tingtongtourist Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yes now ive read back, i vote southies theory is covered in faecies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know what kind of women you people are dating, but I'm getting married soon and the girl is putting 400k of her own money into my bank account for marriage "visa". I also don't have any monthly obligations whatsoever. Could it be that 20 year age difference at play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Hill Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know what kind of women you people are dating, but I'm getting married soon and the girl is putting 400k of her own money into my bank account for marriage "visa". I also don't have any monthly obligations whatsoever. Could it be that 20 year age difference at play? Hang on and I'll just see if we can rustle up an award. Maybe even a medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know what kind of women you people are dating, but I'm getting married soon and the girl is putting 400k of her own money into my bank account for marriage "visa". I also don't have any monthly obligations whatsoever. Could it be that 20 year age difference at play? What ,400k for a marriage visa'i take it this would be an application in your own country not Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know what kind of women you people are dating, but I'm getting married soon and the girl is putting 400k of her own money into my bank account for marriage "visa". I also don't have any monthly obligations whatsoever. Could it be that 20 year age difference at play? What ,400k for a marriage visa'i take it this would be an application in your own country not Thailand. lol.... no wonder people get shafted here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongtourist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't know what kind of women you people are dating, but I'm getting married soon and the girl is putting 400k of her own money into my bank account for marriage "visa". I also don't have any monthly obligations whatsoever. Could it be that 20 year age difference at play?What ,400k for a marriage visa'i take it this would be an application in your own country not Thailand. lol.... no wonder people get shafted here..... Yes and when the game gets hot some dont even know when they are getting shafted! I assume that the 400k you say your wife to be put up is for the 800k in the bank, needed for marriage? This is the very reason i am hesitant,even if marriage provides an easy visa. If there was some way if the wife not knowing about those funds sitting there, then ok. come back in a year or so and tell us where the 800k went. Me thinks another farang buying a house he can never own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't need to buy a house as I live free of charge in her own that is paid off. It is 400k as proof of funds not 800k. Because of bad exchange rate she is literally putting her own money in my name. Funny I am yet to get shafted by a Thai woman.... And I am neither young or hansum. Maybe it's the fact that the age difference is not 25 years....I dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Funny I am yet to get shafted by a Thai woman.... And I am neither young or hansum. Maybe it's the fact that the age difference is not 25 years....I dunno or maybe your into Thai males/LB's instead of ladies dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't need to buy a house as I live free of charge in her own that is paid off. It is 400k as proof of funds not 800k. Because of bad exchange rate she is literally putting her own money in my name. Funny I am yet to get shafted by a Thai woman.... And I am neither young or hansum. Maybe it's the fact that the age difference is not 25 years....I dunno You did not make this clear in your other post,that is was for the proof of funds part,i also do not understand your reaction to my previous post,or where you just being obnoxious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Nope. Well thankyou for answering my question,as usual after reading your posts,all is now 'clear as mud'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongtourist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Marco sure its clear. This guy doesnt know how we get into these bad situations with thai women.. Since he.. -Doesnt want to exchange his money to baht so gf puts up 400k of her own money so she can marry him. -presumably has limited funds & no job -lives in her house which she owns outright..for free -has never given her a satang or been asked for anything How clear can he be. he living with thai version of mother theresa Hahahaha Nope.Well thankyou for answering my question,as usual after reading your posts,all is now 'clear as mud'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Hill Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Methinks some people just can't deal with the fact that some guys land more squarely on their feet with the local women than others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Marco sure its clear. This guy doesnt know how we get into these bad situations with thai women.. Since he.. -Doesnt want to exchange his money to baht so gf puts up 400k of her own money so she can marry him. -presumably has limited funds & no job -lives in her house which she owns outright..for free -has never given her a satang or been asked for anything How clear can he be. he living with thai version of mother theresa Hahahaha Nope.Well thankyou for answering my question,as usual after reading your posts,all is now 'clear as mud'. You could be right,possibly he is horribly deformed or something,more likely though i suggest horribly deranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongtourist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Marco sure its clear. This guy doesnt know how we get into these bad situations with thai