Envoy rejects US paper's attack on Thai government

[Alwyn]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

You might be correct but I don't hear any alternatives from you? Robert Heinlein summed it up nicely:

“Democracy is a poor system of government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is that it is eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever tried.”

[2fishin2]

Thailand doesn't ASK for US handouts - I believe it to be a paltry amount not worth worrying about anyway which should be refused the next time it is offered (unless it is given sincerely and with no strings attached).

If Prayut hadn't have intervened when he did then what would the 'red' death toll be and in what state would Thailand be in now?

He has created stability, happiness amongst the people, is getting things done across the board successfully, stamping down on corruption and other crimes committed by wrongdoers plus attacking a whole range of problems that were created by the previous abject excuse of a government.

Think about it, that shouldn't be hard, even for you.

Prayut has "created happiness amongst the people"....LOL. Something is very wrong when a country derives its happiness from an Army General.

"Is getting things done across the board" ...LOL. Govt budget disbursement rate has plummeted (only 15% of the fiscal year investment budget has been disbursed...), the 21st petroleum concession is getting no where, the 4G auction is getting pushed back to 2016, Education is going to back to the stone ages...

"stamping down on corruption"...LOL. What are your examples?

He is the most popular PM of Thailand there has ever been according to most/all opinion polls - there is nothing wrong BTW when happiness comes from an army general that has prevented an ongoing conflict from going on that was responsible for countless murders and deaths and was leading to the bankruptcy of Thailand. You should be thankful that he had the good sense and decency to intervene and put things right!!

If Thaksin had his way nearly 100% of the budget money would be in the pockets of his cronies by now. What Prayut is doing is getting the authorities to justify the spending to avoid waste and ensure that it is distributed wisely to where it is most needed and will benefit the Nation so he is doing it carefully.

It is not the idea to spend the budget as fast as you can as that is irresponsible to the extreme!!!

The petroleum concession and 4G auctions are rightly being done properly as there is a massive amount of money at stake (not the kind of thing that Yingluck worried about, admittedly) - I believe that Prayut wanted the process speeded up but there were protestations from certain organisations and committees and he listened to what they were saying (yes, LISTENED) and noted their suggestions and objections about certain aspects of the process and delayed proceedings based on those until a better and fairer way is worked out.

I don't agree with all they are planning on education but as far as I am aware they are simply plans at the moment and he can hardly blamed for taking education back to the stone ages as he hasn't really changed much, if anything yet on that front!!

How can you be brazen enough to say that he is not stamplng down on corruption. Ask (Thaksin's) police force if he is doing anything about it, or the last corruption ravaged government and their (chosen) corrupt political officers that conspired with them to commit said corruption!!! I think that they would beg to differ on your closing statement.

Trust me brother, Thaksin and Ying did not hold the patent on corruption it was in place several thousands of years before them. Corruption is endemic in Thai society and it was not introduced into society because of those two individuals alone.

The junta has done nothing that everyone before has done. Carry's a big stick and talks big. Allows no opposition or voice from ordinary people. Its their way or you are whisked off to reeducation camps. We see the headlines of this everyday. Just yesterday the junta chief said he doesnt like what the media is saying and is threatening to being them for education. Is that something free thinking societies do?

Why havent they arrested Suthep for the civil unrest and disobedience him and his thugs caused? Why?

Hes the most popular hahah thats a stretch. He took over unelected and unchallenged and he has thrown his opposition into jail and camps. He threatens anyone or anything at every chance he gets if they oppose him. Him and his military backers have beaten Thailand into submission.

He has said he will do things but nothing of what he is doing is "his" they are old policies and programs, nothing original. Be real about this, he believes in nothing but his own self promotion.

Watch how he interacts with people and the media. Look at his demeaning facial expressions and gestures. Read his childish and outlandish comments and especially when someone disagrees with him. He is a bad person who talks to people as though he somehow owns them.

Governments do not dictate happiness and dictators do not define what makes a person happy, the individual does.

Edited March 2, 2015 by 2fishin2

[rubl]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

You might be correct but I don't hear any alternatives from you? Robert Heinlein summed it up nicely:

“Democracy is a poor system of government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is that it is eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever tried.”

