Jordanian pilot burned alive by IS

[Steely Dan]

Well it looks like we do have a theological debate between savages. ISIS ruled it is permissible to burn an infidel to death, whereas Al-Azhar university rule that it is not and the perpetrators should be crucified or have opposing hand and foot cut off. As Daniel Greenfield observed, this is not a debate about moderating Islam, only about who is top dog.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/02/al-azhar-sheikh-killers-of-pilot-should-be-crucified-or-have-their-limbs-amputated

[geriatrickid]

Let this serve as a lesson to those who demand of others to negotiate "peace" with the kindred spirits of ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizbollah and Iran. Yes, I know they are not the same, and that they sometimes argue amongst themselves. Unfortunately, their core belief system and strategies are the same.

[Grouse]

Note that not one muslim has raised his head above the parapet!

I tell you, they're all the same.....

Enough

Ship them all to the middle East

Who cares which country? Saudi? Iran? Pakistan? All the same.....

Basta

The executed pilot was a muslim and so is his family and the vast majority of his country.

Your simplistic and rather ignorant analysis doesn't really help.

On the contrary, My simplistic view that there are no good muslims is correct.

The Jordanians immediately hanged two prisoners.

The Egyptians are calling for Crucifixion.

I care not whether my analysis is helpful or not

It helps me vent my anger without taking it out directly on the locals.....

[boomerangutang]

Here's a solution: all the countries in the M.East, including Israel, simply bow to the demands of ISIS. One big Caliphate, everyone's united, no more problems.

[MJP]

Not too far out was I, regarding 'strategy.

Islamic State: MPs urge UK to step up fight against jihadists

'No clear strategy'

IS has taken control of a large number of areas and been behind acts of brutality, including the beheadings of British hostages.

The report said IS was the "most significant threat" to international security to have emerged from the Middle East "in decades".

The MPs said the UK "can and should be playing a greater role" in fighting it, adding that "officials, ministers, and officers have failed to set out a clear military strategy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31136504

Edited February 5, 2015 by MJP

[ABCer]

Total obliteration of ISIS is the only way.

Beautiful words and good intentions.

How do you achieve it is another question.

How do you obliterate them without obliterating 'good innocent Muslims' all around them?

How do you separate the ones who burn alive from the ones who only behead, and those from the ones who only blow people up, and those from the ones who only provide safe houses, and those from only violent demonstrators, and those from just silent non-participants, etc. etc. etc.???

And how on Earth are you going to separate the silent ones from dormant ones?

Stop blaming Muslims for being Muslims!

There is no need to obliterate or exterminate any of them!

Just send them all back to their origins!

And, please! do not talk to me about their Nationality or Passports.

And if some of your Politicians tell you it is Politically not Correct - send them to any Muslim country of their choice. Or better still put them in jail for bringing this Religious War unto your head.

[dragonfly94]

wishful thinking i'm afraid, the UK govt will not even ban burkas in public, tackle FGM, allows sharia courts and turned a blind eye to the rape of 1400 kids. What hope is there of these gutless bastards crippled by pc dogma doing anything other than talk? Oh yeah they did talk about giving returning ISIS fighters anti social behavior orders! and the stupid bitch that suggested it is still a minister.

[ABCer]

AMMAN, Jordan (AP) - Government spokesman says Jordan executed 2 prisoners after IS killing of pilot.

Does AMMAN, Jordan (AP) Government spokesman really believe their execution is affecting IS in any negative way?

They could give a shiite!

[MJP]

AMMAN, Jordan (AP) - Government spokesman says Jordan executed 2 prisoners after IS killing of pilot.

Does AMMAN, Jordan (AP) Government spokesman really believe their execution is affecting IS in any negative way?

They could give a shiite!

Been my point all along. Strategy required.

[Morch]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

Well, so far seems it managed to drive away one coalition member

United Arab Emirates, Key U.S. Ally in ISIS Effort, Disengaged in December

WASHINGTON — The United Arab Emirates, a crucial Arab ally in the American-led coalition against the Islamic State, suspended airstrikes against the Sunni extremist group in December, citing fears for its pilots’ safety after a Jordanian pilot was captured and who the extremists said had been burned to death, United States officials said Tuesday.

