Noob questions about riding manual

[SukhumvitFan42]

Hi all

Finally got my hands on my used cbr150r. Haven't discovered any hidden surprises after day 2 so growing in confidence:)

I'm learning to drive manual so have a few questions, some (all) of which may be stupid:

1) Can you feather the clutch in gears besides 1st? Like if going over a speed bump in gear 2 I've been feathering. But in a car my instructor (10 yrs ago) stressed that with manual transmission cars they are designed to only have the clutch feathered in 1st gear. I suspect it is fine with wet clutch motorcycles, but want to run it by you guys

2) With my bike the neutral light works when the bike is first turned on, but if I change it into first and back into neutral once the ignition is running, the light doesn't come on. Can anybody confirm if old carb 150s are all like this? Or if this is a minor defect :/

3) Does anyone ever look at RPM to know when to switch up or down? I have a full-face and am not sure I could hear when the revs are too high under my helmet

Thanks guys

[papa al]

yes

no, defect

yes ++

[Carol Jadzia]

1/ You can feather the clutch in any gear you choose. But normally you only need to when pulling away in first. You are right to notice the Motorcycle has a wet clutch. This does make a lot of difference and enables a bike to slip the clutch for a far longer period than expected of a dry e.g Car clutch. If you are doing it for a long period however - you will have problems with the clutch over heating.

A good tip for slow riding control is to slip or 'feather' the clutch a little when trying to ride really slowly. This means you can keep the engine revs high enough to produce power while also allowing the bike to progress more slowly than when the clutch is fully engaged. You can use the back brake of the bike to control your speed. If you practice this technique you will know when you have got it right as your slow riding abilities will improve ten fold.

2/ Neutral lights do that often. It normally means you have not selected neutral properly. Sometimes it is just the selector has not located properly. But sometimes you can get what are called 'False Neutrals' which is basically between two gears.

[Shurup]

1 & 2 as the above 2 posters said.

3 - no. A little practice and you will know your bike as the back of your hand and will know/feel when to shift. I don't always hear the revs (I'm half deaf) but I don't look down at the RPMs. 2 of my bikes don't even have tachometers.

[SukhumvitFan42]

Thanks for those replies.

So to those who use the tach, what numbers are you changing up/down at?

[dave_boo]

You get to know the feel of the bike and shift accordingly.

When I was riding the CBR150 I usually had it pretty revved out as I am a fat bastard. If you're looking for more sedate riding, keep it around 4-5K. I wouldn't expect anything to happen below that.

[OmegaRacer]

I never look at the tachometer. I'm modifying my SR at the moment and it won't even have it.

With a bit of experience, changing gears will become automatic just like breathing.

Enjoy your new ride!

[Shurup]

Thanks for those replies.

So to those who use the tach, what numbers are you changing up/down at?

It will depend on a bike, there are no written rules.

Cruiser style bikes are low revving and have lots of low end torque so no need to rev high to upshift.

Sports bikes are hi revving so normally you upshift at higher RPMs as they're not very torque-e at the lower RPMs.

And then we have so many bikes at a whole range of displacements from 150cc and up to 2000+ cc so your up/down shifting will differ from bike to bike.

Like I said there's no written rules, but as a rule of thumb, the quicker you want to accelerate, the higher in RPM range your shifts will be. If you up/down shift, release the clutch and give it some gas, if you feel like it's not pulling hard enough, it means the RPMs are a little too low. No problems with that, kick it down one (or two) gears more. Don't worry about stalling the engine or anything if you upshift too early (or downshift not early enough on deceleration), it won't stall, it just won't pull.

Remember, the sports bikes are high revving with all their power at high RPMs. If it doesn't pull, your gear choice is too low.

[Familyonthemove]

Good advice in posts above. Try not look at the tachometer when riding - much better to look up the road. Engine sound and vibration will tell you when to change. The aim is to always to be in the correct gear so you will have instant power when you open the throttle. You will get to know the right gear to achieve this aim and the associated engine sound by trial and error. If it bogs down when you try to pull away - use a lower gear next time. My bike is manual but has no tacho - tach is really only needed for racing.

Don't forget to practice emergency braking before you need it! Front brake does most the stopping. And always look where you want to go.

[papa al]

Red area [>11,500rpm] is not for sustained operation; otherwise, up to you.

If you go low revs you will get really good fuel economy.

I like to cruse @ 8-9000.

For highway passing, maybe 4th gear shifting @ ~11.5 usually works.

Remember sir, this is a City Racing Bike.

[dave_boo]

Red area [>11,500rpm] is not for sustained operation; otherwise, up to you.

If you go low revs you will get really good fuel economy.

I like to cruse @ 8-9000.

For highway passing, maybe 4th gear shifting @ ~11.5 usually works.

Remember sir, this is a City Racing Bike.

