Jordanian pilot burned alive by IS

[Thongkorn]

This mans death is the worst thing i have seen, These animals where talking and singing, trying to justify what they where doing to a living person. How can God be great when he allows this despicable thing to happen.

[F430murci]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

Well, so far seems it managed to drive away one coalition member

United Arab Emirates, Key U.S. Ally in ISIS Effort, Disengaged in December

WASHINGTON The United Arab Emirates, a crucial Arab ally in the American-led coalition against the Islamic State, suspended airstrikes against the Sunni extremist group in December, citing fears for its pilots safety after a Jordanian pilot was captured and who the extremists said had been burned to death, United States officials said Tuesday.

The United Arab Emirates are demanding that the Pentagon improve its search-and-rescue efforts, including the use of V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, in northern Iraq, closer to the battleground, instead of basing the missions in Kuwait, administration officials said. The countrys pilots will not rejoin the fight until the Ospreys, which take off and land like helicopters but fly like planes, are put in place in northern Iraq.

The United Arab Emirates notified the United States Central Command that they were suspending flights, administration officials said, after First Lt. Moaz al-Kasasbeh of the Jordanian Air Force was captured when his plane went down near Raqqa, Syria. A senior American military official said Islamic State militants grabbed Lieutenant Kasasbeh within just a few minutes. He added, There was no time for us to engage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/middleeast/united-arab-emirates-key-us-ally-in-isis-effort-disengaged-in-december.html

UAE are a bunch of Ps. No surprise there.

I wouldn't name-call UAE pilots for being cautious. Granted, it's a war, but there are humans on the line. It will be even bigger news if/when an American or European pilot gets caught.

Here's an idea for a trap: Arrange for a dummy jet (an older model fighter, perhaps) to get shot down. Arrange for a dummy to parachute down. gangs of baddies will converge on the scene. Blow 'em all away.

I had a similar trap idea, in the Iraqi or Afghan war. Have an armored troop carrier, remote operated, but with a dummy at the wheel to make it look realistic. Have it veer in to a hornets nest of baddies, as if it took a series of wrong turns. Have it stall. Bad guys will converge on it. Kaboom!

Not naming calling pilots per se. I am name calling the culture in general, especially as it relates to the treatment of women, migrant workers and foreigners in general that are viewed offensive. Very thin skinned, selfish . . . I'll just stop there.

[EyesWideOpen]

From the brilliant cartoonist Stephff in Bangkok...

[snarky66]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

Edited February 5, 2015 by snarky66

[F430murci]

From the brilliant cartoonist Stephff in Bangkok...

So your point is, US citizens condemning or offended by burning the poor guy alive are bad in of themselves. Accepting that proposition as true, which it is not, you are basically saying that ISIS are so bad they actually offend the devil.

We cannot even put our worst of the worse to death through lethal injunctions without worrying and being offended that the muderous bastaards are a little uncomfortable during the process. I would say that we are on a come rely different moral plane than ISIS who executes innocent people in the most brutal and painful ways possible.

[NeverSure]

It's actually long been my fear that this is the case. However, I suspect ISIS will cause Islam to reconsider the way it values human life, the rights of women and children.

Other than that we always have nuclear weapons.

No, my friend. No nukes will help the West.

Paris, London, Berlin, New-York, Moscow, Jerusalem can not nuke Muslims in their midst.

This is the main point! Is it so difficult to understand?

Besides, where did you get the idea that Islam values human life?

As long as their faith is advanced - they do not care how many lives it will cost on both sides.

The West is doomed! You have just confirmed my point!

You are mentioning nukes, without hesitation - but the idea of simply sending them back is more abhorrent to you and your Leaders!

The West is doomed. It doomed itself by its own ideology. Have a quick and easy trip to Hell.

No, the world isn't doomed. The West in its entirety isn't doomed. Europe is doomed.

The Emperor of Japan is purported to have said that the reason he never considered invading the US was because there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

Whether he said it I don't know, but it would have been true. For all the criticism we get, my neighbors wouldn't put up with this crap. My neighborhood is safe and is surrounded by thousands of miles of other neighborhoods they couldn't get through.

People from other countries don't understand this, but 100 million armed Americans aren't going quietly.

End of.

