing). My reply: No, it's not. Not at all. Where I come from it's forbidden by law. Everyone pays the same price except for students and retired folks, no matter what country they come from. Yes, 60+ Thai will pay less than non-60 native folks, aha!

My point being: Thai people don't know, period. They have not been abroad and if they did, they did it in some organised Thai tour ripping THEM off (as they don't know). Ripping off is endemic here. Charging people too much is how this country survives. Ripping off its own people, 24/7.

But, one cannot say this loudly. Nooooooooo. One should be grengjai, smile [deny the ignorance] and keep one's friends stupid and uninformed.

SAD feudal state

several people have said, including myself, that there are discounts for locals in other countries, refer to post #521 for a closer definition of anti-discrimination laws, they are not what you think they are.

As for "They have not been abroad" are you now going to call the Australian government racist because a Thai needs to apply for a visa, prove they can support themselves, and prove they have reason to leave Australia before it will be granted, where as an Australian, just needs to jump on a plane and is granted a 30 day visa on arrival in Thailand ?

sorry dude but you are missing the point. the visa thing is another story and i don't agree with it (just fyi). pls stick to OP: farang paying 10x local price. can u, na khrap?

[Shadychris]

I have just been on a short break touring, with my Thai wife and some other family members, from the border crossing at Myanmar up to the waterfalls and dams in Erawan National park Kanchanaburi, down to Kaeng Krachan National park Phetchaburi, only paying Thai price using my Thai drivers licence. Had a great trip with some fabulous views.

Don't knock it till you try it, Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it, Yes, look at the prices for attractions in the west, man made not nature made. should they have to pay it, well someone has to help with the maintenance/ upkeep of these places. would they get moor tourists if it was cheaper, I don't think so. really what is 400 baht as a part of a 100,000 baht holiday.

The point here is that most of the parks are in remote locations where you won't find too many tourists , but you will find many expats with their thai wifes and families, wanting to spend the day in the park . Many of those people are on low pensions so 400 baht would actually mean something. It's also unfair to hard working expats, like teachers on a thai salary .

If only 100 foreigners visited that park last year I would not be surprised that 80% of them are foreigners living here and not tourists.

tired of writing this - see post # 512

[stickylies]

several people have said, including myself, that there are discounts for locals in other countries

sure, in my hometown i can go to city-and-county-owned musea for FREE. ... ...

..

...

for free? nah, i pay city-and-county taxes for them, yearly taxes, which i must pay, no escape, even if I never visit those musea.

in the same city/county ANYONE who's student or 60+ gets discounts. no matter what country they come from. and as i have travelled in many EUROPEAN countries, i can tell that these discounts apply to MOST european countries.

[ttthailand]

I have just been on a short break touring, with my Thai wife and some other family members, from the border crossing at Myanmar up to the waterfalls and dams in Erawan National park Kanchanaburi, down to Kaeng Krachan National park Phetchaburi, only paying Thai price using my Thai drivers licence. Had a great trip with some fabulous views.

Don't knock it till you try it, Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it, Yes, look at the prices for attractions in the west, man made not nature made. should they have to pay it, well someone has to help with the maintenance/ upkeep of these places. would they get moor tourists if it was cheaper, I don't think so. really what is 400 baht as a part of a 100,000 baht holiday.

The point here is that most of the parks are in remote locations where you won't find too many tourists , but you will find many expats with their thai wifes and families, wanting to spend the day in the park . Many of those people are on low pensions so 400 baht would actually mean something. It's also unfair to hard working expats, like teachers on a thai salary .

If only 100 foreigners visited that park last year I would not be surprised that 80% of them are foreigners living here and not tourists.

tired of writing this - see post # 512

So you really believe that if you live here and have a drivers lic and year visa you can go for free or pay Thai prices.... Dream on !!! Sometimes yes and sometimes no... TIT... Nothing is ever the same in two places. I have been to too many places and all will want to charge you at first. Some will let it go and only charge Thai price but others will still want farang price no matter what you show.... Unless you bring your work permit. That seems to be their fallback " you have to have work permit" !

I know first hand so don't even go there in suggesting otherwise !!!

[outboard]

Just discussed this issue with my good female, educated Thai friend (not gf). Her spontaneous/initial remark/comment: "It's like that all over the world right ?" (file under brainwashing). My reply: No, it's not. Not at all. Where I come from it's forbidden by law. Everyone pays the same price except for students and retired folks, no matter what country they come from. Yes, 60+ Thai will pay less than non-60 native folks, aha!

My point being: Thai people don't know, period. They have not been abroad and if they did, they did it in some organised Thai tour ripping THEM off (as they don't know). Ripping off is endemic here. Charging people too much is how this country survives. Ripping off its own people, 24/7.

But, one cannot say this loudly. Nooooooooo. One should be grengjai, smile [deny the ignorance] and keep one's friends stupid and uninformed.

SAD feudal state

several people have said, including myself, that there are discounts for locals in other countries, refer to post #521 for a closer definition of anti-discrimination laws, they are not what you think they are.

