Kan Win Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Did you know there is a tiger facility in khao yai np ? Maybe they will end up there. Ohh great, lets put then there with all the other wild Elephants that we have see in the News. Crazy thinking Showbags Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Win Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Did you know there is a tiger facility in khao yai np ? Maybe they will end up there. firstly I don't think they are being moved and secondly there are over one hundred Tigers - do you think they have room there? what sort of "facility" is it? My guess it would a POW Camp or even worse a Refugee Camp. Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) If any move is not fully prepared, then it would certainly be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. I don't think people fully understand the logistics nightmare these monks have created. Edited February 10, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Cages?? where is this facility? There are probably no wild tigers in Khao Yai - in neighbouring parks maybe, so why are they holding tigers in cages there? is it within the park itself? do you have any photos of this? i also can't see the point in moving the animals to cages when they are already in cages......it would seem pretty pointless - it seems to me that IF and it's a big 'if" they were going to be dispersed it would need to be to a large open zoo where they could move about.I would think this hasn't been arranged and would take months even years to organise. 20131205_111145(1).jpg sorry but if that is actually a cage in khao Yai - it clearly isn't suitable for taking the tigers from the temple - i don't actually think the place you are talking of exists though does it? do you have n address or map reference? why are they keeping tigers in cages in Khao yai? believe what you want sunshine...whats hard to believe....experienced thai enviromental and wildlife professional management experts taking care of such animals in shown conditions ?? I don't follow - what do you mean "show conditions"?? Tiger are wild animals they don't go to shows........i think you don't know what you re talking about me thinks you cannot read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Anyway....they just waiting for their visas to china.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbler Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The tigers have lived their entire lives in cages being fed dead chickens. If released into the wild or a semi wild situation they would quickly die of starvation but before that they would likely take out the closest tourists Can't they be slowly rehabilitated into the wild? I seem to remember reading it happening to captive lions years ago somewhere. How many times does it have to be said? YOU CAN'T RELEASE THOSE TIGERS INTO THE WILD - they are an ecological time bomb.the best you could ever do is release them into a large "tiger-proof" enclosure. it is also inaccurate to suggest that they would starve - that has little or nothing to do with it. On the contrary if tigers accustomed to being hand fed are released into a wild or semi wild situation they will not be able to find food as they never learnt hunting behaviour. They will indeed die of starvation!! Look - firstly they can't be released because they are hybrids or inbred - they would damage or even destroy the sub-species gene-pool in the wild. So your concerns about "starving" are both inaccurate and irrelevant. You really aren't getting the whole picture - they won't starve they will have to be killed for obvious reasons - their ability in hunting is not the problem - if you release tigers into the wild that are accustomed to humans may well not be good at hunting in the wild however they still have the basic instincts - SO - they will go in search of food in areas that it is easy to catch or scavenge - i.e. farms etc and they will not avoid humans either. Such confrontation will inevitably lead to the destruction of those tigers and any other tigers who happen to be nearby as well. Tigers are in general solitary animals and they have basic instincts for hunting which even the temple understands - their instinct is to creep up from behind and grab the neck of their prey - this has not been lost by the tigers at the temple. i've witnessed a couple of hair-raising incidents their with a small foal and watched several tigers instinctively adopt the hunting pose. Believe me, they will still hunt but they won't stay clear of humans and their property. You're speaking as if you might have been a zoo manager in a previous lifetime? We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please into a safari park or worse still a wildlife sanctuary, if no one is paying attention. They tried to do the same with Australian bred Sarus cranes a few years back didn't they!! Hey there's an idea, Cambodia has officially lost all its tigers so why not offer some wild Thai (Temple) Tigers for a reintroduction program? What a generous contribution that would be. Hell why not offer all 100 to bring back tigers in Cambodia, Lao and Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) You're speaking as if you might have been a zoo manager in a previous lifetime? We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please into a safari park or worse still a wildlife sanctuary, if no one is paying attention. They tried to do the same