Edited February 5, 2015 by NeverSure

[snarky66]

What kind of bothers me about all this stuff is the way Obama reacts. He seems disinterested, detached vapid vacuous. He might as well be talking about sports scores. The US needs a leader right now. I wonder where we'll find him?

[GentlemanJim]

The video is simply horrific, and ISIS look extremely well resourced! This needs a swift and ruthless response. these animals deserve no place in any form of society.

[neverdie]

It's actually long been my fear that this is the case. However, I suspect ISIS will cause Islam to reconsider the way it values human life, the rights of women and children.

Other than that we always have nuclear weapons.

No, my friend. No nukes will help the West.

Paris, London, Berlin, New-York, Moscow, Jerusalem can not nuke Muslims in their midst.

This is the main point! Is it so difficult to understand?

Besides, where did you get the idea that Islam values human life?

As long as their faith is advanced - they do not care how many lives it will cost on both sides.

The West is doomed! You have just confirmed my point!

You are mentioning nukes, without hesitation - but the idea of simply sending them back is more abhorrent to you and your Leaders!

The West is doomed. It doomed itself by its own ideology. Have a quick and easy trip to Hell.

No, the world isn't doomed. The West in its entirety isn't doomed. Europe is doomed.

The Emperor of Japan is purported to have said that the reason he never considered invading the US was because there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

Whether he said it I don't know, but it would have been true. For all the criticism we get, my neighbors wouldn't put up with this crap. My neighborhood is safe and is surrounded by thousands of miles of other neighborhoods they couldn't get through.

People from other countries don't understand this, but 100 million armed Americans aren't going quietly.

End of.

The Americans have their own type of home grown terrorism where there's daily mass shootings and murders at shopping malls and schools etc, where anyone that gets cranky can have access to a firearm and kill. Whilst it might not be in the name of Allah the results are similar...ie: dead innocent people.

Islamic extremists can concentrate their attention elsewhere.

[dragonfly94]

The Americans have their own type of home grown terrorism where there's daily mass shootings and murders at shopping malls and schools etc,

Not terrorism and nor daily, but quite rarely.

[neverdie]

The Americans have their own type of home grown terrorism where there's daily mass shootings and murders at shopping malls and schools etc,

Not terrorism and nor daily, but quite rarely.

Rarely ?

Cleary DF you are not familiar with the definition of 'Rarely' but it would seem you are familiar with the state of delusion .

[bkkjames]

Would Be interested in getting our resident apologist's views on this story and IS in general.

[Jai Dee]

One off-topic post and subsequent replies have been removed from this thread.

[Morch]

Ironically, I think ISIS will herald the end of Islamic extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31123786

"Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with the family of the martyr hero Moaz, with our people and our armed forces in this tragedy," he added. "At these difficult times it is every Jordanian's duty to stand together in the face of crises and ordeals, which will only make us stronger." - King Abdullah of Jordan.

If you believe that then you're sorely mistaken. ISIS will never be gone nor defeated. Unlike any terror organization before, they actually possess land now. All this talk from Jordan means nothing as UAE have already ceased air strikes because of this latest atrocity, other Arab states will soon cease fire too, watch and see. Normal Arabs haven't got the bottle for this kind of confrontation.

Hardly the first instance of a terrorist organization "actually possess land".

I guess Hamas would qualify (although UN has taken them off of their list now), maybe Khmer rouge?I don't know of a terror organisation that has just gone and taken land from a country (two countries in this case) declared it as theirs, made them selves a capital city, traded in oil and just carried on. But feel free to enlighten me

There's a binding and comprehensive list of terrorist organizations agreed upon by the UNGA? Or perhaps you're confusing the EU terrorism list thing? (and no, Hamas was not really taken off the list). Could cite Hezbollah (and previously in southern Lebanon, Fatah) as candidates, Boko Haram springs to mind as well.Taliban could possibly be mentioned (albeit it seems that they are now insurgents).

[Morch]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

[Morch]

It's actually long been my fear that this is the case. However, I suspect ISIS will cause Islam to reconsider the way it values human life, the rights of women and children.

Other than that we always have nuclear weapons.

No, my friend. No nukes will help the West.

Paris, London, Berlin, New-York, Moscow, Jerusalem can not nuke Muslims in their midst.

This is the main point! Is it so difficult to understand?

