US: GOP tries to undercut nuclear deal with warning to Iran

[Chicog]

They haven't agreed to anything yet.

[Steely Dan]

" President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. "

Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd)

It's not news, it's a fanciful blog by a couple of Israelis masquerading as a news site. Sort of like a small, Israeli Fox.

Shamis communication LTD

53/3 Bar Cochba

Jerusalem, Is 97892

Israel

The Israeli delegation to France was confirmed a day ago in the Guardian, which should put it firmly on your leftist flat earther radar. What the Guardian failed to mention was that France already has the most problems with the Iranian deal, due to their extensive dealings with the Saudis, as well as their own proximity to Iran. This article from a German newspaper also cites French resistance to the deal, the first comment in the comments section observed, now the U.S state department will accuse Israel of controlling France. I'm sure this accusation will indeed be used by some of our esteemed members should the deal fall through.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/03/21/report-france-taking-toughest-line-in-iran-nuclear-talks/

So, before I click your link, is this another dubious "news" source that writes stories before they happen?

The article merely observes the French are taking the toughest line in the negotiations, something that can be gleaned from sundry sources. Incidentally the last link I posted, which you scoffed about was confirmed by the Guardian two days later. Anyway wake me up when you finally have something substantive to say.

[phrodan]

So how about the reports that Israel spied on the US negotiators - used the information gathered from spying, and delivered it to the GOP to undermine the US governments position.

How embarrassing for the GOP to be the recipient of spied material, and to use it against their own President. I've seen it said that it was expected that Israel would spy - not expected the GOP would fall for it.

I jest you not - this could soon grow wings and become a new Watergate fiasco for the Republican's.

Idiots -

And anyone that supports a foreign state spying on their own government is a traitor free and clear.

No argument about it.

[chuckd]

So how about the reports that Israel spied on the US negotiators - used the information gathered from spying, and delivered it to the GOP to undermine the US governments position.

How embarrassing for the GOP to be the recipient of spied material, and to use it against their own President. I've seen it said that it was expected that Israel would spy - not expected the GOP would fall for it.

I jest you not - this could soon grow wings and become a new Watergate fiasco for the Republican's.

Idiots -

And anyone that supports a foreign state spying on their own government is a traitor free and clear.

No argument about it.

How about a link to those "reports' you mention?

[phrodan]

So how about the reports that Israel spied on the US negotiators - used the information gathered from spying, and delivered it to the GOP to undermine the US governments position.

How embarrassing for the GOP to be the recipient of spied material, and to use it against their own President. I've seen it said that it was expected that Israel would spy - not expected the GOP would fall for it.

I jest you not - this could soon grow wings and become a new Watergate fiasco for the Republican's.

Idiots -

And anyone that supports a foreign state spying on their own government is a traitor free and clear.

No argument about it.

How about a link to those "reports' you mention?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/israel-spied-on-us-over-iran-nuclear-talks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32030071

You're not a stupid man, Chuckd - you know the implications of this.

If it turns out to be true, it's as serious as a heart attack.

Edited March 25, 2015 by phrodan

[chuckd]

Thank you for the links. I just didn't know which ones you were commenting on.

As serious as a heart attack? Hardly.

This is just Obama and his henchmen adding gasoline to the fire. They are intent on signing something (anything) with Iran in order to get some sort of foreign policy achievement. They are getting desperate to have some success in the foreign policy arena and, if it takes throwing the only free enterprise, self governing democracy in the Middle east under the bus, this administration will do it...and hang the consequences.

Let's examine your links a bit.

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From the WSJ article...

1. "The White House discovered the operation, in fact, when U.S. intelligence agencies spying on Israel intercepted communications among Israeli officials that carried details the U.S. believed could have come only from access to the confidential talks, officials briefed on the matter said."

In other words, the US found out about the alleged spying on them by spying on the Israelis..

2. "Americans shouldn’t be surprised, said a person familiar with the Israeli practice, since U.S. intelligence agencies helped the Israelis build a system to listen in on high-level Iranian communications."

Translation...The US built the system for Israel to spy on the Iranians which was very likely used to obtain some information.

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From the Guardian article...

1. "“I read that story this morning, and frankly, I was a bit shocked, because there’s no information revealed to me whatsoever,” Boehner, a Republican from Ohio, told reporters at a press briefing. “I was shocked by the fact that there were reports in this press article that information was being passed on from the Israelis to members of Congress. I’m not aware of that at all. I’m baffled by it.”