with Australian bred Sarus cranes a few years back didn't they!! Hey there's an idea, Cambodia has officially lost all its tigers so why not offer some wild Thai (Temple) Tigers for a reintroduction program? What a generous contribution that would be. Hell why not offer all 100 to bring back tigers in Cambodia, Lao and Vietnam. Like This I’d say that almost 100% of everything you’ve written there has an incorrect premise or assumption........... I’m not speaking as if I was a manager, I’m speaking as someone who has read widely and to some extent has a basic knowledge of the principals of conservation and animal welfare. I also have a working knowledge of Thailand, its society and politics. All this is available to anyone who takes the time to find out. I’ve been interested in wildlife all my life but I wasn’t especially drawn to big cats - Tigers in particular - until I came to Thailand and saw the predicament they are in and the terrible and wanton degradation of their habitat by the country and the myths and falsehoods disseminated by such establishments as the temple and others. That was over 12 years ago..... I think one of the reasons the Tiger temple has lasted so long is that the general public both Thai and foreign don’t seem to have a clue about the issues involved. A wildlife sanctuary and a safari park are not the same thing - a wildlife sanctuary is an area with special conditions to preserve wildlife - the Huai Kha Kaeng Sanctuary is one such place and is the centre for Tiger conservation in the Kingdom. It doesn’t have fences around it - its too big - it is a core area that relies on “buffer zones to protect the heart from human interference. - e.g. development, logging poaching etc.... these op0f course are under threat - by such projects as the Mae Wong Dam. For me the only thing in the above post that makes any sense at all is the idea of a “Safari Park” - if the Tigers from the temple are to be kept in anything that approaches a natural environment then they need a large FENCED area that keeps them isolated from any indigenous tigers. Tigers are solitary animals most of the time and need a large amount of space, depending on prey etc. - they need a minimum of about 10 km square each up to 500 km2 in areas sparse in prey (e.g. Siberia). This of course would be like a Thai “Jurassic Park”, with all the concomitant management nightmares. It also seems that some posters don’t seem to understand why hybrids or inbred animals are so dangerous to conservation........... The subspecies of Tiger that has evolved in this area is the sub-species “Corbetti” - if you introduce another sub-species, or worse still, an inbreed number of animals you will destroy the current gene-pool and may even lead to unhealthy or diseased animals thus rendering that entire sub-species extinct. There are in fact about 200 to 300 hundred wild tigers left in and around Thailand and even if the animals were OK, introducing that number of animals from the temple would have a disastrous affect on the indigenous population. Unless the animals are deemed not to be hybrids or interbred THEY CANNOT BE RELEASED -......anywhere!!! The Tiger isn’t officially extinct in Cambodia and you seem to overlook that all tigers don’t actually have passports or any concept of nationality. I don’t know why you think that releasing them in Cambodia would be any less disastrous than in Thailand - tigers need to be released in an eco system that can support them - by definition this means they will almost certainly encounter other tigers at some point. ,and breed. The conservation efforts regarding tigers are international and the current programs cover all of the western forest complex and areas from the S.E. Asian peninsular up to India Nepal and Bhutan....Thailand is one of the weakest links in this and establishments like the temple that promote misinformation about tigers are at least partly to blame. I believe the plane to “introduce” the Sarus crane has been abandoned in Cambodia or at least suspended - there are/were also plans to reintroduce it to Thailand - the Sarus has several subspecies and there are various obstacles and concerns relating to this........ and if these have proved too difficult imagine the problems surrounding Tigers. I think hardly anyone on this thread has the faintest idea of how incredibly longwinded and complicated it is to “re”-introduce a species into anywhere - and introducing a bird is a completely different exercise compared to introducing an apex predator. As far as I’m aware there is only one scheme at present to reintroduce tigers - that’s in Siberia - an area with a very sparse human population and which has bee shown to have the right kind of prey and ecosystem to do this - even so it is costing a fortune and there is no guarantee it will be successful. You can’t just open a gate and say, “go tiger! go!...run free and thrive” - you have to realise the animals into bio systems that are prepared and ready with appropriate supplies of prey and natural habitat and that also requires all the other animals to have their food chain intact which in turn requires vegetation which in turn requires the correct soil and water - - you get the gist? Thailand potentially has enough free land space for about 2000 tigers, but it needs a government with the will to do something. Essentially there never has been any government in Thailand that has done any more than give lip service to wildlife and