workers, be hard or not

[tropo]

There is nothing lower than a well-taken care of employee, who steals and damages their employer's property. You can't reason with these types.

I'd fire them all, and start over.

EDIT: And why not hire all females?

It probably won't be easy, but starting over with a new team could be the only good solution. If you keep some of the old staff they will train the new staff to keep the circus going.

When contemplating special treatment of staff, consider this proverb:

no good deed goes unpunished

1. Beneficial actions often go unappreciated or are met with outright hostility. If they are appreciated, they often lead to additional requests.

§ and:

eaten bread is soon forgotten

[tropo]

2 phrases that spring to mind.

'' Never bite the hand that feeds you ''

'' Never sh!t on your own doorstep ''

Time for you to start making people homeless. No '' Ifs '' no '' buts '' Get rid.

They're not biting the hand that feeds them, they're cutting it off.

Edited March 8, 2015 by tropo

[Soutpeel]

As the Thai's say " choke the chicken and make the monkey watch".

must be something in the translation you missed...

Masturbate in the presence of a monkey ? ....how is that going to solve the OP's problem of fuel theft ?...

[benalibina]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

I also think she should fire a couple at least as we are sure of who the ring leader is. Yes they are taking the p*ss, I am aware of this and trying to change the way my wife looks at it. I have given her suggestions so that the theft is in black and white, also how to set up surveillance so that cameras cannot be touched(inside buildings), the lack of respect for a female boss is the big one to get over, the other bit is trying to find honest workers. Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently, she just wants to be able to show proof of what they are doing so the police can step in and arrest the ones responsible, can be very touchy here

Reading this comment.......be careful OP......if your wife is good at her job, tell her to seek employement elsewhere before it could get nasty.....

[seajae]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

I also think she should fire a couple at least as we are sure of who the ring leader is. Yes they are taking the p*ss, I am aware of this and trying to change the way my wife looks at it. I have given her suggestions so that the theft is in black and white, also how to set up surveillance so that cameras cannot be touched(inside buildings), the lack of respect for a female boss is the big one to get over, the other bit is trying to find honest workers. Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently, she just wants to be able to show proof of what they are doing so the police can step in and arrest the ones responsible, can be very touchy here

Reading this comment.......be careful OP......if your wife is good at her job, tell her to seek employement elsewhere before it could get nasty.....

I have discussed it with her but she is loyal to the owner, he accepted her application for manager 17 years ago when very few women were being given this sort of work/responsibility. She will retire in another few years as well so she also doesnt want to have to start again somewhere.

Edited March 8, 2015 by seajae

[weegee]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

No. Ran my own businesses since 1975, retired early. Had 20 Thai staff. They think cheating and stealing is their birthright, just part of doing business.... It's in their DNA.

You won't stop them..just try to keep the thefts to a minimum.

All drivers steal fuel. There are roadside stations that buy it. Trucks lined up to sell their fuel at these police owned stations.

Your senior man on the job runs the graft. They are always up to something. In fact, they lose face if they do a good job & don't steal.

this is pretty spot on really in describing what happens, unfortunately theft is rife due to the low wages mainly, this is why the company built the houses for them, for some reason stealing is considered part of the job by many workers but this is getting beyond that. I am trying to get my wife to do similar things we do in Australia with daily log sheets to show the hours/mileage of the vehicles daily and the amount of fuel, oil, filters etc as they are done so that the averages can be in black and white. This will show exactly who is stealing what but it isnt the thai way of doing business but she is prepared to try it. She is sure she knows the leader but she says she needs proof it is him before she fires him, it can be hard to change the way thais do things but this is true with many people

Seajae...tell them at meeting ...because of the theft of fuel, you have decided to LOWER Salary to compensate for it...

The total wages bill will be reduced by the amount of loss from stolen fuel...

If they leave, stiff...but you are not paying for losses of fuel , parts etc etc....THEY ARE!!!!

Sorts them out pretty quick.

[steven100]

I think I'd organize a weekly monday morning meeting out in the yard with everybody present.

Go through the motions of telling them how good there work has been ... bla bla bla ...

Then step onto the next topic of company theft ....

explain that fuel has gone missing and it will not be tolerated if found to be worker related...

Also explain that manipulating cameras, cutting connections or doing damage to any camera is an offence and will carry the same punishment ...

explain that it will be instant dismissal ... and a police report will be followed.

Stress this every monday with different topics , suggestions ect ...... but bring up the theft issue every time to remind them how serious it is.

And , if you do catch someone out .... instant dismissal .

I think try that for a few weeks and see what happens .... make sure all the cameras are working if possible ... maybe you need a camera on the camera ....

stealing, sabotage and not accepting the boss decision isn't something that can be repaired with some talk together.....

disagree ... we are in Thailand ... not Russia or China or UK ....