As for "They have not been abroad" are you now going to call the Australian government racist because a Thai needs to apply for a visa, prove they can support themselves, and prove they have reason to leave Australia before it will be granted, where as an Australian, just needs to jump on a plane and is granted a 30 day visa on arrival in Thailand ?

sorry dude but you are missing the point. the visa thing is another story and i don't agree with it (just fyi). pls stick to OP: farang paying 10x local price. can u, na khrap?

mate you have missed every point and I was directly responding to your post

the fact you don't agree with it only exacerbates your lack of understanding of real world issues and what discrimination is.

change they way you are thinking about the park issue to the "normal price" is 400 Baht and locals get a 90% discount

Now would it be fair to charge the locals full price(400 Baht)?

could they afford it ?

would they be excluded from the parks through pricing policy?

that is discrimination, charging different prices is not discrimination, there is no farang in Thailand being excluded from the parks by a $15 entry fee but the majority of Thais would be excluded if they had to pay 400 Baht

Indirect discrimination occurs when an unreasonable requirement, condition or practice is imposed that disadvantages a person or group because of a personal characteristic.

Edited February 5, 2015 by outboard

[Shadychris]

I have just been on a short break touring, with my Thai wife and some other family members, from the border crossing at Myanmar up to the waterfalls and dams in Erawan National park Kanchanaburi, down to Kaeng Krachan National park Phetchaburi, only paying Thai price using my Thai drivers licence. Had a great trip with some fabulous views.

Don't knock it till you try it, Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it, Yes, look at the prices for attractions in the west, man made not nature made. should they have to pay it, well someone has to help with the maintenance/ upkeep of these places. would they get moor tourists if it was cheaper, I don't think so. really what is 400 baht as a part of a 100,000 baht holiday.

The point here is that most of the parks are in remote locations where you won't find too many tourists , but you will find many expats with their thai wifes and families, wanting to spend the day in the park . Many of those people are on low pensions so 400 baht would actually mean something. It's also unfair to hard working expats, like teachers on a thai salary .

If only 100 foreigners visited that park last year I would not be surprised that 80% of them are foreigners living here and not tourists.

tired of writing this - see post # 512

So you really believe that if you live here and have a drivers lic and year visa you can go for free or pay Thai prices.... Dream on !!! Sometimes yes and sometimes no... TIT... Nothing is ever the same in two places. I have been to too many places and all will want to charge you at first. Some will let it go and only charge Thai price but others will still want farang price no matter what you show.... Unless you bring your work permit. That seems to be their fallback " you have to have work permit" !

I know first hand so don't even go there in suggesting otherwise !!!

I didn't say anything about a driving licence or long stay visitors trying to blag it with 1 year visas. I said resident, ie meaning with a red book .

I will admit that some places will 'try it on' at first, but I usually find a bit of friendly banter (in Thai) along with a smile gets the required result, not always I grant you but most times. Attitude and having a grasp of the local language counts for a lot when dealing with Thais, probably much the same as it does anywhere in the world...

[Shadychris]

mate you have missed every point and I was directly responding to your post

the fact you don't agree with it only exacerbates your lack of understanding of real world issues and what discrimination is.

change they way you are thinking about the park issue to the "normal price" is 400 Baht and locals get a 90% discount

Now would it be fair to charge the locals full price(400 Baht)?

could they afford it ?

would they be excluded from the parks through pricing policy?

that is discrimination, charging different prices is not discrimination, there is no farang in Thailand being excluded from the parks by a $15 entry fee but the majority of Thais would be excluded if they had to pay 400 Baht

Indirect discrimination occurs when an unreasonable requirement, condition or practice is imposed that disadvantages a person or group because of a personal characteristic.

change they way you are thinking about the park issue to the "normal price" is 400 Baht and locals get a 90% discount

Don't hold your breath on that one Outboard, unless you are fond of the colour purple... ;-)

You can lead a horse to the water.... but you cant always make it drink.

[cumgranosalum]

10x is too much, but I'm not convinced by the argument that everyone should pay the same.

Firstly, the national parks are a Thai's natural heritage (as are the temples), but a foreigner's exotic, often once-in-a-lifetime travel experience. Those are culturally, qualitatively, and economically different things.

Secondly, GDP per capita in the UK (for example) is 3.7 times higher than Thailand, therefore Brits should arguably pay 3.7x more (and Thais, when they visit Britain should pay 3.7x less, though of course they do not, so they are the ones who should feel more aggrieved).

In any case, the endemic green-tailed sunbird at the summit marsh of Doi Inthanon is priceless. All those who say to hell with the national parks should get a pair of binoculars, otherwise all you will see is leaves.

Working pricing out based on the average income of countries is quite arbitrary and absurd. - you've just picked this out of a hat.

you could advocate market forces, the value of the asset being visited, whatever.

the truth is if Thailand doesn't want to further tarnish their international reputation they should drop 2 tier pricing...period.

BTW - attractions like National arks don't get enough income from these charges to make any significant change in income. Their funding is governmental and that is the main source in most countries.

these decisions are made without research or consultation by people who behave as if got their job not through merit but through nepotism. they simply aren't qualified to do the job in the first place and in a few months it will be necessary to abandon the scheme as they did before, but what they can't abandon if the damage caused to their international reputation.