conservation Legislation to protect animals in Thailand is virtually non-existent - a law passed in 2013 - the first of its kind - actually omits any wildlife from its scope - dealing only with domestic animals....too a greater or lesser extent. “We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please” - Not likely! - whereas successive Thai governments and the general public are not very concerned about wildlife and conservation, there ARE some people who are passionate about it....and it would take some extraordinary mismanagement - even for Thailand - to release these animals once they had been confiscated from the temple. If they di they would become the pariahs of the Conservation world and probably be in breach of their obligations to CITES which would bring about yet another threat of sanctions against the country. The raid of the temple as far as I can see was just a bungled bit of aggression by some people with an axe to grind - I don’t see any evidence....yet.....that it was aimed at improving the lot of one single animal or righting the apparent multitude of wrongs at the temple. I do however see a lot of evidence that neither foreigners nor Thais have given a moments thought about what should happen to the temple in order to bring it in line with good conservation principles....... Edited February 10, 2015 by metisdead Instead of using overly large font, please learn how to use the quote function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roo860 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I have heard complaints about this place for the last 5 years. Glad the government responded so quickly....5 years - you have to be joking! - it has been criticised since its inceptionIn 1996 shortly after it all began they had 6 tigers and the abbot claimed they were all 'orphans' of tigers poached on the Thai-Myanmar border. 19 years later there are 100 tigers and the government has only just acted on the knowledge that conservation agencies had for a long time that tigers are being trafficked through this facility to other countries ( Lao is the destination for most tigers traded out of the tiger temple). It's part of an international smuggling ring with connections to influential people, perhaps now those people are slightly less influential than in the past hence the bust is now possible....And here is the link to the information on tiger trade and tiger mistreatment at the tiger temple http://www.careforthewild.com/what-we-do/campaigns/temple-of-lies/ Just watched the vid, what a disgrace!!! That western guy with the microphone should be fed to them!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) 5 years - you have to be joking! - it has been criticised since its inceptionIn 1996 shortly after it all began they had 6 tigers and the abbot claimed they were all 'orphans' of tigers poached on the Thai-Myanmar border. 19 years later there are 100 tigers and the government has only just acted on the knowledge that conservation agencies had for a long time that tigers are being trafficked through this facility to other countries ( Lao is the destination for most tigers traded out of the tiger temple). It's part of an international smuggling ring with connections to influential people, perhaps now those people are slightly less influential than in the past hence the bust is now possible....And here is the link to the information on tiger trade and tiger mistreatment at the tiger temple http://www.careforthewild.com/what-we-do/campaigns/temple-of-lies/ Just watched the vid, what a disgrace!!! That western guy with the microphone should be fed to them!!!!!!! One thing I noticed about the temple is the way they handle the public. It is in the style of a Barnum circus - you think they are handling the tigers but it is the public that is being manipulated..... - great emphasis is put on the potential "dangers" of incorrect behaviour. - this is in fact just hard-sell technique - This kind of spiel is typical of a showman mentality and actually of course has little or no basis in reality of the situation. The real dangers - i.e. that tigers are totally unpredictable - are of course are glossed over. This means that in the end the punters are thrilled that they have been so "brave" and believe they have had value for money. Edited February 11, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwisailor Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 In the paper that cannot be mentioned, all is well at the Tiger temple - the 143 tigers can stay and tourists must visit as they now need 100,000 Bht per day just to feed the envelopes tigers. Don't think they'll see me there again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yes - the temple has been cleared of ALL wrong-doing....after a 3 hour visit. Remarkably efficient for Thailand. I wonder how the DNA testing went, th calibration of the Tigers' cells the review of activities the diet and the illegal breeding program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Here's the report on Yahoo news - http://news.yahoo.com/wildlife-officials-famed-thai-temple-doesnt-abuse-tigers-113958304.html Also a magical photograph of a monk giving water to a tiger on the BBC website - http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-31441988 Another great gallery of photographs on FOX news - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/12/famed-tiger-temple-where-big-cats-live-alongside-buddhist-monks-cleared/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukkytuktuk Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You're