TransAsia plane crashes in Taiwan with 58 people on board; 2 killed

[Tywais]

It declared mayday with engine flame out at 23:25.

Audio Clip - Link below to prevent embedding audio.

 http://archive-server.liveatc.net/rcss/RCSS-Twr-Feb-04-2015-0230Z.mp3

[jpinx]

From the video it appears to be in trouble before it comes into shot. It narrowly misses the buildings in a barely controlled stall -- looking like it was heading for a splashdown in the river but the stall was too much and dropped a wing just as it crossed the bridge. Rolling back to the cause of the stall will be the interesting bit. 116Knots on take-off seems low for a machine that cruises at 275 knots -- looks like wet weather - was the runway a bit waterlogged? What was the weight at take-off? Maybe bird ingestion caused engine flame-out?

some references ..

http://planes.findthebest.com/l/123/ATR-72-600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/555876-transasia-water-2.html

Good luck to the survivors and rescuers, and condolences to the families of those that perished...

Edited February 4, 2015 by jpinx

[Bpuumike]

 

At least 9 killed when TransAsia plane crashes into Taiwan river

TAIPEI (Reuters) - At least nine people were killed and dozens were unaccounted for after a Taiwanese TransAsia Airways plane with 58 passengers and crew on board crash-landed in a Taipei river on Wednesday, officials and domestic media said.

Dramatic pictures taken by a motorist and posted on Twitter showed the planed cartwheeling over a motorway close to the airport soon after the turboprop ATR 72-600 aircraft took off.

Television footage showed passengers wearing life jackets wading and swimming clear of the river.

Emergency rescue officials in inflatable boats crowded around the partially submerged fuselage, lying on its side in the river, trying to help those on board.

The civilian aeronautic authority said soon after the crash that two people had been killed. Taiwanese television later reported the death toll had risen to nine.

The aeronautic authority reported 16 people had been rescued, meaning as many as 33 people were still missing.

Other Taiwanese government authorities said the plane was carrying 58 passengers and crew, including 31 tourists from mainland China.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/At-least-9-killed-when-TransAsia-plane-crashes-int-30253361.html

-- The Nation 2015-02-04

Reuters got that wrong. The plane wasn't at all "cartwheeling over a motorway". It was coming down, tipped over on the port side, in a fully developed (wing) stall.

The starboard props didn't seem to be turning. Sort of lucky or well done that he cleared the apartment blocks.

[tonypace02]

they have some very ropey domestic airlines , I used to have to fly From Taipei to Tainan every week and it was a white knuckle ride. The domestic airport is worse than Hong Kongs old one, Right in the middle of the city and you can see people cleaning their teeth as you fly past their window

One airline was called Far-eastern air travel or FAT air , I kid you not

In the 60s I flew May Guanchi Air to Kaohsiung about once a month.

[Tywais]

Source Flightradar24

[Tywais]

Will need to click to view on YouTube as is geoblocked. Some Drone views in it.

[gemguy]

That is scary.

Goes to prove that airplanes do not glide to the ground when something fails.

Fortunately they hit water instead of full impact with the bridge.

May they rest in peace.

Edited February 4, 2015 by gemguy

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

they have some very ropey domestic airlines , I used to have to fly From Taipei to Tainan every week and it was a white knuckle ride. The domestic airport is worse than Hong Kongs old one, Right in the middle of the city and you can see people cleaning their teeth as you fly past their window

One airline was called Far-eastern air travel or FAT air , I kid you not

In the 60s I flew May chGuani Air to Kaohsiung about once a month.

China air had a Jumbo go down Kaohshing to honk kong about 2002ish I think, snapped in half on its ascent . Having worked there for a while and witnessed their outlook on safety I tended to shy away from the Taiwanese carriers when I could, but on domestic it was FAT only

[mrtoad]

ATR's are used here, Bangkok Airways flies them on several routes including the Bangkok - Trat route which I regularly fly on.

