HELP! Investment advice please!

[orientfan]

Can I ask a previous question in a slightly different way?

I am from UK, aged 54, moving to Thailand on a Retirement Visa and have 200,000 pounds in a UK bank account. My accommodation and food are covered in Thailand but my pension will not pay out for another 11 years so the 200,000 pounds must cover all other expenses. There's no Thai girlfriend or wife (nor likely to be!).

Does anyone have any investment advice as to what to do with this sum?

As you can tell, I am a novice at this but want to be best prepared. Thanks for any and all
practical advice!

Thank you,
John

[happydude303]

I've got no investment advice but that 18 grand a year for 11 years and that more than enough until the old pension comes through, but if I was you I'd by a property here in England with it, live of the rental income for 11 years then sell the property which will increase in value and make more profit , this why your have more then 200000 and that with you pension fund make you a happy man In Thailand, I wish I had your 200000 grand happy days

[happydude303]

And you have an escape route if you get fed up in Thailand or it all goes tits up

[wooloomooloo]

...but if I was you I'd by a property here in England with it, live of the rental income for 11 years then sell the property which will increase in value and make more profit...

Renting property out is not without risk. One bad tenant can wipe out profit in an instant and for some considerable time and could cost you your own money. You just never know.

Otherwise property is not a bad longterm investment, just don't expect to predict future market forces successfully and the value of so called tenants.

[wooloomooloo]

And you have an escape route if you get fed up in Thailand or it all goes tits up

Agreed. You'll get your property back sooner or later if it comes to it.

[KittenKong]

Does anyone have any investment advice ....

My advice is to be very careful, especially if you start asking "professional" investment advisers for advice, and even more so if they are based here. And stay at least one bargepole's distance away from any "business proposition" you may receive here.

I think that if I only had 200KGBP as a cushion I would consider splitting it across property, secure cash deposits and some sort of low-cost index tracking ETFs.

Unfortunately this is a bad time for cash (low interest rates, high prices of gilts/bonds) and a bad time for stocks (indexes at or near an all-time high in many countries). Property of course varies wildly by location.

One other thing you might want to consider is your exposure to future exchange rate movements (THB<>GBP) and whether you think you may want to return home at some point.

One more thing to consider is health care costs which could eat up your 200KGBP quite quickly here if something bad happened.

[AyG]

GBP 200,000 really isn't very much money if it's your only savings. A serious accident or illness could easily eat through a large chunk of that, so your first priority should be medical insurance (if you can get it). However, as you get older medical insurance will become nigh on impossible to get, so you'll need to preserve as much of that money as possible.

Accommodation and food provided but no wife sounds a little odd. Is there any circumstance under which these might go away, increasing your living costs?

Given the apparently precarious state of your finances, I would suggest you put the bulk of your money into Thai bank accounts, spending money in a savings account, the rest in a spread of fixed deposit accounts. This removes any exchange rate risk. Investing in bonds or equities entails far too great a risk of financial loss. However, be aware that putting the money in the bank will not keep up with inflation.

Actually, given the apparently precarious state of your finances, I would rather suggest that you divide your time between the UK and Thailand. That way you can retain free access to the NHS for any serious medical condition. Also, when you retire, your pension will be increased in line with UK inflation, rather than frozen.

You should also seriously consider deferring your move to Thailand and work a few more years to put more savings behind you. It appears you really haven't saved enough to retire so young.

[puukao]

54, 200k pounds and no debt? at 54, you are now too old to really enjoy life....so maybe spend the money on a 30-year old thai woman and make her happy!!!

i'm just kidding. i would bet it all on manchester united in their next game and then have some real money!!!

nah....how about buy 5 really nice cars and waste it all on nice things and then start over and make it a challenge!!!

they say the average american only has 3k in savings and tons of debt.....so you are not really living a fun life!!!!

look....200k pounds can get you a membership into my club. Actually, I charge 300k, but for a limited time I can hook you up!!!! offer expires soon!!!!

[rak sa_ngop]

Invest in Blue Chip UK companies. You could expect a return of 3 to 7 percent on selected companies which would give you an income of about 10,000 GBP per annum.

You should aim to build up a portfolio of 20 companies at least, as in the past year or so some highly rated dividend payers have had to substantially reduce/cut their dividends (e.g. Tesco).

If you can live on 10,000 GBP a year you will have an increasing dividend stream for life.

