Coroner Declares Sisters Found Dead in Thailand Died of Pesticide

[Jacob Maslow]

A Canadian coroner released her findings of two dead women found in a Thailand hotel in 2012. Their death has been attributed to pesticide intoxication

In 2012, two sisters from Quebec, Canada were found dead in their hotel room in Thailand. A coroner’s report recently released states that the sisters died from a pesticide. Responsible for two other deaths in Canada, the coroner believes that the pesticide, phosphine, is to blame for the girls’ deaths.

The coroner concluded that both women exhibited the same symptoms seen in two children that died from intoxication in Alberta. The report goes on to say that phosphine is highly toxic.

Interestingly, phosphine was not found in either of the women’s blood or organs. It’s also against the law in Thailand to use phosphine in hotel rooms.

Autopsies in Thailand showed that neither women died because of violent causes. The initial autopsy also states that the two had been vomiting, which is another symptom of pesticide intoxication. The conclusion by Thai authorities states that DEET, an insect repellent, was to blame for the girls’ deaths.

Canadian reports disagree with the conclusion as DEET is not toxic or deadly when applied correctly to kill insects.

The Canadian coroner suggests that it’s possible the Thailand hotel used phosphine, but strong regulations against the pesticide’s use make it an unlikely circumstance.

Recently, one woman in the country brought back phosphine and placed it around her apartment to kill insects. Unknowingly, the woman’s children became ill and needed immediate medical attention. It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels.

There have been no immediate responses given by Thailand authorities as of yet. There is speculation that the hotel may be investigated to determine if they illegally fumigated the apartment with phosphine.

-- 2015-03-04

[NeilSA1]

What a shame. The death of 2 sisters. The grief of a family.

Possibly all due to irresponsible actions of someone using illegal poisons.

Hope investigations are undertaken and are successful.

[canuckamuck]

A couple of young girls brought Phosphine with them on a trip to Thailand? Why is that more likely than the hotel was using illegal pesticides? When has the legality of something been much of a barrier in Thailand?

[alfalfa19]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

[alfalfa19]

A couple of young girls brought Phosphine with them on a trip to Thailand? Why is that more likely than the hotel was using illegal pesticides? When has the legality of something been much of a barrier in Thailand?

Yes, it's the same old story. Even when caught out by real scientists, they still have to attempt a cover up.

[Don Mega]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

I must admit it is kinda weird the Canadian coroner came up with this story as it is defo a Thai style story.

[canuckamuck]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

I must admit it is kinda weird the Canadian coroner came up with this story as it is defo a Thai style story.

I don't think that part came from Coroner's office, it seems to be a projection from the writer.

Edited March 4, 2015 by canuckamuck

[WhizBang]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

Thainess.

As you know, Thais cannot accept responsability for anything. As in the Koh Tao statement "No Thai could do this."

[SOTIRIOS]

A couple of young girls brought Phosphine with them on a trip to Thailand? Why is that more likely than the hotel was using illegal pesticides? When has the legality of something been much of a barrier in Thailand?

...the coroner is being 'diplomatic'.....

[Briggsy]

This appears to be an anonymous summation of the report by the Canadian coroner with strange emphasis weighting and added conjecture to shift any criticism or responsibility away from the hotel and its owners and away from the Thai authorities.

Those familiar with Thailand will recognise this style.

[WilliamCave]

I would trust a coroner from Canada before any doctor from Thailand .

Gets me thinking how many die in Thailand and the truth is never know from these incompetent doctors , do they actually do the research or it's dream something up .

[realenglish1]

Its pretty clear that the hotel used the insecticide. Just sue the hotel that's it

[Thaddeus]

I would trust a coroner from Canada before any doctor from Thailand .

Gets me thinking how many die in Thailand and the truth is never know from these incompetent doctors , do they actually do the research or it's dream something up .

Making stuff up requires far less effort than actually doing any work, and as the culture demands that superiors are never questioned, they get away with it.

Even when it is pointed out from outside of Thailand that there is something wrong, within the country's boundaries they still get away with it.