[laislica]

From the video it appears to be in trouble before it comes into shot. It narrowly misses the buildings in a barely controlled stall -- looking like it was heading for a splashdown in the river but the stall was too much and dropped a wing just as it crossed the bridge. Rolling back to the cause of the stall will be the interesting bit. 116Knots on take-off seems low for a machine that cruises at 275 knots -- looks like wet weather - was the runway a bit waterlogged? What was the weight at take-off? Maybe bird ingestion caused engine flame-out?

some references ..

http://planes.findthebest.com/l/123/ATR-72-600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/555876-transasia-water-2.html

Good luck to the survivors and rescuers, and condolences to the families of those that perished...

You suggest a bird strike and flame out?

This plane had props.

What was the take off weight?

How well maintained was it.

In 69 an plane from Kaoshung to Taipei fell out of the sky shortly after take off.

It had reported a fuel transfer problem between tanks, had got permission to make an emergency landing at Tainan security airbase.

The fault cleared so they pressed on and after that it fell down.....

Our boss was supposed to be on that plane but someone booked to fly on the earlier plane elected to change to the second flight so our boss took his seat on the first flight. Otherwise he'd a been a gonna too.

RIP and condolences to their families.

[Nemesis7]

Bad year for the aviation industry.

[Moonlover]

Also it's been reported that the pilot was on the radio with 'Mayday Mayday' a minute before it crashed, which could indicate it could be a sudden technical problem of some kind.

From the video it appears he was having trouble clearing those tall buildings on the left and banking to avoid them suggesting power loss or reduced power.

According to the Australian News from the link provided by 'ripstanley' and repeated below. The last call was 'mayday, mayday, engine flameout'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-04/taiwan-plane-crashes-in-taipei-river-people-killed/6069950

[jpinx]

From the video it appears to be in trouble before it comes into shot. It narrowly misses the buildings in a barely controlled stall -- looking like it was heading for a splashdown in the river but the stall was too much and dropped a wing just as it crossed the bridge. Rolling back to the cause of the stall will be the interesting bit. 116Knots on take-off seems low for a machine that cruises at 275 knots -- looks like wet weather - was the runway a bit waterlogged? What was the weight at take-off? Maybe bird ingestion caused engine flame-out?

some references ..

http://planes.findthebest.com/l/123/ATR-72-600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/555876-transasia-water-2.html

Good luck to the survivors and rescuers, and condolences to the families of those that perished...

You suggest a bird strike and flame out?

This plane had props.

What was the take off weight?

How well maintained was it.

In 69 an plane from Kaoshung to Taipei fell out of the sky shortly after take off.

It had reported a fuel transfer problem between tanks, had got permission to make an emergency landing at Tainan security airbase.

The fault cleared so they pressed on and after that it fell down.....

Our boss was supposed to be on that plane but someone booked to fly on the earlier plane elected to change to the second flight so our boss took his seat on the first flight. Otherwise he'd a been a gonna too.

RIP and condolences to their families.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/265154/

and umpteen other references by google "turboprop birdstrikes"

[csabo]

At least 9 killed when TransAsia plane crashes into Taiwan river

TAIPEI (Reuters) - At least nine people were killed and dozens were unaccounted for after a Taiwanese TransAsia Airways plane with 58 passengers and crew on board crash-landed in a Taipei river on Wednesday, officials and domestic media said.

Dramatic pictures taken by a motorist and posted on Twitter showed the planed cartwheeling over a motorway close to the airport soon after the turboprop ATR 72-600 aircraft took off.

Television footage showed passengers wearing life jackets wading and swimming clear of the river.

Emergency rescue officials in inflatable boats crowded around the partially submerged fuselage, lying on its side in the river, trying to help those on board.

The civilian aeronautic authority said soon after the crash that two people had been killed. Taiwanese television later reported the death toll had risen to nine.

The aeronautic authority reported 16 people had been rescued, meaning as many as 33 people were still missing.

Other Taiwanese government authorities said the plane was carrying 58 passengers and crew, including 31 tourists from mainland China.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/At-least-9-killed-when-TransAsia-plane-crashes-int-30253361.html

-- The Nation 2015-02-04

Reuters got that wrong. The plane wasn't at all "cartwheeling over a motorway". It was coming down, tipped over on the port side, in a fully developed (wing) stall.

