Social Fund Office Refusing to Register Employees For New Company

[maisodni]

New company - need four Thai employees to support application for WP.3 form. Come up with four Thais, gather ID and hospital info, give 4 x 900 baht to service provider to pay first month SF tax at time of SF registration for company, and for its first four Thai employees.

SF office says "no deal" - we are referring this case to our legal department (?), who will inspect the company office address first. Since when does this happen?

Without work permit, no bank account; without bank account; no lease deposit for real office; with no real office, no place to put real employees. So - right now, just serviced office virtual address, and "outdoor" employees (moto taxi drivers).

I am not looking for speculative answers. I am intersdted only in success stories from people who have "found the pattern and the solution" - in 2015.

As far as I know, this new "problem scenario" has just erupted starting this week.

Thanks,

MS

[ubonjoe]

Move to the business forum for the best answers.

[digitalchromakey]

Just typed a several paragraph reply in the Visa/WP forum only to find that your post had been moved to another sub forum!

Problem understood:

To register employees for social insurance, you will first need to have a correctly constituted company registered at the Department of Commence, to do this you need a real office/address, but don't yet need the employees/WP, as you can use an accountancy company, or get a Thai 'secretary' to file all the papers up to WP/Social.

Don't think for one minute that a Thai Bank will ever lend money to a new foreign owned/controlled company as deposit on a lease, for this you will have to dig into your own pocket.

In fact don't expect to ever get any overdraft facilities/loans other than maybe a mortgage on a shop house as business premises, even when you have several years worth of audited/filed accounts showing profits, unless you have substantial bank deposits already in your company's name (and if this is the case then why would you then want to borrow cash anyway?).

[maisodni]

No - my comment about banking was in relation to needing company account to deposit share capital funds into, such that lease deposit, recruiting fees, furniture purchase, etc can be accomplished in a way that expense can be paid by check (or local bank transfer), the flow of funds can be reviewed by an end-of-year auditor, and there is no need to carry around large amounts of cash.

Based on some more investigation, it appears that Social Fund department has decided to go on a rampage - and has already refused to accept registration of employees for social fund for some 40 recently incorporated companies - saying that they were suspicious about the validity of the employment of these individuals.

If true, and continuing, this will effectively mean no more work permits for newly started companies, until they have four Thai employees actively working at the registered office address, and pass Social Fund inspection.

If this is true, I'm sure there will be more dicsussion developing aout this issue.

MS

Edited February 19, 2015 by maisodni

[NoBrainer]

To register your employees on Social Security, Social Security office will visit un-anounced to verify that your 4 employees are actually working there full time.

For Work Permit application, Labour department may visit, or ask you to bring your 4 employees to their office so that they can interview them.

For Visa Extension, Immigration will visit your office and expect to see your employees working there. This is also un-anounced.

You first problem is no physical office.

This has been going on for at least 3 years, that I know of.

[Mudcrab]

No - my comment about banking was in relation to needing company account to deposit share capital funds into, such that lease deposit, recruiting fees, furniture purchase, etc can be accomplished in a way that expense can be paid by check (or local bank transfer), the flow of funds can be reviewed by an end-of-year auditor, and there is no need to carry around large amounts of cash.

Based on some more investigation, it appears that Social Fund department has decided to go on a rampage - and has already refused to accept registration of employees for social fund for some 40 recently incorporated companies - saying that they were suspicious about the validity of the employment of these individuals.

If true, and continuing, this will effectively mean no more work permits for newly started companies, until they have four Thai employees actively working at the registered office address, and pass Social Fund inspection.

If this is true, I'm sure there will be more dicsussion developing aout this issue.

MS

"If true, and continuing, this will effectively mean no more work permits for newly started companies, until they have four Thai employees actively working at the registered office address, and pass Social Fund inspection"

Sounds like they want to keep the scam artists honest and obeying the law.

Not a bad thing really.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

I think you are confused. The company if its legally formed and have all the documents needed can open a bank account. From the bank account (with money in) you can rent an office. After that you get the SS registration done for the 4 employees(after they inspect the office which is standard). Then you apply for your work permit, when you get your wp you apply for SS and your 1 year visa . If the formation of the company and your wp is close to each other your wp application will attract extra attention.

[yankee99]

I think you are confused. The company if its legally formed and have all the documents needed can open a bank account. From the bank account (with money in) you can rent an office. After that you get the SS registration done for the 4 employees(after they inspect the office which is standard). Then you apply for your work permit, when you get your wp you apply for SS and your 1 year visa . If the formation of the company and your wp is close to each other your wp application will attract extra attention.

This is correct in Banglamung they SS came and asked what the staff did and their ids.

No SS if the op is the company director.

[joshuatdixon]

They have reversed the process. I ran into the exact same thing a week ago. Now you get your work permit first, then your work visa, then register your employees. I did this and now have both my work permit and non b visa from Penang as of yesterday afternoon. Now I have a years time to register 4 Thai employees before my work permit needs to be renewed.

[joshuatdixon]

I should have mentioned I use Interactive firm to assist me, and I was the first person to have to do this with them.

[ggt]

You really do qualify for the "glutton for punishment" category of farang...the potential problems and angst in doing business in Thailand is legendary...

[bahlaht]

Ring Sunbelt asia legal firm ask for t-rat youll get the down to earth truth with these people

Yes you need 200,000 thai baht in bank

You need to be leasing a shop with papers from land lord

You need 4 thai employees

Money to show you can pay employees per month and their social security

Yes you will get a first visit from department of labour it has been mandatory since i know october 2014

[Sydebolle]

Had the same problem. Walked into the Social Security Office (SSO) in Laem Chabang and started taking pictures showing me on them. Questioned on what I am doing I told the office manager/supervisor (in English) that the SSO refused my application.
So, with taking pictures and holding up completed forms visible on the picture I could prove my point and if inspected could not be fined as the bucket stopped with them.
They came around same afternoon, asked the staff if they would really being working there as well as about their salaries. We use fingerprint readers which they wanted to reject and referred to a manual book or punch cards. Only upon mentioning that the revenue department on South Pattaya Road also uses fingerprint readers the matter was done and sealed. Never ever had anything to do with them; contributions are paid through Krung Thai bank and registration of new/delisting of staff left happens by EMS.

[maisodni]

They have reversed the process. I ran into the exact same thing a week ago. Now you get your work permit first, then your work visa, then register your employees. I did this and now have both my work permit and non b visa from Penang as of yesterday afternoon. Now I have a years time to register 4 Thai employees before my work permit needs to be renewed.

Thanks - your response was the only one that directly addressed the situation, and told me something useful and relevant to a CHANGE that has evidently occurred in February 2015. Everyone else's answers were based on old practice.

Cheers!

MS

Edited February 20, 2015 by maisodni