[alfalfa19]

This appears to be an anonymous summation of the report by the Canadian coroner with strange emphasis weighting and added conjecture to shift any criticism or responsibility away from the hotel and its owners and away from the Thai authorities.

Those familiar with Thailand will recognise this style.

Yes, that's my take on it as well.

[NoBrainer]

Tragic story but the Thai coroners finding of poisoning by DEET may still be correct. Even though DEET is not supposed to be lethal if used properly, it has been

known to be mixed in to party drinks to cause some kind of high. It may be that DEET was ingested directly in small quantities, and these particular girls had a very adverse

reaction to it.

[Briggsy]

Its pretty clear that the hotel used the insecticide. Just sue the hotel that's it

Yes but wouldn't work in Thailand.

Koh Phi-Phi is a fiefdom. The owners of the hotel are protected and very rich and would get the full support of the local police and the Forensic Science Dept.

The court would take many years to reach a final decision and then claim the evidence was insufficient.

There would be a much better chance in the other deaths on Koh Phi-Phi of the Norwegian girl and the American girl since the owner is a family and less powerful. But the Canadian sisters died in a hotel and the owners are much richer. There is no chance there. The Downtown Inn is another case. More people died there and the police statements were disgraceful.

The best way forward is to name and shame Thailand specifically stating the substance, the suppliers, the hotels using it. This will change behaviour in the future but there will be no compensation or admission of guilt for previous deaths from Thai authorities, hotel owners or anyone involved in the supply of this very dangerous pesticide.

[Briggsy]

Tragic story but the Thai coroners finding of poisoning by DEET may still be correct. Even though DEET is not supposed to be lethal if used properly, it has been

known to be mixed in to party drinks to cause some kind of high. It may be that DEET was ingested directly in small quantities, and these particular girls had a very adverse

reaction to it.

I think we can assume you have not read the coroner's findings. They explicitly rule out DEET poisoning along with a detailed explanation. They had to do this as this was the erroneous finding (excuse / speculation / whitewash ) of the Thai Forensic Science Dept.

Please familiarise yourself with the Canadian coroner's findings before spreading incorrect conjecture.

[Johnny S]

True Thainess - more lies and coverup. 2 poor girls dead and even then the Family cant get the truth from LOScams. What does the Management have to say at Phi Phi Palm Residence .... ? Tourists should know that it can be risky business to stay at a Thai hotel

[masuk]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

Even more alarming is the Thai suggestion that the bug repellent DEET might have been responsible.

I think if this were the case, DEET based repellents would have been withdrawn around the world.

[recycled]

There is speculation that the hotel may be investigated to determine if they illegally fumigated the apartment with phosphine. Never going to happen, move on, next fairytale please.

[angiolo]

Two dead sisters and no chance of justice. Was this a suicide pact. 555

[wabothai]

A pesticide (bugspray or agric. pesticides) in the wrong hands can kill.

And it is freely available over the counter.

The labels on bottles or containers are quite clear and explicit about the use of the poison.

How many, using the stuff, are reading the labels? And that is if they are able to read them.

Are the maids well instructed by their managers?

In many average hotels there are not even managers. It usually is the senior receptionist.

Thailand is in urgent need of a hotelschool.

I will offer my services.

[Tomtomtom69]

Who wrote this garbage? Evidently they still can't admit to the truth: " It is possible that one of the two women found dead in Thailand brought the pesticide with them to Thailand or purchased it during their travels. " First it was ibuprofen in their room that killed them. Second theory, they were drinking bug killer to get high. Now, it's that they brought a deadly poison with them from Canada to Thailand, and used it to cause their own death. Even when real and legitimate science states what happened, they still have to make up fairy tales.

I must admit it is kinda weird the Canadian coroner came up with this story as it is defo a Thai style story.

I can't imagine any tourist, any westerner who would fly to Thailand from Canada or any other western country and either bring pesticide with them or purchase it on their travels, as if they couldn't get it possibly much more easily back home.

