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NEW CHARTER
Drafters told to clarify amnesty idea
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
OLAN LERTRUDTANADUMRONGKUL
THE NATION

DEMOCRAT NIPIT SAYS PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW IF PARDONS OR AMNESTY APPLIES

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party deputy leader Nipit Intrasombat yesterday voiced support for the idea of the charter drafters setting up a national reconciliation committee to pave the way for political-conflict wrongdoers receiving amnesty, but urged the drafters to explain clearly whether they would receive amnesty or a pardon.

On Saturday, Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) president Borwornsak Uwanno said a national reconciliation committee would be set up under the new charter in a bid to solve disputes.

He said the committee would be authorised to propose a pardon decree for people involved in political conflict.

In response, Nipit said: "We do not oppose the idea of promoting reconciliation to end the disputes in the country, and reconciliation would be promoted by granting amnesty to wrongdoers."

However, Nipit said after hearing the CDC president's speech he was still confused over whether people would be given amnesty or a pardon because they had different meanings.

"The CDC first must explain clearly to the public whether amnesty or a pardon will be given to protesters. If it is not understood clearly by the public it could cause more problems later," said Nipit, who is a legal expert.

Nipit pointed out that the term "pardon" stipulated in the charter made it clear that only His Majesty the King could grant a pardon, while an "amnesty" could be granted by Parliament.

He said a pardon should apply only to individuals, explaining the red shirts had tried to have fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra pardoned, and amnesty should apply to groups of people.

On Saturday, the CDC president along with other drafters, such as Thawilwadee Bureekul, Kamnoon Sidhisamarn, Supatra Nakapiew and Pracha Taerat, participated in a forum held in Udon Thani under the topic "Unite People Power for National Reform".

The forum was jointly hosted by the National Reform Council and King Prajadhipok’s Institute for the purpose of giving the public a platform to air their ideas as part of the reformation and charter drafting process.

During the forum, Borwornsak explained that the new constitution must solve the biggest issues by ending political conflict, reducing inequality, promoting justice and setting up reconciliation committee.

"This charter will set up a committee on reconciliation as a mechanism of promoting reconciliation in the country, and the committee will be the 'middle man' in resolving conflicting sides' problems," said the CDC president.

"Once every side admits to their wrongdoings, the reconciliation committee can make a request to the government for pushing a pardon," Borwornsak added.

Another CDC member, Anek Laothamatas, who is responsible for drafting the reconciliation topic in the new charter, explained that the reconciliation committee member would comprise 14 members, with nine appointed by the King and five representatives from the conflicting groups.

Anek said the committee would focus on promoting reconciliation over the long term, solving disputes through peaceful and democratic methods, although the process was still in the early stage of drafting and needed to be scrutinised and approved by the CDC.

"The reconciliation process can be successful when every side comes together. If every side is ready to move forward, it could lead to a peaceful society," Anek said.

Borwornsak warned that reconciliation would not be promoted unless every side could get over past disputes.

He added that the reconciliation committee will work for five years and play a key negotitation role in trying to resolve disputes.

Meanwhile, Borwornsak said a civilian council would be set up to scrutinise local politicians' integrity and their work.

He also suggested the public should have the authority to impeach politicians and that | the CDC was scrutinising the matter.

"We must reform with justice to strengthen civilians' power and local administrations, as well as promoting transparency for selecting representatives and senators to get Thailand out of its crises", Borwornsak said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Drafters-told-to-clarify-amnesty-idea-30254156.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-16

[chooka]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

[harada]

I don't think Moonface and Lil sis will get a mention here.

[tbthailand]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

probably not.

It seems much more like yet-another-coup-committee setup under the new constitution which will be stacked with yellow elite in order to ensure that there is Thai-style 'democracy' no matter which government the people chose.

