Israeli Ambassador discusses military cooperation with Thai Defense Minister

[Plowman]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Electronic Intifada!

a719a0958123997c63d4794ca2189454.jpg

Look dudes, apartheid South Africa was apartheid South Africa.

Modern Israel is modern Israel.

Different histories.

Different present times.

Different futures.

It doesn't matter if it's a black cat or a white cat as long as it catches mice - Deng Xiaoping.

South Africa and Israel = different systems, same result.

[JingerBen]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

There really is plenty to legitimately criticize about the government policies of Israel (as well as the policies and actions of the Palestinian leadership) without resorting to demonizing labeling tricks ... calling Israel an apartheid state, calling Israelis all racist, calling Israel the same as Nazi Germany.

Oh so its lies and demonizing labeling tricks?...tut tut JT

there are direct parallels between what National party got up into in SA during apartheid and what Israel has go up to just one example for instance the planned forced removals of Bedouin from their ancestral lands in 2010 - Echo's of district 6 removals in South Africa

One could also suggest Gaza echos of the homelands created in SA during Apartheid and for your further reading pleasure an article concluding the same thing...

http://electronicintifada.net/content/south-african-study-israel-practicing-apartheid-and-colonialism/3432

http://electronicintifada.net/content/south-african-speaker-says-israel-apartheid-state/1142

So far nobody on this forum has made such a convincing case for the similarities between Apartheid South Africa and contemporary Israel as well as you have.

[Jingthing]

So is Abbas the Arab Mandella? Somehow I ain't feeling it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JingerBen]

So is Abbas the Arab Mandella? Somehow I ain't feeling it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If there are any more Gaza Massacres, you may start feeling it.

[siampolee]

Criticise Soutpeel's comments all you like.

Remember however or if you don't know he is a South Africa therefore he has first hand experience of apartheid and no doubt he was and is still well aware of the Israeli,support for an evil regime that was heavily influenced by those of a similar political belief as a character from the last century who to the Israeli's was and is the devil incarnate.

Strange value and flexible principles some folks nations have when the supply of armaments and policing equipment, training etc was a money earner..

Edited February 21, 2015 by siampolee

[Soutpeel]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Electronic Intifada!

a719a0958123997c63d4794ca2189454.jpg

Look dudes, apartheid South Africa was apartheid South Africa.

Modern Israel is modern Israel.

Different histories.

Different present times.

Different futures.

oh dear JT, it would seem that Denis Goldberg disagrees and he happens to Jewish, it is very obvious you are unable to debate this point so have been reduced to rather juvenile remarks and comparisons, extract below from an article and link below which makes interesting reading....

"In March 1985, Denis Goldberg, a Jewish South African and member of the African National Congress and sentenced in 1964 to life imprisonment for “conspiring to overthrow the apartheid regime,” was released through the intercession of his daughter, an Israeli, and top Israeli officials, including the president of Israel and allowed to go into exile to Israel.

Goldberg said after arriving in Israel that he saw “many similarities in the oppression of blacks in South Africa and of Palestinians.” He called for a total economic boycott of South Africa, singling out Israel as a major ally of the apartheid regime. Refusing to live in a country that supported Apartheid South Africa Goldberg quickly left Israel and moved to London, England."

further,

“I’ve been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.”

— Archbishop Desmond Tutu

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/03/israel-and-apartheid-is-it-a-fair-comparison/

[hadromi]

This appears to be slightly discriminatory.

I would consider the strangely complicated marriage laws in Israel to be an internal issue and no business of Thailand just as Thailand's marriage laws are no business of Israel. That said, they are a mess but to present them as being specifically discriminatory towards non-Jews is a total crock ... the majority of people negatively impacted by such laws are actually Jewish people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel

There is a movement in Israel to reform these laws but as in social change in any democracy, change is often way too slow.

To add, Israel does recognize gay marriages done outside of Israel.

Can you name one Islamic state or Muslim dominated country that even goes that far?

There is a legal solution for this

[Jingthing]

So is Abbas the Arab Mandella? Somehow I ain't feeling it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If there are any more Gaza Massacres, you may start feeling it.

What is that supposed to mean?

Folks, get real.

A decent peaceful resolution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not going to look anything like what happened in South Africa.

The charge that Israel is an apartheid state is a false and malicious one that precludes, rather than promotes, peace and harmony.