The United Arab Emirates are demanding that the Pentagon improve its search-and-rescue efforts, including the use of V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, in northern Iraq, closer to the battleground, instead of basing the missions in Kuwait, administration officials said. The country’s pilots will not rejoin the fight until the Ospreys, which take off and land like helicopters but fly like planes, are put in place in northern Iraq.

The United Arab Emirates notified the United States Central Command that they were suspending flights, administration officials said, after First Lt. Moaz al-Kasasbeh of the Jordanian Air Force was captured when his plane went down near Raqqa, Syria. A senior American military official said Islamic State militants “grabbed” Lieutenant Kasasbeh “within just a few minutes.” He added, “There was no time for us to engage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/middleeast/united-arab-emirates-key-us-ally-in-isis-effort-disengaged-in-december.html

[Morch]

Barbaric indeed. But Jordan seems to have a suitable response, they have said they will execute all ISIL prisoners at dawn today!

Hopefully the will do it the same way as their prisoner died!

Hopefully not. To reduce themselves to that level of barbarism does not help the cause. In fact, don't kill them. Lead by example and hopefully it will turn Muslims away from extremism.

Just bathe them in pigs blood, fitting non violent punishment.

It would take any Imam half-worth his salt no time to come up with a theological argument why it doesn't count. Might no be a prize winner in any proper debate, but not an issue when dealing with zealots. It would, however, manage to enrage many of the Muslims in general, with very little to show for it.

[Morch]

Could this be the spark which ignites a proper full scale middle east war? One where the west sits back and watches as the savages tear each other apart?

No.

There is no real unity between various Middle Eastern countries, tribes, sects etc. If there was, they would have been fighting this already, by now. Each takes care of number one first.

[Morch]

I would think that this act of murdering a Muslim, and in such a barbaric way, is far more egregious than say the printing of some cartoons. Perhaps there will be some lonewolves targeting ISIS members....? I wonder.

I'd settle for mass protests, but that's probably asking too much as it is.

[Morch]

My God, what a bunch of psychopaths. Do they have a school that they attend to learn cruel and demeaning ways of killing people?

Well, there was a poll of sorts. Seriously. People posted all manner of twisted ways to kill the captured pilot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/isis-polls-twitter-for-gruesome-suggestions-of-how-to-kill-jordanian-pilot-9949550.html

[Morch]

What possible difference has such knee jerk counter-reciprocity made?

Jordan executes convicted jihadists after pilot's death

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31124900

All this does is justify the barbarous act in the minds of IS sympathizers, feeds the flames of recruitment.

Again! Where's the strategy? If there was a strategy to conquer IS and what it stands for there would not be such knee jerk reactions.

I believe this was mostly done for the benefit of the home crowd. The king got a lot of flack locally for not getting their boy back alive.

[chooka]

Barbaric indeed. But Jordan seems to have a suitable response, they have said they will execute all ISIL prisoners at dawn today!

Hopefully the will do it the same way as their prisoner died!

Hopefully not. To reduce themselves to that level of barbarism does not help the cause. In fact, don't kill them. Lead by example and hopefully it will turn Muslims away from extremism.

Just bathe them in pigs blood, fitting non violent punishment.

It would take any Imam half-worth his salt no time to come up with a theological argument why it doesn't count. Might no be a prize winner in any proper debate, but not an issue when dealing with zealots. It would, however, manage to enrage many of the Muslims in general, with very little to show for it.

My apologies for offending the barbaric murdering muslims. We keep apologising to them and they increase thier murderous barbaric acts.

[Morch]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

MJP, you are right... but you are wrong.

Kind words cost nothing but they are worth nothing as well.

Unfortunately it is the end of the Western civilization that is heralded not Islamic extremism.

There is no Islamic extremism as such. There is Islam. And it is on the move. And it is in our midst.

West cannot fight Islam in its midst. West cannot fight Islam's ruthlessness armed with its pissweak ideology. West cannot get rid of its ideology.