[smedly]

completely and utterly stupid concept and has no place in a democracy where the law is one of the primary structures

That seriously needs to be removed from the table of reforms - all it would do is cause serious conflict and undermine the justice system - it is so stupid it is beyond belief it is even being discussed by these people

The law must apply equally to everyone in the country - no exceptions

[MrPerfect]

Thailand has to turn the page on the events of the last decade and a half, amnesty is the only way. A Truth and Reconciliation Council similar to post apartheid South Africa is the best way forward. Unfortunately it won't eventuate under the current regime and their outdated backers. Once the Thai people have reclaimed their democracy back from the thieves, they will enact the appropriate legislation that is fair for all sides, honours the victims and moves the country forward. If justice were to be done, with no amnesty, Thailand would end up with 80% of its Generals rotting away in prison cells for graft, treason and crimes against humanity.

[rubl]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

probably not.

It seems much more like yet-another-coup-committee setup under the new constitution which will be stacked with yellow elite in order to ensure that there is Thai-style 'democracy' no matter which government the people chose.

Try again.

It would seem that a constitution requires a description of 'amnesty' and of 'pardon' and clear conditions and limitations when one or the other could be granted. Maybe a brief description with accompanying law with the nitty-gritty details.

Some countries have 'tax evasion' amnesties before a real crackdown. The NCPO has a 'grace' period people could hand down weapons they held, before they would be searched, arrested, prosecuted.

As for pardon, I think it should be clearly described that only a convicted criminal can be pardoned and only after having served his sentence for a 'to be defined' part. A pardon should only be allowed to be asked by the person who wants the pardon. IMHO.

[rubl]

Thailand has to turn the page on the events of the last decade and a half, amnesty is the only way. A Truth and Reconciliation Council similar to post apartheid South Africa is the best way forward. Unfortunately it won't eventuate under the current regime and their outdated backers. Once the Thai people have reclaimed their democracy back from the thieves, they will enact the appropriate legislation that is fair for all sides, honours the victims and moves the country forward. If justice were to be done, with no amnesty, Thailand would end up with 80% of its Generals rotting away in prison cells for graft, treason and crimes against humanity.

'thieves'? 'current regime and outdated backers' ? 'justice with amnesty'? 'rotting away in cells'?

Are you sure you want to talk about reconciliation?

[Alwyn]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

Exactly. These bozos kicked off and caused the coup because of the amnesty bill and Thaksin trying to make the most of it. Seems to me the amnesty bill will only be for friends of whoever is running the country at any particular time. Didn't Prayuth draft something to make himself and his mates invulnerable to possible future charges? I seem to recall it but there's been so much nonsense it's hard to keep track of!

[Baerboxer]

Thailand has to turn the page on the events of the last decade and a half, amnesty is the only way. A Truth and Reconciliation Council similar to post apartheid South Africa is the best way forward. Unfortunately it won't eventuate under the current regime and their outdated backers. Once the Thai people have reclaimed their democracy back from the thieves, they will enact the appropriate legislation that is fair for all sides, honours the victims and moves the country forward. If justice were to be done, with no amnesty, Thailand would end up with 80% of its Generals rotting away in prison cells for graft, treason and crimes against humanity.

Working out well for South Africa then Just about to ban foreigners from owning land. Crack on.

if justice were done, with no amnesty, Thaksin would be extradited, serve his sentence, be punished for jumping bail and be tried in the other 15 serious cases; Red Bull boy would be extradited and face all charges, as would all those others out on bail or delay court cases due to their wealth, family, connections and fame. The Thai people have never really enjoyed democracy.

Not likely is it.

[FangFerang]

"He said ...amnesty should apply to groups of people."

I think he meant "Amnesty should only apply to our group of people (but be sure to pardon ten red shirts so we can claim it was bi-lateral, of course)."

[candide]

Time to take care of Suthep's mob....

[TheDiva]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

Exactly. These bozos kicked off and caused the coup because of the amnesty bill and Thaksin trying to make the most of it. Seems to me the amnesty bill will only be for friends of whoever is running the country at any particular time. Didn't Prayuth draft something to make himself and his mates invulnerable to possible future charges? I seem to recall it but there's been so much nonsense it's hard to keep track of!