Even if they own large plantations back home, the thought of that is absurd in the extreme as their purpose to come to Thailand was almost certainly NOT related to pesticide usage, purchase or any combination thereof.

The only person who I know who has ever bought fungicide on an overseas trip (in this case from China) was a friend of mine who realized it was the wrong type and I had to transport it through Myanmar back into Thailand for him. As it's the wrong type I will have to return it to China the next time I go there so that the purchaser can obtain a refund. However, my friend actually owns a plantation in Vietnam so it makes sense as to why he would want to purchase fungicide, whereas these girls were just tourists.

Tourists that exhibit the same predictable behavior as all other tourists. That stay in the same kind of hotels, participate in the same kinds of activities. Purchasing pesticide is the most far-fetched and ridiculous theory I've ever heard.

[Briggsy]

This is not a normal pesticide. It is only usually available for use by licenced firms and even they may have difficulty obtaining it. Everything about this case points to unlicenced, dangerous pesticides being sourced on the black market and illegally used and then followed by a rush to let the rooms out before the necessary ventilation carried out and ventilation period had passed.

[maidee]

"It’s also against the law in Thailand to use phosphine in hotel rooms"

yes, it is illegal

i'm sure there are still farmers out here using DDT

[canuckamuck]

If Some Canadian girls had it in their mind to bring along some bug killer for the hotel. They would have simply purchased a can of Raid or similar household product. It defies plausibility that they would go through the trouble to locate and smuggle in a banned substance like phosphine. Odds are very high that they had never even heard of phosphine, or considered traveling with pesticide.

[Xircal]

A couple of young girls brought Phosphine with them on a trip to Thailand? Why is that more likely than the hotel was using illegal pesticides? When has the legality of something been much of a barrier in Thailand?

I agree with you. It's highly unlikely that the girls brought this substance with them considering its toxic properties: http://www.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/phosphin.html

Doesn't sound like something you can just pop into your local pharmacy and buy.

[Xircal]

Tragic story but the Thai coroners finding of poisoning by DEET may still be correct. Even though DEET is not supposed to be lethal if used properly, it has been

known to be mixed in to party drinks to cause some kind of high. It may be that DEET was ingested directly in small quantities, and these particular girls had a very adverse

reaction to it.

I think we can assume you have not read the coroner's findings. They explicitly rule out DEET poisoning along with a detailed explanation. They had to do this as this was the erroneous finding (excuse / speculation / whitewash ) of the Thai Forensic Science Dept.

Please familiarise yourself with the Canadian coroner's findings before spreading incorrect conjecture.

@ Briggsy,

I think you've misinterpreted Nobrainer's post. The coroner said that he didn't think DEET was to blame since when used correctly to kill insects, it's not considered to be toxic. Absolutely correct.

However, what the coroner failed to take into account was the use of DEET as an ingredient in Thai cocktails i.e. the type sold in buckets: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-sisters-died-in-thailand-from-drinking-deet-1.1153094

So in effect, the Thai authorities would be correct in their assumption that DEET poisoning was the cause as Nobrainer correctly pointed out.

[LuckyLew]

A couple of young girls brought Phosphine with them on a trip to Thailand? Why is that more likely than the hotel was using illegal pesticides? When has the legality of something been much of a barrier in Thailand?

Yes, it's the same old story. Even when caught out by real scientists, they still have to attempt a cover up.

Of course Thais have to blame someone else

Thais are never wrong

and it would be bad for Thailands image to admit anything

Just same old perfect Thailand

[sweatalot]

A pesticide (bugspray or agric. pesticides) in the wrong hands can kill.

And it is freely available over the counter.

The labels on bottles or containers are quite clear and explicit about the use of the poison.

How many, using the stuff, are reading the labels? And that is if they are able to read them.

Are the maids well instructed by their managers?

In many average hotels there are not even managers. It usually is the senior receptionist.

Thailand is in urgent need of a hotelschool.

I will offer my services.

"I will offer my services."

Good luck

Don't you know, they know everything and can do everything better than any farang?

They don't need you