Greece has nothing to lose by heading for the exit

[webfact]

OVERDRIVE
Greece has nothing to lose by heading for the exit
Thanong Khanthong

BANGKOK: -- Greece is paying a heavy price for handing over its money-printing press to the European Central Bank. Yesterday, the ECB announced it would not accept Greek government bonds as collateral on short-term loans to the country's banks.

The measure will come into effect on February 11. It represents the tough stance taken by the ECB over the new Greek government's failure to strike an agreement on its 240-billion-euro rescue package.

The new Greek government, under charismatic leader Alexis Tsipras, wants to renegotiate the conditions attached to the bailout package. That's the mandate it got from Greek voters in the election on January 25. The bailout package has made Greeks poorer and the economy has fallen 25 per cent since 2010.

The Greek government would like to be forgiven some of its debt so that it can begin rebuilding the country with a clean slate. Its debt load of 320 billion euros - equivalent to 170 per cent of Greece's GDP - can't be serviced amid the falling GDP. If 50 per cent of its debt load was lifted, Greece would have a chance of getting back on the path to recovery. The Greek Finance Ministry has also proposed a debt swap - exchanging old debt for new debt with more generous terms.

But so far the Greek's proposal for a wholesale debt renegotiation has fallen on deaf ears. The troika - the ECB, the European Union and the International Monetary Fund - will not budge, insisting that Greece stay on course by agreeing to fiscal belt-tightening measures, selling off state enterprises and repaying the debt on schedule without any debt forgiveness.

The deadline for Greece to agree to the troika's bailout package is February 28. Failure to do so would mean the country being denied a fresh loan of 7 billion euros as part of the bailout package. Greece would then be cut off from international financing, at a time when its banks are already facing a run on deposits.

But this wouldn't be the end of the world for the Greeks. Russia has offered to bail out Greece if it were to leave the euro zone. Greece can also borrow money from China, which has acted as an international lender of last resort before. Beijing assumed the role usually played by the IMF and lent money directly to Argentina and Venezuela. If Greece were to leave the euro zone, it would spell doom for the euro. Other countries unhappy with EU-imposed austerity measures, such as Portugal and Spain, might also follow in Greece's footsteps to the exit. And if Greece were to announce a moratorium to its 320-billion euro debt, the banks of Germany, France and Italy would suffer. The euro system could face collapse even if the ECB intervened by printing unlimited amounts of euros.

Greece would be better off if it left the euro zone. It could then go back to printing drachma, and regain its monetary independence. Support from the BRICS' countries would help Greece through the hard times. In due time, it would be able to secure economic recovery. The troika believes that it can corner Greece into complete surrender. But Greece seems to have the upper hand thanks to the game-changing presence of the BRICS' alliance. Greece has nothing to lose by heading for the exit.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Greece-has-nothing-to-lose-by-heading-for-the-exit-30253493.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-06

[lee b]

They should all do and scrap this funny money ! I went to Malta a few years back and could you name 1 person that was happy with the MP changing to the EURO? No way not 1 person was happier or better off. This is just 1 country for an example ( for the normal everyday person that trys to make a living ) And its the same in the rest of them, the Euro currency has screwed EU, oh wait its for bussiness, well what happened before that then???????

[rabid old goat]

its not the euro that has screwed greece but the Schengen_Area's visa policy. it has effectively isolated greece from its neighbours. if it wants to dump something dump that. but its far too late now.

Schengen Area (EU) in blue
Schengen Area (non-EU) light blue
Working to implement later yellow
EU member states outside Schengen green

Edited February 5, 2015 by rabid old goat

[rasmus5150]

But from this day on

It's either grow or pay

Grow or pay

'Cause I got run over by truth one day

Sometimes the sky's so gray

That you cannot see beyond it

And even the wildest of dreams

Can't take those lines from your forehead

Yeah, I know there's a bill

And it's gonna make it's way somehow

With an excuse and a bow

I'll be paying it now

[jacko45k]

Some people seem to have forgotten the problems Greece alleviated when it got rid of its own currency.

[davehowden]

I think it would be better if the author of this piece stuck to a topic he understands.