women.. Since he.. -Doesnt want to exchange his money to baht so gf puts up 400k of her own money so she can marry him. -presumably has limited funds & no job -lives in her house which she owns outright..for free -has never given her a satang or been asked for anything How clear can he be. he living with thai version of mother theresa Hahahaha Nope.Well thankyou for answering my question,as usual after reading your posts,all is now 'clear as mud'. You could be right,possibly he is horribly deformed or something,more likely though i suggest horribly deranged. Well i learned something today where "pua arai" meant 'for what benefit?' Or as we farang say "what do i get out of it?" One thing ive learnt about thais is they dont do anything that doesnt benefit them, if not monetary, then something else. Maybe this guyfromanotherplanet...ooops sorry..guyfromanotherforum He must be so perfectly & symmetrically beatiful blue eyes and blonde hair... so goes the old story..his wife certain that the look-kreung will be star in no.1 thai soap on tv and make them all rich :0) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Funny I am yet to get shafted by a Thai woman.... And I am neither young or hansum. Maybe it's the fact that the age difference is not 25 years....I dunnoor maybe your into Thai males/LB's instead of ladies dunno Why are people here so obsessed with the idea that everyone must be gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Funny I am yet to get shafted by a Thai woman.... And I am neither young or hansum. Maybe it's the fact that the age difference is not 25 years....I dunnoor maybe your into Thai males/LB's instead of ladies dunno Why are people here so obsessed with the idea that everyone must be gay? where is the obsession dear boy, in your head perhaps ?..... it was a flippant, off the cuff sarcastic remark, if one wants to be technical and besides according to JT if one has a thing for LB's one can't really be gay in the true sense of the word....so with that in mind part of the comment cant be an obsession with homosexuality unless someone is homophobic... so this begs the question SB are you homophobic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyHead Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 My GF gives me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerlou47 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 10 years ago I met a wonderful girl and we have a wonderful life together! Sometimes the people you meet are a reflection of yourself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Post removed 7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This place is hilarious. Yes the girl is putting 400k of her own money. Yes, I live rent free in her house....YES....SHE EVEN OFFERED TO PUT MONEY FOR SINSOD but I will politely refuse that because after 2 years living in her house the least I can do is scrape a bit of cash and respect her tradition. I am sorry if me not getting screwed financially sounds obnoxious to you but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellred Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Are there any thai women who don't request money or ask for her family to be supported? The op is quite discouraging and I would like to marry a thai girl some day so hope not all is lost. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipi Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have probably spent over (au)$500K on my wife and kids over the last 10 years. Actually more. Not a regret in the world, loved every second of it and will continue. Who else am I going to spend my money on if not my family? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have probably spent over (au)$500K on my wife and kids over the last 10 years. Actually more. Not a regret in the world, loved every second of it and will continue. Who else am I going to spend my money on if not my family? Your mom? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipi Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have probably spent over (au)$500K on my wife and kids over the last 10 years. Actually more. Not a regret in the world, loved every second of it and will continue. Who else am I going to spend my money on if not my family?Your mom?She's loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny202 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I been here 4 months with my Thai girl and I'm really starting to struggle. We lived together in Australia for a year and she missed her culture, food, etc....was never dazzled by the farang lifestyle so we made the choice to come live here. I was bored in Australia and bored with my job, had a little money in my home and super and figured I'd have enough to live a decent but frugal lifestyle here if I was careful. I explained to her 50 times it wouldnt be like we lived in Thailand on holidays nor would we have the same lifestyle as in Australia. She has a little home in the North East that I knew I would have to spend around 250k baht on to make liveable but that was ok. Something I read on Thai visa sometime ago was never put anything into Thailand you can't afford to leave in Thailand and to me this was an acceptable risk. Apart from a few times I helped the family out (and every cent was repaid) I've always made it clear I couldn't and wouldn't be supporting the family. Coming here to live would just make that doubly impossible. Although she still respects her mother and father, she has some quite horrible memories of her mother abandoning her, leaving her with her dad and her father well...you can imagine. So to this end as far as she's concerned they can take care of themselves. She's never been a money grubber or wanted possessions etc. Shes not the evil bar girl type you read about here. I've told her I will never register marry with her and apart from what I spent on the house there will be no pot at the end of the rainbow. I have something in place