Staying safe on the road

[bobfish]

With yet another touring cyclist tragically killed by a vehicle recently, perhaps we should consider better ways to stay alive out there.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/802433-around-the-world-cyclist-killed-near-korat/

Unfortunately, Driver Education will be a loooonngg time coming around these parts,,,, so what do you do to increase your survival chances???

For me, I try to stick to quiet roads or those with a 'bike' lane [yeah I know...] and leave my rear light on flash mode. Maybe I should wear flouro clothes.

Otherwise, I guess it's stick to offroad MTB?

[taony]

The roads themselves are built to some retarded "system" and are inherently dangerous. There is no chance on earth for any Thai to learn how to drive properly because one does not have the opportunity to drive properly EVER. Driver education can help but its not the crux of the problem.

To increase my survival chances, I don't ride on the left of the road. The time I did two weeks ago because of the weather, I got cut off when I left space between me and the car in front of me and went off the bike. If it had been dry, I wouldn't have been vulnerable like that. I think you need to ride away from the chaos on the left even though it seems counter intuitive to be in the faster traffic.

The roads are dangerous because there is no buffer between the first lane of traffic and the footpath. Cars entering cannot physically enter traffic without using two or more lanes of the road they are trying to enter. Same goes for the u-turns. It is astronomically assinine. Every single day there are armies of police and "security" guards in front of malls, driveways and sois directing cars out and into traffic. All this when a few traffic signals would solve it.

There are not enough roads. The % of land area in Bangkok used for roads for example is less than half of what it is in other major cities. Most sois are dead ends and are nothing more than long drive ways to homes and businesses. The roads that do exist don't know if they are streets or super highways. It is shameful for Thailand that people need to risk their lives every time they go out of their house to buy a bit of milk. When someone needs to go somewhere on the other side of the road, they have to enter traffic, cross all the lanes of traffic, make a u-turn, cross all those lanes of traffic, go where they need to go , then repeat to get home. They are on the road too long and in danger the entire time. It is increduously STUPID. Its also the reason why almost every single person on the road does not turn into the road, use the first lane and then safely make their way over to the lane they need. Instead everyone feels pressure to get all the way to the right as soon as possible or they will miss the u-turn and be stuck in even more traffic trying to get to the next one. This behavior just carries over to all situations. I see it dozens of times a day when on my bike and it is so dangerous. Its not inherent. The same goes at u-turns or making right turn in the 'god forbid' rare occasions that it is possible. People creep out and creep out and then take risks to get into traffic because they know if they don't they could be stuck there for hours. In the meantime, people are swerving to get past them and there is chaos and danger all around. This happens in every single city and town and road in Thailand.

The Thai response is usually to suffocate things even more: close an intersection, build an over pass. Things are even more difficult then. What are bicyclists, pedestrians, motorcyclists to do? You think motorcyclists would ride over bridges or on sidewalks if there was a normal street plan? No they wouldn't. In Bangkok cars would ride on the sidewalk if they could. THE STREET PLAN IS ASSININE.

As more and more "development" occurs, it gets harder and hard to find routes to bike without taking unnecessary risks like riding over overpasses or on major roads. Its a shame and as biking gets more popular, there will be more accidents. The worst part is nothing will change in this third world country.

[bobfish]

I hear what you're saying Taony.

We probably all appreciate the "limitations" placed on and by vehicles in Thailand. I'm wondering what, if any, mitigation techniques other riders use in the traffic. Riding out in the fast stream sounds a bit fraught! but there are instances when you do need to be carefully assertive and make your intentions obvious to 'own the road'.

Maybe I should get an amulet??

[villagefarang]

I just got back from a blissful 67 km ride where I added a new 15 km section where I saw maybe three cars. Even on the 1020 which runs from Thoeng to Chiang Khong, there wasn’t much traffic and it has been widened recently, changing it from a dangerous road to a real pleasure to ride.

I lived in Bangkok for 30 years and never considered riding a bike but up here in Chiang Rai, or 55 km outside of Chiang Rai, the riding is great and there have been many improvements in my area. In my opinion it all depends on where you ride.

I even like driving the car into Chiang Rai town two or three times each week, going in on one road and back on another, which probable makes me a bit abnormal by farang standards.

[taony]

Use google street view to plan your routes and try to use roads that limit the number of extremely dangerous intersections. I try never to ride in the dark, but when it rains or you are under BTS or an over pass you can't always help that. I have a light on my bike in front and back, a light on my helmet, two high-vis reflective strips for my ankles and a high-vis reflective vest. I use them all when riding home, even if I leave the office before dark if I think it will be dusk or dark by the time I get home.