As i'm sure you are aware things are different here and problems should be treated differently as such ...

Ok ... if you think , as some have mentioned just go and fire them all ... get out !! bla .. bla .. bla ..

What a stupid idea ... you know what might happen in a week , a month , a year ??? the boss may end up in the Chayaprayo river heaven forbid ..... This is Thailand !! not a western country .... how do you think someone will react if you fire them and stop there lifeblood for feeding the family ??? they will go out and get drunk and react !!

Just my opinion & you have yours which makes up a democracy .... good )

People just don't know how thai people think ... and that can cause all sorts of problems ... imo.

[HeijoshinCool]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

I also think she should fire a couple at least as we are sure of who the ring leader is. Yes they are taking the p*ss, I am aware of this and trying to change the way my wife looks at it. I have given her suggestions so that the theft is in black and white, also how to set up surveillance so that cameras cannot be touched(inside buildings), the lack of respect for a female boss is the big one to get over, the other bit is trying to find honest workers. Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently, she just wants to be able to show proof of what they are doing so the police can step in and arrest the ones responsible, can be very touchy here

.

Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently,

Okay, this post changes everything.

You and your wife are embroiled in a dangerous situation, and personal safety comes first. Plan and act accordingly.

[Keesters]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

I also think she should fire a couple at least as we are sure of who the ring leader is. Yes they are taking the p*ss, I am aware of this and trying to change the way my wife looks at it. I have given her suggestions so that the theft is in black and white, also how to set up surveillance so that cameras cannot be touched(inside buildings), the lack of respect for a female boss is the big one to get over, the other bit is trying to find honest workers. Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently, she just wants to be able to show proof of what they are doing so the police can step in and arrest the ones responsible, can be very touchy here

.

Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently,

Okay, this post changes everything.

You and your wife are embroiled in a dangerous situation, and personal safety comes first. Plan and act accordingly.

Perhaps shut down for a month giving existing staff reasonable payoffs. Make some excuse for closing. E.g. Bankrupt, remodelling, moving to new location. Start again with new staff with tough rules, cameras, protection against fuel theft etc.

This should fit in with Thainess, avoiding confrontation, saving face etc.

[joesanunu]

Be prepared for retaliation. Years ago, the Sanyo TV factory was burnt down by bitter employees.

They went to work the next morning.....ooops..no factory... O well ..pass the som tum...

[jcisco]

Install some proper cameras, ie: Place the camera on 8M Pole with the lines running down the inside of the pole through an steel conduit inside a piece of 1/2 inch pipe to the recording unit, and put it on a 3000VA UPS. And the camera on UPS incase that was not obvious, use a decent day night or illuminated night camera .

The pole is going to provide a significant obstacle and if the way the trucks are parked at night ensures you have full observation and no one can access them without being seem problem solved. Install motion sensor lighting on the private residences and log to your PVR when it comes on via tapping the relay line. That way at least your going to know which residence can correlate to which night. Use decent camera and a decent quality recorder.

[Soutpeel]

Install some proper cameras, ie: Place the camera on 8M Pole with the lines running down the inside of the pole through an steel conduit inside a piece of 1/2 inch pipe to the recording unit, and put it on a 3000VA UPS. And the camera on UPS incase that was not obvious, use a decent day night or illuminated night camera .

The pole is going to provide a significant obstacle and if the way the trucks are parked at night ensures you have full observation and no one can access them without being seem problem solved. Install motion sensor lighting on the private residences and log to your PVR when it comes on via tapping the relay line. That way at least your going to know which residence can correlate to which night. Use decent camera and a decent quality recorder.

Maybe a job for Ethan Hunt then ?

[seajae]

the last cameras were high up on top of the electricity poles and were still damaged, she is at work today and I will find out more tonight, I showed her all the comments in here so she could see what others think as well as her own ideas, all I can do now is wait for her decision.

Thanks to everyone that has commented, I really appreciate it as it has made her see things in a new light. Sometimes reading other people ideas/experiences can make a big difference to the way you think.

[Keesters]

the last cameras were high up on top of the electricity poles and were still damaged, she is at work today and I will find out more tonight, I showed her all the comments in here so she could see what others think as well as her own ideas, all I can do now is wait for her decision.

Thanks to everyone that has commented, I really appreciate it as it has made her see things in a new light. Sometimes reading other people ideas/experiences can make a big difference to the way you think.

Let us know what happens. Best wishes.

[fey]

they dont respect you as a man or employer. hide in wait to be sure and fire them one by one until the theiving stops.

let it go and people will be lining up for fuel or thefts will occur in other areas.

a nicer wsy to go would be to offer bonus once in awhile and see if the thefts stop if you can gain respect. let it be known what the bonus is for (reduced fuel consumption)..

hiring an outside security guard would be another option. if fuel grts taken you replace just the guard until you find an honest one.

