Thai officials ousted for fraud over govt rice deals

[Manbing]

I am surprised we have not yet heard from the YS support club, claiming the whole thing is a political stunt cooked up by the junta to remove the popular Shins family from politics.

maybe because the ploy is so obvious that it doesn't need to be pointed out?

I recall the junta counting all the rice last summer and concluding that 0.08% was missing. Now, 9 months later, there is a large amount missing and a committee is going to be set up to investigate?

This junta can find its tank with both hands.

.8% and 600 billion baht then.

[Keesters]

Was talking with a Thai guy on Saturday. He reckons that no rice was stolen. When it was delivered to the silos the figures were highly inflated to show more than was actually recieved. Fiddling the books does seem a lot easier than physically stealing the stuff.

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Because the result of fiddeling the books is that the rice is physically missing.

Suppose you the bill says you delivered 3000 kg but in reality you delivered 1500kg (example). It then looks as if 1500 kg was stolen. It was stolen (paid for 3000 given 1500) only not in the conventional way you are thinking about.

There is a difference between the "paper" stock and the physical stock. So it really does not matter how it was stolen because its theft all the same.

This is standard accounting .. nothing specific to the junta.

To the Thai guy I was chatting with there is a lot of difference. Physically stolen=theft. Fiddle paperwork=corruption. Both wrong in his eyes but definitely seen as being different. He didn't say but I got the feeling that theft was more wrong.

[Keesters]

I am surprised we have not yet heard from the YS support club, claiming the whole thing is a political stunt cooked up by the junta to remove the popular Shins family from politics.

maybe because the ploy is so obvious that it doesn't need to be pointed out?

I recall the junta counting all the rice last summer and concluding that 0.08% was missing. Now, 9 months later, there is a large amount missing and a committee is going to be set up to investigate?

This junta can find its tank with both hands.

where did you get the 0.08% missing? from the very beginning it has always been a lot missing.

Was talking with a Thai guy on Saturday. He reckons that no rice was stolen. When it was delivered to the silos the figures were highly inflated to show more than was actually recieved. Fiddling the books does seem a lot easier than physically stealing the stuff.

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Physically little rice missing? I think you will find they say a lot.

eg 24 July 2014 Phoenix Agritech, Pathum Thani
" In the book, they declared 147,389 sacks of rice were kept in the warehouses of the company.
But renewed checking found 98,435 sacks were missing.
The Marketing Organisation for Farmers has earlier filed complaint with the police and has charged warehouse operator and contractor of theft.
Earlier Wednesday the permanent secretary of PM’s Office ML Panadda Dissakul has said rice checking at all provinces so far showed more than 5% of rice went missing from warehouses."
If each sack is 50kg that's 4,922 tonnes missing from just one company in one provence. If one truck hauls away 20 tonnes that is 250 truck loads, which need to be stored elsewhere, or on sold to another warehouse as new rice thus receiving about 70M bt.
Better still never actually receive the 98,435 sacks, but do the paperwork and receive 70M bt from the Rice Scam and then charge storage and fumigation fees on the rice that never existed.

That is a lot of rice. Edited February 23, 2015 by draftvader
Cleaning up quotes

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am surprised we have not yet heard from the YS support club, claiming the whole thing is a political stunt cooked up by the junta to remove the popular Shins family from politics.

alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> alt=clap2.gif> alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

maybe because the ploy is so obvious that it doesn't need to be pointed out?

I recall the junta counting all the rice last summer and concluding that 0.08% was missing. Now, 9 months later, there is a large amount missing and a committee is going to be set up to investigate?

This junta can find its tank with both hands.

0.08%, suggest you get some facts correct, or just deliberate lies.

[robblok]

Was talking with a Thai guy on Saturday. He reckons that no rice was stolen. When it was delivered to the silos the figures were highly inflated to show more than was actually recieved. Fiddling the books does seem a lot easier than physically stealing the stuff.

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Because the result of fiddeling the books is that the rice is physically missing.

Suppose you the bill says you delivered 3000 kg but in reality you delivered 1500kg (example). It then looks as if 1500 kg was stolen. It was stolen (paid for 3000 given 1500) only not in the conventional way you are thinking about.