When you ride you really need to develop your peripheral vision. You need to be able to block out what's not necessary to be concerned with and process everything else quickly. Learn how to see upside down and backwards so that you can turn around to see what's behind you and process it all very quickly. In places where you think you might get squeezed a bit, ride into the middle of the lane so cars can't pass you for the few seconds you need it. Be careful of buses. They will speed up and cut you off, then you pass them and they do it again at the next stop. If the bus stops in the second or third lane and you need to pass on the left, watch out for people getting on and off.

Always go up into the very front at a traffic light, this way when you accelerate you have some free seconds without all the cars and motorcycles next to you off to the races. If possible, take advantage of turning lights. Some cars in the other lanes will make u-turns instead of turning or there will be a break. Then you can go through the light. The police don't care and you are actually being more safe than listening to them. This morning I was able to go from Yommarat, over the tracks and all the way to Ratchadamnern without stopping and all by myself because I went through the intersection at Yommarat during a lull (at Nang Lerng, the guy in the booth didn't change the light until the intersection was already blocked, so I got extra time without cars). I was able to do the whole Phitsinulok stretch alone instead of cars racing by me at 50k and 5 mm away.

Try not to listen to anyone in uniform, you'll be safer haha.

[daveAustin]

Op, there's not really much you can do if living in a busy area. A lot of it is just down to luck that the dude racing up behind you in that split-second doesn't plough into you.

[moonoi]

Riding in Bangkok, pretty much everything that Taony says is correct. I find myself doing the same, quite often the safest place is over in the faster lanes, although I wouldn't recommend that approach to a beginner. You have to be very confident in your riding to get away with it, and once the traffic starts to pick up speed,you have to assertively switch lanes and take up a primary position on the inside.

I find it to be fun though, strangely enough.

I don't wear hi vis though, it has been proven in several experiments to make drivers pass closer and more recklessly, than without, even at night. Plus given I'm not small, if I can't be seen without hi vis then there is a bigger problem! I do have a bright yellow jersey in the style of a crash test dummy though.....but sometimes I think I might be tempting fate by wearing it.........

[chiangmaiexpat]

The solution to this problem is obvious: get a mountain bike and stay off the road! It's more fun anyway.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[fdimike]

I'm a touring cyclist and am always concerned about my safety on these roads. I think the situation has worsened somewhat with the addition of a lot of new vehicles on the road courtesy of the previous governments tax free program for first time car buyers. I've cycled through every country in SEA except Indonesia and as far as I'm concerned Thai drivers are the absolutely worst of the lot.

Here are some of the measures I use when cycling:

1. I never cycle with headphones in my ears unless I'm on a really deserted stretch of highway. I figure you really need all your senses on alert when cycling here.

2. I always cycle with at least 1 rearview mirror and always 2 when on tour.

3. I always ride in the center of the bike lane whenever possible.

4. I always wear bright cycling clothing and a helmet no matter where I am going.

5. I try not to ride at night if at all possible and always use a very bright head and tailight if I do have to ride at night.

6. I always wear cycling sunglasses to protect my eyes from bugs and other debris.

7. I nowmally wear a stretchable head scarf which can be used as a mask when riding through very dusty areas (road work).

Will the above protect me from a Thai idiot driver 100% of the time? Not hardly but it will go a long way to helping protect yourself.

[fdimike]

Chilean Cyclist Funeral

The cyclist here in Udon Thani are meeting tonight in the parking lot next to MacDonalds in UD Town to express our condolences to the family and possibly organize a group ride to the temple for his cremation. According to the Chilean Embassy this morning they are waiting for his wife to recover and receive permission from his family in Chile to move the body.

I for one think it would be a great display of concern if hundreds if not thousands of us turned up for his funeral. Who knows maybe just maybe the government and the police (good grief) may clamp down on Thai drivers who CONSTANTLY and FLAGRANTLY violate traffic laws. One can only hope.

[GarryP]

Some good ideas. I regularly ride on major roads. I cycle from home to Suvarnaphum Airport along Bang Na Trat round the airport and back down Onnuch. I too ride in the middle of the motorbike lane on Bang Na Trat, never wear head phones and always wear sunglasses to protect from insects and dust. Funnily enough I feel safer on Bang Na Trat than Onnuch. I was taken out on Onnuch by a motorcycle moron from behind. He passed so close his handlebars hooked on my small mirror. Not to much damage to me but my bike was run over by a following pick up truck.