to take care of her should I die which she is aware of. She cant possibly support herself and live here alone and is unable to sell the house so her motivation for coming here wasnt financial gain. I give her an allowance of around 30k baht a month to take care of food gas...everything really. We are really well set up and our only debt or outgoings are electricity and water. I initially came here for 3 weeks and just adored the place. We're a couple of km out of the main moo ban so we heave people next door but we're not living on top of each other. Everything negative I read about living in Isaan seemed to be exaggerated or not true in my case. I was pleasantly surprised by everything. My girl as most Thais seem to be isn't really a forward thinker so I went over the negatives with here of living here. We're 50km out from the city so not easy to duck in and go to a restaurant etc of a night time. What would we do in the day time, would we get bored? I was pretty sure I would be ok with all tis stuff but I wanted her to consider everything. No she said, she was born here, has friends family etc here. Everything would be perfect. I don't need English speaking friends, I help or probably do more around the house than she does and most of the time I cook. My whole day seems consumed with her happiness re wake up wonder what activity or outing we can do today, can she eat what I cook, will she understand a movie etc. I just don't seem to see any of that coming back? I mean I would be happy to give 80% and get back 20? It is impossible for me to 100% describe the situation or for you the reader to understand so please don't make too many harsh judgements based on your perceptions. She isn't all bad of course and Im not always a picnic but for the most part I believe Im happy and outgoing and super considerate of her feelings, comfort etc. Probably too much so. Im too controlling sometimes I know, but by god any time I have let her make any sort of decision, particularly a major one it backfires horrendously. I have seen more blatant acts of stupidity and near suicide particularly on the roads than I have ever seen in my life. Anyway things seem to be going off the rails and I'm out of ideas. I'm far from perfect but in my mind I have done everything humanly possible to make things work. I genuinely like the people here and have made every effort to fit in and not act like I'm anyone special. My girl seems absolutely in capable of trying to understand or care how I feel or what I want. In fact I can't even talk to her for more than 10 secs without her exploding, raising her voice, becoming irrational. She constantly claims she knows how I feel or what I am thinking and she is never even close to being right. I'm a pretty simple straightforward guy and if she would listen for even a minute maybe she would get the gist of what I was on about. But it never gets that far, I only have to open my lips and her head forms assumptions and opinions of what is wrong with me. I don't argue back with her anymore and that seems to make things even worse. She seems to have no gauge for balance or middle ground. I'm not aloud to go anywhere or do anything by myself because "have too many bad lady Thailand". If I speak to a woman in a shop just ask a question about a product or something its on. Jealousy like I have never experienced. However she seems to have a need to go and sit with friends for a large portion of the day and expects me to sit home alone and amuse myself. One day she will be telling me if I not like up to me go. The next she will be asking me if I still love her and pleading me not to go, It's all just madness. There's no debating logically either...like....how come you can go and do what you want when I am paying for everything, doing so much and I have to sit here alone. Anytime we argue she "knows I want other lady", have plan to leave her etc. I mean I live in Bttfk nowhere, never go out or want to go out alone. I ask her to have a look around to what I have done to her house, the money I spent. Would I do that if I wasn't genuine about living with you forever? No, I did all that for my own comfort apparently. Logic or reason doesn't come into any "discussion" and she just keeps firing off stuff that just isn't true.....or complaining about stuff she is actually doing to me. Just like an irrational kid trying to win a fight. Unfortunately much of the stuff that comes out of her mouth cant be easily forgotten or not taken seriously. Before the things she said would live in my head for days and I'd want to go back over what she said and clarify what she meant. She'd simply say "she only say for win fight". It just goes in one ear and out the other now. The amazing thing is I don't fight back...and thats not my normal. If I don't fight back she sits there and fights with herself until she whips herself into a mega frenzy then the fireworks start. She's seems to like sharing her problems with the neighbours too which I detest. In fact out of the 15 or so Thai ladies I know here they all without exception claim they "boooer" their husbands and want to quit them. In many cases I wouldn't blame them but there are some really good guys, work their farms all day 12 hours. Their wives don't make them breakfast, are out all day bad mouthing them, in some cases on the drink. Don't take care of the kids and they don't even manage to come home and make dinner for hubby or the kids. They eventually wander home, hubby says bad with them and that gives them the perfect excuse to go out again. My mate in Australia has a Thai wife, they have kids etc. He's gone the whole hog bought mum and dad a home in the north, pays at least 15k baht a month to support basically the whole family plus subsidises failed businesses and failed farm activities. Provided a pick up and motor bike. He's a nice guy too and all the woman does is complain to my wife she want quit him. Its like a cutlure of biting the hand that