"Nope. Gadflies such as yourself are utterly necessary. Nor am I opposed to

'turning the rascals out'-it's usually the soundest rule of politics. But it's

well to take a look at what new rascals you are going to get before you jump at

any chance to turn your present rascals out. Democracy is a poor system of

government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is

that it is about eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever

tried. Democracy's worst faults is that its leaders are likely to reflect the

faults and virtues of their constituents-a depressingly low level, but what else

can you expect? So take a look at Douglas and ponder that, in his ignorance,

stupidity, and self-seeking, he much resembles his fellow Americans, including

you and me . . . and that in fact he is a notch or two above the average. Then

take a look at the man who will replace him if his government topples."

Stranger in a strange land - Robert A. Heinlein

[SaamBaht]

In defense of Thai people Martial Law was needed when you have political sides who don't respect freedom of speech and different views you have chaos,as we saw children for god's sake were being killed over what?

Strange the military didn't restore order in partnership with the elected government.

[DaddyWarbucks]

I hope that the Thais stay clear of the US version of democracy/corporatocracy.

The US isn't a democracy. Go back to school.

Then what is the government?

..."A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage."

That is how Ambrose Bierce defined democratic politics in The Devil's Dictionary.

[billd766]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Oh I don't know, maybe because the alternative isn't too attractive? Anyway, apparently it doesn't take much to have a democracy - as the man said

“If we have a government, if we have an interim constitution, if we have a cabinet, we have democracy.”

Of course a leader may get more respect from other, more established, democracies if those three qualifiers were not the direct result of a coup.

Here WAS a government recently called the PTP, there was a constitution of 2007, there was a cabinet but where wasd the democracy?

Winning the election does NOT mean you have democracy. That is one small step along the road towards it

Honesty, morality, respect for the rules of law from all parties INCLUDING the government, consorting with known criminal fugitives, allowing free speech in parliament, working for ALL of the people in the country and many other things were totally missing from the PTP government but as they "won" the election they believed then and still do now that they had the RIGHT TO RULE THE COUNTRY THEIR WAY.

[KimSamui]

Thailand is going backwards in time, entrenching the Elite.

i would have thought better of people in this Forum.

Perhaps you are happy with your freedoms curtailed but a lot of us are not.....put it to a vote.

[TomJoad]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Your knowledge of democracy and history is lacking.

I know enough history to be aware that Thailand has never started a war that cost the lives of millions of civilians.

It's possible over a million Iraqis died because of the Bush Administration's mismanagement of their effort to form a "beachhead for Democracy in the heart of the Middle East."

[NongKhaiKid]

I'm disappointed, he never mentioned Thainess or foreigners not understanding Los.

[bikerbri]

In defense of Thai people Martial Law was needed when you have political sides who don't respect freedom of speech and different views you have chaos,as we saw children for god's sake were being killed over what? random bombing's by who? and for what? shooting's It was if they were rabid animals. The military restored calm the police didn't there a part of the problem they can be bought. I sorry but having not had a real democracy Thai's don't understand the power they are given or how to use it yet. The vote is a powerful weapon and should not be sold or bought by anyone.It was written the Pen is mightier than the sword, but the vote is the voice of the people. So want change tired of same oh same oh? the use your vote and bring about change or you doom your children and your children's children. I'm not trying to justify the coup but this is Thailand it is what it took to bring back some form of order I have Thai friends who have and could have been victims. So know we watch and wait to see where it goes from here.In the US there can't be coup's cause the people are armed and there are more armed people than any countries military in the world. Good luck to all Thai people We will be watching.

Can you tell me how elections are going to make Thai's respect freedom of speech and accept different views and who is going to teach Thai,s to respect the power of their vote and how to use it? Better that Thailand adopts the Chinese version of democracy.

[unclueng]

There is an article today in a newspaper that we can't link to on TV Forum that addresses this issue. A have sent the link as a comment to the Washington Post.

[BestBitterPhuket]

If the current Thai government can prove that they are doing they are doing the very best to reform and improve the lives if all Thais, nobody will care about elections or democracy. A good example is singapore which, under Lee Kuan Yew, was never very democratic, but were doing a fantastic job to lift the country and the WHOLE population. Nobody ever truly questioned singapore for their democratic track record, because the Lee Kuan Yew fovernment's incredible successful and honest job for the people of singapore. If Gen Prayuth can show the same progress and results, he will have the support of ALL Thais, and nobody in the west will care about he being elected or not.