Other lawmakers also pleaded ignorance when asked about the allegations, which marked the latest front in the escalating row between Netanyahu and Barack Obama. Members of both parties insisted they are regularly briefed on the Iran negotiations by the administration – and no one else.

2. “No one from Israel’s ever briefed me about the agreement,” the South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, told reporters. “If they’re spying, they’re not telling me about it.”

The key part is that members of both parties insisted no one, other than the administration, is briefing them.

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Now to add a few more posers...

1. How does this administration know Israeli Intelligence (Mossad) did not obtain their information from someone affiliated with the French, German, Russian or Chinese delegation?

The leak could be anywhere.

2. The US provided Israel with the means to eavesdrop on Iran. Perhaps they did exactly that to obtain the information. Perhaps Mossad even has an inside source within the Iranian delegation that is feeding them information.

The leak could be anywhere.

3. What proof is there that the information was leaked to the GOP? Who exactly was the beneficiary of the information and how did it affect the administration in their negotiations?

Now I wasn't in on any of the conversations PM Netanyahu had with the Congresspersons, but neither was the Obama administration.

4. Finally to your "heart attack" position. I would merely remind you the Obama administration was caught with their hands in the cookie jar when it was discovered they had been spying on all the EU dignitaries.

That was a proven fact, unlike the current spy scandal, which is all based on speculation and conjecture on the part of the administration. The NSA spying on Merkel, et al, has now blown over, as will this one as soon as the MSM gets tired of it.

At this point he administration is running around like Chicken Little, screaming "the sky is falling". Everybody should just take a deep breath and calm down.

[Chicog]

At this point he administration is running around like Chicken Little, screaming "the sky is falling". Everybody should just take a deep breath and calm down.

How absurd, Chuck. At this point 47 Republicans, Fox News and a whole load of right wing web sites are running around screaming "the sky is falling".

The administration is simply asking for time to seal a deal.

If they can't, then alternatives are required.

If they can, then you can criticise it.

Meanwhile, in reality the topic remains Republican/Netanyahu smoke and mirrors.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually it is a veto-proof, bipartisan majority of House lawmakers warning Obama that any nuclear deal with Iran will effectively require congressional approval for implementation - 367 of them. Try to keep up please.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

Our current administration seems to think the Iranian leadership can be trusted to do as they promise.

They really need to wake up and smell the roses.

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Iran isn’t providing needed access or information, nuclear watchdog says

By Steven Mufson March 24 at 2:23 PM

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency said that Iran has failed to provide the information or access needed to allay the agency’s concerns about the weapons potential of the country’s nuclear program.

With the deadline nearing for international talks on constraining Iran’s nuclear program, Yukiya Amano, director general of the IAEA, said in an interview that Iran has replied to just one of a dozen queries about “possible military dimensions” of past nuclear activities.

Amano said that Iran has provided only “very limited” information about two other issues, while the rest have not been addressed at all.

Entire article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/un-nuclear-watchdog-iran-not-providing-needed-information-access/2015/03/24/6557b24a-d23d-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

No one anywhere in any capital of the world trusts Iran.

Beirut does not trust Iran. Damascus does not trust Iran. Riyadh does not trust Iran. The GCC capitals do not trust Iran.

Beijing does not trust Iran. Moscow does not trust Iran. Washington does not trust Iran. Paris does not trust Iran. Berlin does not trust Iran. London does not trust Iran.

Kabul does not trust Iran. Islamabad does not trust Iran.

PM me to get the complete list of the 202 capitals of the world that do not trust Iran.

If interested and able to face reality, that is.

[Chicog]

Actually it is a veto-proof, bipartisan majority of House lawmakers warning Obama that any nuclear deal with Iran will effectively require congressional approval for implementation - 367 of them. Try to keep up please.

This word "effectively" in this context means the same as "not".

[Ulysses G.]

In your imaginary dictionary anyway.

[Publicus]

Actually it is a veto-proof, bipartisan majority of House lawmakers warning Obama that any nuclear deal with Iran will effectively require congressional approval for implementation - 367 of them. Try to keep up please.

All congress can do is to prevent the prez from relieving sanctions approved by Congress. That is it.

Congress can pass anything it likes in respect of a foreign policy Executive Agreement by the prez. Nothing changes it. The congress maximus has no authority over a foreign Executive Agreement by the president and foreign governments, to include in this instance the P5+1 and Iran.

EU and UN sanctions are of course not within the authority of the congress maximus, so those particular sanctions can and would be adjusted according to any agreement between the P5+1 and Iran.