speaking as if you might have been a zoo manager in a previous lifetime? We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please into a safari park or worse still a wildlife sanctuary, if no one is paying attention. They tried to do the same with Australian bred Sarus cranes a few years back didn't they!! Hey there's an idea, Cambodia has officially lost all its tigers so why not offer some wild Thai (Temple) Tigers for a reintroduction program? What a generous contribution that would be. Hell why not offer all 100 to bring back tigers in Cambodia, Lao and Vietnam. Like This Id say that almost 100% of everything youve written there has an incorrect premise or assumption........... Im not speaking as if I was a manager, Im speaking as someone who has read widely and to some extent has a basic knowledge of the principals of conservation and animal welfare. I also have a working knowledge of Thailand, its society and politics. All this is available to anyone who takes the time to find out. Ive been interested in wildlife all my life but I wasnt especially drawn to big cats - Tigers in particular - until I came to Thailand and saw the predicament they are in and the terrible and wanton degradation of their habitat by the country and the myths and falsehoods disseminated by such establishments as the temple and others. That was over 12 years ago..... I think one of the reasons the Tiger temple has lasted so long is that the general public both Thai and foreign dont seem to have a clue about the issues involved. A wildlife sanctuary and a safari park are not the same thing - a wildlife sanctuary is an area with special conditions to preserve wildlife - the Huai Kha Kaeng Sanctuary is one such place and is the centre for Tiger conservation in the Kingdom. It doesnt have fences around it - its too big - it is a core area that relies on buffer zones to protect the heart from human interference. - e.g. development, logging poaching etc.... these op0f course are under threat - by such projects as the Mae Wong Dam. For me the only thing in the above post that makes any sense at all is the idea of a Safari Park - if the Tigers from the temple are to be kept in anything that approaches a natural environment then they need a large FENCED area that keeps them isolated from any indigenous tigers. Tigers are solitary animals most of the time and need a large amount of space, depending on prey etc. - they need a minimum of about 10 km square each up to 500 km2 in areas sparse in prey (e.g. Siberia). This of course would be like a Thai Jurassic Park, with all the concomitant management nightmares. It also seems that some posters dont seem to understand why hybrids or inbred animals are so dangerous to conservation........... The subspecies of Tiger that has evolved in this area is the sub-species Corbetti - if you introduce another sub-species, or worse still, an inbreed number of animals you will destroy the current gene-pool and may even lead to unhealthy or diseased animals thus rendering that entire sub-species extinct. There are in fact about 200 to 300 hundred wild tigers left in and around Thailand and even if the animals were OK, introducing that number of animals from the temple would have a disastrous affect on the indigenous population. Unless the animals are deemed not to be hybrids or interbred THEY CANNOT BE RELEASED -......anywhere!!! The Tiger isnt officially extinct in Cambodia and you seem to overlook that all tigers dont actually have passports or any concept of nationality. I dont know why you think that releasing them in Cambodia would be any less disastrous than in Thailand - tigers need to be released in an eco system that can support them - by definition this means they will almost certainly encounter other tigers at some point. ,and breed. The conservation efforts regarding tigers are international and the current programs cover all of the western forest complex and areas from the S.E. Asian peninsular up to India Nepal and Bhutan....Thailand is one of the weakest links in this and establishments like the temple that promote misinformation about tigers are at least partly to blame. I believe the plane to introduce the Sarus crane has been abandoned in Cambodia or at least suspended - there are/were also plans to reintroduce it to Thailand - the Sarus has several subspecies and there are various obstacles and concerns relating to this........ and if these have proved too difficult imagine the problems surrounding Tigers. I think hardly anyone on this thread has the faintest idea of how incredibly longwinded and complicated it is to re-introduce a species into anywhere - and introducing a bird is a completely different exercise compared to introducing an apex predator. As far as Im aware there is only one scheme at present to reintroduce tigers - thats in Siberia - an area with a very sparse human population and which has bee shown to have the right kind of prey and ecosystem to do this - even so it is costing a fortune and there is no guarantee it will be successful. You cant just open a gate and say, go tiger! go!...run free and thrive - you have to realise the animals into bio systems that are prepared and ready with appropriate supplies of prey and natural habitat and that also requires all the other animals to have their food chain intact which in turn requires