[onelasttime]

I'm yet to be convinced that true democracy exists anywhere in the world today. It may have once in Periclean Athens but today we have such rampant manipulation of the populace through the media, big end of town lobbyists garnering support for laws whose end point interest is dubious, that democracy is almost a shame. Having said that it may well be the best there is; BUT and it is a BIG BUT, its success or failure depends so much on the political sophistication of the people. The West still does not have a perfect working democracy after hundreds of years of trial and error so it is no surprise that a fledgling democracy like Thailand will struggle for some years to come. I am starting to wonder though that as far as Thailand is concerned, democracy may not be the ideal model to follow. By and large, the Thais that I know are either too busy scratching out a living or so entrenched in their political views that any informed comment or discussion is largely pointless.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[jesimps]

In defense of Thai people Martial Law was needed when you have political sides who don't respect freedom of speech and different views you have chaos,as we saw children for god's sake were being killed over what? random bombing's by who? and for what? shooting's It was if they were rabid animals. The military restored calm the police didn't there a part of the problem they can be bought. I sorry but having not had a real democracy Thai's don't understand the power they are given or how to use it yet. The vote is a powerful weapon and should not be sold or bought by anyone.It was written the Pen is mightier than the sword, but the vote is the voice of the people. So want change tired of same oh same oh? the use your vote and bring about change or you doom your children and your children's children. I'm not trying to justify the coup but this is Thailand it is what it took to bring back some form of order I have Thai friends who have and could have been victims. So know we watch and wait to see where it goes from here.In the US there can't be coup's cause the people are armed and there are more armed people than any countries military in the world. Good luck to all Thai people We will be watching.

So why didn't the military step in as soon as the protests started to protect the elected government and prevent all the mayhem?

I know, and I'm sure all the other supporters of democracy on here do too.

[heybruce]

Envoy rejects US paper's attack on Thai government

well of course he would...

here is the editorial and

here is this guy's response.

you be the judge...

Thanks for the link, it's a good read.

For those who have posted rants about how the US government should mind its own business and get its house in order--the editorial wasn't written by the US government, and it criticizes the government's weak response to the situation in Thailand.

Imagine that, a paper criticizing its own government! You get that sort of thing in a country with freedom of press.

[KarenBravo]

Democracy is the only form of government where you get a chance to "kick the rascals out" using a vote and not blood-shed. That is it's strength.

[heybruce]

In defense of Thai people Martial Law was needed when you have political sides who don't respect freedom of speech and different views you have chaos,as we saw children for god's sake were being killed over what?

Strange the military didn't restore order in partnership with the elected government.

The most directly to the point criticism of "the military had to do it" argument I've seen. Very well put!

[heybruce]

There is an article today in a newspaper that we can't link to on TV Forum that addresses this issue. A have sent the link as a comment to the Washington Post.

Do you mean the Bangkok Post? All I could find was a couple of articles referring to polls that are not allowed to criticize the government.

If you meant a different paper, you can give its name and the title of the article even if you can't post a link.

[Yann55]

If I were Thai, regardless of my political sympathies, I would be absolutely infuriated by the level of condescension, arrogance, utter ignorance and aggressive stupidity shown by the Washington Post on this issue.

What is it with Westerners constantly giving democracy lessons to the rest of the world ? Is it that our countries are a sort of Shangri-La where everything is fine and dandy just because people get to vote for one buffoon or another every now and then ?

Is there any sensible and informed person in the world who still believes that Western countries are actually governed by their 'democratically elected' governments rather than their financial and economical tycoons ?

Democracy is not a magic pill, it works only when a vast number of pre-requisites are put together, a miracle which happens once in a blue moon.

Every democratic country has faults of varying degrees. Yes "pure democracy" is a near impossibility to attain, but it should be the end-goal, should it not?

If democracy shouldn't be promoted, what should in your opinion?

I didn't say that democracy was a bad goal, or that it shouldn't be promoted. But promoting is one thing, patronizing is another.

As often happens on this Forum (and others), you 'reply' to things I did not say rather than to those I did say.

But OK, I get your point, Sir.

It's fine to have an ideal, whether political, religious or other (artistic for example) but it's NOT ok to try and stuff if down other people's throat. Why don't people realize that humanity is multi-faceted, complicated, varied, and therefore it's absurd to try and make up a common ideal (or system) for everyone ?

Let's take the example of China (and everyone is welcome to draw a parallel with what's going on here in Thailand)...