Check out the Motley Fool for one source of advice, but be aware that once you become non-resident of the UK you not be able to use UK based brokers for your investments.

[Sydneycraig]

you need an address to open the account in the uk but is there any rule to say that if you become a non-resident after that then you cant keep the account?

[AyG]

Invest in Blue Chip UK companies. You could expect a return of 3 to 7 percent on selected companies which would give you an income of about 10,000 GBP per annum.

You should aim to build up a portfolio of 20 companies at least, as in the past year or so some highly rated dividend payers have had to substantially reduce/cut their dividends (e.g. Tesco).

If you can live on 10,000 GBP a year you will have an increasing dividend stream for life.

Check out the Motley Fool for one source of advice, but be aware that once you become non-resident of the UK you not be able to use UK based brokers for your investments.

At any time this would be bad advice for someone of limited means needing to be financially secure in a currency other than GBP. Exchange rate risk is just too great. Swings of 30% between currency pairs are not uncommon. It's particularly bad advice at a time when a stock market "correction" (meaning crash) is widely predicted as QE comes to an end.

There are far better ways to achieve diversification than to invest in 20 individual companies (e.g. invest in City of London Investment Trust). Plus, monitoring 20 companies takes a lot of effort.

There's no guarantee that dividends will increase in the future. I believe (but can't immediately prove) that dividend yield on the FTSE100 has fallen over the last few decades. More recently, the FTSE All Shares dividend yield in 2008 was over 5%. It subsequently fell to less than 3%. (Source: https://timetric.com/index/ftse-all-shares-yield-month-end-monthly-ons/ )

And some stockbrokers will continue to allow you to trade after you leave the UK. Last time I checked the following did: Alliance Trust, Halifax, Hargreaves Lansdown, Strawberry, TD Direct. However, the only UK broker I'm aware of that may allow you to open an account as non-resident is Barclays, and this policy was under review last time I asked.

That said, I was able to open an account with Transact whilst non-resident using an offshore (Guernsey) trust. I believe this option is still available, but you have to go via an IFA.

[Sydneycraig]

Seems a lot of institutional investors are pulling cash out ATM so you might be right with a correction prediction ... Anyone else have thoughts on this... Cash is king for a while?

[AyG]

you need an address to open the account in the uk but is there any rule to say that if you become a non-resident after that then you cant keep the account?

It's more a matter of policy of the individual broker. AJ Bell YouInvest, Close Bros. and iWeb (and possibly others) will close your account if you become non-resident. Others will let you keep the account but not add further money. These include: Halifax and Hargreaves Lansdown.

[rak sa_ngop]

There's no guarantee that dividends will increase in the future. I believe (but can't immediately prove) that dividend yield on the FTSE100 has fallen over the last few decades. More recently, the FTSE All Shares dividend yield in 2008 was over 5%. It subsequently fell to less than 3%. (Source: https://timetric.com/index/ftse-all-shares-yield-month-end-monthly-ons/ )

And some stockbrokers will continue to allow you to trade after you leave the UK. Last time I checked the following did: Alliance Trust, Halifax, Hargreaves Lansdown, Strawberry, TD Direct. However, the only UK broker I'm aware of that may allow you to open an account as non-resident is Barclays, and this policy was under review last time I asked.

Taking my investment in Invesco Perpetual High Income Fund as an example, the distribution per unit was 12.0 p per unit in the tax year 2009/2010 and this has steadily increased to 25.2 p for the current year.

So the distribution has doubled in 5 years. However due to the current 'high' value of the units, the current yield has dropped to about 3.2 pc.

Having been invested in this fund for more than 10 years I am more than happy with the consistent annual income growth. However for the last 12 years I have been paying a management charge of 1.7 pc a year for this fund, which translates to a capital 'loss' of about 20 pc over the period.

I just wish I had 'gone it alone' and started making my own stock investments all those years ago. I could have made some poor investment decisions and not necessarily have been worse off.

I have now two trading accounts which allow share dealing by non-residents. One is TD International in Luxembourg and the second is HSBC Expat Banking Jersey. I would love to find another trading site because I can't stand HSBC and would love to dump them.

[AyG]

I have now two trading accounts which allow share dealing by non-residents. One is TD International in Luxembourg and the second is HSBC Expat Banking Jersey. I would love to find another trading site because I can't stand HSBC and would love to dump them.