Greece got itself into deep poo because they were corrupt, created false accounts and spent money they did not have. They were bailed out and now do not want to pay the money back either in amount or in the timescales originally agreed.

When they have repaid what they were lent I then hope the EU kicks them out, freeloaders!

[maidee]

and still they keep on dumbing billion after billion in that sinkhole called greece ...

people like to cheat taxes, not paying any, claming benefits being blind, handicapped ...why having swimming pools, benzes, etc...

they should have never bailed greece ...lost cause

[Gordy Gambino]

My ting tong she say big problem ever since Nixon allowed America hansum mans to leave the gold standard.

Then she ask for 20,000 baht.

[soumanioco]

First off, there are no corrupt nations just as there are no fascist nations.

There are corrupt and fascist politicians. Disgusting puppets that are there to expedite the orders of the elite that got them elected.

And when those elites are actually controlling the EU abolishing any sense of democratic governing and looking after only their personal interest, then it's time to run. Run as far away as possible.

So, go Greece and let fourth reich Germany rule over the rest of Europe.

[does]

Dave did not read the article properly. It suggests what Greece should do now, not how it got where it is. Dave's response says more about Dave than about the article.

I think it would be better if the author of this piece stuck to a topic he understands.

Greece got itself into deep poo because they were corrupt, created false accounts and spent money they did not have. They were bailed out and now do not want to pay the money back either in amount or in the timescales originally agreed.

When they have repaid what they were lent I then hope the EU kicks them out, freeloaders!

[Mosha]

A rural town in Italy is twinned with a town in Greece. The mayor of the Greek town visits Italy and sees the mansion belonging to its mayor and wonders how he could afford such a home. The Italian says: “You see that bridge over there? The government gave us a grant to build a two-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge with traffic lights at either end, this house could be built.”

The following year the Italian visits Greece. He is astounded by Greek mayor’s spanking new palatial residence, complete with gold taps and marble floors. When he asks how this could be afforded, the Greek says: “You see that bridge over there?”

The Italian replies: “No.”

[daveAustin]

They sunk more money into Greece, because if they hadn't there was a chance it would've pulled down the euro. Good ole Greece, stick it to em, you just might scupper this anachronistic, bloated club yet and also well done the UK for letting them get in the club.

[jaywalker]

If Greece goes back to the Drachma it'll probably be like Thailand keeling over in 1997, yet it'll be the Euro that dies.

They've painted themselves into regular old corner there haven't they?

I saw another article today that said Greece had obtained independence in 1828 (from the Ottomans???), and had been in a state of default 1 out of 2 years since.

Where's my buddy Costas?

I'm sure he can set us straight.

[@Costas - Love Ya Buddy!]

[jaywalker]

First off, there are no corrupt nations just as there are no fascist nations.

There are corrupt and fascist politicians. Disgusting puppets that are there to expedite the orders of the elite that got them elected.

And when those elites are actually controlling the EU abolishing any sense of democratic governing and looking after only their personal interest, then it's time to run. Run as far away as possible.

So, go Greece and let fourth reich Germany rule over the rest of Europe.

AAAHhh, BUT, unless one is living under a coup-installed government, it was the populace that voted the corrupt politicians in.

The USA is no different.

Corrupt politicians buy their way in one way or another, usually with a promise of something for nothing (Rice Scheme in Thailand - Obamacare - Greek barbers that get government pensions at 50 years of age).

[Baerboxer]

Dave did not read the article properly. It suggests what Greece should do now, not how it got where it is. Dave's response says more about Dave than about the article.

I think it would be better if the author of this piece stuck to a topic he understands.

Greece got itself into deep poo because they were corrupt, created false accounts and spent money they did not have. They were bailed out and now do not want to pay the money back either in amount or in the timescales originally agreed.

When they have repaid what they were lent I then hope the EU kicks them out, freeloaders!

So Greece should default on its debts and agreements made when securing those loans and expect the EU to do nothing?

And then those wonderful BRIC countries will step in and fund the Greek economic disaster. Because all those fantastic BRIC's haven't got any problems at the moment and would be more than happy to loan money to another country that has just defaulted on all its previous agreements.

If Greece defaults on the loans and walks away from EU it goes bankrupt. But hey, they can still cut their austerity measures, like having to work and pay taxes.

