Netanyahu assails Iran deal, touts US-Israel ties

[losworld]

If Israel goes nuclear on Iran, the only playmate Israel has left is USA.

Who said anything - besides you - about Israel going nuclear?

Israel can take out Iran's nuclear weapons capability with conventional weapons, and most countries in the Middle East would be thankful. Israel has done it twice before with Iraq and Syria and although there was grumbling from other Arabs, they were all (not so )secretly grateful.

Of course Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (North Korea is the other one) still playing games pretending they have no nukes when sources estimate they have over 200 as well as nuclear armed subs parked off Iran. How about some transparency from Israel?

Edited March 8, 2015 by losworld

[phrodan]

The sanctions were doing a good job of destroying Iran's economy before Obama eased them and they would have had even more effect now as the price of oil has plunged. That is the only reason that Iran is at the table at all. Obama refuses to allow Congress to pass more and make Iran sign a deal with NO enrichment of uranium, like most countries in the world - never mind the country with the worst record of state sponsored terrorism. .

They were doing that good a job that the Iranians built a nuclear capability.

You have no way of knowing how much those sanctions delayed their program. That might be why they are not nuclear already.

I'm happy to accept that.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong, though.

And now that Russia has crossed the Rubicon again, maybe they'll take delight in ensuring that anything Iran needs is channelled through them.

Maybe the Republican party should just cut to the chase and declare war on everybody.

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

[chuckd]

"The collapse of the Shah was down to his own greed and corruption."

Mostly incorrect but off topic.

If anyone here knows off the top of his head, it would be you, I'd say, so what was the collapse due to?

Was it a resistance against Western influences? The Shah being seen as a US puppet? The US and British fingers in the oil pie, creaming most of the revenue? The British monopoly on tobacco?

I'd be interested to read your take.

I would be happy to discuss your baiting post on the appropriate thread.

That thread doesn't happen to be this particular one.

[chuckd]

Just for everybody's information...The Russians have had a presence in Iran for years.

In 1975 I met some of them building a steel plant in Kermanshah, near the Iraqi border.

Any new business connections between Iran and Russia wouldn't exactly be reinventing the wheel.

[Ulysses G.]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

[Asiantravel]

Congress is powerless to stop Iran getting nukes if they wanted.

Just the same way as they've been powerless up until now to prevent them gaining nuclear capability.

There's nothing they can do that will make a blind bit of difference, except war - again.

I just hope before anyone does anything they remember to factor in the words of Major General Zhang Zhaozhong “China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War “.

[BKKBobby]

Reread my previous post slowly.

I quoted your own words. Don't blame me, if you don't know what "going nuclear" means.

If Israel goes nuclear on Iran, the only playmate Israel has left is USA.

If. If. If. I said if Israel goes nuclear on Iran.

That 'if' will never happen.

I mentioned why it will never happen in that post.

Asperger?

Edited March 8, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Ulysses G.]

Asperger?

That could be reasonable excuse for bringing up something really foolish and then claiming that you did not really mean it.

[Chicog]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

I wouldn't call it an ally of the UK or the US.

It's a bloodsucking leech on both of them.

[BKKBobby]

Asperger?

That could be reasonable excuse for bringing up something really foolish and then claiming that you did not really mean it.

Theoretical action --> Theoretical effect --> Outcome non-acceptable -->

Wont pursue theoretical action

I dont want to take this further.

UG are right and correct, ok.

Edited March 8, 2015 by BKKBobby

[up-country_sinclair]

Thus, despite your repeated posts, it is not "a lot harder to get away with". The P5+1 negotiations move forward as if this campaign speech never happened.

Wrong as usual. The negotiations will move forward, but the cat is out of the bag as far as the Sunset clause and if Obama tries to commit to it now to it, that is when the trouble for him will start in earnest, The public is just now waking up to how they have been betrayed.

Obama is such a captive of his own illusions about Iran that he has been unable to be straight with the American people. In reporting belatedly on the November 2013 interim agreement, he boasted it had “halted” Iran’s nuclear program. In fact, major American concessions were traded for Iranian gestures of temporary restraint, concessions that will likely never be reversed. Instead of halting the Iranian program, the agreement froze only American actions. Iranian nuclear engineers continued their work to improve the efficiency of their centrifuges and to master the use of more effective centrifuges. No nuclear plant is being dismantled.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/03/06/obama-misleads-the-public-about-irans-nuclear-program

Why have the negotiations between the Obama administration and Iran become such a critical national security issue? Look at the record of betrayals of trust that have enabled Iran to operate 19,000 centrifuges and another 1,008 IR2M machines that can produce bomb-grade, fissionable material five times faster than the other centrifuges. Back in 2005, the West was saying to Iran “zero centrifuges.” Let me repeat: zero. Next we were talking of a compromise at 5,000 centrifuges. The negotiations from 2005 and 2013 can be summed up in one word: retreat. A series of capitulations have left Iran with “the right” to enrich uranium, so now it has thousands of kilograms of enriched uranium. That’s enough to produce a bomb, contrary to the Obama administration’s commitment to Congress that it would not allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/03/06/obama-misleads-the-public-about-irans-nuclear-program

There's two fundamental faults with your argument - and you will either see them/accept them, or you won't.

