My USA Fidelity Brokerage Account

[CaptHaddock]

Why do you start your response by calling someone "Dumb"? Your communication would have been more effective had you just left out the first two words.

Would you feel better if I called it "an extremely naive move?" What did you hope to accomplish by telling them that you live in Thailand? You must have known there was no advantage to you to do so plus an uncertain risk of action to your detriment, which is what happened, of course. But now you know, right? So going forward you realize that there is no advantage to you in informing US institutions that you live in Thailand except those that insist on it with the force of law such as the Social Security Administration or the IRS? That way, your life will be less complicated and I can resist the "D" word in the future? Right?

[csabo]

Charles Schwab sends all of my account statements and tax documents directly to my Thai address. They definitely know I am in Thailand. Not only that, but I have been trading SET and PSE counters for more than 10 years as well. I just called them two nights ago.

I use IRA accounts, Roth and old law.

I have all the same services I ever had with Schwab in the USA, and I have been with them since the 1980's as my US stock broker.... and since 2005 as to SET and PSE counters (NVDR shares as to Thailand). I receive the dividends in my IRA to the last satang after Thai W/H etc etc. But I have to wait until nighttime to call them for trades.

The only issue is that because Charles Schwab is a US broker, they must use a Thai intermediary to make the trades and they are allowed, and they do as practice, register the securities in the name of a nominee. As such you do not have those orange mailers from the TSD which we can get tax refunds with because we live here.

Believe me, the fact that I have had and still have full service from Charles Schwab is the most important financial factor in my life here in Thailand. For SET and PSE trades you do not do that from "international services" but by asking for "global trading".

Maybe the problem is that you still have a home in California! I sold mine before I left for Thailand. Torrance CA.

And given that my defined benefit pensions as well as US Social Security are dollar based, I have never lost any sleep over any recovery or further recovery in the Thai Baht.... although it is unlikely to extend much further at this stage... given the demographics, in many aspects, as well as the politics. So I'm long the PSE, not so much Thailand anymore in general.

Keep it a secret I'm in Thailand?

They have dozen of letters from here of my complaints that the shares are not registered in my name so I can get the orange mailings.

They need to put airmail postage on my account statements.

My Thai phone number shows on their displays when I make trades.

They even know to get it all done while I am on the line and not to call me back because of where I am calling from.

Enough said.

Yay for you. I was invited to purchase shares in a recent US IPO with one stipulation. I must open a new Fidelity account. So you don't always get to chose your brokerage FYI.

[RickNew]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why do you start your response by calling someone "Dumb"? Your communication would have been more effective had you just left out the first two words.

Would you feel better if I called it "an extremely naive move?" What did you hope to accomplish by telling them that you live in Thailand? You must have known there was no advantage to you to do so plus an uncertain risk of action to your detriment, which is what happened, of course. But now you know, right? So going forward you realize that there is no advantage to you in informing US institutions that you live in Thailand except those that insist on it with the force of law such as the Social Security Administration or the IRS? That way, your life will be less complicated and I can resist the "D" word in the future? Right?

Why do you feel it's necessary to call anybody, anything? Dumb, Extremely Naive, etc.? Why don't you simply answer the question with facts? I don't understand why name calling is necessary? No one else on this topic has done it. Only you.

[CMBob]

This is not a new SEC Policy, I ran into the same problem in 2007 with Scott Trade. If you live outside the US the law doesn't allow you to trade. You have to either lie and find a way to spoof your IP address. And of course use a US mailing address.

I have a Schwab account and I have no issue trading from here. Just bought some stock a few weeks ago without a problem (just a few clicks on my computer here in Chiangmai). I also access other financial accounts (my bank, Fidelity - although it's not a brokerage account, and others) from here without any problem.

All the accounts have my US address and I suspect, as has been noted, that the OP's problem was explaining his residence situation to the Fidelity person. Fidelity calls me once a year too but, other than wishing them a good day, I don't and won't discuss anything else with them (not because I'm hiding anything but because I don't need or want their assistance).

[Tony125]

Try having someone send you a MagicJack device that can be used on your computer or router. Gives you a USA phone number from whatever city or state you chose. Can use it to make free calls to USA from anywhere in the world. Also can use a VPN to give your computer an address in USA when you log in

[gk10002000]

Sorry, but I am not understanding exactly what Fidelity is complaining about. If somebody has a lot of money or income and travels a lot or stays outside of the USA for a year or more, that makes them unable to use Fidelity? What "rule" or "law" is Fidelity squawking about? A specific answer from somebody in management at Fidelity might help, not some low level financial or portfolio advisor.

