Improving Thai Pronunciation

[foolforlove]

I've studied other languages (eg French) and often those language schools have special workshops or classes specifically for improving pronunciation.

However, I have yet to find something like this for Thai language at a school here in Bangkok.

I've talked to thai language teachers about this and they usually just say "oh just listen to the people around you and try to immitate them".... or something else about as equally impractical (impractical because listening to people around you is unstructured and chaotic... as far as vocabulary, style, and regional accent differences).

So...anyone know a school here in Bangkok that offers a specific syllabus for improving thai pronunciation?

thanks much

[jdinasia]

almost any school .... but as AUA does a LOT of listening at first it might be useful

I am partial to Unity Thai Language school ... cheap and useful

[taxexile]

i dont think you can actively improve pronunciation.

but the more that you listen , even having a radio or tv on and half listening ,sometimes repeating phrases to yourself or out loud , even if you dont understand them , it just helps the tongue and speech muscles to get used to the new sounds and the speech centres in the brain slowly begins to retain the patterns and your pronunciation will slowly improve.

yes , you can actively try and improve the pronunciation of say , a short vowel or a rising tone for each word that you read or speak , but you cant do that when conversing with people , your speech would be too slow and contrived , i think you need to listen and slowly, over time , absorb word clusters so that , as i said , when you use them in conversation , the sounds and phrasing is produced automatically and hopefully correctly without having to think.

maybe some of the real linguists here could elaborate or dispute that.

i have studied thai with quite a few teachers , and none of them seem to teach with any methodology , other than the aua listening course....

(which come to think of it , might be just the thing for you !) , whenever i asked for some reason or logic behind anything i was always just told

"dtong jam!".... youve just got to remember it.

when the compliments change from "poot geng" to "poot chat" , you will know that you are getting somewhere.

[withnail]

when the compliments change from "poot geng" to "poot chat" , you will know that you are getting somewhere.

I get that quite a lot, my Thai is still not great (my vocabulary is still too low for example) but what I do know I apparently say quite well. I think the reason for this is that I had lived in Thailand for about 2 years before I made any real effort to learn Thai. Therefore I'd had a lot of listening practice before ever speaking much. MY other problem is a lack of confidence when speaking Thai. This however meant that when I did start learning to speak I didn't have too many bad habits.

My second piece of advice would be to learn to read and write Thai (if you can't already) as this helps to concrete the pronunciation into your brain.

I guess my method was sort of a real life AUA approach, although I must admit their programme has never really interested me.

[In the Rai!]

I agree with withnail,

The best way to learn pronunciation IMO is to speak as much as you can and listen when they say it.

I used to find that going to have a beer or coke at a bar and just sitting and chatting in Thai was great for learning pronunciation. (not always the best for new vocab) but they will certainly tell you when you say something incorrectly, thats when try it again until you get it correct. IMO you are far better to try and practice with many people as that is a real gauge of how clear you are.

Some of my friends can speak Thai well because they practice with their girlfriends and the GF is used to what they are saying, but other people cant understand them.

This is why it is so important to get out and speak to everyone because if everyone can understand you, that is your gauge on being able to พูดชัด puut Chart or not!

In The Rai!

[sbk]

I studied Mandarin at the University level for 3 years with a Taiwanese teacher who was very strict about correct pronunciation (and then lived in Taiwan briefly) so I was ahead of the game when I started learning Thai.

That said, my biggest help towards correct pronunciation was listening to my 4 year old nephew and his mom. He would say something, she would say it back, but clearly and slowly.

Kids are the best teachers for something like this, I think because they are learning it too and tend to speak much slower than adults.

[meadish_sweetball]

yes , you can actively try and improve the pronunciation of say , a short vowel or a rising tone for each word that you read or speak , but you cant do that when conversing with people , your speech would be too slow and contrived , i think you need to listen and slowly, over time , absorb word clusters so that , as i said , when you use them in conversation , the sounds and phrasing is produced automatically and hopefully correctly without having to think.

Well, results are a combination of the learner's natural abilities and interest as well as the teacher or method used. I have no gripes with your method except that before you start with that, it could be good to learn a blueprint of correct pronunciation which you can go back to for reference.

I am convinced most people can improve their pronunciation to a great degree with the right type of coaching, and I am also convinced that it is best to start working on it straight away so as not to content oneself too early. The problem is, many Thai language teachers do not provide or know how to give concrete advice for pronouncing Thai sounds.

I think the following things will help

a.) You need access to a Thai person who can be the judge of if you say something right or wrong

b.) You need a carefully written down phonetic description of how to form your lips and move your tongue, as well as modulate your voice pitch. This is something physical, something you do with your body, and so it can be described.

The natural state of our tongues is laziness. They try to find the path of least resistance, fall back on the same groves it has been before. Therefore, many English people who naturally speak with a US/Ireland type 'r' will not attempt to acquire an alveolar, trilled 'r' of the Scottish/Spanish/Standard Thai type. I have also noticed a funny effect with some speakers of Dutch, who use an American type non-trilled 'r' in their English, but when they speak Thai replace the 'r' with a uvular sound /R/ such as in French/Western German/Southern Swedish... which is completely off the wall in a Thai context.

If you rely too heabily on emulating the way others speak, you will pick up their "bad" speech habits, such as no distinction between /l/ and /r/. This is not a problem for being understood as it is so wide spread, but it is an unneccessary mistake and will make it more complicated to learn to read and spell correctly.

Anyway Tax, you're correct that carefully pronounced Thai and colloquial Thai sound very different. The advantage of starting with exaggeratedly careful Thai is that you form the right pattern in your mind first instead of trying to make a half-arsed emulation of what you think you are hearing.

The tone contours and sounds are partially modified in everyday speech, but the basic underlying patterns are the same, otherwise communication would be extremely difficult.

In order for an individual learner to sort out what parts of a person's overall Thai speech are important, distinguishing features, and which ones are individual speech habits, dialect, a speech impediment, a variation expressing mood, and/or sloppy pronunciation, it REALLY helps to learn which features are important to determine meaning. This is the point of formal learning. Once you have established this, it is much easier to navigate the rest.

[taxexile]

interesting post , meadish.

i guess its ANOTHER trip back to the drawing board for me then.

[jdinasia]

Anyway Tax, you're correct that carefully pronounced Thai and colloquial Thai sound very different. The advantage of starting with exaggeratedly careful Thai is that you form the right pattern in your mind first instead of trying to make a half-arsed emulation of what you think you are hearing.

The tone contours and sounds are partially modified in everyday speech, but the basic underlying patterns are the same, otherwise communication would be extremely difficult.

I 100% agree with this !!

PLUS if you learn clear, proper, Central Thai .... you WILL be understood everywhere! I honestly cannot always understand my landlord. He is Muslim and very much SOUTHERN THAI besides the southern dialect he also mixes in Yawi . However, he and his family always understand me!