You seem to be overly delighted by the "revelation," that there is a sunset clause in this proposal. There was no way that Iran was going to sign up for a forever and a day deal. Your attitude no doubt, is that they should have been forced into agreeing a forever deal and well - that would have been the end of that negotiation, huh?

And then, the reality.

The US can't prevent Iran from building nukes.

You're right, of course.

There is no way that Iran would accept a forever and a day deal. So the "Israel Firsters" are ready to send the US military to war again. They have no qualms with sacrificing the lives of the US military for anything that Israel considers in its best interest.

In my opinion they're traitors to the United States and should be openly labeled as such.

[Rancid]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

Well here is the US Veterans Today reaction to the uninvited Netanyahu speech:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/06/send-in-the-clowns-bibis-all-done/

Seems some vet groups weren't all that impressed. Surprised more Americans aren't outraged he went outside protocol to deliver his war mongering that would be paid in your lives.

[Ulysses G.]

There is no way that Iran would accept a forever and a day deal.

Too bad. They are a rogue nation and the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. They will be treated like other countries when they start acting like other countries - civilized ones.

There are over thirty countries around the world that have nuclear power programs and less than a dozen have the capacity to enrich their own fuel. Iran is looking to develop nuclear weapons, not nuclear power.

[Ulysses G.]

Well here is the US Veterans Today reaction to the uninvited Netanyahu speech:

US Veterans Today has already been exposed as a hateful conspiracy theory website.

"Veterans Today" has claimed on numerous occasions that the whistleblowing website Wikileaks is a product of Israel's spy agency, Mossad, and that Wikileaks has a pro-Israel bias. This is utterly false, as a few minutes of research confirms.

http://screechingkettle.blogspot.com/2011/04/debunked-veterans-today.html

[up-country_sinclair]

There is no way that Iran would accept a forever and a day deal.

Too bad.

Too bad for whom?

Iran or the "Israel Firsters"?

Negotiations between the P5+1 and Iran are moving forward as if Netanyahu's campaign speech never happened, so here in reality, it's not too bad for Iran. Yeah, yeah, I know, "now the whole world knows"

The "Israel Firsters" on the other hand are apoplectic, and that's clearly evident by their posts on this thread. The don't have any recourse to the long overdue shift in American foreign policy, and that is exactly how it should be.

[Publicus]

It is pretty self explanatory really and I have already pointed out why numerous times with links. Most people did not know about the Sunset clause until Netanyahu spread the word. Once the public knows about such a stupid move, it is a lot harder to get away with.

The news from the nuclear talks with Iran was already troubling.

Then it got worse: News leaked of the "sunset clause." President Obama had accepted the Iranian demand that any restrictions on its nuclear program be time-limited. After which, the mullahs can crank up their nuclear program at will and produce as much enriched uranium as they want.

Sanctions lifted. Restrictions gone. Nuclear development legitimized.

http://www.scsun-news.com/silver_city-opinion/ci_27652341

Some people knew about the so-called sunset clause which is still in the initial talking stage among the P5+1 and Iran negotiators yet if you or I had got up in front of an internationally televised joint session of the Congress and said it then the whole country and wide world would then have found out also and henceforth known of it.

Ten years seems not to offend the P5+1 negotiators but it does predictably and boringly grate the hard line far right lead by the militant monomaniac Netyanhu.

Ten years is a long time and while some things, people, posters, don't ever change no matter what, others things and people do change to one extent or another. Gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em so let's all sit down at the table then.

[Publicus]

The sanctions were doing a good job of destroying Iran's economy before Obama eased them and they would have had even more effect now as the price of oil has plunged. That is the only reason that Iran is at the table at all. Obama refuses to allow Congress to pass more and make Iran sign a deal with NO enrichment of uranium, like most countries in the world - never mind the country with the worst record of state sponsored terrorism. .

Iran came to the negotiating table in 2012 only after the P5+1 got Iran, to include its central bank, expelled from the SWIFT electronic global banking system based in Belgium under EU laws which does $6 Trillion a day in financial transactions. Without access to SWIFT Iran has to use Russian banks and Chinese banks and transacts in large amounts of foreign exchange in the rubble ruble and the deflating yuan. They have to pay their accounts in foreign banks by camel caravan.