Judge Richard J. Goldstone

(former Justice of the South African Constitutional Court, who led the United Nations 2008-9 fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209009727/The-Apartheid-Smear

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Lissos]

Thailand should have nothing to do with the murderous Israeli state.

Their treatment of Palestinians is disgusting and morally repugnant. Thailand should boycott all things Israeli.

Maybe Thailand should provide a courtesy nubile young BG at the airport, for every single foreign male arriving in Thailand?

One thing I do know is that Thailand doesn't browse web forums looking for suggestions on policy, from random foreigners.

[Robby nz]

So now we have China, Russia, France, Japan and Israel as well as the ASEAN group all wanting to do business with Thailand and cooperate in military matters.

Perhaps someone else will soon be rethinking their position and their hasty decisions.

[trogers]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

A more appropriate name is 'Bulldozeman'. Ram the accelerator before engaging brain.

[trogers]

So now we have China, Russia, France, Japan and Israel as well as the ASEAN group all wanting to do business with Thailand and cooperate in military matters.

Perhaps someone else will soon be rethinking their position and their hasty decisions.

Nahhhh...the US do not need trade. They have their QEs for economic growth.

[Soutpeel]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

A more appropriate name is 'Bulldozeman'. Ram the accelerator before engaging brain.

Bulldozy was banned I believe...

[trogers]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

Israels actions demonise (and condemn) Israel! Disgraceful nation who's existence should be rightfully questioned.

Yes it well understood that many of the "critics" of Israel are really about actively supporting the end of Israel. Some are open about it and some try to hide the true intentions.

How dare those Jews have the chutzpah to finally assert their political self determination in a nation state? We certainly can never accept that ...

No problem with scads of Islamic dominated states ... after all they are so well behaved ... but the Jews, one tiny state ... can't allow that!

One thing history has shown - Siblings make a more furious enemy than strangers.

And to think they all are children of Abraham.

[Plowman]

So is Abbas the Arab Mandella? Somehow I ain't feeling it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If there are any more Gaza Massacres, you may start feeling it.

What is that supposed to mean?

Folks, get real.

A decent peaceful resolution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not going to look anything like what happened in South Africa.

The charge that Israel is an apartheid state is a false and malicious one that precludes, rather than promotes, peace and harmony.

Judge Richard J. Goldstone

(former Justice of the South African Constitutional Court, who led the United Nations 2008-9 fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209009727/The-Apartheid-Smear

Why the need to produce this piece of propaganda? Where there is smoke, there is fire!

[Jingthing]

I don't know. Let me check. Perhaps to counter the anti-Israel propaganda here. Could be.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Beetlejuice]

Coincidence? Be careful Thailand. Very fishy connection here.

After the big brother loosing control, the youngest wants to get into the scene.

When China and the US are courting Burma....and Muslims have a big eye in South Thailand.

Muslim are creating big social problems in Europe, also in Italy. Thailand do not need to be in that mess....but..may be..with the wrong "help".

Thailand is already in that mess.

Firstly the deep south is practically a war zone with radical terrorist Muslins trying to take over the territory that is probably backed by Malaysia a country that is rumoured to be rapidly heading towards fanatical sharia law.

Thailand is afraid to go into the deep south with all guns blazing due to concerns that this would stir up hostilities with Malaysia. Considering the situation I think Thailand is well advised to consider having military cooperation with Israel.

[Morch]

Do home countries of all posters advocating Thailand cut relations with Israel follow the same notion?

[Jingthing]

Wait.

There's more!

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/pro-palestinian-ads-misrepresent-apartheid/Content?oid=2339168

Pro-Palestinian ads misrepresent apartheid

On my recent trip to San Francisco, I was deeply disturbed to learn about the posters in The City accusing Israel of apartheid. As a black South African who lived under apartheid, this system was implemented in South Africa to subjugate people of color and deny them a variety of their rights. In my view, Israel cannot be compared to apartheid in South Africa. Those who make the accusation expose their ignorance of what apartheid really is.

[Beetlejuice]

Wait.

There's more!

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/pro-palestinian-ads-misrepresent-apartheid/Content?oid=2339168

Pro-Palestinian ads misrepresent apartheid

On my recent trip to San Francisco, I was deeply disturbed to learn about the posters in The City accusing Israel of apartheid. As a black South African who lived under apartheid, this system was implemented in South Africa to subjugate people of color and deny them a variety of their rights. In my view, Israel cannot be compared to apartheid in South Africa. Those who make the accusation expose their ignorance of what apartheid really is.