I travel several times a year, have holidayed in Thailand for two months at a time. I happen to use Etrade and I log in now and then make a few trades or move some money around, etc. Yes I have a US address and reside there, but that doesn't mean I am always there. Gosh, lots of people take sabbaticals, walkabouts, travel the world etc. One is not a resident of Thailand just because you stay there a long time. Now if you have a visa extension based on retirement, you might be considred a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, but I don't know of any "rules" that actually prohibit you from using or keeping retirement accounts active in the USA. If there are some on the books I would love to know the specifics.

Anyway, this has been a good thread. I have Etrade as my main broker and bank and am about to open a Schwaub and roll over the last two years 401k from this contract firm I have been with and now leaving.

Thanks

[eppic]

This happened to me with Fidelity (aka "Fido") a couple of years ago. At that time, I had actually had been living and using a mailing address in Singapore for years, but out of nowhere received a notice that my (private client) account would need to be closed. I simply switched the mailing address to the U.S., told them that I had moved back there, and all was good. No issues since then, and I am sure they don't surreptitiously track IP addresses to stop trading from outside the U.S. In fact, they told me they were ok with mailing addresses in certain countries, but Singapore was not one of them.

I also have personal accounts with Schwab (US for me, UK for my wife) and professional accounts with Interactive Brokers. IB is set up specifically to deal with international traders and markets, so they may be good for your needs, but you will get very little hand holding and customer service, if you need that. I have actually been considering dumping Fidelity and moving those funds to either Schwab or IB, but so far have kept accounts at Fido more for asset diversification purposes and multiple ATM access choices.

For sure, you can get your needs met through Schwab and/or IB. IB accounts can be opened up very quickly by scanning a few documents, submitting them, and doing an ACH transfer from Fido. IB can also do free international wire transfers once monthly, so that's a big advantage, but it doesn't have the (fee-free) ATM withdrawals that Fido and Schwab have.

Edited February 12, 2015 by eppic

[gk10002000]

So Fido has fee free ATM withdrawals for overseas ATMs but they don't like it if you are overseas?

[hawker9000]

There must be some new laws coming into action. I have Vanguard IRA and Brokerage accounts. Prior to establishing the Brokerage account just last year if I asked for a wire transfer to Thailand from my IRA account it was ok. However, this year, after establishing my Brokerage account I asked for a transfer of funds to a Bank in Thailand. They told me that they could not do it anymore since I established the Brokerage account. I asked why and they just told that it is the rules now. If you have a brokerage account that they cannot send money out of the country to me.

I said to them well cancel the brokerage account and they said no it is too late you already combined the accounts. It sounded ridiculous to me. I had to ultimately transfer money from the IRA to another Bank in the U.S.A. and then have them transfer the lump sum to me in Thailand. I think there is something going on with the U.S. "G" forcing banks to do this. Maybe there are other reporting requirements for Banks who do this from Brokerage accounts. Just a thought.

They say they can't send money out of the country from your brokerage account, or from the IRA account, or either one? I can sort of see them maybe not wanting to send money from the IRA, but unless you have a margin balance or somesuch in your brokerage account, I can't understand why they would deny foreign wire transfer services from an unencumbered brokerage account. And I can't believe there's any such new blanket policy. There's got to be more to this.

'Not living in Thailand, but have always had a Fidelity brokerage account, and make wire transfers from it to a Thai bank just as you're describing all the time when traveling in Thailand. No Fidelity IRAs though - but am thinking about moving my IRAs & a 401-K there. There's definitely no prohibition on wire transfers from Fidelity brokerage accounts that I know of, unless it's an issue with large transfers (maybe over $10K). U.S., not Thai, address & phone numbers associated with the Fidelity account, almost all other assets, on my tax returns, etc.

eppic above mentions problems with a Singapore address. I wonder if this might have something to do with certain countries whose banks are dragging their feet WRT U.S. disclosure "requirements".

Edited February 12, 2015 by hawker9000

[Langsuan Man]

I'm sorry but I can't understand why this happened to the OP

I have Fidelity accounts in the US and use my US address for them. Fidelity obviously knows that I am in Thailand because they reimburse the ATM fees charged by Thai banks

Now I will admit that Fidelity has moved my accounts to what they call Fidelity Premium Services but that only means that I have unlimited reimbursements of my ATM fees so I am at a loss as to why the OP has had this problem

Before I would do anything else I would call Fidelity at their International toll free number and talk with a different representative and tell them that you are only in Thailand part time and maintain a US residence

Thailand 001-800-544-66666 Number can be dialed directly.

