arthurboy Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Re: Smoke and mirrors. Before, uncertainty and delay over the financial agreements. And now, suddenly, things are back on track. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/798047-standard-gauge-railway-proceeding-faster-than-planned-thai-minister-says/ Utter propagandist claptrap. Deal done, guaranteed - as was always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmj Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 No harm in asking but I think it will fall on deaf ears, and I wouldn't bring up japan in the request 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He said the ministry has also turned down Beijing’s demand to undertake the construction work as well as the system operation, saying that all the tasks would be the responsibility of the Thai government. The ministry will learn a lot more things when dealing with the Chinese, but to start with, the Chines bring their own people, materials and machinery. They don't use anything from their host country. And what is more, if they fail in their project, they just leave everything behind, including their people. Maybe General Happiness could have some talks with some African governments before signing anything with the Chinese. The Sudanese found learned this lesson 40 years ago when they negotiated a deal with the Soviet Union to buy their cotton crop. It was not until most of it had shipped and the first payment had arrived that the Finance Minister discovered that they were getting paid in rubles, one of the world's softest currencies. I was working there at the time and it was a big deal; calls for dealing with the ambassador as they had with Gordon. They ended up transporting the entire embassy staff to the airport under guard. I assume that the documents associated with deals at this level are in English? I can't imagine the chaos of translating between the two languages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 In the new promised world of Thai accountability, transparency, no corruption etc we have a deal seemingly turning sour over money.... Well who would of believed it! The answer is anyone with an ounce of common sense. Obviously we don't know the above is true as we have no information on any of the above....go figure. All we know is that trillions were approved before seemingly money or funding was even discussed. Looking forward to the lads coming on to speak about 50 year debts etc like under the PTP and now justifying debt somehow..... with this new transp..... OK I will bite , 20 years is better than 50 for starters , at least the figures are under a budget and open to scrutiny ,not off budget. Do you honestly believe the above story would even see the light of day under PTP it would be just another G2G deal kept secret for national security, why ohh why do you guys jump on anything the present govt is trying to achieve , don't harp on about transparency or accountability the past Govt had neither . "...why do you guys...". Who, are the "guys" being referred to? Specifics are much easier to defend than an ambiguous, finger-pointing gesture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIWIBATCH Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Don't want China to construct or provide materials, system maintenance (read...Thailand wants to apply their famous "shortcuts" to the construction work so that the "saving" can be placed into selected "troughs") Want China to reduce the interest % (read.....at the moment it is x%...so China reduces it to y%....Thai Govt tells the thai people that they have successfully negotiated a reduced interest rate from the Chinese of y%....when in fact it is y.5%....... .5% then gets put into the "trough" result....happiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well, I'll be darned. He should be impeached for negligence. LOL Ah, And why has Mr. Shinawatra been hanging out at his digs in Beijing ? It looks like the Junta may have stepped in something. Contracts are to be read before signing, even if your government came to be by force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 "If the negotiations [with China] do not succeed, we can borrow from local financial institutions as we have enough domestic liquidity for the project" Wow, these local financial institutions must be pretty rich, why bother with China if you can sort the loan out at home I wonder? Will the interest rate be so low at 2 to 4 per cent? The Banks are paying near that on short time money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the jungle Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It appears now that what they signed was a Memorandum Of No Understanding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 There you go !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 In the new promised world of Thai accountability, transparency, no corruption etc we have a deal seemingly turning sour over money.... Well who would of believed it! The answer is anyone with an ounce of common sense. Obviously we don't know the above is true as we have no information on any of the above....go figure. All we know is that trillions were approved before seemingly money or funding was even discussed. Looking forward to the lads coming on to speak about 50 year debts etc like under the PTP and now justifying debt somehow..... with this new transp..... OK I will bite , 20 years is better than 50 for starters , at least the figures are under a budget and open to scrutiny ,not off budget. Do you honestly believe the above story would even see the light of day under PTP it would be just another G2G deal kept secret for national security, why ohh why do you guys jump on anything the present govt is trying to achieve , don't harp on about transparency or accountability the past Govt had neither . "...why do you guys...". Who, are the "guys" being referred to? Specifics are much easier to defend than an ambiguous, finger-pointing gesture. So you would equally condemn phrases like "Looking forward to the lads coming on to speak about", as being equally ambiguous & finger-pointing, yes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLock Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I thought this Thai/China railway was more a "joint investment", where they both put in money or resources for the joint benefit...whatever that meant. I was not aware it was simply borrowing money from China to build the railway. China will outplay Thailand at every turn. This sounds like Thailand is going to lose a lot of face and upset China for backtracking on an MOU that was supposedly already signed and "ahead of plan". Hey Thailand...you might not want to alienate the US too much...you know...just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 " He said the ministry has also turned down Beijing’s demand to undertake the construction work as well as the system operation, saying that all the tasks would be the responsibility of the Thai government. " I find this statement worrying, just looking back on the BKK - Chiang Mai track maintenance. When I arrived here 3 years ago, derailments were almost a weekly feature. I had hoped that with experienced Chinese crews on the job, contracts and quality would be assured. Not that it will concern those of us living in Chiang Mai/. I've yet to see what's on offer for this province. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thailand feeling like a floozy in the bathroom realising her client only has 500 baht wishing she had been bar fined by her other regular.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Don't want China to construct or provide materials, system maintenance (read...Thailand wants to apply their famous "shortcuts" to the construction work so that the "saving" can be placed into selected "troughs") Want China to reduce the interest % (read.....at the moment it is x%...so China reduces it to y%....Thai Govt tells the thai people that they have successfully negotiated a reduced interest rate from the Chinese of y%....when in fact it is y.5%....... .5% then gets put into the "trough" result....happiness Result? A lot of accidents.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I like the 2-4% loan rate, a) does it mean China pays 2%, Thai pay 4% ? or for thai public: they pay 4%, but to china they pay only 2% , which is 0,5% less for them, as if they would go with Japan; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 "If the negotiations [with China] do not succeed, we can borrow from local financial institutions as we have enough domestic liquidity for the project" Wow, these local financial institutions must be pretty rich, why bother with China if you can sort the loan out at home I wonder? Will the interest rate be so low at 2 to 4 per cent? The Banks are paying near that on short time money where you get in Thailand 4% for short term money ?? please tell us , we keen to drop our money there !! and not get back rubels ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manhood Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well the better deal would ever be with the Japanese! Better knowledge in train systems and high speed train systems as i experianced by myself And sure provide a better quality for lower interest but maybe not as good to deal with corrupotion activities this and any other project will garantee to the ones who are involved in Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickirs Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Govt may tap funds locally for rail projectThe Nation BANGKOK: -- The government is mulling whether to borrow money from local financial institutions to fund the Bt400-billion Thai-China dual-track rail project if a funding deal cannot be reached with Beijing."Thailand needs lending interest rate below 2 per cent annually. If the negotiations [with China] do not succeed, we can borrow from local financial institutions as we have enough domestic liquidity for the project," Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong said yesterday after the second meeting of the Thai-Chinese joint committee on cooperation for the rail project.He made the comment after the Chinese administration offered loans for the project, but at an interest rate and with conditions Thailand reportedly deemed unacceptable.The meeting aimed to set the stage for the final meeting between the two governments in China from Wednesday to Friday next week.Prajin said the upcoming meeting would finalise the investment details and he expected the design and survey work to start this or next month if there were no problems.Deputy PM Pridiyathorn Devakula said there would be no problem getting loans from local financial institutions to fund the project.After meeting Li Yong, head of the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation, Pridiyathorn said Li had praised the government's attempts to improve the industrial sector.He also briefed Li on a proposal by the Chinese government for the two countries to jointly seek a loan from the Export-Import Bank of China to fund the dual-rail project, but the offered interest rate was higher than what had been offered by the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) in the past, according to MCOT.The Chinese bank had offered a loan with an interest rate ranging from 2-4 per cent and a four-year interest-free period with the following conditions: Use Chinese technology for the project, give China responsibility for the design and civil work and let China manage the routes, MCOT said. Thailand maintained it must manage the routes, it said, noting that the JICA interest rate for the Airport Rail Link was only 1.5 per cent. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Govt-may-tap-funds-locally-for-rail-project-30253616.html -- The Nation 2015-02-07 "If the negotiations [with China] do not succeed, we can borrow from local financial institutions as we have enough domestic liquidity for the project" NO. Those are commercial financial institutions and they charge for profit. Their interest rates are usually PRIME (set by Bank of Thailand) + MARKUP. The GOVERNMENT can borrow from itself at Prime through issuance of treasury bonds and save on payment of institution interest markup. Thailand's below 50% debt to GDP gives it adequate collateral not to have to go to commercial institutions and not to have to pay high interest on its bonds. The Junta shouldn't have agreed to let the Chinese finance 80% of the rail cost over 20 years in the first place; it does not add to Thailand's GDP growth rate, only to China's growth rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerbri Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 This what happens when you do a deal with "family" instead of doing the deal with "friends" So here is how it goes. China offers to finance your railway as long as you use their banks for the loan and pay higher interest rates, use their labour to build, allow them to purchase the land the tracks go through and to cap it all allow them to run the rail system once complete. Can any one tell me who the naive fools are here? Oh and buy the way I understand China has a few old submarines they want rid of. Once again Thailand can borrow the money from the Chinese bank. What a great brother China is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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