There is very little democracy in China right now, everybody knows that, including the Chinese, who obviously have a brain just like we do. It's the software that differs. Precisely because they're not idiots, they realize that the tremendous economical growth they've enjoyed in the past two decades would simply not have been possible with a parliament, bickering (and self-serving) political parties, highly vocal (and more often than not, irresponsible) media and all the paraphernalia of our Western democracies.

Given the choice between economic growth and democracy, most Chinese choose the former and why wouldn't they ?

In 1989, when the Tian An Men disaster occured, it was a very different situation. The (mostly) well-off and privileged students who started the movement demanded democracy because they were heavily influenced by Western propaganda. These sad events did not bring democracy but they did push the old guard in power to start a wave of reforms which eventually led to an economic boom. Today not every Chinese person benefits from that boom, of course, but many do. Isn't that how things are supposed to work ? Gradually and realistically ?

The ultimate goal of human beings is not democracy, it's happiness. As the saying goes money doesn't guarantee happiness, but it sure helps when you go to the market to buy food. When people are dirt poor and feel their future holds nothing but starvation and misery, they do revolutions and embrace ideals (read promises) not for the sake of those ideals but because they might improve their life.

If and when a strong middle class emerges in China, things will change, gradually and realistically. Because they can't not change, it's inscribed in all of history, everywhere. Until then why don't Westerners mind their own business ?

Edited March 2, 2015 by Yann55

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Simply because the US has decided that Democracy is the best system for the world and they are willing to show countries the error of their ways if they do not agree.

We have seen the success of this in places like Vietnam.....Err, no lets not use that as an example.

How about more recently in Iraq and Libya where...... No those are not good examples either.

Well Afghanistan then, OK as long as they keep troops there it should hold.

And they always come out strongly against any coup...... well except when it is in their interests such as in Egypt lately.

This is pale in comparison to the number of people that was killed by Stalin, Maoist China and N. Korea, as you will note they were all undemocratic. But then again people like you think the whole world is wrong and Thailand's elite and their puppets are correct.

[Robby nz]

In defense of Thai people Martial Law was needed when you have political sides who don't respect freedom of speech and different views you have chaos,as we saw children for god's sake were being killed over what? random bombing's by who? and for what? shooting's It was if they were rabid animals. The military restored calm the police didn't there a part of the problem they can be bought. I sorry but having not had a real democracy Thai's don't understand the power they are given or how to use it yet. The vote is a powerful weapon and should not be sold or bought by anyone.It was written the Pen is mightier than the sword, but the vote is the voice of the people. So want change tired of same oh same oh? the use your vote and bring about change or you doom your children and your children's children. I'm not trying to justify the coup but this is Thailand it is what it took to bring back some form of order I have Thai friends who have and could have been victims. So know we watch and wait to see where it goes from here.In the US there can't be coup's cause the people are armed and there are more armed people than any countries military in the world. Good luck to all Thai people We will be watching.

So why didn't the military step in as soon as the protests started to protect the elected government and prevent all the mayhem?

I know, and I'm sure all the other supporters of democracy on here do too.

Because of several reasons; Under a democracy, that is held so dear, the people have the right to peaceful protest. Not just the right to vote.

The violence only started when the protesters were attacked and at that time and from then on it was the job of the police to prevent the violence and bring the offenders to justice. This they did not do instead protecting the attackers.

It is not the job of the military to protect an elected Government, they may be called on by an elected Government to handle a situation that is out of control as in 2010. The PT Government did not call on the military.

The military stepped in after the Government had resigned and the few remaining caretaker cabinet ministers and police under the watchful eyes of the DSI and CAPO showed they had no intention of attempting to control the violence. Indeed there was talk of civil war and setting up a government in the north of the country.

The military called the parties together and attempted to mediate a settlement with no success.

That was when they decided they had no alternative but to take over to avoid farther bloodshed and disruption.

[Godders]

No political prisoners heh?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804867-people-jailed-for-political-crimes-in-thailand-united/?utm_source=newsletter-20150302-0751&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

. . . .most of the people imprisoned for years were sincere. . .

The words I have italicised speak volumes, clearly indicating that the prisoners being referred to are not victims of the current junta, but of earlier "democratic" administrations (notably those run by the Shinawatras) which, the Washington Post article seeks to defend.

[Robby nz]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Simply because the US has decided that Democracy is the best system for the world and they are willing to show countries the error of their ways if they do not agree.