[ghworker2010]

gday, if you want to appear online via a U.S server then pay for a VPN. i.e. you live in thailand but log onto your VPN on your computer here and connect to the U.S server. I use zenmaster but they dont have servers in the U.S - only europe and hong kong. But there are many VPN's that have servers in the U.S.

Pm me if you need more info

[Langsuan Man]

gday, if you want to appear online via a U.S server then pay for a VPN. i.e. you live in thailand but log onto your VPN on your computer here and connect to the U.S server. I use zenmaster but they dont have servers in the U.S - only europe and hong kong. But there are many VPN's that have servers in the U.S.

Pm me if you need more info

I have never had to use a VPN to do online business with any of my US banks or brokerage houses from Thailand and that is not the OP's problem

[hawker9000]

I'm sorry but I can't understand why this happened to the OP

I have Fidelity accounts in the US and use my US address for them. Fidelity obviously knows that I am in Thailand because they reimburse the ATM fees charged by Thai banks

Now I will admit that Fidelity has moved my accounts to what they call Fidelity Premium Services but that only means that I have unlimited reimbursements of my ATM fees so I am at a loss as to why the OP has had this problem

Before I would do anything else I would call Fidelity at their International toll free number and talk with a different representative and tell them that you are only in Thailand part time and maintain a US residence

Thailand 001-800-544-66666 Number can be dialed directly.

Fidelity Premium Services is simply a service level obtained by maintaining a certain minimum aggregate balance in your Fidelity accounts. You get some extra benefits like free international wire transfers (and apparently the ATM fee reimbursements you mention). If you're not at that level, you should still be able to make the wire transfers - you just pay the normal fees. And while I can see them maybe being restricted in executing securities trading orders from non-resident clients, I can't understand why they'd refuse to make international transfers. Some trigger's being tripped or there's some miscommunication, but darned if I know what it is. If it were to happen to me, I'd simply keep kicking it up the chain until I got hold of somebody competent enough to unravel things, and if that didn't work, I'd move my accounts (being sure to let them know why I was doing it). 'Had problems with E-Trade awhile back, and being unable to get them to unfrack themselves, I just moved. They didn't start to sit up & take notice until I did that, but by then I considered it all too little too late. I wouldn't hesitate to do that with Fidelity (or anybody else) if they gave me sufficient reason.

[Dogmatix]

I have an Etrade US account which sends statements to my Thai address. I enquired once with Interactive Brokers and they said they could open a US based account for me.

[WonnabeBiker]

Yeah, another Chicago based broker forced me to close the account and re-open a foreign based account.

Lots of red tape and silly AML rules. come on, our nest egg and AML? Years of tax returns. someone is going berserk over there, regarding all kinds of investment as "AML material".

Couldn't even do an ACAT transfer. Months later, it's all over now.

Welcome to a brave new world. But then, I'm not a citizen - i would fight this tooth and nail! FINRA? Give it a try.

[DrDave]

I had a 401(k) account with Fidelity, with an assigned account manager.

About a year ago, I rolled this account over to a Fidelity IRA, and was assigned a new account manager (advisor). Before doing the rollover, I mentioned to account manager #1 that I was moving to Thailand, at which point he told me that he would not be able to initiate with any trades due to licensing restrictions, but I was free to make trades online though Fidelity.com.

After rolling over to the IRA, I had a face-to-face meeting with my fidelity advisor. We discussed my moving to Thailand during a portfolio review, and he also re-affirmed that I am free to make trades online though the Fidelity website.

I've been able to trade online without any problems, although as JingThing mentioned, sometimes a message pops up during login where they detect that you are outside of the US - but no restrictions are imposed. Consider the fact that someone could be on a short business trip outside of the US - they certainly aren't going to block trading just because a customer isn't in the US at the time they place a trade order.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I use a relative's address in the US as my address of record for all of my US banking and brokerage accounts. All accounts are setup for paperless delivery, so no mail is ever received at this address.

[RickNew]

Thank you DrDave and everyone else who has replied.

I received an "official" email yesterday from Fidelity that they will no longer manage my portfolio. I was also told that I can not make trades, all I can do is sell. This is simply because of SEC regulations.

They further explained that "once I reestablish residence in the US they will continue to manage my portfolio".

I am now aware of my many options thanks to everyones input here on TV. Thank you!!

[asiaexpat]

I have had fidelity account, both IRA and trading, for over 20 years and lived and worked in several foreign countries while using fidelity. I live much of the year in Thailand but maintain tax residence in the USA and have a USA address. I communicate via email and manage my accounts via internet with no problems. One solution may be to get a VPN for all USA financial communications/management that you do online. Set the VPN to a California site.

[hhgz]

I had a similar situation with a different broker. Although I was allowed to have accounts with it, the broker was not allowed to make investment recommendations.