[Morch]

A Thanong Khanthong column.......

[soumanioco]

First off, there are no corrupt nations just as there are no fascist nations.

There are corrupt and fascist politicians. Disgusting puppets that are there to expedite the orders of the elite that got them elected.

And when those elites are actually controlling the EU abolishing any sense of democratic governing and looking after only their personal interest, then it's time to run. Run as far away as possible.

So, go Greece and let fourth reich Germany rule over the rest of Europe.

AAAHhh, BUT, unless one is living under a coup-installed government, it was the populace that voted the corrupt politicians in.

The USA is no different.

Corrupt politicians buy their way in one way or another, usually with a promise of something for nothing (Rice Scheme in Thailand - Obamacare - Greek barbers that get government pensions at 50 years of age).

Agreed.

And since you know how the system works, you also know how easily is the populace manipulated and duped into voting the corrupt politicians into power.

Truth is, Greeks deserved far better governments than the ones they had for the past 30 years or so.

[Costas2008]

Difficult for me to answer here as whatever I say will be considered as biased.

We got our independence in 1828, after 400 years of occupation and slavery to the Turks.

We haven't got many natural resources and the Greek terrain mostly consists of bare rocky land, difficult for agriculture.

Manufacturing is nearly non existent.

Shipping was famous all over the world but the Greek ship owners decided to register their fleet with foreign flags so to avoid paying any taxes .

The only assets we had were tourism and our famous Greek Filoksenia.

Introducing Greece to the Euro has rocketed the tourist prices for the past 10-15 years.

So any advantage we had to other tourist orientated countries has disappeared.

I do agree that our introduction to the EU was not 100% genuine, but for us was a big step forward and a way getting out of poverty and misery we suffered for all those years.

Now the situation is that we are back to where we started and even worst.

Unemployment is high, people started starving, pensioners have seen their pensions cut in half, due to the austerity measures introduced by our EU partners.

I'm not saying that what they imposed on us is wrong, after all the loans have to be paid back.

But for how long are we expected to suffer?

For how many generations are we supposed to suffer?

People is known through history to revolt against poverty and suffering.

Why Greek people has to endure this?

Ask yourselves if you were in the same situation what you would have done.

Yes, I would accept the answer, you put yourselves in the shit you come out now if you can.

But it seems there is a change for us to come out.

Contrary to my believes, Russia and China are offering a helping hand.

I would take it as I can't see any other solution to our suffering.

[SheungWan]

First off, there are no corrupt nations just as there are no fascist nations.

There are corrupt and fascist politicians. Disgusting puppets that are there to expedite the orders of the elite that got them elected.

And when those elites are actually controlling the EU abolishing any sense of democratic governing and looking after only their personal interest, then it's time to run. Run as far away as possible.

So, go Greece and let fourth reich Germany rule over the rest of Europe.

AAAHhh, BUT, unless one is living under a coup-installed government, it was the populace that voted the corrupt politicians in.

The USA is no different.

Corrupt politicians buy their way in one way or another, usually with a promise of something for nothing (Rice Scheme in Thailand - Obamacare - Greek barbers that get government pensions at 50 years of age).

Agreed.

And since you know how the system works, you also know how easily is the populace manipulated and duped into voting the corrupt politicians into power.

Truth is, Greeks deserved far better governments than the ones they had for the past 30 years or so.

Actually no. The 'corrupt politicians' of the last government is a regular gig played out in Greece where the populace have systematically voted for one populist promise after another (for populism read free lunch) and just as in democracy a government is supposedly responsible to the electorate who voted for them, the electorate is responsible for the choices it makes. Don't bother playing the innocent, the game is clear for all to see now. Threadbare and shameless.

[zydeco]

I think it would be better if the author of this piece stuck to a topic he understands.

Greece got itself into deep poo because they were corrupt, created false accounts and spent money they did not have. They were bailed out and now do not want to pay the money back either in amount or in the timescales originally agreed.

When they have repaid what they were lent I then hope the EU kicks them out, freeloaders!