I find on the larger roads in built up areas vehicles give you much less of a wide berth than on the motorways like Bang Na Trat.

I do not cycle at night very often.

I ride aggressively at turn offs from large roads. If you are going straight on, you need to get pretty much in the middle of a three lane highway as they widen for through traffic. Like the turn off near Mega Bang Na. The first couple of times can be hairy but you get used to it. I also use those U-turn bridges as it save a hell of a lot of time. Often the turn offs on the flat are several kms further on.

[taony]

And this is my new best friend....

http://totobobo.com/index-hk.html

[northernphil]

Chilean Cyclist Funeral

The cyclist here in Udon Thani are meeting tonight in the parking lot next to MacDonalds in UD Town to express our condolences to the family and possibly organize a group ride to the temple for his cremation. According to the Chilean Embassy this morning they are waiting for his wife to recover and receive permission from his family in Chile to move the body.

I for one think it would be a great display of concern if hundreds if not thousands of us turned up for his funeral. Who knows maybe just maybe the government and the police (good grief) may clamp down on Thai drivers who CONSTANTLY and FLAGRANTLY violate traffic laws. One can only hope.

If a hundred turned up there would be one or two which would add to the list of accidents this year. License to drive/License to kill.

[warrimurf]

Talking motorcycles. I'm a big bike rider, been riding for 45 years and diving in Thailand for 12. Never had an accident that I caused yet.

Lesson number,

1. No one can see you and if they can they are going to try to kill you.

2. Other drivers, bikes included ARE going to do the unexpected also trying to kill you.

3. Every one is trying to kill you.

Get the idea?

Drive defensively and expect the unexpected, you might with a bit of luck be OK.

[warrimurf]

Sorry forgot to mention bicycles.

Everything I said before applies to cycles too, but even more.

My daughter was a cyclist in Bangkok going out with groups training for triathlons cycling to places like Khao Yai and even as far as Phonsavan in Laos.

Laos is fine for bicycles, traffic is much slower there are lots of cyclists touring . I just returned from a trip to Laos on my '1200 Ducati' I hardly went over 65kmh and there was much less traffic too.

She cycled to Pattaya, against my advice, once.

On the return it just got too dangerous so she stopped a taxi and came home in that.

Then one day in Bangkok a car ploughed into the training group severely injuring one of them.

She stopped riding in Bangkok.

Riding a bicycle in Thailand is close on suicide. Riding a motorcycle is just downright dangerous, but hell, it's a lot of fun.

[Puwa]

This is a good topic, and I wish I had more to contribute, but most of my safety measures have been covered by others. I'll just add the advice my father gave when first teaching me to drive: "Always assume that the other guy is a jackass." Words to live--and stay alive--by.

[nithisa78]

http://www.smith-system.com/downloads/Drive_Different.pdf

[nithisa78]

And this is my new best friend....

http://totobobo.com/index-hk.html

Thank you, very good of you.

http://www.smith-system.com/downloads/Drive_Different.pdf

[T_Dog]

How about riding on the shoulder? Is it safest on the very outside edge, or do you think you can "assert your lane" by staying in the middle of it? The closest calls I have had were with cars overtaking on the shoulder and brushing past me, usually at high rates of speed so they can cut into traffic. In the west, overtaking on the shoulder is highly illegal, but it is common practice in Thailand and every cyclist needs to be aware of that.

[GarryP]

How about riding on the shoulder? Is it safest on the very outside edge, or do you think you can "assert your lane" by staying in the middle of it? The closest calls I have had were with cars overtaking on the shoulder and brushing past me, usually at high rates of speed so they can cut into traffic. In the west, overtaking on the shoulder is highly illegal, but it is common practice in Thailand and every cyclist needs to be aware of that.

On top of that, the shoulder is the place where all the broken glass and other debris gathers on many large roads. Because of that I try to stay in the center of the shoulder (outside lane) rather than close to the curb.

[KhnomKhnom]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

[fdimike]

Nice attitude you have there Khnom . Why not ban all vehicles of any type other than cars & trucks? Let's see now there are the som laws (pedal type), tuk tuks in several different styles, push carts, cows, oxen, water buffalo to contend with as well. Have I left any unusual vehicle out? May I suggest you act like a rational human being and drive calmly and defensively as the roads are open to all.