Section 48

As regards all actions done by the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader in relation to the seizure and control of the power of public administration on 22 May 2014, as well as the actions done for the sake thereof by the persons concerned therewith, by the proxies of the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader, or by the delegatees of those proxies, whether the described actions produce constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial effect, or result in the infliction of penalties or in any other act of public administration, and whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date, the doers shall, if their actions are unlawful, be absolutely released from guilt and liabilities, whether they participate in the actions as principals, aiders, abettors or agents.

You may also note that innocent phrase just before the "absolutely released from guilt" bit, the phrase that says

"whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date"

Makes you wonder that while they were at it why they were not more poetic, maybe something along the lines of, "until the end of time".

[Alwyn]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

Exactly. These bozos kicked off and caused the coup because of the amnesty bill and Thaksin trying to make the most of it. Seems to me the amnesty bill will only be for friends of whoever is running the country at any particular time. Didn't Prayuth draft something to make himself and his mates invulnerable to possible future charges? I seem to recall it but there's been so much nonsense it's hard to keep track of!

Section 48

As regards all actions done by the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader in relation to the seizure and control of the power of public administration on 22 May 2014, as well as the actions done for the sake thereof by the persons concerned therewith, by the proxies of the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader, or by the delegatees of those proxies, whether the described actions produce constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial effect, or result in the infliction of penalties or in any other act of public administration, and whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date, the doers shall, if their actions are unlawful, be absolutely released from guilt and liabilities, whether they participate in the actions as principals, aiders, abettors or agents.

You may also note that innocent phrase just before the "absolutely released from guilt" bit, the phrase that says

"whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date"

Makes you wonder that while they were at it why they were not more poetic, maybe something along the lines of, "until the end of time".

Wow.. Thank you for taking the time to find and share that. It's even worse than I thought! I wonder how the supporters of this coup feel about this? Not too much I guess, if they were thinking people they might have objected in the first place.

[docshock13]

If they are really seeking reconciliation and they think granting pardons and providing amnesty to wrongdoers is the way to go, then why not let wrongdoers petition parliament or the palace directly with their cases. Having a partisan committee broker amnesty deals on behalf of individuals sounds scary to me. Could be a way to encourage (or trick) individuals or groups to come forward with the promise of amnesty, with those of an opposing political mindset never having their cases heard while those who are of favorable political ideology in the eyes of the committee will be ensured to have their amnesty granted. In other words, what guarantee does the charter provide that will ensure said committee will act fairly in reviewing and submitting cases to either parliament or the palace. Seems like a fairly transparent attempt to rig the game in favor of the establishment whereby their friends get off the hook and any political opponents are prosecuted. "Sorry, we reviewed your case. No amnesty for you. Go directly to jail, do not pass go" versus "In recognition of your service to the country and your patriotism, all of your friends and family in Parliament grant you amnesty. Congratulations!"

Something stinks to me.

[billd766]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

But isn't that EXACTLY what would have happened under the bill that was rammed through at 4.30 am was designed to do?

Firstly Thaksin would have been home free, whitewashed and pure.

Secondly ALL the PTP MPs would have been absolved ALL crimes for (I think) 2006 until 2013.

Thirdly some 25,xxx cases of corruption would have been abandoned and the costs paid for by the taxpayers.

Fourthly a sop was offered to Abhisit and Suthep so that they would get a pardon too.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

completely and utterly stupid concept and has no place in a democracy where the law is one of the primary structures

That seriously needs to be removed from the table of reforms - all it would do is cause serious conflict and undermine the justice system - it is so stupid it is beyond belief it is even being discussed by these people

The law must apply equally to everyone in the country - no exceptions

Whose law?