This will be its undoing. There is no inevitability in the West succumbing to Islam but it will. Because it is weak. I am truly sorry.

It's actually long been my fear that this is the case. However, I suspect ISIS will cause Islam to reconsider the way it values human life, the rights of women and children.

Other than that we always have nuclear weapons.

No, my friend. No nukes will help the West.

Paris, London, Berlin, New-York, Moscow, Jerusalem can not nuke Muslims in their midst.

This is the main point! Is it so difficult to understand?

Besides, where did you get the idea that Islam values human life?

As long as their faith is advanced - they do not care how many lives it will cost on both sides.

The West is doomed! You have just confirmed my point!

You are mentioning nukes, without hesitation - but the idea of simply sending them back is more abhorrent to you and your Leaders!

The West is doomed. It doomed itself by its own ideology. Have a quick and easy trip to Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTMXteZokXs

[Morch]

Barbaric indeed. But Jordan seems to have a suitable response, they have said they will execute all ISIL prisoners at dawn today!

Hopefully the will do it the same way as their prisoner died!

Hopefully not. To reduce themselves to that level of barbarism does not help the cause. In fact, don't kill them. Lead by example and hopefully it will turn Muslims away from extremism.

Just bathe them in pigs blood, fitting non violent punishment.

It would take any Imam half-worth his salt no time to come up with a theological argument why it doesn't count. Might no be a prize winner in any proper debate, but not an issue when dealing with zealots. It would, however, manage to enrage many of the Muslims in general, with very little to show for it.

My apologies for offending the barbaric murdering muslims. We keep apologising to them and they increase thier murderous barbaric acts.

This is not about offending or not offending anyone - its about nothing being gained from this. It will not deter IS and it will bolster their recruitment efforts.

[Morch]

What possible difference has such knee jerk counter-reciprocity made?

Jordan executes convicted jihadists after pilot's death

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31124900

All this does is justify the barbarous act in the minds of IS sympathizers, feeds the flames of recruitment.

Again! Where's the strategy? If there was a strategy to conquer IS and what it stands for there would not be such knee jerk reactions.

No knee jerk they deserved to be killed, it's just a shame they waited so long.

Bullet between the eye on capture is the way to go.

Would you sooner she spends time behind bar crocheting?

Too simplistic.

Whether these particular individuals already in captivity are alive or dead makes no odds. But in publicly killing them in response to the murder of the pilot simply fans the flames of IS recruitment and further escalation.

IS will not care that these individuals are now dead, in fact it plays into their hands once again. They do kill their own with total disregard in any case.

It's becoming worryingly obvious there is no strategy or global co-operation on strategy with regard to the IS threat.

"I'm so worried". You sound like Obama.

The world LOVED to HATE Bush.

Just can't bring our little pathetic liberal hearts to mouth one bad word about a liberal, black president that couldn't beat his way out of a wet paper bag though can we?

Nah, we'll just be "worried" and "Troubled", and wring our hands.

Obama is a wimp.

==============

What would be cool is if King Abdullah got off his ass & did something on his own without waiting for some Holy Hand of Washington to say it's OK to do it.

What would you suggest Jordan do, considering its resources and domestic political situation?

[hawker9000]

Just bathe them in pigs blood, fitting non violent punishment.

It would take any Imam half-worth his salt no time to come up with a theological argument why it doesn't count. Might no be a prize winner in any proper debate, but not an issue when dealing with zealots. It would, however, manage to enrage many of the Muslims in general, with very little to show for it.

My apologies for offending the barbaric murdering muslims. We keep apologising to them and they increase thier murderous barbaric acts.

This is not about offending or not offending anyone - its about nothing being gained from this. It will not deter IS and it will bolster their recruitment efforts.

Oh, I don't know. The two that Jordan executed won't be contributing anything further to the gene pool. That's something. And I don't think IS recruitment efforts will actually be affected the least little bit one way or the other. However little you think is gained, we know for sure much less is gained by any effort to negotiate, compromise or reason with these animals. It's like trying to negotiate with the shark that's already bitten your four times.