CRB????

[dave_boo]

papa paraphrase, okay?

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and toilets in Juarez.

[SukhumvitFan42]

Sweet, read through all that and feel a lot clearer now. Just need to put some km under my belt and try and get the feel of the bike bearing those numbers in mind.

And advice on practising emergency stops though? Do I want to pull the clutch all the way in immediately, or leave it out a little to use the engine breaking?

[Carol Jadzia]

Sweet, read through all that and feel a lot clearer now. Just need to put some km under my belt and try and get the feel of the bike bearing those numbers in mind.

And advice on practising emergency stops though? Do I want to pull the clutch all the way in immediately, or leave it out a little to use the engine breaking?

If it's an emergency stop are you worried if the engine stalls? Or is it that you concentrate on stopping as quick as you can?

But when practicing its better not to practice so hard you fall off!

Edited February 12, 2015 by Carol Jadzia

[papa al]

During full performance braking, I clutch.

If the engine is stalling and bucking you'll have a tougher time keeping skids under control.

It is a nice light bike.

Easier to recover in a slow speed squirrelly situations. +

[Shurup]

Don't let the engine stall!

I remember back when I took my riding school in Canada (I was already riding bikes before that just wanted to hone my skills and it was the best money spent), we were practicing the emergency breaking. What you want to do is pull the clutch (while breaking) in and kick it into the 1st gear, just in case to be ready and go to avoid anyone who might be breaking hard behind you.

If nobody is behind you, that's fine but if there is a car behind, you don't want to get rear-ended. Can't do nothing when the engine is dead.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Shurup

[ktm jeff]

Danger doesnt always come from the front .Good advice. Always have an escape route / way out .

[ll2]

1- yes you can at any gear.

2- a minor defect i guess but how come possible not sure. Maybe you cannot find the neutral nicely as if it the green neutral light is working at the start, it has to work later on too.

3- For spirited rides normally right after peak power. Better change the gears when revs are within the power band. But in the city, you might need to run at low revs and that is OK.

[Carol Jadzia]

Don't let the engine stall!

I remember back when I took my riding school in Canada (I was already riding bikes before that just wanted to hone my skills and it was the best money spent), we were practicing the emergency breaking. What you want to do is pull the clutch (while breaking) in and kick it into the 1st gear, just in case to be ready and go to avoid anyone who might be breaking hard behind you.

If nobody is behind you, that's fine but if there is a car behind, you don't want to get rear-ended. Can't do nothing when the engine is dead.

Your argument is flawed, here is why. The moment you pull the clutch in you have lost engine breaking, this will cause your stopping distance to be increased.

When we teach 'Emergency Breaking' it is as if "someone has stepped into the road in front of you" . Either way I want the bike to stop as quickly as I can for what ever reason. Do you really think that if you had to stop in an emergency you are really going to have time to worry about what gear you are in? I can guarantee you that it will not be first. Well not unless your 'Emergency" was not so much of an emergency in the first place (Controlled stopping). Under European Driving Standards your early clutch pull during emergency stop on test would have got you a instant fail under 'Serious.'

I totally agree that once you have stopped you are in danger from behind and you should take action immediately. Look behind for starters. Most modern bikes have electric starts and once you have looked you have a variety of options.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Carol Jadzia

[Carol Jadzia]

During full performance braking, I clutch.

If the engine is stalling and bucking you'll have a tougher time keeping skids under control.

It is a nice light bike.

Easier to recover in a slow speed squirrelly situations. +

Did you know that Pirelli tyres recommend that in the dry with the bike upright - 90% of your breaking is done with the front wheel?

Did you know the front brake should always come on slightly before the back one?

By pulling the clutch in you have only further lost control.

[Shurup]

Sorry I don't see how engine breaking will help with anything that a little more pressure on a rear break can't do, the rear breaking will only be efficient as long as the rear tire keeps traction and any bike's rear break can overcome that force. In case of bike with ABS breaks, you just jam your breaks and its as good as your breaking can get, engine breaking will help with nothing, and this adds to your previous comment that most of the breaking is done by the front breaks.

I'm trying really hard to understand the purpose of engine breaking during emergency, please elaborate and help me (and others) understand.

FYI, if I stall my bike's engine, the rear tyre will start skidding and it will not start again if I try to "push" start it while still rolling, so here you go - stalled engine - complete traction loss. Ducati Diavel.

It stalls sometimes when it gets too hot (never overheated though), it will start running very rough and in stop and go traffic when you sit part time sliding your clutch and part time rolling with clutch in, it dies, dropping the clutch will not restart the bike (this bike) and there was enough weight on the rear as I was riding with pillion.

[Shurup]

To add to the previous reply, engine breaking is efficient when the engine is at high RPM. Anyone who's ever been on a long steep downhill slope will know that, at low RPM there's no engine breaking. I don't see anyone riding around revving their engines through the roof, unless they're on a race track.