Besides, where did you get the idea that Islam values human life?

As long as their faith is advanced - they do not care how many lives it will cost on both sides.

The West is doomed! You have just confirmed my point!

You are mentioning nukes, without hesitation - but the idea of simply sending them back is more abhorrent to you and your Leaders!

The West is doomed. It doomed itself by its own ideology. Have a quick and easy trip to Hell.

No, the world isn't doomed. The West in its entirety isn't doomed. Europe is doomed.

The Emperor of Japan is purported to have said that the reason he never considered invading the US was because there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

Whether he said it I don't know, but it would have been true. For all the criticism we get, my neighbors wouldn't put up with this crap. My neighborhood is safe and is surrounded by thousands of miles of other neighborhoods they couldn't get through.

People from other countries don't understand this, but 100 million armed Americans aren't going quietly.

End of.

Not the Emperor, but Isoroku Yamamoto, and a misquote at that (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto).

Far as I am aware, those big big ideas about how the USA population en masse will face a hypothetical invasion is not something which was actually put to the test.

There are countries out there with larger Muslim minorities than any EU member and they do not seem to be crumbling down as such.

[Seastallion]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

You're right, and it's a reasonable view. The US does, however, have many fingers in many pies, and interests, in the region.

[Morch]

Burning someone alive is barbaric, bombing people while you are in a plane is too.

Yeah, the thing is at some point one runs out of other cheeks.

[Morch]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

You're right, and it's a reasonable view. The US does, however, have many fingers in many pies, and interests, in the region.

So do China, Russia, the EU and those countries actually constituting the Middle East.

[Steely Dan]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

The surrounding Muslim Countries may be just acting as they usually do when it comes to taking responsibility for their own situation. There is however a possibility they fear a good proportion of their own populations support ISIS, in which case there is a danger elements of their military may defect.

[Seastallion]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

You're right, and it's a reasonable view. The US does, however, have many fingers in many pies, and interests, in the region.

So do China, Russia, the EU and those countries actually constituting the Middle East.

Fair enough...I guess that's why they are all consulting in the ISIS issue.

[Morch]

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

You're right, and it's a reasonable view. The US does, however, have many fingers in many pies, and interests, in the region.

So do China, Russia, the EU and those countries actually constituting the Middle East.

Fair enough...I guess that's why they are all consulting in the ISIS issue.

Yet to see any Chinese or Russian support for operations. Considering this is happening in their back yard, contribution by most relevant Middle Eastern countries is meager. The lion's share of the effort is still borne by the USA (and to a lesser degree, other Western countries).

[hansgruber]

From a religion that condones pedophilia and beastiality, is it any surprise that they can mistreat humans this way?

[mopar71]

There is only one country that can lead the fight against these barbarians, build a coalition and put 30,000 US troops in there to wipe out this scourge. Unfortunately liberals are currently running the united states and they have no stomach for any kind of fight. They are cowards and we are deeply ashamed of them.

The surrounding Muslim countries got the troops, the equipment and the money to take care of things if they were really into it. Placing US troops on the ground will not assure a swift victory, nor the appreciation of relevant countries in the aftermath.

The surrounding Muslim Countries may be just acting as they usually do when it comes to taking responsibility for their own situation. There is however a possibility they fear a good proportion of their own populations support ISIS, in which case there is a danger elements of their military may defect.

Defect...or drop their weapons and run away like the Iraqis did.

[sir charles IV]

Wasn't creation of IS meant to division among the Arabs/Muslims so they kill each other and not us? It seems to be working albeit slowly. Let them fight each other over there so we can live in peace over here[emoji51]

[Alwyn]

Morch "There's a binding and comprehensive list of terrorist organizations agreed upon by the UNGA? Or perhaps you're confusing the EU terrorism list thing? (and no, Hamas was not really taken off the list). Could cite Hezbollah (and previously in southern Lebanon, Fatah) as candidates, Boko Haram springs to mind as well.Taliban could possibly be mentioned (albeit it seems that they are now insurgents)."