[Morch]

It is not that the struggle against IS (or any other reincarnations of Islamic extremism) cannot be won, more that it cannot be won by the West (disregarding Arab/Muslim counties involvement for the moment) as it is today. Simply put, the Western scope of freedoms, liberties and rights afforded to Westerners (and as applied to inhabitants of other countries) does not sit well with the concept of total war. This pertains both to countries relinquishing their respective control over intelligence, legal and military efforts (to a point where a wholly unified stand is virtually unattainable), and to employing extreme measures and tactics.

The West have the resources to deal with the IS issue, but in doing so effectively it may come about that the victor will not be quite the West we know today. It is not necessarily that, as some fear, this will materialize by the advent of totalitarian regimes. Democracy is not a black and white thing, but one of shades and variations. I find that a better question would be how to counter IS without losing too much ground on some of the things we all take for granted most days.

There are quite a lot of things which could be effective by strict enforcement of existing laws (which mostly bears on immigration, propaganda, recruitment efforts and financing). Not quite up to the EU ideals, but it is what it is. As for armchair generals calling for carpet bombings, advanced weaponry in the form of pig's blood and nukes - get a grip. Carpet bombing is hardly useful against a terrorist organization, even one trying to claim being a state. The pig's blood nonsense was addressed earlier, and nukes got the tendency to be uncontainable. The truth is any attempt to physically destroy IS will be a long one, there are no magic solutions. Whether the West cares to deploy troops or not is another matter - if a greater measure of ruthlessness is allowed for, this is not strictly necessary.

[Morch]

It would take any Imam half-worth his salt no time to come up with a theological argument why it doesn't count. Might no be a prize winner in any proper debate, but not an issue when dealing with zealots. It would, however, manage to enrage many of the Muslims in general, with very little to show for it.

My apologies for offending the barbaric murdering muslims. We keep apologising to them and they increase thier murderous barbaric acts.

This is not about offending or not offending anyone - its about nothing being gained from this. It will not deter IS and it will bolster their recruitment efforts.

Oh, I don't know. The two that Jordan executed won't be contributing anything further to the gene pool. That's something. And I don't think IS recruitment efforts will actually be affected the least little bit one way or the other. However little you think is gained, we know for sure much less is gained by any effort to negotiate, compromise or reason with these animals. It's like trying to negotiate with the shark that's already bitten your four times.

Not sure where in my posts there was any mention of negotiating with IS, and no issues with executing the prisoners.

My comment was purely to do with the pig's blood thing, which some seem to hold in reverence.

[Morch]

There;s nothing left to say, the pussy footing has to stop and radical actions call for radical solutions.

It's time for an all out assault on ISIS from every possible angle in whatever form it takes.

Any Brit or other nationality flying the ISIS flag, or going to fight with them or any other jihadist group should receive at the very minimum a mandatory 25 year prison sentence! The same applies with hate speech from the Muslim clerics.......25 years minimum with no parol.

ITS TIME TO TAKE THE GLOVES OFF!

I know what I would do...

You'd post clips at them?

[Morch]

This is all part of a much grander strategy -

1. To instigate conflict between Suni and Shia

We are being played as are IS and the muslim states.

I think this is a big one...After all some surely do not want a Middle East that is united in any way shape or form.

So for decades now instability there has been a goal. Not just Sunni vs Shia either

Does the Middle East, such as it is, wish to be united?

[Morch]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

If you believe that then you're sorely mistaken. ISIS will never be gone nor defeated. Unlike any terror organization before, they actually possess land now. All this talk from Jordan means nothing as UAE have already ceased air strikes because of this latest atrocity, other Arab states will soon cease fire too, watch and see. Normal Arabs haven't got the bottle for this kind of confrontation.

Hardly the first instance of a terrorist organization "actually possess land".

[Alwyn]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

If you believe that then you're sorely mistaken. ISIS will never be gone nor defeated. Unlike any terror organization before, they actually possess land now. All this talk from Jordan means nothing as UAE have already ceased air strikes because of this latest atrocity, other Arab states will soon cease fire too, watch and see. Normal Arabs haven't got the bottle for this kind of confrontation.