So what does this have to do with the theme of this thread?

This is about relations between Thailand and Israel and has nothing to do with South African apartheid and events that are happening in the middle east.

Why do you always bring race and politics into these issues, especially those that are totally irrelevant to events that are happening in present day Thailand?

[Jingthing]

The accusation that Israel is an "apartheid state" was brought up on Post 2 of this thread. I did not introduce it. I agree it is off topic but any topic about Israel always attracts Israel demonization arguments, regardless of how off topic they might be. If they are done, why shouldn't they be met with responses?

[rametindallas]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Gaza has a large border with Muslim Egypt. Egypt blocks that border without being urged by Israel. Israel lets all food and aid shipments through. They just like to check the shipments for weapons first. Why do the wealthy Muslim states keep the Palestinian Territories so poor? Why don't the help develop the economy of the Palestinian Territories? They could easily turn the Territories into a show place but they won't because they want the 'wound' of the Palestinian Territories to fester so they can point the finger at Israel as though Israel is holding them back. Then weak-minded anti-Semites, such as yourself, can write their propaganda. There is nothing the Israelis are doing that would stop Arab investment in the Palestinian Territories. Egypt doesn't want to open their border with Gaza because they don't want Hamas to stir up insurrection in Egypt. Hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization and they control Gaza. They remind me of American Negroes; they are a permanent 'victim' class. Israel has never started any wars with the Arabs. Maybe you could post a link where they did. I have no special love for Israel but I am offended by anti-Semitic lies and propaganda. Truth is truth and your hate doesn't change it.

[rametindallas]

I wonder where the new palestine will be.

The Kingdom of Jordan is 90% Palestinian ruled by the 10% Hashemites. Jordan is the true Palestinian Homeland.

[Beetlejuice]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Gaza has a large border with Muslim Egypt. Egypt blocks that border without being urged by Israel. Israel lets all food and aid shipments through. They just like to check the shipments for weapons first. Why do the wealthy Muslim states keep the Palestinian Territories so poor? Why don't the help develop the economy of the Palestinian Territories? They could easily turn the Territories into a show place but they won't because they want the 'wound' of the Palestinian Territories to fester so they can point the finger at Israel as though Israel is holding them back. Then weak-minded anti-Semites, such as yourself, can write their propaganda. There is nothing the Israelis are doing that would stop Arab investment in the Palestinian Territories. Egypt doesn't want to open their border with Gaza because they don't want Hamas to stir up insurrection in Egypt. Hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization and they control Gaza. They remind me of American Negroes; they are a permanent 'victim' class. Israel has never started any wars with the Arabs. Maybe you could post a link where they did. I have no special love for Israel but I am offended by anti-Semitic lies and propaganda. Truth is truth and your hate doesn't change it.

Who cares? If you`re so concerned about the middle east, than why not write a book about the subject or start a revolution?

I am only interested in this topic at hand and Thailand`s problems with the Muslims in the deep south, which is why I believe a military cooperation with Israel is beneficial for Thailand, which is the issue here, but it seems that no matter how hard some posters try, they find it impossible to stay on track with the theme of this thread..

[Ricardo]

Fantastic, the Israelis can teach the Junta how to set up an apartheid state.

While I would have to admit, that many Thais (like many Africans) seem obsessed with having whiter skin, I believe that this applies equally on both sides of the political-divide, and not just to the junta as you appear to believe ?

They're all wrong anyway ... skin-colour isn't genetically-linked to wealth or intelligence or goodness.

[Loptr]

And just what military interests does Thailand share with Israel? None IMHO, so why the rhetoric?

[JingerBen]

Coincidence? Be careful Thailand. Very fishy connection here.

After the big brother loosing control, the youngest wants to get into the scene.

When China and the US are courting Burma....and Muslims have a big eye in South Thailand.

Muslim are creating big social problems in Europe, also in Italy. Thailand do not need to be in that mess....but..may be..with the wrong "help".

Thailand is already in that mess.

Firstly the deep south is practically a war zone with radical terrorist Muslins trying to take over the territory that is probably backed by Malaysia a country that is rumoured to be rapidly heading towards fanatical sharia law.

Thailand is afraid to go into the deep south with all guns blazing due to concerns that this would stir up hostilities with Malaysia. Considering the situation I think Thailand is well advised to consider having military cooperation with Israel.