The law derived from the Thai Peoples or the law dictated by the Junta? The Junta doesn't even apply its own "law" as prescribed by its Interim Charter equally to all Thais and repeatedly violates their rights and liberties under the "law." The Junta gave itself both legislative and judicial authority; hardly a representative of the Thai Peoples.

If the rule of law must be followed without exception, there must be no conflicts of interests and recognition that sovereignty lies with Thai Peoples

[billd766]

If they are really seeking reconciliation and they think granting pardons and providing amnesty to wrongdoers is the way to go, then why not let wrongdoers petition parliament or the palace directly with their cases. Having a partisan committee broker amnesty deals on behalf of individuals sounds scary to me. Could be a way to encourage (or trick) individuals or groups to come forward with the promise of amnesty, with those of an opposing political mindset never having their cases heard while those who are of favorable political ideology in the eyes of the committee will be ensured to have their amnesty granted. In other words, what guarantee does the charter provide that will ensure said committee will act fairly in reviewing and submitting cases to either parliament or the palace. Seems like a fairly transparent attempt to rig the game in favor of the establishment whereby their friends get off the hook and any political opponents are prosecuted. "Sorry, we reviewed your case. No amnesty for you. Go directly to jail, do not pass go" versus "In recognition of your service to the country and your patriotism, all of your friends and family in Parliament grant you amnesty. Congratulations!"

Something stinks to me.

Whilst they are it why not put in a clause that clearly states two things.

1 Only the person desiring a pardon can apply and nobody else on their behalf.

2 The person desiring the pardon must physically apply in person and it can ONLY be done in Thailand.

[seajae]

should be no amnesties at all or pardons for either side, everytime someone does something here they get off, if they say they did it they then get bugger all jail time for being honest as well. If they do the crime they do the time, end of argument. Its way past time thai courts started to dish out realistic sentences and fines not the slap on the wrists they get now. If people act like terrorists to get the results they want they should be charged end of story, doesnt matter if it was political, its illegal and there should be no easy way out for either side. Saying amnesty is the only way to keep the peace is crap, if these idiots think they can kill, destroy and burn down buildings then be given a get out of jail free card they need to be sorted out, its time to pay the piper for all these so called political criminals/terrorsts, time for forgiveness is long gone.

[tbthailand]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

probably not.

It seems much more like yet-another-coup-committee setup under the new constitution which will be stacked with yellow elite in order to ensure that there is Thai-style 'democracy' no matter which government the people chose.

Try again.

It would seem that a constitution requires a description of 'amnesty' and of 'pardon' and clear conditions and limitations when one or the other could be granted. Maybe a brief description with accompanying law with the nitty-gritty details.

Some countries have 'tax evasion' amnesties before a real crackdown. The NCPO has a 'grace' period people could hand down weapons they held, before they would be searched, arrested, prosecuted.

As for pardon, I think it should be clearly described that only a convicted criminal can be pardoned and only after having served his sentence for a 'to be defined' part. A pardon should only be allowed to be asked by the person who wants the pardon. IMHO.

your reply really has nothing to do with chooka's original post, nor my reply post.

That would, perhaps, qualify it as "trolling". I have suspected you of that rather often, before.

so as long as we're not discussing what the other posted...

you are very polite and soft spoken, but I now know that you feel it is OK for the Army to mow down it's own people. For that reason, trolling or not trolling, I don't really care what you think.

[rubl]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

probably not.

It seems much more like yet-another-coup-committee setup under the new constitution which will be stacked with yellow elite in order to ensure that there is Thai-style 'democracy' no matter which government the people chose.

Try again.

It would seem that a constitution requires a description of 'amnesty' and of 'pardon' and clear conditions and limitations when one or the other could be granted. Maybe a brief description with accompanying law with the nitty-gritty details.

Some countries have 'tax evasion' amnesties before a real crackdown. The NCPO has a 'grace' period people could hand down weapons they held, before they would be searched, arrested, prosecuted.