Iran desperately needs an agreement with the P5+1 and the universal consensus is that Congress, which is the only fly in the ointment, needs to chill because everyone else recognizes an agreement "is at hand" and should properly be completed, by June 30. Bibi's sleepless nights and slurry speech are his own doing and problem.

People who want to bust up the negotiations while carrying on about Iran being a notorious state sponsor of terrorism, which is the consensus, seem not to mind that crashing the negotiations will mean sending Iran back into the hands of its hardliners and the unrestricted and unlimited development of nuclear weapons. So sometimes it's just not clear whether I'm talking to an American hardliner or an Iranian one. Or a Likud one. I think the American hardliners use English but they also hate Obama too, so it can be hard to figure if you know what I mean.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Publicus

[JDGRUEN]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

Well here is the US Veterans Today reaction to the uninvited Netanyahu speech:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/06/send-in-the-clowns-bibis-all-done/

Seems some vet groups weren't all that impressed. Surprised more Americans aren't outraged he went outside protocol to deliver his war mongering that would be paid in your lives.

I'm a Vet and me my Vet friends would rather have Nethanyahu as President of the United States than obama.

[NeverSure]

Too bad for whom?

Iran or the "Israel Firsters"?

Negotiations between the P5+1 and Iran are moving forward as if Netanyahu's campaign speech never happened, so here in reality, it's not too bad for Iran. Yeah, yeah, I know, "now the whole world knows"

The "Israel Firsters" on the other hand are apoplectic, and that's clearly evident by their posts on this thread. The don't have any recourse to the long overdue shift in American foreign policy, and that is exactly how it should be.

No mention of the "Iran (and any other) terrorist sponsors Firsters" then, eh?

[chuckd]

Interestingly, I watched the speech and subsequent CNN coverage that followed.

Following the speech, CNN Reporter Dana Bash was interviewing Senator Dianne Feinstein.

Bash asked the Senator about the 10 year sunset clause. The Senator replied that 10 years was a very short time and she would much prefer to see a 15 to 20 year sunset clause.

I just found the CNN release of that interview and the Senator's remarks on her opinion about the 10 year sunset clause have been scrubbed out.

CNN has doctored the interview. Can't prove it, I just know what I saw and heard.

The doctored version of the interview follows:

[Publicus]

Congress is powerless to stop Iran getting nukes if they wanted.

Just the same way as they've been powerless up until now to prevent them gaining nuclear capability.

There's nothing they can do that will make a blind bit of difference, except war - again.

I just hope before anyone does anything they remember to factor in the words of Major General Zhang Zhaozhong “China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War “.

He's the same guy who said the massive and constant smog is Beijing's best defense against US Navy laser weapons now deployed in the Gulf and who said "America will run like a rabbit" in the face of the PLA Navy.

That was before he got retired into obscurity by Beijing after he blew up at Chuck Hegel during a regional military common understanding conference in Australia.

Xi Jinping has cleared out this guy and about 20 notorious warmonger generals and admirals left over from the helpless Hu Jintao regime.

Iran is not counting on Beijing for its national security, which is a central military and diplomatic point communicated to it during its negotiations with the P5+1. Iran just has no choice but to sign on the P5+1 bottom line and very soon.

China's Naval Chief Says Smog is Best Defence Against US Laser Weapons

He told Beijing Youth Daily: "I just stated a laser weapon's weakness. I don't support smog."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinas-naval-chief-says-smog-best-defence-against-us-laser-weapons-1437650

Edited March 8, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

Well here is the US Veterans Today reaction to the uninvited Netanyahu speech:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/06/send-in-the-clowns-bibis-all-done/

Seems some vet groups weren't all that impressed. Surprised more Americans aren't outraged he went outside protocol to deliver his war mongering that would be paid in your lives.

I'm a Vet and me my Vet friends would rather have Nethanyahu as President of the United States than obama.

We who are vets can and do differ....on many things.

I and for sure others absolutely reject the Netanyahu-Boehner ticket the country is being presented with. Next thing would be the 1st Armored and 3rd Infantry invading Palestine so its strictly no deal on the Likud-Republican party alliance. You first thx and the body of us will be right behind you Just remember to keep your head low and your arse lower.

And tell your vet friends btw I think they're impudent.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Publicus

[Seastallion]

"The collapse of the Shah was down to his own greed and corruption."

Mostly incorrect but off topic.

If anyone here knows off the top of his head, it would be you, I'd say, so what was the collapse due to?

Was it a resistance against Western influences? The Shah being seen as a US puppet? The US and British fingers in the oil pie, creaming most of the revenue? The British monopoly on tobacco?

I'd be interested to read your take.