Thanks for the tech analysis. I would have said "fell from the sky like a stone" but your description sounds real fancy.

[djlest]

Horriffic - RIP to all those involved.
Not a good start to 2015

[Basil B]

That is scary.

Goes to prove that airplanes do not glide to the ground when something fails.

Fortunately they hit water instead of full impact with the bridge.

May they rest in peace.

Any plane will glide, I go with the theory already put, the pilot probably reduced rate of decent to avoid the tall buildings and stalled, had he crash into them there probably would have been no survivors.

[gigman]

Some people are very lucky including taxi man.

[bkkjames]

In others news same make of plane had an incident in Indonesia this aft apparently,.,runway overshoot or something

[Roota]

The ATR-72 has a very bad safety record

Nonsense. It's the most popular aircraft of its size and type in the world, an its safety record among reputable airlines is just fine. But TransAsia seems to have made crashing ATRs something of a company policy.

[Mosha]

This is the airlines second fatal crash inside 12 months.

[Jay Sata]

The ATR is a turboprop.

Gas turbine or in layman terms a jet engine driving a propellor.

Engine failure on take of will result in huge asymmetric problems or in other words the aircraft will roll towards the dead engine.

The un feathered prop on the dead engine will act like a brake.

[Gweiloman]

The ATR is a turboprop.

Gas turbine or in layman terms a jet engine driving a propellor.

Engine failure on take of will result in huge asymmetric problems or in other words the aircraft will roll towards the dead engine.

The un feathered prop on the dead engine will act like a brake.

Is this what they call a wing stall?

[NeverSure]

That is scary.

Goes to prove that airplanes do not glide to the ground when something fails.

Fortunately they hit water instead of full impact with the bridge.

May they rest in peace.

Any plane will glide, I go with the theory already put, the pilot probably reduced rate of decent to avoid the tall buildings and stalled, had he crash into them there probably would have been no survivors.

Exactly.

In the first vids it looked like maybe the pilot put the plane on its side to get between buildings but this vid from farther back shows he cleared the buildings level. He then was running nose high, probably to try to stretch his glide beyond obstacles and the wings stalled. That put him on his port side from which he never recovered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJNAx4BsUtE&feature=youtu.be

[Jay Sata]

The ATR is a turboprop.

Gas turbine or in layman terms a jet engine driving a propellor.

Engine failure on take of will result in huge asymmetric problems or in other words the aircraft will roll towards the dead engine.

The un feathered prop on the dead engine will act like a brake.

Is this what they call a wing stall?

No. Wing stall is when the wings stop producing lift because of insuffient forward speed.

It appears the engine flamed out or to put it another way wound down and stopped.

Take off is a critical phase of flight.

If you look at the propellers you will see one it rotating slower than the other.

With one engine producing little or no power and the other on full power the aircraft would want to turn sharply towards the dead engine and in so doing roll.

Pilots of small twin engined aircraft train for this scenario but a fully loaded airliner would be extremely difficult

to control. The only way to stop the roll is with full rudder but near impossible to achieve at slow speed.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Jay Sata

[NeverSure]

Is this what they call a wing stall?

No. Wing stall is when the wings stop producing lift because of insuffient forward speed.

It appears the engine flamed out or to put it another way wound down and stopped.

Take off is a critical phase of flight.

If you look at the propellers you will see one it rotating slower than the other.

With one engine producing little or no power and the other on full power the aircraft would want to turn sharply towards the dead engine and in so doing roll.

Pilots of small twin engined aircraft train for this scenario but a fully loaded airliner would be extremely difficult

to control. The only way to stop the roll is with full rudder but near impossible to achieve at slow speed.

"No. Wing stall is when the wings stop producing lift because of insuffient forward speed."

A plane can stall at any speed or any attitude. If a fighter jet doing 500 mph pulls up too sharply, the angle of attack can get too great and the wings will stall out of it.