[Don Aleman]

Best way to stay safe on Thai roads is to stay OFF Thai roads !

[bobfish]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

Well KK,

After reading your above comment, I can only find agreement with you as follows:

KhnomKhnom 2014-12-27 18:44:38......

"I find too many tv responses to be vile and would like to attach a Thumbs Down. Also, if I genuinely believe tv response is dead wrong or misleading in a dangerous way, I would like the vote against it.

I do not wish anyone banned, but I would like to express a small objection to some entries.

Do you wish the same ?"

[bobfish]

Disregarding the above, many thanks to all CYCLISTS who have taken the time to respond with ideas.

Ride safe!

[GarryP]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

The "only more selfish people on the road are" those who believe the road is for them and them alone.

The vast majority of bicycle accidents in Thailand are not a result of any reckless or misuse of the roads by the cyclists, but rather misuse by those in control of motorized transport. I find that in general cyclists tend to be much more road aware than other road users. Basically, you are saying, "Why should I have to be careful about cyclists when I am behind the wheel?" Well the simple answer is, you should not only be careful about cyclists but all other traffic. That is the problem in Thailand. Many drivers and motorcyclists have never learned to drive or ride properly, in a safe manner, or have developed road awareness so half the time when they are driving dangerously, they do not even know they are doing anything wrong. That is their fault not the fault of the cyclist who keeps in lane.

[h90]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

yes this selfish reckless bicycle riders often enough cause scratches on beautiful cars. While it costs to clean the streets from the blood and bones of crashed bicycle riders, they don't even pay the tax on gasoline.

Bikers are true sociopaths who should be put in jail or better shot on sight.

(What is the price for winning the troll competition? )

[h90]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

The "only more selfish people on the road are" those who believe the road is for them and them alone.

The vast majority of bicycle accidents in Thailand are not a result of any reckless or misuse of the roads by the cyclists, but rather misuse by those in control of motorized transport. I find that in general cyclists tend to be much more road aware than other road users. Basically, you are saying, "Why should I have to be careful about cyclists when I am behind the wheel?" Well the simple answer is, you should not only be careful about cyclists but all other traffic. That is the problem in Thailand. Many drivers and motorcyclists have never learned to drive or ride properly, in a safe manner, or have developed road awareness so half the time when they are driving dangerously, they do not even know they are doing anything wrong. That is their fault not the fault of the cyclist who keeps in lane.

I think the poster is a troll.....while on the beginning it might be an opinion, when it goes to only allow motorbikes with side car it gets obvious trollish

[StreetCowboy]

Sorry for deaths and injuries, but bicycles have no biz being on busy Thai roads and streets used by cars/trucks. I find the only more selfish people on the road are motorcyclists, but bicyclists come in very near tops. Hey, selfish....... roads are made for cars! Get off, get out. Both kinds of bikes should be banned in congested areas.

Motorbikes should be legal only with a side car in BKK.... that puts the hogs in line with everyone else... no more cutting to the front and no more taking off car doors open at the curb. Put passengers in the side car and stop two to four on one bike. Easy help toward the ultimate solution.

Well KK,

After reading your above comment, I can only find agreement with you as follows:

KhnomKhnom 2014-12-27 18:44:38......

"I find too many tv responses to be vile and would like to attach a Thumbs Down. Also, if I genuinely believe tv response is dead wrong or misleading in a dangerous way, I would like the vote against it.

I do not wish anyone banned, but I would like to express a small objection to some entries.

Do you wish the same ?"

I thought KK gave a great illustration of Puwa's point.

[warrimurf]

Some really weird views out there.

The roads are for all and it's our responsibility to drive with consideration for others no matter what they are using.

The typical dangerous attitude 'they don't have any right to be there' is quite ridiculous and show a contemptuous view of other road users.

The rule that motorcycles should only drive on the far left is archaic, dangerous and quite ridiculous hence the reason bikes run into doors that are being opened the law requires them to pass on that side.

Many other countries strictly enforce the rights of cyclists. Try UK or Australia for example.

Also why larger sized motorcycles are banned from express-ways and other roads is bizarre, it's normal practice in the rest of the world any bike over 250 can easily keep up with or even out run most traffic now. Personally I find it extremely dangerous manoeuvring a 1200cc bike through the inside lane no end of vehicles pulling left without signal or indication- buses, taxi and the not sure where I'm going types. I want to be in the far right lane where no one is going to mow me down by turning across my path.

45 years of driving has taught me a lot.