Hardly the first instance of a terrorist organization "actually possess land".

I guess Hamas would qualify (although UN has taken them off of their list now), maybe Khmer rouge?I don't know of a terror organisation that has just gone and taken land from a country (two countries in this case) declared it as theirs, made them selves a capital city, traded in oil and just carried on. But feel free to enlighten me

Edited February 5, 2015 by Alwyn

[ggold]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

I wonder for how long that will be. LIke most Arabs they talk the talk, but can't fight the fight! It would be nice to thing that maybe at last the Arab world is going to pick up arms against IS. But when I read the UAE stopped bombing raids because of the Jordanian pilots capture. I knew this would never happen.

Seriously what should happen is, they should build a big wall around all the arab countries and leave them to it. With a warning <deleted> with us and we will end you for good.

[F430murci]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

Well, so far seems it managed to drive away one coalition member

United Arab Emirates, Key U.S. Ally in ISIS Effort, Disengaged in December

WASHINGTON The United Arab Emirates, a crucial Arab ally in the American-led coalition against the Islamic State, suspended airstrikes against the Sunni extremist group in December, citing fears for its pilots safety after a Jordanian pilot was captured and who the extremists said had been burned to death, United States officials said Tuesday.

The United Arab Emirates are demanding that the Pentagon improve its search-and-rescue efforts, including the use of V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, in northern Iraq, closer to the battleground, instead of basing the missions in Kuwait, administration officials said. The countrys pilots will not rejoin the fight until the Ospreys, which take off and land like helicopters but fly like planes, are put in place in northern Iraq.

The United Arab Emirates notified the United States Central Command that they were suspending flights, administration officials said, after First Lt. Moaz al-Kasasbeh of the Jordanian Air Force was captured when his plane went down near Raqqa, Syria. A senior American military official said Islamic State militants grabbed Lieutenant Kasasbeh within just a few minutes. He added, There was no time for us to engage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/middleeast/united-arab-emirates-key-us-ally-in-isis-effort-disengaged-in-december.html

UAE are a bunch of Ps. No surprise there.

[FritsSikkink]

Burning someone alive is barbaric, bombing people while you are in a plane is too.

[boomerangutang]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

Well, so far seems it managed to drive away one coalition member

United Arab Emirates, Key U.S. Ally in ISIS Effort, Disengaged in December

WASHINGTON The United Arab Emirates, a crucial Arab ally in the American-led coalition against the Islamic State, suspended airstrikes against the Sunni extremist group in December, citing fears for its pilots safety after a Jordanian pilot was captured and who the extremists said had been burned to death, United States officials said Tuesday.

The United Arab Emirates are demanding that the Pentagon improve its search-and-rescue efforts, including the use of V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, in northern Iraq, closer to the battleground, instead of basing the missions in Kuwait, administration officials said. The countrys pilots will not rejoin the fight until the Ospreys, which take off and land like helicopters but fly like planes, are put in place in northern Iraq.

The United Arab Emirates notified the United States Central Command that they were suspending flights, administration officials said, after First Lt. Moaz al-Kasasbeh of the Jordanian Air Force was captured when his plane went down near Raqqa, Syria. A senior American military official said Islamic State militants grabbed Lieutenant Kasasbeh within just a few minutes. He added, There was no time for us to engage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/middleeast/united-arab-emirates-key-us-ally-in-isis-effort-disengaged-in-december.html

UAE are a bunch of Ps. No surprise there.

I wouldn't name-call UAE pilots for being cautious. Granted, it's a war, but there are humans on the line. It will be even bigger news if/when an American or European pilot gets caught.

Here's an idea for a trap: Arrange for a dummy jet (an older model fighter, perhaps) to get shot down. Arrange for a dummy to parachute down. gangs of baddies will converge on the scene. Blow 'em all away.

I had a similar trap idea, in the Iraqi or Afghan war. Have an armored troop carrier, remote operated, but with a dummy at the wheel to make it look realistic. Have it veer in to a hornets nest of baddies, as if it took a series of wrong turns. Have it stall. Bad guys will converge on it. Kaboom!