"It appears the engine flamed out or to put it another way wound down and stopped."

If it had a dead engine, it was at least windmilling.

"Take off is a critical phase of flight."

True.

"If you look at the propellers you will see one it rotating slower than the other."

I can't see that. I can see both engines turning, and wonder why if one engine failed the pilots didn't feather the prop to reduce drag.

"With one engine producing little or no power and the other on full power the aircraft would want to turn sharply towards the dead engine and in so doing roll."

The pilot would want to turn away from the dead engine. The asymmetrical thrust of the good engine is already turning the plane toward the dead engine and opposite control input is needed.

The pilot had it under control by slightly banking and using opposite rudder right up until the instant you can see the wings stall, left wing first. The plane didn't roll in that way. The left wing stalled and dropped and then the whole plane dropped.

"Pilots of small twin engined aircraft train for this scenario but a fully loaded airliner would be extremely difficult

to control. The only way to stop the roll is with full rudder but near impossible to achieve at slow speed."

The ways to control an engine out roll are to bank against it with wing aerilons, use opposite rudder, and reduce power on the good engine. It isn't at all difficult to control unless the pilot gets too high an angle of attack and stalls the wings.

That plane was doing fine and was fully under control until a combination of high angle of attack and low airspeed caused the wings to stall, left wing first. Again, you can see the very instant it stalls.

Edited February 4, 2015 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

The more I look at that last vid, the more apparent it is that if he had an engine out it was the right engine. The plane was banking to the left and crabbing slightly to the left. These are the inputs the pilot would use to counter the asymmetrical thrust of the good left engine - bank and turn toward it.

He had to know he was a approaching a stall due to buzzers and lights, perhaps a stick shaker and the turbulence over the wings. However, if the options are to risk a stall and perhaps stretch the glide to a better place to put it down, or crash into hard things which for sure will kill everyone, I might have taken that gamble too. As it turned out, there were survivors and I credit the pilot for that.

[Rangsitreppin]

drunk flying by the looks of things

[webfact]

Crashed Taiwan plane hoisted from river; 26 confirmed dead

By RALPH JENNINGS

TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — Rescuers used a crane to hoist the fuselage of a wrecked TransAsia Airways plane from a shallow river in Taiwan's capital late Wednesday as they searched into the night for 17 people missing in a crash that killed at least 26 others.

Flight 235 with 58 people aboard — most of them travelers from China — banked sharply on its side shortly after takeoff from Taipei, clipped a highway bridge and then careened into the Keelung River.

Rescuers in rubber rafts pulled 15 people alive from the wreckage during daylight. After dark, they brought in the crane, and the death toll was expected to rise once crews were able to search through submerged portions of the fuselage, which came to rest a few dozen meters (yards) from the shore.

Dramatic video clips apparently taken from cars were posted online and aired by broadcasters, showing the ATR 72 propjet as it pivoted onto its side while zooming toward a traffic bridge over the river. In one of them, the plane rapidly fills the frame as its now-vertical wing scrapes over the road, hitting a vehicle before heading into the river.

Speculation cited in local media said the crew may have turned sharply to follow the line of the river to avoid crashing into a high-rise residential area, but Taiwan's aviation authority said it had no evidence of that.

Taiwanese broadcasters repeatedly played a recording of the plane's final contact with the control tower in which the crew called out "Mayday" three times. The recording offered no direct clues as to why the plane was in distress.

It was the airline's second French-Italian-built ATR 72 to crash in the past year. Wednesday's flight had taken off at 11:53 a.m. from Taipei's downtown Sungshan Airport en route to the outlying Taiwanese-controlled Kinmen islands. The crew issued the mayday call shortly after takeoff, Taiwanese civil aviation authorities said.

TransAsia director Peter Chen said contact with the plane was lost four minutes after takeoff. He said weather conditions were suitable for flying and the cause of the accident was unknown.

"Actually this aircraft in the accident was the newest model. It hadn't been used for even a year," he told a news conference.