There is a difference between the "paper" stock and the physical stock. So it really does not matter how it was stolen because its theft all the same.

This is standard accounting .. nothing specific to the junta.

To the Thai guy I was chatting with there is a lot of difference. Physically stolen=theft. Fiddle paperwork=corruption. Both wrong in his eyes but definitely seen as being different. He didn't say but I got the feeling that theft was more wrong.

Maybe because theft would also mean breaking and entering ? I honestly don't see the difference (im an accountant) Both result in the same loss to the program.

[tbthailand]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am surprised we have not yet heard from the YS support club, claiming the whole thing is a political stunt cooked up by the junta to remove the popular Shins family from politics.

alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> alt=clap2.gif> alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

maybe because the ploy is so obvious that it doesn't need to be pointed out?

I recall the junta counting all the rice last summer and concluding that 0.08% was missing. Now, 9 months later, there is a large amount missing and a committee is going to be set up to investigate?

This junta can find its tank with both hands.

0.08%, suggest you get some facts correct, or just deliberate lies.

That was posted already, I did get the number wrong. It was 0.018% - my number was too high.

Look, this is Thailand. I think that finding someone who cheated on the rice program should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Thai at Heart]

Was talking with a Thai guy on Saturday. He reckons that no rice was stolen. When it was delivered to the silos the figures were highly inflated to show more than was actually recieved. Fiddling the books does seem a lot easier than physically stealing the stuff.

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Because the result of fiddeling the books is that the rice is physically missing.

Suppose you the bill says you delivered 3000 kg but in reality you delivered 1500kg (example). It then looks as if 1500 kg was stolen. It was stolen (paid for 3000 given 1500) only not in the conventional way you are thinking about.

There is a difference between the "paper" stock and the physical stock. So it really does not matter how it was stolen because its theft all the same.

This is standard accounting .. nothing specific to the junta.

Well then the fraud is in the milling which if it equates to 600bn worth would mean that the milling yields were the worst ever.

1kg in has a standarr yield of rice out give or take afew percent. U can't just lose 30% more in the milling. Anyone with a half a brain could find that issue in half a day.

So, try again.....

[robblok]

Was talking with a Thai guy on Saturday. He reckons that no rice was stolen. When it was delivered to the silos the figures were highly inflated to show more than was actually recieved. Fiddling the books does seem a lot easier than physically stealing the stuff.

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Because the result of fiddeling the books is that the rice is physically missing.

Suppose you the bill says you delivered 3000 kg but in reality you delivered 1500kg (example). It then looks as if 1500 kg was stolen. It was stolen (paid for 3000 given 1500) only not in the conventional way you are thinking about.

There is a difference between the "paper" stock and the physical stock. So it really does not matter how it was stolen because its theft all the same.

This is standard accounting .. nothing specific to the junta.

Well then the fraud is in the milling which if it equates to 600bn worth would mean that the milling yields were the worst ever.

1kg in has a standarr yield of rice out give or take afew percent. U can't just lose 30% more in the milling. Anyone with a half a brain could find that issue in half a day.

So, try again.....

I gave an example of how they could do the fraud.. if the farmer and the rice miller collide (means work together to defraud) they could do it in the way I discibe. This was just an example of how fraud could be committed not the definite answer to all fraud.

Thing was they did not have to worry about checks as long as YL was in power. So nobody could find that issue. Did you forget how they threatened the democrats when they showed rotting rice....

[Manbing]

The civil servants weren't fired for accounting errors, they were jailed for fraud.

Lest we forget, the rice farmers were paid asap when the junta took over.

It hasn't been the military government that forestalled payments.

2 payments were missed and the farmers were desperate.

I haven't read any news of the dirty politicians committing suicide over this.

Rich people playing with poor liveliehoods that's the issue here.

Not decimal placements over percentage points.

[longway]

The noose is inexorably tightening, no wonder she tried to make a run for the border.

[rubl]

If only Ms. Yingluck had been better at administration. Makes you wonder if at home she keeps track of household expenses.