I would be happy to discuss your baiting post on the appropriate thread.

That thread doesn't happen to be this particular one.

Not baiting at all. I really do think you'd be the one in the know; you were there.

My questioning suggestions are simply tentative guesses, as I don't know like you do.

It's pertinent to the topic because Iran's recent history has shaped the situation today. Understanding why the US-Iran relationship is what it is helps us understand why the US and Iran are each doing what they're doing.

[Ulysses G.]

There is no way that Iran would accept a forever and a day deal.

Too bad.

Too bad for whom?

Iran or the "Israel Firsters"?

The only actual "Israel Firsters" are citizens of Israel. It is a fake term made up by the same people who claim that there is no anti-Semitism or Jewish holocaust.

Iran firsters are a whole different story. Constantly making excuses and justifications for a rogue nation that leads the world in state-sponsored terrorism to develop nuclear weapons is sick indeed. It is common behavior by some on this forum.

[NativeSon360]

On a related note, the P5+1 negotiations moved forward as if this campaign speech never took place.

Netanyahu's ratings went way up with the American people and he has not even spoken to Congress yet. Now that it is becoming obvious that Obama intends to eventually allow Iran to develop nukes, Netanyahu has a lot of potent ammo for tonight to stop Obama from selling Western democracy out. .

Obama’s chilling Iran nuke lie

Reports that President Obama agrees Iran should be free to make a nuclear bomb in about 10 years put the lie to his repeated vow never to allow an Iranian nuke. The broken promise is the international twin to his domestic whopper that you “can keep your doctor.”

You can’t, but Iran can keep its enriched uranium, making this lie an even bigger bombshell. As in, bombs away.

http://nypost.com/2015/02/25/obamas-nuclear-vow-to-iran-a-potential-catrastrophe/

Netanyahu's ratings went way up with the American Jewish people. Netanyahu needs to obtain that level of off-shore support (for his re-election campaign), especially considering that his particular notion of Zionism has now become deeply scrutinized, even by his own Sabra constituency.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NativeSon360

[JDGRUEN]

"The collapse of the Shah was down to his own greed and corruption."

Mostly incorrect but off topic.

If anyone here knows off the top of his head, it would be you, I'd say, so what was the collapse due to?

Was it a resistance against Western influences? The Shah being seen as a US puppet? The US and British fingers in the oil pie, creaming most of the revenue? The British monopoly on tobacco?

I'd be interested to read your take.

I would be happy to discuss your baiting post on the appropriate thread.

That thread doesn't happen to be this particular one.

Not baiting at all. I really do think you'd be the one in the know; you were there.

My questioning suggestions are simply tentative guesses, as I don't know like you do.

It's pertinent to the topic because Iran's recent history has shaped the situation today. Understanding why the US-Iran relationship is what it is helps us understand why the US and Iran are each doing what they're doing.

What you propose to discuss would likely be deemed off topic for this thread however distantly relative it might be.

"Netanyahu assails Iran deal, touts US-Israel ties" is the OP ...and typically as you know the discussion is corraled rather strictly nto that theme. Up to you to get permission to expand the theme. Just my opinion...

[NativeSon360]

The hilarity is that the JDGRUEN constituent mentality didn't take that same position against the Bush Administration. Obama group did not blatantly lie to the entire world community; start a war that totally destroyed one of the world's most beautiful and ancient cities; pillaged and robbed it's citizens of their historical treasures; then arrogantly proselytized themselves as being "the good guys". Obama simply inherited "the Bush created mess", and is only the current (Oval Office) name, that politely accepts an ignorant, cry-baby, red-necked bigot's finger-pointing blame.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NativeSon360

[Ulysses G.]

Bush did not try to sign a deal that would give Iran nuclear weapons and Obama lied to the whole world about Obamacare. In fact, he earned himself Lie of The Year. You sure do cheery-pick what to get outraged about on a partisan basis.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

[phrodan]

I suppose they would need to ask Likud if it was okay first, now that they are joined at the hip.

Well, THERE is something that you are definitively wrong about. Israel is America's closest ally other than the UK and that includes both political parties. The Republicans and the Democrats - other than a few possible crybabies - will be happy to work with whoever wins the election.

Israel ain't in the top five of important US allies, and you'd struggle to make a place for the country in the top ten.

[NativeSon360]

Bush did not try to sign a deal that would give Iran nuclear weapons and Obama lied to the whole world about Obamacare. In fact, he earned himself Lie of The Year. You sure do cheery-pick what to get outraged about on a partisan basis.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

Oops! I keep forgettin that UlyssesG is absolutely "right".....about everything he posts,...on this forum. Have a nice person's day, everybody. Time for me to say "Ciao" to the forum sandbox, and get on with a progressive life, in the LS.