Thirty-one passengers were from China, Taiwan's tourism bureau said. Kinmen's airport is a common link between Taipei and China's Fujian province.

Taiwan's Civil Aeronautics Administration said 26 people were confirmed dead, 15 were rescued with injuries and 17 were still missing. It said two people on the ground were hurt.

Wu Jun-hong, a Taipei Fire Department official who was coordinating the rescue, said the missing people were either still in the fuselage or had perhaps been pulled down the river.

"At the moment, things don't look too optimistic," Wu told reporters at the scene. "Those in the front of the plane are likely to have lost their lives."

Rescuers could be seen pulling luggage from an open plane door to clear the fuselage. Ten inflatable dinghies also searched for the missing.

As a drizzle fell around nightfall, military crews took portable bridges to the scene, where rescue workers were building docks for easier access to the wreckage. About 300 rescue personnel and members of the media stood along the banks of the narrow river.

Part of the freeway above it was littered with debris and was closed after the crash.

Relatives of the victims had not reached the scene by dusk Wednesday but some were expected to arrive Thursday, including some flying from Beijing.

The plane's wing hit a taxi on the freeway, and the driver and a passenger were injured, Chen said.

Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense said it had sent 165 people and eight boats to the riverside rescue scene, joining fire department rescue crews.

Another ATR 72 operated by the same Taipei-based airline crashed in the outlying Taiwan-controlled islands of Penghu last July 23, killing 48 at the end of a typhoon for reasons that are still under investigation.

ATR, a French-Italian consortium based in Toulouse, France, said it was sending a team to Taiwan to help in the investigation.

The ATR 72-600 that crashed Wednesday is manufacturer's best plane model, and the pilot had 4,900 hours of flying experience, said Lin Chih-ming of the Civil Aeronautics Administration.

Greg Waldron, Asia managing editor at Flightglobal magazine in Singapore, said the ATR 72-600 is the latest iteration of one of the most popular turboprop planes in the world, particularly favored for regional short-hop flights in Asia.

It has a generally good reputation for safety and reliability and is known among airlines for being cheap and efficient to operate.

While it's too early to say what caused the crash, engine trouble or weight shifting were unlikely to be causes, Waldron said. Other possible factors include pilot error, weather or freak incidents such as bird strikes.

"It's too early now to speculate on whether it was an issue with the aircraft or crew," Waldron said.

The accessibility of the crash site should allow for a swift investigation, and an initial report should be available within about a month, Waldron said.

___

Associated Press writers Christopher Bodeen, Ian Mader and Didi Tang in Beijing, and Greg Keller in Paris contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-05

[Chonburiram]

That is scary.

Goes to prove that airplanes do not glide to the ground when something fails.

Fortunately they hit water instead of full impact with the bridge.

May they rest in peace.

Any plane will glide, I go with the theory already put, the pilot probably reduced rate of decent to avoid the tall buildings and stalled, had he crash into them there probably would have been no survivors.

Exactly.

In the first vids it looked like maybe the pilot put the plane on its side to get between buildings but this vid from farther back shows he cleared the buildings level. He then was running nose high, probably to try to stretch his glide beyond obstacles and the wings stalled. That put him on his port side from which he never recovered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJNAx4BsUtE&feature=youtu.be

In the vid, it looks like the plane hits a building with its tail.

Maybe time to alter the topic title?

[NeverSure]

In the vid, it looks like the plane hits a building with its tail.

Maybe time to alter the topic title?

I wondered about that, but just as the plane exits the vid right, it's on its side and you can see all of the tail including the left and right horizontal stabilizers and they are undamaged as is the vertical stabilizer.

For some reason the plane lost power or significantly reduced power. That is apparent by the fact that it is slow in a descent. It glided over the tops of the buildings but the pilot must have felt he needed to stretch his glide and had the nose up which would ultimately lose flying speed if lacking power. Look at the vid. You can see that the nose is up which, lacking power, will surely and continually slow the plane.

Just as the plane gets over the roadway the left wing stalls (loses lift) and drops, putting the plane on its port side. When that happens the whole plane drops and the rest is obvious.