feeds you. My missus can't seem to amuse herself for any length of time apart from sit on facebook. I almost feel guilty if I want to go in the other room and play guitar or something. She actually told me yesterday she booer. She feels like she wants to go out all the time but its my fault because Im a tight ass and make her feel like we cant spend money. To put things in to perspective, when I first got here I took her to Phuket for 10 days. All she did was complain she wanted to go back home. She isn't a shopper and any time we go to the super mall or Big C she trails behind with a long face. I actually encourage her to buy something for herself. Probably stems back to the last time we went out she needed some bras. No probs. She went into a shop and I went out for a smoke. I comes back and she has 5 bras. Still no dramas. I say how much....Blank stare. What had happened she went in, the woman had befriended her with sales bullsht and was her new best friend and it cost me 5000 baht. She didn't even check the price? Now ok, she doesn't spend a lot on herself...but I know damn sure if it was money she worked for she would be at least asking the price. This instance in itself is harmless and not a lot of money I know. I wasn't harsh with her, didn't do much more than give her "a look" actually but if you don't pull it up it contiinues. To be fair I had just spent 30k baht that morning on a TV and home theatre she wanted. Why are Thai women so considerate and ameniable to their "sisters" yet treat the ones who really care about them like dirt? Having said that there seems to be a culture her of backstabbing each other too. Like one day the missus will be complaining bitterly about (rightly) something the woman across the road has done. Go and befriend someone else and tell her about it (she was knifing her in the back the day before), but go and all eat som tum together the next day? The missus put around 400 small fingerlings in a big clay jar to raise them. Cost us a few bob. Anyway we went away for a week and the people across the road where supposed to take care of them. We comes back and all bar about 10 are gone. This is after we had them some months and they were quite big and some value. Anyway, surprise surprise the people across the road somehow got a tank and all these fish while we were away. Someone even told my missus she saw them taking them. What did she do? "not want make proprem" hahaha. They stole off her and she still considers them friends. We even beefed up our security at home because she told me she doesn't trust them. I just don't get any of it. Other thing I am experiencing is people coming out of the woodwork trying to sell us stuff, but coming in the guise of a friend. It just makes me sick. Someone will turn up on the door step, usually dinner time. And doesn't matter that your in the middle of preparing dinner. How are you, nice to see you etc....then the products come out. My missus seems compelled to buy off them whether she just doesn't want to offend them or its a loss of face or looks like your a tight a$$ if you don't buy. We of course see straight through that and wont have a bar of it. As a matter of fact everything here seems to be underlined by money....one way or another. I have what they would call big money now, but I have to live here without working for at least the next 20 years and if I think like a Thai and throw it all away and help everyone that wants me to give them money I will be in the poor house next year. If I see a sick kid or someone needs help with school etc I will be the first one there but a new air conditioned office for teachers "to work on presentations for mothers day" etc. Had a bloke front around the other day. Gave me a flyer he wanted me to send all my farang friends collecting money for the said teachers "creativiity" building. Of course I am farang so I have unlimited amounts of cash to throw away and so do anyone I know in Australia. I explained to the guy people in Australia just wont respond to something like that. It's for the benefit of the teachers not the kids. That of course could be debated but that was my thought. Im invited to a dinner in a few weeks as guest of honour and thats lovely etc but I know its a trap to elicit money. Last thing I went to the only english word the guy could use was "sponsor sponsor". I told myself I would never become hardened and think everyone that approached me here was after money but jesus its hard. I was so close to going yesterday I started packing up my stuff. She started getting physical telling me to stop so I left it but the idea is firmly in my head now. I really don't want to go I have invested so much time, work and some money into her its hard to let go. We went through the long distance relationship thing for a year which was awful, then her big dream came true she came to Australia. She didn't like it. I forgave her for a lot of stuff thinking her dream was to come and live here together and everything would be ok. It just doesn't seem to be working out that way. In a way now I think she's sorry she didn't stay in Australia. The biggest amazement for me apart from the obvious annoyances is how much I like it here. I thought that would be the issue whether I could hack it but the only issue I have is her and her behavior and total lack of thought for me. I guess she's been spoilt a bit living in Australia, travelled a bit and maybe living here in the country just isn't the same. I'm not even sure she knows what she wants. Its like everything she wants, she gets then she wants something else. Its all such a shame. Any advice or encouragement much appreciated. Im really starting to think I would be happier living on my own. Its just all doing my head in Edited March 10, 2015 by Kenny202 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longstebe Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Wow. You know what you need to do. 250k