This author is a nutbar. His usual articles predict the imminent collapse of the US, while praising Putin, Russia, and China for their international humanitarianism. A kook. Probably can't get a tourist visa to the US for himself, so he takes it out writing these screwy editorials.

Edited February 6, 2015 by zydeco

[zydeco]

But for how long are we expected to suffer?

For how many generations are we supposed to suffer?

Addressing these two questions apart from the others, people suffer when they feel entitled to take something which they have not earned. Greeks feel that they are entitled to a First World lifestyle because others in Europe have it and they therefore think they deserve it, too. But why is any individual Greek born entitled to a standard of living better, say, than any Thai person? You yourself explain that Greece has no natural resources, no agriculture, and no manufacturing (it's actually vastly INFERIOR to Thailand in all three areas). It essentially is a Third World country that thinks it deserves a First World economy because the Germans have one. I would say the Greeks will need to suffer until they make the investment that turns to their only resource, their people, and trains them to generate wealth from their imagination, work, and commitment to labor. If they think they don't need to do that, that they can just keep cashing other people's checks, then they will always suffer. And they'll deserve to.

[soumanioco]

First off, there are no corrupt nations just as there are no fascist nations.

There are corrupt and fascist politicians. Disgusting puppets that are there to expedite the orders of the elite that got them elected.

And when those elites are actually controlling the EU abolishing any sense of democratic governing and looking after only their personal interest, then it's time to run. Run as far away as possible.

So, go Greece and let fourth reich Germany rule over the rest of Europe.

AAAHhh, BUT, unless one is living under a coup-installed government, it was the populace that voted the corrupt politicians in.

The USA is no different.

Corrupt politicians buy their way in one way or another, usually with a promise of something for nothing (Rice Scheme in Thailand - Obamacare - Greek barbers that get government pensions at 50 years of age).

Agreed.

And since you know how the system works, you also know how easily is the populace manipulated and duped into voting the corrupt politicians into power.

Truth is, Greeks deserved far better governments than the ones they had for the past 30 years or so.

Actually no. The 'corrupt politicians' of the last government is a regular gig played out in Greece where the populace have systematically voted for one populist promise after another (for populism read free lunch) and just as in democracy a government is supposedly responsible to the electorate who voted for them, the electorate is responsible for the choices it makes. Don't bother playing the innocent, the game is clear for all to see now. Threadbare and shameless.

Ok then. Shoot them because "the populace have systematically voted for one populist promise after another", right?

But even you should know that is was not the electorate who put the country into this mess. Even you should know that it was not the populace who spent all this money from the EU loans.

Must be nice in your world where everything is black and white.

But in actual life it never is.

[pmugghc]

I suggest checking the author's name in any article from The Nation before bothering to read. This guy has a track-record of anti-western, pro-Russia and China. Greece is about 2% of the Euro economies. The Euro will not collapse when Greece exits. But the people will get a third-world currency, tourism will probably go up when everything gets cheaper.

[Scott]

Difficult for me to answer here as whatever I say will be considered as biased.

We got our independence in 1828, after 400 years of occupation and slavery to the Turks.

We haven't got many natural resources and the Greek terrain mostly consists of bare rocky land, difficult for agriculture.

Manufacturing is nearly non existent.

Shipping was famous all over the world but the Greek ship owners decided to register their fleet with foreign flags so to avoid paying any taxes .

The only assets we had were tourism and our famous Greek Filoksenia.

Introducing Greece to the Euro has rocketed the tourist prices for the past 10-15 years.

So any advantage we had to other tourist orientated countries has disappeared.

I do agree that our introduction to the EU was not 100% genuine, but for us was a big step forward and a way getting out of poverty and misery we suffered for all those years.

Now the situation is that we are back to where we started and even worst.

Unemployment is high, people started starving, pensioners have seen their pensions cut in half, due to the austerity measures introduced by our EU partners.

I'm not saying that what they imposed on us is wrong, after all the loans have to be paid back.

But for how long are we expected to suffer?

For how many generations are we supposed to suffer?

People is known through history to revolt against poverty and suffering.

Why Greek people has to endure this?

Ask yourselves if you were in the same situation what you would have done.

Yes, I would accept the answer, you put yourselves in the shit you come out now if you can.

But it seems there is a change for us to come out.