All congress can do in respect of the president's foreign policy EA is to demand the president submit the EA to the congress for 'review,' i.e., for hearings. That is all.

Nothing in the Constitution or in SCOTUS case law precedent however says the prez must submit the EA to the circus maximus congress. Congress can read about the EA in the Federal Register and hold its own, yet other congressional circus show hearings which eventually will close as all circuses do, to then move on.

If a deal is reached by the P5+1 and Iran, signed by president in his Executive Agreement, then it is a deal. Period. Congress has to suck wind. Then blow hot air. Period.

Veto proof sounds like more spirits distilled by the congress maximus.

Youse guyz need now to fire away because youse guyz need to establish what the congress maximus is supposed to be overriding. Congress has no authority over a president's foreign policy executive agreement. None. The congress controls the status of the sanctions legislation, which does extend to a president, but not to the president's foreign policy executive agreement.

If there is an agreement, the president's EA will stand no matter what. All the congress can do is to read it. Then to conduct a five ring circus maximus of hearings. Period. No changes to the president's foreign policy EA are possible under the Constitution or the SCOTUS case law precedents.

And the prez btw, can change executive branch regulations that implement the sanctions. Imagine, to paraphrase a recent presidential hopeful and a perpetual poster besides, if all the rules and regulations the executive has developed relative to the sanctions regime were, shall we say, no longer enforced by the executive. Or if their enforcement were to be suspended by the executive. Imagine. Just imagine!

I think its obvious at this point youse guyz need to scramble back to your right wing media sources yet again to yet again grab some more vacuous headlines and make believe sensational stories. So be sure to get back to us on these central points. Asap.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The one thing the congress maximus can do and will do is to pass a resolution, which needs only a majority vote in each house, requiring reports of the prez concerning Iran's implementation of an agreement if an agreement is concluded.

The current draft of the resolution will require 90 day reports from the prez on Iran's compliance with the an agreement, based on the fact Congress is vested in the agreement due to its imposition of sanctions against Iran.

There would be a few minor other things the congress maximus could require of the prez, by means of a joint resolution, but nothing whatsoever than would affect one word or comma in the president's foreign policy executive agreement as a part of the P5+1 and Iran negotiations.

[chuckd]

...and all of the Prez' decisions would be non-binding on successor Presidents.

It could all be nullified on 20 January 2017.

[Publicus]

...and all of the Prez' decisions would be non-binding on successor Presidents.

It could all be nullified on 20 January 2017.

That's then and it is more unlikely than likely.

We're dealing in the now, the present, and this bogus hype of a supposed veto proof majority is all congress maximus hot air cause there will be nothing for Congress to veto or to reject of the president's foreign policy Executive Agreement. The congress maximus has no say over the EA whatsoever....none....zero....ziltch.....oogats.

The oblivious think and believe the congress maximus will have something to override. They could grow even older waiting cause there is nothing for the 367 members of congress maximus to override....and the 367 know it..

Now you know it too.

And the last word one-liner trivia post from the right is.....

Edited March 25, 2015 by Publicus

[up-country_sinclair]

It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties

" President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. "

Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd)

[sdanielmcev]

Actually it is a veto-proof, bipartisan majority of House lawmakers warning Obama that any nuclear deal with Iran will effectively require congressional approval for implementation - 367 of them. Try to keep up please.

Why would they keep up? They're living in a fantasy world.

[up-country_sinclair]

Actually it is a veto-proof, bipartisan majority of House lawmakers warning Obama that any nuclear deal with Iran will effectively require congressional approval for implementation - 367 of them. Try to keep up please.

You really need to get better educated on how the US Federal government functions.

Or do you have "Breaking News" to report that there are 67 Senators who have publicly committed to overriding the Presidential Veto? If so, list the 67 senators here who have declared publicly that they will override the presidential veto.

[phrodan]

Thank you for the links. I just didn't know which ones you were commenting on.

As serious as a heart attack? Hardly.

This is just Obama and his henchmen adding gasoline to the fire. They are intent on signing something (anything) with Iran in order to get some sort of foreign policy achievement. They are getting desperate to have some success in the foreign policy arena and, if it takes throwing the only free enterprise, self governing democracy in the Middle east under the bus, this administration will do it...and hang the consequences.

Let's examine your links a bit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the WSJ article...

1. "The White House discovered the operation, in fact, when U.S. intelligence agencies spying on Israel intercepted communications among Israeli officials that carried details the U.S. believed could have come only from access to the confidential talks, officials briefed on the matter said."