Edited March 9, 2015 by fey

[weegee]

they dont respect you as a man or employer. hide in wait to be sure and fire them one by one until the theiving stops.

let it go and people will be lining up for fuel or thefts will occur in other areas.

a nicer wsy to go would be to offer bonus once in awhile and see if the thefts stop if you can gain respect. let it be known what the bonus is for (reduced fuel consumption)..

hiring an outside security guard would be another option. if fuel grts taken you replace just the guard until you find an honest one.

IF it's getting taken at the YARD!...one way is for them to gradually take it out during the day and put it behind the seat of the truck in containers...then delivered for sale on the last load for the day. Seajae, have you looked around for an added fuel tank on the trucks somewhere where it is inconspicuous?.

The easiest answer to all the if's and where's....I would bet the fuel has never entered the tank in the first place...Do you personally top up the trucks, or is it done at a garage?...If so, It's just a cash adjustment, and the garage onsells the fuel again and again....You beat them one way, and they will find another way within hours.....

[joesanunu]

they dont respect you as a man or employer. hide in wait to be sure and fire them one by one until the theiving stops.

let it go and people will be lining up for fuel or thefts will occur in other areas.

a nicer wsy to go would be to offer bonus once in awhile and see if the thefts stop if you can gain respect. let it be known what the bonus is for (reduced fuel consumption)..

hiring an outside security guard would be another option. if fuel grts taken you replace just the guard until you find an honest one.

IF it's getting taken at the YARD!...one way is for them to gradually take it out during the day and put it behind the seat of the truck in containers...then delivered for sale on the last load for the day. Seajae, have you looked around for an added fuel tank on the trucks somewhere where it is inconspicuous?.

The easiest answer to all the if's and where's....I would bet the fuel has never entered the tank in the first place...Do you personally top up the trucks, or is it done at a garage?...If so, It's just a cash adjustment, and the garage onsells the fuel again and again....You beat them one way, and they will find another way within hours.....

Thats right.

They steal fuel by not even loading it, colluding with the guy at the filling station.

[Keesters]

they dont respect you as a man or employer. hide in wait to be sure and fire them one by one until the theiving stops.

let it go and people will be lining up for fuel or thefts will occur in other areas.

a nicer wsy to go would be to offer bonus once in awhile and see if the thefts stop if you can gain respect. let it be known what the bonus is for (reduced fuel consumption)..

hiring an outside security guard would be another option. if fuel grts taken you replace just the guard until you find an honest one.

IF it's getting taken at the YARD!...one way is for them to gradually take it out during the day and put it behind the seat of the truck in containers...then delivered for sale on the last load for the day. Seajae, have you looked around for an added fuel tank on the trucks somewhere where it is inconspicuous?.

The easiest answer to all the if's and where's....I would bet the fuel has never entered the tank in the first place...Do you personally top up the trucks, or is it done at a garage?...If so, It's just a cash adjustment, and the garage onsells the fuel again and again....You beat them one way, and they will find another way within hours.....

Thats right.

They steal fuel by not even loading it, colluding with the guy at the filling station.

If this is true then no amount of CTV will catch them. Some sort of bonus scheme for fuel savings could be introduced. Trouble is you'd have to offer more bonus than the cost of the fuel they are ripping off. A no win scenario. Tricky.

[jcisco]

Perhaps go radical and move to NGV.

And regarding damaging the camera's up the poles, it would take a firearm to damage a camera up that high. Did the damage actually penetrate the housing? Or this sort of camera thats you just put outside with no housing,. these aren't the type you probably need. Very difficult if you have internal forces actively undermining your security deployments, frustrating and can be costly.

Best of luck

[joesanunu]

Secretly gather the evidence and have the police show up, march them away.

[h90]

I think I'd organize a weekly monday morning meeting out in the yard with everybody present.

Go through the motions of telling them how good there work has been ... bla bla bla ...

Then step onto the next topic of company theft ....

explain that fuel has gone missing and it will not be tolerated if found to be worker related...

Also explain that manipulating cameras, cutting connections or doing damage to any camera is an offence and will carry the same punishment ...

explain that it will be instant dismissal ... and a police report will be followed.

Stress this every monday with different topics , suggestions ect ...... but bring up the theft issue every time to remind them how serious it is.

And , if you do catch someone out .... instant dismissal .

I think try that for a few weeks and see what happens .... make sure all the cameras are working if possible ... maybe you need a camera on the camera ....

stealing, sabotage and not accepting the boss decision isn't something that can be repaired with some talk together.....

disagree ... we are in Thailand ... not Russia or China or UK ....

As i'm sure you are aware things are different here and problems should be treated differently as such ...