Sorry, you're wrong on just about every count in your comment. The EU has taken Hamas off of their terrorist list http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30511569 I was talking about EU, not America, Japan nor the UN who still (thankfully) accept Hamas for what it is is, a terror group! Hezbollah have not seized land in Lebanon, they're from Lebanon, formed from the old Shia block within the Lebanese society. Boko Haram, again they have not seized any land and formed their own cities etc, they're from Nigeria and based in Nigeria although they do go and kill and kidnap in Chad and of course just a couple of weeks ago, Cameroon. Fatah? They're a policital party based in Ramalah!! Founded by Arafat in the 50's as a political movement.

[Morch]

Morch "There's a binding and comprehensive list of terrorist organizations agreed upon by the UNGA? Or perhaps you're confusing the EU terrorism list thing? (and no, Hamas was not really taken off the list). Could cite Hezbollah (and previously in southern Lebanon, Fatah) as candidates, Boko Haram springs to mind as well.Taliban could possibly be mentioned (albeit it seems that they are now insurgents)."

Sorry, you're wrong on just about every count in your comment. The EU has taken Hamas off of their terrorist list http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30511569 I was talking about EU, not America, Japan nor the UN who still (thankfully) accept Hamas for what it is is, a terror group! Hezbollah have not seized land in Lebanon, they're from Lebanon, formed from the old Shia block within the Lebanese society. Boko Haram, again they have not seized any land and formed their own cities etc, they're from Nigeria and based in Nigeria although they do go and kill and kidnap in Chad and of course just a couple of weeks ago, Cameroon. Fatah? They're a policital party based in Ramalah!! Founded by Arafat in the 50's as a political movement.

I'll just copy the PM reply, if that's alright -

The EU court did not really change the Hamas's designation as a terrorist organization. It was a formal move, originating from a previous case concerning the Tamil Tigers. The restrictions on Hamas were left in place and the appeal is already in motion. The issue was mostly procedural, nothing actually changed - and when the appeal is accepted it will cement Hamas status as a terrorist organization. This was discussed in length on two previous topics.

As far as I am aware, there is no accepted and official UN designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. There is, in fact, no unified list of terrorist organizations as such, but rather several lists which pertain to specific UN resolutions. The UN is effectively cooperating with Hamas via UNRWA.

Hezbollah physically and politically control areas in southern Lebanon, often operating parallel services to the local population. Lebanese government control over south Lebanon is mostly nominal. They have not constructed their own towns and such, but effectively control some (not to mention certain areas of Beirut). IS did not set up towns as well, it took over existing settlements, towns and cities. The fact that they have access to oil got more to do with their geographical location, the Hezbollah involvement in Lebanese drug trade and smuggling operations over the Syrian border is well known. Each uses what's available.

Boko Haram did not seize any land? Is this why Nigerian government forces been fighting their battles on more and more southerly locations? Those raids where they kidnap people are just the front lines, as it were. Boko Haram being mostly Nigerian, well....by now its a good bet that the majority of IS is Iraqi and Syrian.

As for Fatah, you're talking nowadays. In the late 70' and early 80' Fatah was mostly based in southern Lebanon, which was used as grounds for attacks on northern Israel. Pretty much as Hezbollah is doing nowadays. Back then southern Lebanon was nicknamed "Fatahland".

[hawker9000]

Burning someone alive is barbaric, bombing people while you are in a plane is too.

...unless the people you're bombing happen to be the people doing the burning (or aiding or abetting or otherwise supporting or providing aid & comfort to them).

[snarky66]

Egypt & Jordan could certainly lead the charge against IS. obama in a classic lie said he was going to arm the Pashmerga. They are still waiting. The US has given them MRE'S & blankets. The US needs to be an active partner in military operations. But Barry doesn't have the stomach for it.

[Morch]

Egypt & Jordan could certainly lead the charge against IS. obama in a classic lie said he was going to arm the Pashmerga. They are still waiting. The US has given them MRE'S & blankets. The US needs to be an active partner in military operations. But Barry doesn't have the stomach for it.

Egypt got enough trouble with IS-affiliated and other Jihadi organizations in its backyard, not to mention the outlawed MB. Not that close, geographically, to the main fighting areas. The USA needs to tread carefully when dealing with the Kurds, as it still needs the cooperation of Turkey (airbases, border control) - such as it is. Arming the Kurds might also cause additional friction with whatever passes for Iraq these days (and which the USA still hopes to have a stake in when the fog clears). How is the USA not an active partner in military operations? It carries the lion's share of the coalition efforts.