vegetation which in turn requires the correct soil and water - - you get the gist? Thailand potentially has enough free land space for about 2000 tigers, but it needs a government with the will to do something. Essentially there never has been any government in Thailand that has done any more than give lip service to wildlife and conservation Legislation to protect animals in Thailand is virtually non-existent - a law passed in 2013 - the first of its kind - actually omits any wildlife from its scope - dealing only with domestic animals....too a greater or lesser extent. We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please - Not likely! - whereas successive Thai governments and the general public are not very concerned about wildlife and conservation, there ARE some people who are passionate about it....and it would take some extraordinary mismanagement - even for Thailand - to release these animals once they had been confiscated from the temple. If they di they would become the pariahs of the Conservation world and probably be in breach of their obligations to CITES which would bring about yet another threat of sanctions against the country. The raid of the temple as far as I can see was just a bungled bit of aggression by some people with an axe to grind - I dont see any evidence....yet.....that it was aimed at improving the lot of one single animal or righting the apparent multitude of wrongs at the temple. I do however see a lot of evidence that neither foreigners nor Thais have given a moments thought about what should happen to the temple in order to bring it in line with good conservation principles....... Why not leave the temple, the tigers and the monks alone. Get on with your own sad existence. Has any of you posters seen a documentary called(The Cove)? All countries have ways of treating animals, just cause you don't agree doesn't make it wrong. How far do these animal rights protesters go? Is it cruel to hook a fish then pull the hook out and let it go? China recently sent a dog into space to test a new space rocket. What about shark fins being chopped off for soup in China? What about plastic bags polluting the coral reefs of many of Thailand's islands? The list is endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You're speaking as if you might have been a zoo manager in a previous lifetime? We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please into a safari park or worse still a wildlife sanctuary, if no one is paying attention. They tried to do the same with Australian bred Sarus cranes a few years back didn't they!! Hey there's an idea, Cambodia has officially lost all its tigers so why not offer some wild Thai (Temple) Tigers for a reintroduction program? What a generous contribution that would be. Hell why not offer all 100 to bring back tigers in Cambodia, Lao and Vietnam. Like This Id say that almost 100% of everything youve written there has an incorrect premise or assumption........... Im not speaking as if I was a manager, Im speaking as someone who has read widely and to some extent has a basic knowledge of the principals of conservation and animal welfare. I also have a working knowledge of Thailand, its society and politics. All this is available to anyone who takes the time to find out. Ive been interested in wildlife all my life but I wasnt especially drawn to big cats - Tigers in particular - until I came to Thailand and saw the predicament they are in and the terrible and wanton degradation of their habitat by the country and the myths and falsehoods disseminated by such establishments as the temple and others. That was over 12 years ago..... I think one of the reasons the Tiger temple has lasted so long is that the general public both Thai and foreign dont seem to have a clue about the issues involved. A wildlife sanctuary and a safari park are not the same thing - a wildlife sanctuary is an area with special conditions to preserve wildlife - the Huai Kha Kaeng Sanctuary is one such place and is the centre for Tiger conservation in the Kingdom. It doesnt have fences around it - its too big - it is a core area that relies on buffer zones to protect the heart from human interference. - e.g. development, logging poaching etc.... these op0f course are under threat - by such projects as the Mae Wong Dam. For me the only thing in the above post that makes any sense at all is the idea of a Safari Park - if the Tigers from the temple are to be kept in anything that approaches a natural environment then they need a large FENCED area that keeps them isolated from any indigenous tigers. Tigers are solitary animals most of the time and need a large amount of space, depending on prey etc. - they need a minimum of about 10 km square each up to 500 km2 in areas sparse in prey (e.g. Siberia). This of course would be like a Thai Jurassic Park, with all the concomitant management nightmares. It also seems that some posters dont seem to understand why hybrids or inbred animals are so dangerous to conservation........... The subspecies of Tiger that has evolved in this area is the sub-species Corbetti - if you introduce another sub-species, or worse still, an inbreed number of animals you will destroy the current gene-pool and may even lead to unhealthy or diseased animals thus rendering that entire sub-species extinct. There are in fact about 200 to 300 hundred wild tigers left in and around Thailand and even if the animals were OK, introducing that number