[papa al]

The rear brake can easily apply >100% of the force needed to slow the rear tire.

No need to complify with bucking engine 'braking.'

Did you know that Pirelli tyres recommend that in the dry with the bike upright - 90% of your breaking is done with the front wheel?

I rarely talk to my tires and they never talk to me.

On hard, hard breaking my rear tire comes off the pavement, in which case 100% of the braking is on the front.

Saying 90/10% or 70/30% is just silly.

Did you know the front brake should always come on slightly before the back one?

Why? In gentle braking or in loose stuff I might never touch the front brake.

By pulling the clutch in you have only further lost control.

Says who? Bunk!

[Yes I know; very strange, indeed.]

'

Edited February 13, 2015 by papa al

[ll2]

Don't let the engine stall!

I remember back when I took my riding school in Canada (I was already riding bikes before that just wanted to hone my skills and it was the best money spent), we were practicing the emergency breaking. What you want to do is pull the clutch (while breaking) in and kick it into the 1st gear, just in case to be ready and go to avoid anyone who might be breaking hard behind you.

If nobody is behind you, that's fine but if there is a car behind, you don't want to get rear-ended. Can't do nothing when the engine is dead.

Your argument is flawed, here is why. The moment you pull the clutch in you have lost engine breaking, this will cause your stopping distance to be increased.

When we teach 'Emergency Breaking' it is as if "someone has stepped into the road in front of you" . Either way I want the bike to stop as quickly as I can for what ever reason. Do you really think that if you had to stop in an emergency you are really going to have time to worry about what gear you are in? I can guarantee you that it will not be first. Well not unless your 'Emergency" was not so much of an emergency in the first place (Controlled stopping). Under European Driving Standards your early clutch pull during emergency stop on test would have got you a instant fail under 'Serious.'

I totally agree that once you have stopped you are in danger from behind and you should take action immediately. Look behind for starters. Most modern bikes have electric starts and once you have looked you have a variety of options.

what if you need to do the emergency breaking at 6th speed?

you pull the clutch or not, engine breaking will not help you there.

[ll2]

To add to the previous reply, engine breaking is efficient when the engine is at high RPM. Anyone who's ever been on a long steep downhill slope will know that, at low RPM there's no engine breaking. I don't see anyone riding around revving their engines through the roof, unless they're on a race track.

depends on which speed and rev you are ans what gear you are in.

downhill, if you go at 6 th gear, it will not help you. so you choose a lower gear to go down.

as they say for cars, go down the hill with the same gear you climb the hill.

[Shurup]

To add to the previous reply, engine breaking is efficient when the engine is at high RPM. Anyone who's ever been on a long steep downhill slope will know that, at low RPM there's no engine breaking. I don't see anyone riding around revving their engines through the roof, unless they're on a race track.

depends on which speed and rev you are ans what gear you are in.

downhill, if you go at 6 th gear, it will not help you. so you choose a lower gear to go down.

as they say for cars, go down the hill with the same gear you climb the hill.

Yes that was my point, when you go downhill you downshift to keep the RPM high because there's no engine breaking in higher gears @ lower RPM.

[Familyonthemove]

I think we're all confusing the OP here. The important thing is to practice coming to a quick, controlled stop which we all agree will be mostly the front brake with a bit of rear to help out. In an ideal world we'd also be using the clutch and changing down so we are always in the right gear to pull away if needed. But that's just a bonus - and it depends on how much time you had to do the emergency stop. But engine braking in an emergency stop ... that's just too much detail for a new rider and not really relevant in an 'emergency'.

[eisfeld]

Pulling the clutch as said earlier takes away the engine breaking which might make a difference of a couple meters depending on speed and gear but the important point is that it's mental load. Pulling the clutch is an action you have to do. In an emergency you want to reduce mental and physical load as much as possible and only concentrate on the thing that is important at that moment: breaking as fast as possible. Once you have perfected this and in your nerve system, you can worry about not stalling the engine by pulling the clutch right before stop.

In a real emergency you wont be able to downshift all the way to 1st.

Shurup: these problems with the Diavel sound a bit bad. I guess the bike just doesn't like low revs? How do you prevent stalling then when it happens in heat and stop-and-go traffic?

[A1Str8]

Yes u can feather it but not necessary.

If the light is not on that's a defect.

After a while you will feel and hear when it's time to shift. You can glance at the rpm though.

Does anyone know where to buy Michelin pilot Street tires for cbr in cm??

Edited February 13, 2015 by A1Str8

[Rhys]

Need time of the CBR150.. I still have mine...and love to ride it instead of the other bike.. Just listen to the bike...treat it right.. list to the engine.. shift away.. have fun.