Funnily enough, I opened an account with Internaxx (as TD International in Luxembourg) used to be known many years ago. I subsequently opened an account with Saxo in Singapore (a fairly painless process) because I was unhappy with Internaxx's high charges. Since then Saxo has increased its charges and TD International has just announced a major change in charging structure. Whilst Saxo would be a possibility for you, now I probably wouldn't recommend it over TD International. However, there are other Singapore brokers that might meet your needs.

[Griffo63]

I was in a similar position to you at the same age. I bought buy to let properties with about 60% gearing. Select an area you know and buy 4 one bedroom purpose built flats (no conversions) with £50k deposit on each. That'll give you a property portfolio of about £500k with a rental income net of mortgages of about £18k pa. At just 5% flat (not compound) growth your property will be worth £750k in 10 years time with a higher income. There are some pitfalls but multiple ownership will overcome most of them. Send me a personal message for more insight. It worked perfectly for me

[crazykopite]

The £ is awful against the baht leave your money in the UK that is what I have done and I have been over in Thailand for 10 years my money is under management in 2009 it was worth 35k today the investment stands at 58k so over the 6 year period on average it has made me around £3,888.00 per year tax free so I would imagine your returns would be better on 200 k. I have seen many who come over and lose everything just bring enough to see you out for a year good luck !

[maidee]

no financial products in UK ????

easy to come in, difficult to go back with you

[KIWIBATCH]

...I wouldn't invest a penny in Thailand......far too many scammers, unscrupulous stockbrokers, suspect banks, shonky property/real estate/financial advisors/dealers........etc etc etc....leave it in the UK.

[crazykopite]

Word of warning if you choose to live in Thailand your UK pension will not be increased year by year as thailand and the UK do not have an agreement in place so unless the rules change what you get in your first year will be what you get every year after unless you choose to move back to Europe or a Country that has a pension linked agreement with the UK. In April 2016 everyone of pension age in the UK will get a weekly income estimated to be around the £150 per week my birthday falls short by a month so I will end up with just £116 per week Life's a Bitch !!!!

[MaeJoMTB]

Thailand is not the place to ask for investment advice.

Keep your money in the MAINLAND UK, seek financial advice in the MAINLAND UK, keep a UK address.

Too many expat crooks in Thailand preying on people like you.

PS

With only 200k, if anyone even mentions QRops, they are a crook.

Edited March 3, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[stenor]

I can assist you please make contact on my e-mail address i.e.<snip>

Edited March 3, 2015 by Jai Dee
email address removed as per forum rules

[AyG]

Select an area you know and buy 4 one bedroom purpose built flats (no conversions) with £50k deposit on each.

The £ is awful against the baht leave your money in the UK

...I wouldn't invest a penny in Thailand......leave it in the UK.

Keep your money in the MAINLAND UK

So many people willing to offer advice either without reading/understanding the OP's situation (he needs income in THB, not GBP), or are utterly clueless about the real risks associated with exchange rate fluctuations.

Still, at least free advice is worth what you pay for it.

[Suffinator]

If you've got 200K to invest I would suggest any other country but Thailand. This is NOT the place to live or invest. Try other destinations, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia ... Iraq would be more favorable if the only choice were Iraq or Thailand.

My advise ... don't be the next victim ... go somewhere else.

[Estrada]

Place B800,000 in a long term time deposit account to cover the requirement for renewal of your extension of stay based on retirement (must still be in account 2months prior to renewal 1st year and 3months second year). Set up online banking with Bangkok Bank ,or whatever bank you choose, as your main bank. Place B1,000,000 in a mutual fund that pays daily interest and allows any sums to be cashed in on a daily basis. This will be your emergency/living fund. Keep B100,000 in your savings deposit account as a float coupled to an ATM card and linked on line. Top your savings deposit account up as required from your mutual fund account. Open a Stock Exchange Investment account with Maybank Kim Eng Brokers with say B7,000,000. Until you get to know what you are doing, invest in safe blue chip stocks that will increase in value over time, have a high dividend and plenty of liquidity. I invested B6,000,000 in 2010 and have made B22,000,000 over 4 years which is 360%. The stocks I invested in were mainly BTS, Advance, Intuch, which pay around 7-8%/annum (1 year Advance paid 17%). The value of the shares has also risen considerably. They also still have a long way to go the triggers being award of contracts for extension lines/new lines for BTS and decision on 4G Auction for Advance/Intuch.

Even an amateur can easily make 20%/annum safely. Plan to come out the stock exchange by 2019 as that is when the 11 year cycle of boom and bust will cause the World Stock Exchanges to drop. Then you buy again in 2020.