of animals from the temple would have a disastrous affect on the indigenous population. Unless the animals are deemed not to be hybrids or interbred THEY CANNOT BE RELEASED -......anywhere!!! The Tiger isnt officially extinct in Cambodia and you seem to overlook that all tigers dont actually have passports or any concept of nationality. I dont know why you think that releasing them in Cambodia would be any less disastrous than in Thailand - tigers need to be released in an eco system that can support them - by definition this means they will almost certainly encounter other tigers at some point. ,and breed. The conservation efforts regarding tigers are international and the current programs cover all of the western forest complex and areas from the S.E. Asian peninsular up to India Nepal and Bhutan....Thailand is one of the weakest links in this and establishments like the temple that promote misinformation about tigers are at least partly to blame. I believe the plane to introduce the Sarus crane has been abandoned in Cambodia or at least suspended - there are/were also plans to reintroduce it to Thailand - the Sarus has several subspecies and there are various obstacles and concerns relating to this........ and if these have proved too difficult imagine the problems surrounding Tigers. I think hardly anyone on this thread has the faintest idea of how incredibly longwinded and complicated it is to re-introduce a species into anywhere - and introducing a bird is a completely different exercise compared to introducing an apex predator. As far as Im aware there is only one scheme at present to reintroduce tigers - thats in Siberia - an area with a very sparse human population and which has bee shown to have the right kind of prey and ecosystem to do this - even so it is costing a fortune and there is no guarantee it will be successful. You cant just open a gate and say, go tiger! go!...run free and thrive - you have to realise the animals into bio systems that are prepared and ready with appropriate supplies of prey and natural habitat and that also requires all the other animals to have their food chain intact which in turn requires vegetation which in turn requires the correct soil and water - - you get the gist? Thailand potentially has enough free land space for about 2000 tigers, but it needs a government with the will to do something. Essentially there never has been any government in Thailand that has done any more than give lip service to wildlife and conservation Legislation to protect animals in Thailand is virtually non-existent - a law passed in 2013 - the first of its kind - actually omits any wildlife from its scope - dealing only with domestic animals....too a greater or lesser extent. We're in Thailand so they might release whatever hybrid or variant they please - Not likely! - whereas successive Thai governments and the general public are not very concerned about wildlife and conservation, there ARE some people who are passionate about it....and it would take some extraordinary mismanagement - even for Thailand - to release these animals once they had been confiscated from the temple. If they di they would become the pariahs of the Conservation world and probably be in breach of their obligations to CITES which would bring about yet another threat of sanctions against the country. The raid of the temple as far as I can see was just a bungled bit of aggression by some people with an axe to grind - I dont see any evidence....yet.....that it was aimed at improving the lot of one single animal or righting the apparent multitude of wrongs at the temple. I do however see a lot of evidence that neither foreigners nor Thais have given a moments thought about what should happen to the temple in order to bring it in line with good conservation principles....... Why not leave the temple, the tigers and the monks alone. Get on with your own sad existence. Has any of you posters seen a documentary called(The Cove)? All countries have ways of treating animals, just cause you don't agree doesn't make it wrong. How far do these animal rights protesters go? Is it cruel to hook a fish then pull the hook out and let it go? China recently sent a dog into space to test a new space rocket. What about shark fins being chopped off for soup in China? What about plastic bags polluting the coral reefs of many of Thailand's islands? The list is endless. This is possibly the most facile post of the entire thread: - How on earth does citing other cases of animal abuse in Thailand or other countries any way mitigate or justify the actions of the temple? - If there is a connection it is the total lack of legislation in Thailand to stop the wholesale abuse of animals and the environment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Here's the report on Yahoo news - http://news.yahoo.com/wildlife-officials-famed-thai-temple-doesnt-abuse-tigers-113958304.html Also a magical photograph of a monk giving water to a tiger on the BBC website - http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-31441988 Another great gallery of photographs on FOX news - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/12/famed-tiger-temple-where-big-cats-live-alongside-buddhist-monks-cleared/ these addresses clearly show that the poster has little or no understanding of the issues surrounding the temple - they rebut nothing but merely confirm the criticisms levelled at the temple. please try and find some