is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Kenny202: Thanks for sharing your "why-oh-why" story. encouragement? Difficult having read all you wrote... she obviously seems to have some kind of life-style in her mind that you can not provide or have not found out yet... advice? As you wrote... cut your losses and move on, where ever it will take you, but leave that woman behind you, since she is taking YOU down with her. all the best for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny202 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Kenny202: Thanks for sharing your "why-oh-why" story. encouragement? Difficult having read all you wrote... she obviously seems to have some kind of life-style in her mind that you can not provide or have not found out yet... advice? As you wrote... cut your losses and move on, where ever it will take you, but leave that woman behind you, since she is taking YOU down with her. all the best for you I do really feel that no matter what I do she will never be happy. She just doesn't seem capable of looking at everything, taking the good with the bad and to quote another poster it really is starting not to feel like an adult / adult relationship. She just informed me its too hot for her to live, there's problems with the local water etc. This is after renovating her house. When I say I spent 250THB I mean solely on her house. To relocate here, buy a pick up, motorbike etc more like 2mill THB. At least the bike and car are in my name. I would have to say she is the laziest person I have ever met. Generally lazy around the house and lacking in guile and motivation but the biggest aspect of her laziness is her total inability to think anything through. Its just all too much for her. Have migraine think too mutt. Like we talked about travelling by train to Nong Kai. To be honest not really in the mood for it just yet. Would rather settle down a bit after doing so much her but ok. Can you call the station or look on the internet see if there is a timetable etc. No luck, too hard. She spent longer explaining to me why it was a waste of time rather than it would to call. This is a person who walked 2 km, caught a bus 20km to catch another bus, only to find out when she got there there was no "other" bus that day. "Why didn't you check?" It was buddhas fault apparently, she not lucky that day. Just installed a pump, tanks etc. Got some rain and they are half full. Town water off indefinitely. She immediately threw out about 100L of water that was in a plastic container in the toilet for flushing it on the dirt and refilled it with the tank water. This was after me explaining to her we needed to be careful. "Why you treat me like kid order everything". But darling, the water we had was only for flushing the toilet. Voice goes up, fight ensues and Im the biggest ar$hole in the world. I live with someone that not only creates problems, but perpetuates them....and she will be the first to complain when we run out of water...my fault need tank more big. It really is that damnable crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Kenny202: Thanks for sharing your "why-oh-why" story. encouragement? Difficult having read all you wrote... she obviously seems to have some kind of life-style in her mind that you can not provide or have not found out yet... advice? As you wrote... cut your losses and move on, where ever it will take you, but leave that woman behind you, since she is taking YOU down with her. all the best for you I do really feel that no matter what I do she will never be happy. She just doesn't seem capable of looking at everything, taking the good with the bad and to quote another poster it really is starting not to feel like an adult / adult relationship. She just informed me its too hot for her to live, there's problems with the local water etc. This is after renovating her house. When I say I spent 250THB I mean solely on her house. To relocate here, buy a pick up, motorbike etc more like 2mill THB. At least the bike and car are in my name. I would have to say she is the laziest person I have ever met. Generally lazy around the house and lacking in guile and motivation but the biggest aspect of her laziness is her total inability to think anything through. Its just all too much for her. Have migraine think too mutt. Like we talked about travelling by train to Nong Kai. To be honest not really in the mood for it just yet. Would rather settle down a bit after doing so much her but ok. Can you call the station or look on the internet see if there is a timetable etc. No luck, too hard. She spent longer explaining to me why it was a waste of time rather than it would to call. This is a person who walked 2 km, caught a bus 20km to catch another bus, only to find out when she got there there was no "other" bus that day. "Why didn't you check?" It was buddhas fault apparently, she not lucky that day. Just installed a pump, tanks etc. Got some rain and they are half full. Town water off indefinitely. She immediately threw out about 100L of water that was in a plastic container in the toilet for flushing it on the dirt and refilled it with the tank water. This was after me explaining to her we needed to be careful. "Why you treat me like kid order everything". But darling, the water we had was only for flushing the toilet. Voice goes up, fight ensues and Im the biggest ar$hole in the world. I live with someone that not only creates problems, but perpetuates them....and she will be the first to complain when we run out of water...my fault need tank more big. It really is that damnable crazy! Well, Kenny202... your options obviously get clearer and clearer... next time she goes out... load your bike on the truck, throw your clothes on it, take what you need to take and move... drive till your tank is empty and then start to find yourself a new place to settle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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