Ok ... if you think , as some have mentioned just go and fire them all ... get out !! bla .. bla .. bla ..

What a stupid idea ... you know what might happen in a week , a month , a year ??? the boss may end up in the Chayaprayo river heaven forbid ..... This is Thailand !! not a western country .... how do you think someone will react if you fire them and stop there lifeblood for feeding the family ??? they will go out and get drunk and react !!

Just my opinion & you have yours which makes up a democracy .... good )

People just don't know how thai people think ... and that can cause all sorts of problems ... imo.

If you are a coward, better take a safe job as teacher.....We fired enough people and so far no one killed us. While it might happen somewhere in the past, usually the average Thai person isn't a murder. Actually I guess less than in Russia or China.

[seajae]

Update, wife called them all together yesterday and issued an ultimatum, she has informed them that if this happens again everyone that now lives on site with their wives/families will have to move and no one will be allowed to stay there, she also informed them that she has discussed what is happening with the police and that they will investigate it if anything else happens, anyone found to be involved will be fired. Now we wait and see if this works.

Fuel pump is onsite and run by a different owner, wife or her assistant(very honest guy) has to unlock the tanks, it is also in the open so it is visible to all. Because the trucks tanks are now being locked(sleeve placed over the opening with a lock, were just pad locked originally) they are probably milking the fuel by disconnecting the fuel line and siphoning it out that way, again would have to be done overnight when no one is around as it would take a while making the ones on site the likely culprits.

Edited March 10, 2015 by seajae

[Keesters]

Hope things start changing for the better.

[h90]

sure things will improve for 1-2 weeks.

[steven100]

I think I'd organize a weekly monday morning meeting out in the yard with everybody present.

Go through the motions of telling them how good there work has been ... bla bla bla ...

Then step onto the next topic of company theft ....

explain that fuel has gone missing and it will not be tolerated if found to be worker related...

Also explain that manipulating cameras, cutting connections or doing damage to any camera is an offence and will carry the same punishment ...

explain that it will be instant dismissal ... and a police report will be followed.

Stress this every monday with different topics , suggestions ect ...... but bring up the theft issue every time to remind them how serious it is.

And , if you do catch someone out .... instant dismissal .

I think try that for a few weeks and see what happens .... make sure all the cameras are working if possible ... maybe you need a camera on the camera ....

stealing, sabotage and not accepting the boss decision isn't something that can be repaired with some talk together.....

disagree ... we are in Thailand ... not Russia or China or UK ....

As i'm sure you are aware things are different here and problems should be treated differently as such ...

Ok ... if you think , as some have mentioned just go and fire them all ... get out !! bla .. bla .. bla ..

What a stupid idea ... you know what might happen in a week , a month , a year ??? the boss may end up in the Chayaprayo river heaven forbid ..... This is Thailand !! not a western country .... how do you think someone will react if you fire them and stop there lifeblood for feeding the family ??? they will go out and get drunk and react !!

Just my opinion & you have yours which makes up a democracy .... good )

People just don't know how thai people think ... and that can cause all sorts of problems ... imo.

If you are a coward, better take a safe job as teacher.....We fired enough people and so far no one killed us. While it might happen somewhere in the past, usually the average Thai person isn't a murder. Actually I guess less than in Russia or China.

lol ... absolutely nothing to do with being a coward .... more like using common sense ! ..

seems she's taking the talk approach ... oh wait !! that's not the way you do it.

Lets see if the issue is resolved.

[Keesters]

sure things will improve for 1-2 weeks.

Maybe longer if the manager keeps up the pressure. Hope its not going to be like one of those RTP crackdowns. A flash in the pan. Forgotten a week later. Business as usual.

[seajae]

wife is pretty riled up with what they have done and is also making contigency plans if it continues, never seen her this p*ssed at the workers before. There is no way she is going to relent and already chasing new workers.

[Keesters]

wife is pretty riled up with what they have done and is also making contigency plans if it continues, never seen her this p*ssed at the workers before. There is no way she is going to relent and already chasing new workers.

At 'em girl. Well done.

[kannot]

wife is pretty riled up with what they have done and is also making contigency plans if it continues, never seen her this p*ssed at the workers before. There is no way she is going to relent and already chasing new workers.

get her to find me 2 while shes at it, the last 2 years I have gone through 5 sets most leave with NO notice longest lasted 6 months although the last two did more in 6 weeks than the 6 months of the other two.

[Keesters]

wife is pretty riled up with what they have done and is also making contigency plans if it continues, never seen her this p*ssed at the workers before. There is no way she is going to relent and already chasing new workers.

get her to find me 2 while shes at it, the last 2 years I have gone through 5 sets most leave with NO notice longest lasted 6 months although the last two did more in 6 weeks than the 6 months of the other two.

And you lost the good ones?