more....... particularly like the Fox item... "A wildlife department raid last week found that the temple was illegally keeping 38 hornbills and other protected bird species." obviously the right kind of people to look after endangered animals.....????? Edited February 13, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukkytuktuk Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hey Cumsquawch, captive breeding is necessary for the survival of the species. Check out the WWF website - http://wwf.panda.org/?103860/Captive-Breeding-WWF-Policy-Statement-2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Are there any vices that monks are not involved in? This greedy behavior of the monks started over 10 years ago slowly already, more and more got infected. Politicians, Police, Monks etc. are often bad examples, how can be the rest of the ppl better, it was starting slowly it got some dynamic the last years. I told this over 10 years ago to my girlfriend, about the greedyness of some monks, she got angry like hell and shouting at me, they are holy men blabla. I was just laughing and said they are humans too, like in every level of a society you having good and bad ppl, like monks, politicians, police etc. the problem in LOS to many bad ppl everywhere. If you don't know in society who is good or bad then you having like before a Democratic elected Anarchy and this end in chaos, then is better Dictatur with clear rules. IMO until now the PM and his PPL making a good job, caused you cannot cleaning up a mess in 9 month, which was created and growing for over 10 years. This like the 10 (12) tasks of Herakles, almost impossible to solve, but he did and I hope the PM is also able to do it and he is still on a good way. I wish him good luck, but before he should sort out some of these rocket scientists around him, this would help to speed up this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Vile practices, The mantra is greed. Should go viral. Let the world know. I would face the monks with a ordeal, put they all together with all the tigers in a big cage, stop druging the tigers and then the monks can show their ability, to control the tigers, like they stated before. If they can not control them, then yeah som nam na. This sounds crazy and martial, but I think only big impact can wake up entire LOS, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Sadly, they are the whole sale suppliers of Tiger parts to China! Most people know they are doing illegal trade, so far they managed to run this trade. The business is like riding the Tiger itself, finally they get caught. Tigers are most territorial animals, and rehabilitating back to the wild is a tremendous job for Thailand. It is not easy how to rehabilitate 100 big cats. But at least there is a good news due to international pressure. They raided this place due to International pressure, not because to protect Thai wild life, because Thai wild life officials have illegal nexus with this trade. I guess nobody can rehabilitate these tigers and will be hard to find enough zoo's take them, all over the world. This is like a men eater(Tiger) you can never change his mind, only 2 possiblities left, put them in a cage or shoot them, unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thank god. There is a Bhudda. Made my day! I would say more the right PM who is brave enough to touch the holy cow of this country the monks. It's time for the thai society to getting out of the middle age in their beliefs, that the a monks are almost a holy men etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Went there many a moon a go cost me 100 baht and my Thai wife for free, twice, had to sign that I donated the 100 baht btw. Never went back, but, our Thai grown up children (from my wife's side) went there and all Thais complained about the fee they charged for Thais and non Thais as well, 600 baht. I just smiled, thinking to myself, "I told you so" as I did tell them. Re the 100 tigers, where is there a place to keep them in Thailand other than where they are now? Anyone knows? Kan Safari Park has the land, but , for 100 of them I think not. Win You can not release 1 of this tigers into the wild, then you will having soon 100 men eaters. They are not trained from their mothers to hunt, they will catch the easiest prey, humans!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 There have been reports on the scammery of this 'temple' from NGOs for years. It is a disgrace that has been left to fester because it was so profitable. Hats off to the current regime for taking action. On the first time was this for sure a profitable business, but there was some rockets scienctists in this Wat. Simple calculation of simple minds, more tigers, more tourists, but there is certain break even point, 100 tiger don't bringing 5 times more tourists as 20 tigers, but the producing 5 times more costs, caused 100 tigers eating a fortune every day. This is why they had to increase the prices the last years from 100 THB to 500 or 600 THB. I guess that they are just bankrupt, caused of the decreasing tourism the last 12 month and was asking for help to the government. I would not besurpriced about this scenario, unfortunately for the tigers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Are there any vices that monks are not involved in? Must of been trained by the catholic church. I would not say trained, but tried to copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yes, went