Contrary to my believes, Russia and China are offering a helping hand.

I would take it as I can't see any other solution to our suffering.

Thanks for the reply, Costas, I worked for an organization that had a Satellite office in Athens back in the early 90's, before the Euro. It's a lovely country and I enjoyed my limited time there immensely.

I don't have a real opinion on what should or shouldn't happen, but it's sad that the whole situation wasn't managed better.

[Johpa]

.....I'm not saying that what they imposed on us is wrong, after all the loans have to be paid back.

But for how long are we expected to suffer?

For how many generations are we supposed to suffer?

People is known through history to revolt against poverty and suffering.

Why Greek people has to endure this?.....

Why do loans always have to be paid back to banks? Do the banks not voluntarily assess and accept the risk of default? Do they not structure the interest rates based upon that assessed risk? It is just a myth that banks are invincible. Other countries have defaulted on loans and even prospered and be given new loans in the future. Greece should default, suck up some tough years, and move forward. Once the country gets back up on its feet rest assured that their will be new people coming to the table to offer loans.

[Johpa]

And Costas, do not forget that apart from tourism, you have claim to Nikos Kazantzakis!

[BANGKOK WOLF]

Greece must do the best thing for the Greek people and that is to go bankrupt on their loans.

With a clean slate they can rebuild their economy.

If you are a bank and lent them money tough luck.

There is no guarantee on loans and banks should not loan to people that cant afford to pay back the money.

The banks wont loose as the interest payments have probably covered the loans already.

[BernieOnTour]

Greece must do the best thing for the Greek people and that is to go bankrupt on their loans.

With a clean slate they can rebuild their economy.

If you are a bank and lent them money tough luck.

There is no guarantee on loans and banks should not loan to people that cant afford to pay back the money.

The banks wont loose as the interest payments have probably covered the loans already.

Unfortunately for Greece, the "Grexit" would be the worst, what could happen to the Greeks and the best to the citizens of those countries, which bailed them out before (that does not necessarily mean, their politicians, lobbyists and banks see it like this...)

Without a new injection of Euro in February, the Greek government will not even be able to pay the salaries of those employed in the governmental sector.

Printing Drachmes sounds good at first - but, honestly: would the Greek themselves trust this money, which is not worth the paper, it is printed on - as the country is definitely bankrupt? So the split between the Haves (with foreign currency) and the Nohaves (with Drachmes) would increase increase further, Hyperinflation not unlikely.

As a consequence, relending on the international financial market would become nearly impossible. The "Grexit", combined with the experience -money lent to Greece is most likely lost- will lead to exorbitant interest rates, even if someone would really be prepared to lend them money. With what they want to pay it back? Their "effective" administration?, olive oil?, tourism? - where since years their competitors like Italia, Croatia, Turkey, Spain have built up better hotels, better marinas, better infrastructure?

The whole case reminds me of someone in a bed of an intensive care unit requiring continuous injections requesting "if you don't give me treatment for free, I'll cut everything off and try it myself with what I have left in my kitchen".

The BRIC options:

Well, I would question, if Russia -struggling to defend its own Ruble- would spent its foreign reserves on continuously financing a a country to its fullest extent for the coming 20-30 years, where the -no matter which- governments since decennials continuously fail in improving the situation.

China might be a theoretical option, but I would question, if the Greek would really like the conditions, which the Chinese as superb businessmen and politicians would impose on them. It will be like cast out devils by Beelzebub.

Edited February 7, 2015 by BernieOnTour

[Steely Dan]

Aside from Greek parochial considerations they would also be performing a great service to European citizens as a whole, that's if they declare bankruptcy. If the Euro collapses so too does the power base of the undemocratic federalist assassins of the nation state. Do this, reassert local cultures and then reintroduce border controls.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Steely Dan

[uptheos]

I think it would be better if the author of this piece stuck to a topic he understands.

Greece got itself into deep poo because they were corrupt, created false accounts and spent money they did not have. They were bailed out and now do not want to pay the money back either in amount or in the timescales originally agreed.

When they have repaid what they were lent I then hope the EU kicks them out, freeloaders!

And pleeease can they they kick us (UK) out at the same time.