P.S. Steer clear of Expat Financial advisors too many scam artists and do it yourself.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Estrada

[typhootea]

I have now two trading accounts which allow share dealing by non-residents. One is TD International in Luxembourg and the second is HSBC Expat Banking Jersey. I would love to find another trading site because I can't stand HSBC and would love to dump them.

Funnily enough, I opened an account with Internaxx (as TD International in Luxembourg) used to be known many years ago. I subsequently opened an account with Saxo in Singapore (a fairly painless process) because I was unhappy with Internaxx's high charges. Since then Saxo has increased its charges and TD International has just announced a major change in charging structure. Whilst Saxo would be a possibility for you, now I probably wouldn't recommend it over TD International. However, there are other Singapore brokers that might meet your needs.

How does DBS Vickers Singapore compare? although I had to travel there to set up Bank account and

I have ETFs for S&P 500 and Bonds through ishares (Canadian ETF to avoid risk of USD death tax for the family which I would be exposed to if traded direct with US Broker) 60/40 split less than <1% fees. I may take a hit on the USD to Canadian USD

Some good advice if needed for members, but if looking for an income stream may be worth ETF / Bonds and rented property in UK

Andrewhallam.com

Also have a 5 Million Baht in Land and Homes paying about 3+%, for some entertainment money, although this is taxable.. can claim back tax at year end.

[gandalf12]

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you need an address to open the account in the uk but is there any rule to say that if you become a non-resident after that then you cant keep the account?

If there is I have not found it. I have UK bank and have been non-resident for a number of years

[MaeJoMTB]

So many people willing to offer advice either without reading/understanding the OP's situation (he needs income in THB, not GBP), or are utterly clueless about the real risks associated with exchange rate fluctuations.

Still, at least free advice is worth what you pay for it.

It appears you are the one reading without understanding.

The OP has no need for income of any sort in the next 11 years.

200k divided by 11 gives him a generous amount to live off (18k/year = 75,000bht/month).

No need for any investment risk at all (zero percent in a UK bank is good enough for me).

I have several friends living comfortably off less than 20kbht a month (that's 5,000UKP a year)

But they all keep their money in their home countries in banks, and transfer to their Thai banks once or twice a year.

OP hasn't specified pension details, but for all we know it's an index linked company pension paying 30KUKP a year.

Investment = risk

UK Bank = safe (to be precise 200k would need 3 UK banks to be safe as each bank will only guarantee 84K)

Why be greedy when you have no need?

Edited March 3, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[bluebluewater]

Place B800,000 in a long term time deposit account to cover the requirement for renewal of your extension of stay based on retirement (must still be in account 2months prior to renewal 1st year and 3months second year). Set up online banking with Bangkok Bank ,or whatever bank you choose, as your main bank. Place B1,000,000 in a mutual fund that pays daily interest and allows any sums to be cashed in on a daily basis. This will be your emergency/living fund. Keep B100,000 in your savings deposit account as a float coupled to an ATM card and linked on line. Top your savings deposit account up as required from your mutual fund account. Open a Stock Exchange Investment account with Maybank Kim Eng Brokers with say B7,000,000. Until you get to know what you are doing, invest in safe blue chip stocks that will increase in value over time, have a high dividend and plenty of liquidity. I invested B6,000,000 in 2010 and have made B22,000,000 over 4 years which is 360%. The stocks I invested in were mainly BTS, Advance, Intuch, which pay around 7-8%/annum (1 year Advance paid 17%). The value of the shares has also risen considerably. They also still have a long way to go the triggers being award of contracts for extension lines/new lines for BTS and decision on 4G Auction for Advance/Intuch.

Even an amateur can easily make 20%/annum safely. Plan to come out the stock exchange by 2019 as that is when the 11 year cycle of boom and bust will cause the World Stock Exchanges to drop. Then you buy again in 2020.

P.S. Steer clear of Expat Financial advisors too many scam artists and do it yourself.

Yes there is. Like this guy!

555

[Remi080]

Hi, well i do have some advice for you if your really insist on business in thailand, i would invest in green energy, can be solar or bio gas systems.

These concepts are sponsored by goverment as well, specialy now with ASEAN a wise investment.

Close friends of me foreinger and thai people did invest in solar farm industry, they sit on there butt all day counting money, i dont see any bad ideas.

Good luck anyway.