there quite innocently a few months ago when visiting the a River Kwai bridge. Arrived at the site and was met by people from an animal cruelty organisation handing out leaflets about the place. If the pamphlets are correct it is horrifying what goes on. They even said that many if the men weren't monks at all and it was not a sanctuary but a business in profiteering. Didn't go in and left as did some others and put a message on Facebook so I am pleased to see something happen there. A rare well done to the Thai authorities profiteering.. like all zoos in the world today. I guess you don't having any clue, if you like to create for the animals in a Zoo a proper environment and maintenance, then this costs a fortune, in germany is not 1 Zoo who can survive from his entry fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I was at this place about 2009. I certainly did not see anything out of the ordinary other then tigers roaming around with their handlers. I have a few photos taken with them. Of course they were chained with a respectable length. Why would you or 'they' want to take a chance at these crazy tourists who would do anything. All they would need is a mauling. There was a time limit and the tigers were taken back to wherever. Then went on to see various animals in large zoo type areas wandering around. I certainly did not see anything what I would have thought illegal going on. But, I wasn't looking for it. It seemed good that someone was giving these tigers a chance. I thought the story was that this monk was saving tigers from being poached. The first one was a cub when its mother was killed. So in our midst there are those would rather see wild animals go extinct then to give them a helping hand. Mankind all over the world is encroaching on their habitats killing their survival. I'm not saying they should be caged as if in a circus, but to adapt is to survive. The numbers can't all be in the wild, nor a circus, nor a zoo, or a natural habitat without euthanasia. It is sad, IMO, that this place that certainly gave a sense of good deeds has this hanging over them. I would hope it is wrong. I wonder how much was that certain bribes were not paid, thus the smack down. Clean up what was wrong and let their mission continue. That would be the best. For the animals and for society and the movement. Just stop dreaming on the first hand was probably a kind of preservation, but later only used as Propaganda to hide their dirty businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 guess the wolves were too expensive to just let them be taken, they obviously couldnt afford to not have them to sell or already had sold them. Lets hope the police drag these mongrels over the coals, saffron shouldnt hold them back from really dishing it up to the bastards over this, monk or no monk they deserve jail time. Just hope they find the wolves still alive...... Bloody monks, I have zero respect for,along with all the other charlatans who prey on the gullible idiots who follow bullshit religions. This is in general nothing new, all religions are created to getting power over ppl, just another kind of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 100 tigers? Is this the worlds most successful captive breeding centre? I agree, the tigers are safer in the temple than released into the wild. The temple should be given the legal documentation to breed tigers in captivity and the abbot awarded for his conservation of the species. 1 dreamer more if the tigers are not drugged anymore, then the attraction is gone. These tigers are like kid soldiers, destroyed for their entire life, about social behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 100 tigers? Is this the worlds most successful captive breeding centre? I agree, the tigers are safer in the temple than released into the wild. The temple should be given the legal documentation to breed tigers in captivity and the abbot awarded for his conservation of the species. Do you realise this is complete and utter nonsense? I guess not, probably he had a high dose too, when he made his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I doubt if much is going to come of this that will sort out the problems created by the temple - it looks as if they were only concerned with the illegal trade birds and other wildlife - my hope is that they will replace the Abbott and his raggle-taggle team with experts, my guess is that next week it will be business as usual. And don't forget to prosecute all the ppl who was involved in these businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've never understood tourists go there to see and touch the tigers, worst thing to go with children, stupid humans and parents. For a long time it was promoted as a place that helps tigers that got rescued. I am sure many tourists thought they do something good by supporting them. Jajaja, some people always try to see good things even is all bad. How can U go specially with children to walk around and touch such animals.Of course there are beautiful animals,but they are PREDATORS. Because of monks are involved with this you think is safe and wonderful. Yes, the Monks also liked to show the simple crowd their magic(miracle), and a lot liked to believe it, just incredible. Religions like to creating miracles, just to keeping the donations running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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