We have seen the success of this in places like Vietnam.....Err, no lets not use that as an example.

How about more recently in Iraq and Libya where...... No those are not good examples either.

Well Afghanistan then, OK as long as they keep troops there it should hold.

And they always come out strongly against any coup...... well except when it is in their interests such as in Egypt lately.

This is pale in comparison to the number of people that was killed by Stalin, Maoist China and N. Korea, as you will note they were all undemocratic. But then again people like you think the whole world is wrong and Thailand's elite and their puppets are correct.

So another one who wants to attack me with completely irrelevant things.

This is about the attitude of the US to Thailand and their selective indignation, not about what someone else did.

Have a look at the surrounding countries (ASEAN) if you want a comparison. Lao and Vietnam, communist, Cambodia a dictatorship dressed up as a semi democracy, Burma another semi democracy with seats reserved for the military. Then there is Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, are they democracies ?

Once again we see the fairytale of the elite totted out as an excuse for everything that is wrong with this country, easy to blame something "We cant talk about"

And you seem to be under the impression that the Washington Post represents the whole world.

[kblaze]

He is the most popular PM of Thailand there has ever been according to most/all opinion polls - there is nothing wrong BTW when happiness comes from an army general that has prevented an ongoing conflict from going on that was responsible for countless murders and deaths and was leading to the bankruptcy of Thailand. You should be thankful that he had the good sense and decency to intervene and put things right!!

If Thaksin had his way nearly 100% of the budget money would be in the pockets of his cronies by now. What Prayut is doing is getting the authorities to justify the spending to avoid waste and ensure that it is distributed wisely to where it is most needed and will benefit the Nation so he is doing it carefully.

It is not the idea to spend the budget as fast as you can as that is irresponsible to the extreme!!!

The petroleum concession and 4G auctions are rightly being done properly as there is a massive amount of money at stake (not the kind of thing that Yingluck worried about, admittedly) - I believe that Prayut wanted the process speeded up but there were protestations from certain organisations and committees and he listened to what they were saying (yes, LISTENED) and noted their suggestions and objections about certain aspects of the process and delayed proceedings based on those until a better and fairer way is worked out.

I don't agree with all they are planning on education but as far as I am aware they are simply plans at the moment and he can hardly blamed for taking education back to the stone ages as he hasn't really changed much, if anything yet on that front!!

How can you be brazen enough to say that he is not stamplng down on corruption. Ask (Thaksin's) police force if he is doing anything about it, or the last corruption ravaged government and their (chosen) corrupt political officers that conspired with them to commit said corruption!!! I think that they would beg to differ on your closing statement.

Yes, these polls can absolutely be trusted you are right, particularly when they are conducted by organizations such as the "Thai Researchers in Community Happiness", which ask "community leaders". You can't be that naive, you just can't.

Anyway, it wouldn't matter anyways if the polls were being done by truly neutral parties because the moment Prayut announced it was illegal to publicly speak out against the Junta, any poll asking if you like the Junta is tainted.

Regarding police, that has nothing to do with corruption and everything to do with a certain family member falling out of favor with a certain person and thus all who are associated with that person being expunged from power.

Lol...look at you, Prayut has done this Prayut has done that....

But when it comes to education, even you know its a quagmire of stupidity, and thus you say "he hasn't really changed much, if anything yet on that front!"

Perhaps you should read the news, because he is ordering changes and getting involved first-hand.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804357-prayut-to-lead-super-board-on-education-system-reform/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/126873/all-thai-students-required-to-recite-daily-prayuths-12-core-values/

"I want to be able to give clear orders, as the existing units within the Education Ministry and the NRC [National Reform Council] have not been able to yield very concrete results due to limitations and regulations," Prayut said.

"I want to be able to make adjustments to the education system right now, in terms of class structure, fairness and the curriculum. Important subjects such as civic duties, history, democracy and patriotism need to be included,"

[Fat Haggis]

LOL. Farcical and full of my little pony style dreams.

Yes, that very well describes the Washington Post editorial.

They seem to be oblivious of the fact that tens of thousands of enraged people were on the streets of Bangkok facing off for a civil war.

That is why the Thai Army took action when they did.

Since the military restored order more has been done to eliminate the systematic criminality that masquerades as government since Anand Panyarachun was Prime Minister in 1991.

The Washington Post is clueless.

As are you !! but your opinion is respected

[kblaze]

I didn't say that democracy was a bad goal, or that it shouldn't be promoted. But promoting is one thing, patronizing is another.