It is absolute idiocy to think that the insurgency in Southern Thailand could be defeated if the Thai Army went in "...with all guns blazing..." You've seen too many action movies. The insurgents would disappear into the mountains and across the border into Malaysia, and come back to fight again even stronger.

The only hope for resolving this conflict peacefully lies in giving the local people some degree of autonomy and self-government as an alternative to armed resistance.

If Israel becomes involved in any way it will be like throwing petrol on the flames.

The Israeli brand is radioactive in Malaysia - and it is Malaysian co-operation that is essential in solving the social, religious, and economic problems that beset the south.

If some progress can be made in those areas, the radicals will lose support.

[Ricardo]

And just what military interests does Thailand share with Israel? None IMHO, so why the rhetoric?

One is a world-leader in the manufacture & use of drones, for surveillance of rebellious areas & people, the other has an internal terrorist-insurgency underway and borders across which drugs flow, I'd have thought there was a fairly obvious common military-interest ?

[claffey]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Arabs living in Israel have greater human rights than in any Arab country. They vote, there are Arabs in the Knesset, Arab women in Israel have the rights of women in normal countries, they're allowed to vote, drive a car and voice an opinion. There are Arabs in the Israeli military... More plaestinian kids get treated in Israeli hospitals than in Palestinian (or Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian) hospitals. Israel has been treating wounded/injured displaced Syrians in their military and civilian hospitals in Gaza. Israel pays millions of dollars into Palestine for infrastructure, most of which gets taken by Hamas to build concrete tunnels etc. Equal opportunities in Israel are just that, equal. An Israeli Arab can marry an Israeli Jew, tell me how many Arab countries allow marriage to a Jews? The "illegal" war against "Palestine" - a country which does not exist by the way, I think you meant Gaza but who knows.. please tell me who started it? Who fired the first barrage of rockets? A couple of weeks ago a Hamas terrorist murdered 4 Jews praying in a Synagogue, 3 of these guys were Rabbis. Two of these guys were American. A month or so ago terrorists stopped a car with an Israeli guy taking his yourn daughter home. They torched the car and the young girl had 80% burns.. How often do you hear about Jews or Israelis doing stuff like this? Once in a few years maybe at most. Have you even been to the area? Have you been to Israel? Have you been to Gaza? All you know is nonsense you read from anti-Israel media. Do you know ANYTHING about the area? Do you know anything about the history of the area? Educate yourself properly before making these ridiculous statements and then you won't apprear to be such a helmet.

History!!??? Israel as a country didn't exist until 1948!! The Palestinian people had been there for centuries. The British held a 'mandate' so a large part of the fault also lies with them and the victorious allies after WW2..

I'd like to ask you a question? Why are you so angry? You've made yourself come across as an agressive individual. I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are. However, there's no need for aggression and rudeness!!

I have another question! The many numerous Israelis that I have seen or spoken to, in Thailand, have been rude, obnoxious and arrogant. There were one or two exceptions to this. The aggressive nature of your post suggests that you are like minded. Maybe its time for you and your brothers in arms to take a look at yourselfs and think about why so many people are against you????

By the way, your portrayal of violence and attempts at playing the victim in this tragedy don't shock me. I grew up in a country that was also full of sectarian strife and violence. However, we have decided to fix our problems and move on, as two seperate but at the same time intrinsically linked countries.

The conflict in your so called country will never be solved until both sides recognise each other's sovereign rights to govern. Then they can move forward with attempts at a settlement.( And by settlement I don't mean bulldozing houses!)))

[claffey]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

Israels actions demonise (and condemn) Israel! Disgraceful nation who's existence should be rightfully questioned.

Yes it well understood that many of the "critics" of Israel are really about actively supporting the end of Israel. Some are open about it and some try to hide the true intentions.

How dare those Jews have the chutzpah to finally assert their political self determination in a nation state? We certainly can never accept that ...

No problem with scads of Islamic dominated states ... after all they are so well behaved ... but the Jews, one tiny state ... can't allow that!

Playing the victim as usual...Hypocritical too! 'Why don't you change 'Jews' to 'Palestinian Arabs' in the above sentence by yourself!!...'How dare those Palestinian Arabs have the chutzpah to finally assert their political determination in a nation state'...This highlights your own nations hypocrisy and arrogance...