[Mike45]

I have received emails this week from Fidelity.

I call and asked about them but the representative really had no idea what it was all about but tried to explain that it has to do with the core account not being an FDIC account.

She also asked if I had a margin account and I told her No.

I did not admit that I live outside the USA. They don't have my foreign address info. The rep told me everyone received this email.

"The customer agreement and related documentation (the "Agreement") that governs certain Fidelity accounts is being amended. You are receiving this letter because one or more of your accounts with Fidelity is affected by these changes.

These amendments will, among other things, change the operation of your core account, modify the process used to settle debits and credits in your account, and clarify Fidelity's existing policies for customers who reside outside the United States. A brief description of some of the changes follows below, but because their scope goes beyond what is described here, please refer to Fidelity.com/2015Agreements. There you can see which types of accounts are affected and read the amended Agreement.

Core Account

The revised "Core Account" section of the Agreement provides for alternative procedures when Fidelity determines you reside outside the United States in a country other than Canada. The amendments alter both the way Fidelity sweeps balances in and out of your core account as well as options in which these balances can be held. Generally speaking, under these alternative procedures, if you use the Taxable Interest-Bearing Option as your core position, you will, in most cases, be unable to select a different option. If you use any other option as your core position, such as a money market mutual fund or the FDIC-Insured Deposit Sweep, in most cases the process of sweeping funds to your core account will be suspended. You will be unable to add to your existing core position balance (except as the result of a dividend reinvestment or the deposit of accrued interest), and uninvested funds in the Account will be held as a free-credit balance.

Settling Debits and Credits

The modifications to the "How Transactions Are Settled" section of the Agreement address two issues. First, the changes to the settlement methodology accommodate situations where the process of sweeping funds to your core account has been suspended (as described above). In addition, the hierarchy of sources used by Fidelity to satisfy debits in your account is being reordered. As a result, Fidelity will use shares of certain Fidelity money market funds in your account before using any margin credit that may be available.

Customers Residing Outside the United States

A new section of the Agreement entitled "Residing Outside the United States" provides details on Fidelity's existing policies for customers that Fidelity determines reside in another country.

These changes become effective on October 9, 2015 (the "Effective Date"), provided, however, that existing customers may be afforded a grace period prior to implementation.

You are not required to take any action at this time, but if you have any questions, would like a copy of the amended Agreement, or wish to discuss alternative options available to you due to these changes, please call a Fidelity investment professional at 800-544-6666. If you do not contact Fidelity before the Effective Date, Fidelity will consider you to have acknowledged and agreed to be bound by the terms of the amended Agreement."

[watcharacters]

My accounts are both IRA and Brokerage. I use my USA address on the accounts.

When you log on just agree to their international agreement.

You will no longer have any issue.

Ciao,

[Jingthing]

My accounts are both IRA and Brokerage. I use my USA address on the accounts.

When you log on just agree to their international agreement.

You will no longer have any issue.

Ciao,

No you don't understand. There is a big and severe change coming Oct.15. I will post the text later.

[Jingthing]

I am wondering if they lock IRA accounts from buying or selling which is being threatened whether they will allow a full transfer of all assets to another IRA company?

To find out they would either already know you live abroad or you would tell them. I agree be wary of telling them.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[partington]

I am wondering if they lock IRA accounts from buying or selling which is being threatened whether they will allow a full transfer of all assets to another IRA company?

To find out they would either already know you live abroad or you would tell them. I agree be wary of telling them.

What is this change? Can you give a clue? I haven't received any email and I have a Fidelity IRA, and they have my address as non-US. What are they doing now?

It is already not possible to trade in funds in the IRA- are they restricting this further???

[Mike45]

I am wondering if they lock IRA accounts from buying or selling which is being threatened whether they will allow a full transfer of all assets to another IRA company?

To find out they would either already know you live abroad or you would tell them. I agree be wary of telling them.

What is this change? Can you give a clue? I haven't received any email and I have a Fidelity IRA, and they have my address as non-US. What are they doing now?

It is already not possible to trade in funds in the IRA- are they restricting this further???

I just posted the content of the email a few posts above.

[Mike45]

My accounts are both IRA and Brokerage. I use my USA address on the accounts.

When you log on just agree to their international agreement.

You will no longer have any issue.

Ciao,

No you don't understand. There is a big and severe change coming Oct.15. I will post the text later.

Jing

I also received the email. I posted about it with the content in post #50. Do you understand the changes? Please explain. Thanks

[Craig krup]

Everyone's frightened of the US authorities. In the UK I have to click a box that says, "I confirm that I am not a US person". I forgot to click it once and the trade didn't go through. I read Gary Mulgrew's book "Gang of One" about his time in Big Spring prison. Nobody, but nobody, wants to attract the attention of US authorities.