As often happens on this Forum (and others), you 'reply' to things I did not say rather than to those I did say.

But OK, I get your point, Sir.

It's fine to have an ideal, whether political, religious or other (artistic for example) but it's NOT ok to try and stuff if down other people's throat. Why don't people realize that humanity is multi-faceted, complicated, varied, and therefore it's absurd to try and make up a common ideal (or system) for everyone ?

Let's take the example of China (and everyone is welcome to draw a parallel with what's going on here in Thailand)...

There is very little democracy in China right now, everybody knows that, including the Chinese, who obviously have a brain just like we do. It's the software that differs. Precisely because they're not idiots, they realize that the tremendous economical growth they've enjoyed in the past two decades would simply not have been possible with a parliament, bickering (and self-serving) political parties, highly vocal (and more often than not, irresponsible) media and all the paraphernalia of our Western democracies.

Given the choice between economic growth and democracy, most Chinese choose the former and why wouldn't they ?

In 1989, when the Tian An Men disaster occured, it was a very different situation. The (mostly) well-off and privileged students who started the movement demanded democracy because they were heavily influenced by Western propaganda. These sad events did not bring democracy but they did push the old guard in power to start a wave of reforms which eventually led to an economic boom. Today not every Chinese person benefits from that boom, of course, but many do. Isn't that how things are supposed to work ? Gradually and realistically ?

The ultimate goal of human beings is not democracy, it's happiness. As the saying goes money doesn't guarantee happiness, but it sure helps when you go to the market to buy food. When people are dirt poor and feel their future holds nothing but starvation and misery, they do revolutions and embrace ideals (read promises) not for the sake of those ideals but because they might improve their life.

If and when a strong middle class emerges in China, things will change, gradually and realistically. Because they can't not change, it's inscribed in all of history, everywhere. Until then why don't Westerners mind their own business ?

"Given the choice between economic growth and democracy, most Chinese choose the former and why wouldn't they ?"

They never had a choice. That's the point.

[FangFerang]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Yes, indeed, one needs to ask this question.

Flawed so-called democracies such (as all of the Shinawatra controlled governments tend to be) are no better than corrupt dictatorships.

Thailand is not mature enough for democratic rule as certain parties don't play by the rules and the people in the Northern parts aren't clever enough to make informed decisions.

Someone please tell the Yanks to mind their own shop and butt out of Thailand's affairs. Thai people want to retain marshal law for as long as it is needed and they are VERY happy with this government's performance to date and so there is not a problem. I wonder what would happen if Thailand said to America until you sort out your differences and stop acting like little children when it comes to setting national budgets (caused by democracy) we will pull out of your silly little war games and play them with China instead.

Also, it makes much more sense to trade with fellow Asian neighbours rather than a tin-pot country like the US of A - especially with a nice little rail-link or 2 on the horizon!!!

America!!! you have been warned!!

"America!!! you have been warned!!"

Wow. Everyone in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles is quaking in fear from the Commonwealth Clown spewing spineless warnings.

"Thai people want to retain marshal law"

You believe polls rather than talk to 100 people? I have, and the Thais do not agree with your ill-conceived notion or slanted opinion.

"the people in the Northern parts aren't clever enough to make informed decisions"

Spoken like a true bigot. Here's your sign, and characterization.

[Fat Haggis]

It's hilarious that so many people want the U.S. to butt out of Thai affairs and yet they seem to think their opinions are somewhat different!!

Newsflash unless you have a vote, your opinions are no different from a Nations opinions, you're butting into another countries issues of which you can't change and if the powers that be wanted to purge out all farangs who have lived here and currently living here there's not a damn thing you can do if the Junta wanted this to happen.

Make sure you have an exit strategy as with all the other purges ongoing, it's only a matter of time before there's a purge on whinging expats with no life and no chance of ever being a voice to be heard in the kingdom ?

Oh and I'm being sarcastic for those who love using the report button ? 5555

[DKUNPUTAF713]

I guess my earlier post got lost in the shuffle so here it is again for your information!

For TVF members who are not aware that there are political prisoners in Thailand, I refer

those members to read an unblocked website

It is truly an enlightening source of information regarding what is happening in Thailand and is now being acknowledged by the outside world (finally)!

[rubl]

if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade.

The last time the USA was invaded they didn't notice till it was too late