As for pardon, I think it should be clearly described that only a convicted criminal can be pardoned and only after having served his sentence for a 'to be defined' part. A pardon should only be allowed to be asked by the person who wants the pardon. IMHO.

your reply really has nothing to do with chooka's original post, nor my reply post.

That would, perhaps, qualify it as "trolling". I have suspected you of that rather often, before.

so as long as we're not discussing what the other posted...

you are very polite and soft spoken, but I now know that you feel it is OK for the Army to mow down it's own people. For that reason, trolling or not trolling, I don't really care what you think.

Terribly sorry, I thought you guys were seriously trying to provide a positive input in understanding the topic and issues. Tjeez, don't tell me now you guys were just trolling along. You disappoint this old Dutch uncle.

BTW the army moving down people? I must have missed that. I thought they only kept the valentine protesters for the night and released them already?

[rubl]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

Exactly. These bozos kicked off and caused the coup because of the amnesty bill and Thaksin trying to make the most of it. Seems to me the amnesty bill will only be for friends of whoever is running the country at any particular time. Didn't Prayuth draft something to make himself and his mates invulnerable to possible future charges? I seem to recall it but there's been so much nonsense it's hard to keep track of!

Section 48

As regards all actions done by the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader in relation to the seizure and control of the power of public administration on 22 May 2014, as well as the actions done for the sake thereof by the persons concerned therewith, by the proxies of the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader, or by the delegatees of those proxies, whether the described actions produce constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial effect, or result in the infliction of penalties or in any other act of public administration, and whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date, the doers shall, if their actions are unlawful, be absolutely released from guilt and liabilities, whether they participate in the actions as principals, aiders, abettors or agents.

You may also note that innocent phrase just before the "absolutely released from guilt" bit, the phrase that says

"whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date"

Makes you wonder that while they were at it why they were not more poetic, maybe something along the lines of, "until the end of time".

My dear, nice you still had the link for the English version of the Interim Charter, but here we are into the new, being written as you watch charter.

[rubl]

So Suthep and the Mad Monk will not be prosecuted and all charges against reds involved in the government's and demonstrating against governments will be dropped also? Just like all these coups will be wiped from history.

Exactly. These bozos kicked off and caused the coup because of the amnesty bill and Thaksin trying to make the most of it. Seems to me the amnesty bill will only be for friends of whoever is running the country at any particular time. Didn't Prayuth draft something to make himself and his mates invulnerable to possible future charges? I seem to recall it but there's been so much nonsense it's hard to keep track of!

Section 48

As regards all actions done by the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader in relation to the seizure and control of the power of public administration on 22 May 2014, as well as the actions done for the sake thereof by the persons concerned therewith, by the proxies of the National Council for Peace and Order or its Leader, or by the delegatees of those proxies, whether the described actions produce constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial effect, or result in the infliction of penalties or in any other act of public administration, and whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date, the doers shall, if their actions are unlawful, be absolutely released from guilt and liabilities, whether they participate in the actions as principals, aiders, abettors or agents.

You may also note that innocent phrase just before the "absolutely released from guilt" bit, the phrase that says

"whether those actions are done on the mentioned date or prior to or after such date"

Makes you wonder that while they were at it why they were not more poetic, maybe something along the lines of, "until the end of time".

Wow.. Thank you for taking the time to find and share that. It's even worse than I thought! I wonder how the supporters of this coup feel about this? Not too much I guess, if they were thinking people they might have objected in the first place.

Not sure it is within forum rules to compare this threesome with circle jerk, but that's the idea I get.

As I just mentioned in another reply, the section 48 quoted by our dear diva (thanks for that love) is part of the English translation of the Interim Constitution. The topic here is about a new, written as you watch constitution.

So, any conclusions based on wishful thinking and the wrong constitution seem a wee bit silly.

PS I still remember discussing the Interim Constitution with our dear, too early departed friend fabbie. He came with this link

https://thaicoup2014.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/translation-of-the-constitution-of-the-kingdom-of-thailand-interim/