[alocacoc]

This all is scary stuff. I'm a non us-citizen and a non-us resident. I have a account at a US broker. This broker begun Years ago to close accounts of residents of specific countries like Australia, Indonesia, Germany, Italy and so on. My country is not affected so far. I just did open a new account.

I just found a report which may be give a deeper sight into the topic.

Why US Brokerage Accounts of American Expats are Being Closed (2015)

http://thunfinancial.com/us-brokerage-accounts-american-expats-closed-2015/

Why are non-U.S. Residents Restricted from Owning U.S. Mutual Funds?

As recently reported in the Wall Street Journal and other media outlets, many U.S. mutual fund companies recently introduced new policies preventing their funds from being purchased by non-U.S. residents, including Americans abroad. Many expats are surprised to learn that rules barring the sale of most U.S. registered mutual funds to non-residents are decades old. Previously, these long-standing limitations on ownership were seldom enforced. Recently, however, mutual fund companies modified due diligence procedures to compel more rigorous compliance with existing rules. Stepped-up enforcement of existing rules reflects the new environment of enhanced cross-border compliance and regulation among banks and brokerage firms.

Mutual fund distribution agreements typically mandate that mutual fund owners reside domestically in the United States for two main reasons. First, U.S. fund groups are not allowed to solicit overseas business for their SEC-registered funds, even from U.S. expatriates. Offering shares of mutual funds to non-domestic clients could potentially violate the laws of any country in which an investor or prospective investor in a fund is resident or domiciled. Second, mutual funds may make tax treaty claims on their holdings, which require funds to certify all shareholders are resident in the United States.

How can Americans Living Abroad Invest?

....

Finally, it should also be noted that in many cases the best solution for Americans abroad is simply to keep their address of record in the U.S. Any American living abroad, even for an extended period, is well within their rights to use a U.S. address for the sake of opening accounts and receiving mail. In this case, there will be no restrictions on the account.

______________________

I didn't know that US-expats could become also trouble. I thought, for a person like me it could be a solution to form a LLC in Delaware and open a account on this LLC. But even this would not be longer helpful. So, i can only hope my broker will continue to do business. The only thing i have to do is to fill out the W8-ben form every 3 years.

Edited August 8, 2015 by alocacoc

[partington]

My accounts are both IRA and Brokerage. I use my USA address on the accounts.

When you log on just agree to their international agreement.

You will no longer have any issue.

Ciao,

No you don't understand. There is a big and severe change coming Oct.15. I will post the text later.

Jing

I also received the email. I posted about it with the content in post #50. Do you understand the changes? Please explain. Thanks

Neither the post nor the email seemed very clear to me. I went to the Fidelity site and looked at the conditions for IRAs, and providing they are up to date, do not seem to change very much in my particular case at least.

It seems like any cash generated by sales, or dividends from existing holdings could be transferred periodically (a sweep) into an FDIC protected account in one or more banks that you were able to specify on the initial application, or kept in a money market fund, ( Fidelity Cash reserves). But now, if you are not US resident these two alternatives have been suspended and this money is now held in something called " intraday credit" instead.

I can't work out whether this means it is then unusable for transactions within the account, which I guess would be a major difference.

However you are already barred from buying mutual funds within these accounts, although you can still buy ETFs. Whether this means if you sell a currently held ETF within your IRA (which non-US residents are technically allowed to do still) the proceeds must go into an intraday credit account that non-US residents can't then access to for example buy a different ETF, I don't know.

AS any dividends I have in my account are all auto-re invested, and I am not allowed to make any further deposits to the IRA, I can't see this change having much effect, as the IRA is pretty much unmodifiable by me at this point.

Perhaps selling equity ETFs and buying bond ETFs, in order to decrease risk of the account as you get older now becomes impossible-if you cannot access any proceeds to make new purchases?

Maybe someone who understands all this better can help? I never paid any attention to FDIC sweeps as I never knew what they were.

[Craig krup]

The only thing i have to do is to fill out the W8-ben form every 3 years.

Having gone through the nightmare of getting a taxpayer identification number by either 1) posting your passport to (IIRC) Arizona for three months, or 2) turning up with colour photocopies but no mobile phone to one of a few consulates at specific times and applying to have a certified copy of your passport created - in the office marked, "Beware of the leopard".

Let's face it, they don't want to help you because they get money by not helping you. The pennies I can't reclaim on Kindle books all trickle into the US treasury.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Craig krup