On the other hand she may still surprise us all when during the Supreme Court case against her (assuming it will go on) she suddenly hands over the books she personally took care of as responsible person in charge of the RPPS

PS can pigs fly and whistle at the same time?

Edited February 23, 2015 by rubl

[Robby nz]

Well why does the junta claim there is physically little rice missing then?

Physically little rice missing? I think you will find they say a lot.

That is not the case at all

However, the upshot of the inspection in the East's 14 provinces was that only a few flaws were found. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonne total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Nationwide-rice-audit-ordered-by-Junta-nearly-comp-30239601.html

So that line of fraud is largely closed. The claim is that they managed to get hold of rice at below market price on the basis of export, but sold it domestically.

Easy to cherry pick when you want to give the wrong impression isn't it T a H

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744334-huge-amount-of-rice-missing-in-phichit/Posted 2014-07-20 06:31:25

Huge amount of rice missing in Phichit

The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Army's inspection of rice warehouses has found that almost 47,000 tonnes of rice is missing from a company's facility in Phichit's Bang Mun Nak district.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/foul-plays-discovered-rice-stockpile-inspections Jul 7, 2014

Several inspection teams Monday continued to randomly checked a rice warehouse in central Pathumthani province and found that 31,000 bags of rice have been missing from the warehouse.

Authorities discovered that the warehouse operator built a scaffold in between the huge piles of rice sacks and piled the sacks up the scaffold to make it look like there are rice sacks in the middle, despite that it was hollow inside. This was to deceive inspection team if they did not inspect it thoroughly.

Something of interest on this story about the scaffold warehouse is here : http://www.capitalrice.com/index.php/riceupdates/archive/262 It tells that there had been reports of rice missing from that warehouse since the previous July and November but neither the MOF or MOC had done anything about it.

That is only rice that was found to be missing from 2 warehouses that was discovered during the inspections that Yingluck 'urged' to take place.

I have not bothered to look up the total that was found to be missing in the investigation but can if need be, with links of course.

These are only losses from the rice that was in storage at the time of the inspections and takes no account of the rice that would have gone "Missing" from stocks before the inspection.

Neither does it take into account the rice that was lost in the 8 fires reported in storage warehouses or things like this :

Workers at a rice warehouse in Nakhon Si Thammarat’s Muang district load rice sacks onto a truck. It is reported that 500,000 tonnes of rice are being released from the warehouse, but it is not known where the rice is headed for. 

Interesting also that some of these trucks were reported to have Natwutt Transport written on them and the order for the removal of the rice was said to be signed by someone in the ministry of commerce where Khun Natwutt was an associate minister.

Perhaps there is yet more investigation needing to be done.

[mike324]

Physically little rice missing? I think you will find they say a lot.

That is not the case at all

However, the upshot of the inspection in the East's 14 provinces was that only a few flaws were found. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonne total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Nationwide-rice-audit-ordered-by-Junta-nearly-comp-30239601.html

So that line of fraud is largely closed. The claim is that they managed to get hold of rice at below market price on the basis of export, but sold it domestically.

I'm not sure if you read the article correctly, just because the East's 14 province had few flaws or 429 tones of rice missing, does not mean the other regions were squeaky clean. East has 2.32 million tons, the data for the rest of 15 million or so tons are not released yet.

Missing rice is one thing, the type of rice accounted for is another, it may show that rice is not missing but in reality the rice sitting there is also not the rice that was pledged. Article you quoted specifically said that the type of rice in many warehouses were not the types listed in the record even though the rice is there.

That is one of the schemes these corrupt folks used in order to avoid the detection of "missing rice", just replace with substandard rice, get your money and hit the highway. If you search the article "77-accused-of-rice-scheme-fraud" on google, you will see last month authorities have filed a case against 5 parties for switching the rice totaling 3.6 million tons causing about 65 billion baht in damage.

Edited February 23, 2015 by mike324

[rametindallas]

Officials ousted for fraud over govt rice deals

Ousted is good but will they spend any time in prison? Main participants in a fraud that cost the country 700 Billion Baht (and much more in other ways) should be dealt with harshly.