In other words, the US found out about the alleged spying on them by spying on the Israelis..

2. "Americans shouldn’t be surprised, said a person familiar with the Israeli practice, since U.S. intelligence agencies helped the Israelis build a system to listen in on high-level Iranian communications."

Translation...The US built the system for Israel to spy on the Iranians which was very likely used to obtain some information.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the Guardian article...

1. "“I read that story this morning, and frankly, I was a bit shocked, because there’s no information revealed to me whatsoever,” Boehner, a Republican from Ohio, told reporters at a press briefing. “I was shocked by the fact that there were reports in this press article that information was being passed on from the Israelis to members of Congress. I’m not aware of that at all. I’m baffled by it.”

Other lawmakers also pleaded ignorance when asked about the allegations, which marked the latest front in the escalating row between Netanyahu and Barack Obama. Members of both parties insisted they are regularly briefed on the Iran negotiations by the administration – and no one else.

2. “No one from Israel’s ever briefed me about the agreement,” the South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, told reporters. “If they’re spying, they’re not telling me about it.”

The key part is that members of both parties insisted no one, other than the administration, is briefing them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to add a few more posers...

1. How does this administration know Israeli Intelligence (Mossad) did not obtain their information from someone affiliated with the French, German, Russian or Chinese delegation?

The leak could be anywhere.

2. The US provided Israel with the means to eavesdrop on Iran. Perhaps they did exactly that to obtain the information. Perhaps Mossad even has an inside source within the Iranian delegation that is feeding them information.

The leak could be anywhere.

3. What proof is there that the information was leaked to the GOP? Who exactly was the beneficiary of the information and how did it affect the administration in their negotiations?

Now I wasn't in on any of the conversations PM Netanyahu had with the Congresspersons, but neither was the Obama administration.

4. Finally to your "heart attack" position. I would merely remind you the Obama administration was caught with their hands in the cookie jar when it was discovered they had been spying on all the EU dignitaries.

That was a proven fact, unlike the current spy scandal, which is all based on speculation and conjecture on the part of the administration. The NSA spying on Merkel, et al, has now blown over, as will this one as soon as the MSM gets tired of it.

At this point he administration is running around like Chicken Little, screaming "the sky is falling". Everybody should just take a deep breath and calm down.

I fear you are deluding yourself.

It takes a very special and narrow rationale to justify a foreign government spying on your gov, then releasing the info to the opposition party.

Wake up, please.

[up-country_sinclair]

It takes a very special and narrow rationale to justify a foreign government spying on your gov, then releasing the info to the opposition party.

With the direct intent of sabotaging US policy.

And this is why "Israel Firsters" could justifiably be labeled as treasonous. They are a fifth column operating within the US, and they need to be rooted out and forced to choose their allegiance: It's either Israel or the US. If you love Israel so much that you are indifferent to US military casualties and the waste of untold billions of dolalrs on a war that only Israel wants, then surrender your US passport and get out.

[chuckd]

Any of you Islamic firsters care to tell us exactly how many US servicemen or women have lost their lives in defense of Israel?

How many have been killed in any or all of the wars Israel has had to fight in defense of their nation?

All these nonsensical allegations that the US is being led down the primrose path to a war with ??? are going nowhere.

Israel doesn't need the US to fight their wars. They can handle things very well by themselves, as they have proven since gaining Statehood.

What they don't need is being thrown under the bus because the President has had his feelings hurt.

[Ulysses G.]

And this is why "Israel Firsters" could justifiably be labeled as treasonous.

If anyone but anti-Semitic conspiracy nuts believed in such a thing, but would the Zionist Occupied Government - ZOG - be willing to try them in a court of law? It might blow their cover

[Chicog]

Any of you Islamic firsters care to tell us exactly how many US servicemen or women have lost their lives in defense of Israel?

How many have been killed in any or all of the wars Israel has had to fight in defense of their nation?

All these nonsensical allegations that the US is being led down the primrose path to a war with ??? are going nowhere.

Israel doesn't need the US to fight their wars. They can handle things very well by themselves, as they have proven since gaining Statehood.

What they don't need is being thrown under the bus because the President has had his feelings hurt.

Well if you think the 241 Americans who died in Beirut in 1983 were there just to help out Lebanon, then I've learned something astonishing about you today.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Chicog

[phrodan]

Any of you Islamic firsters care to tell us exactly how many US servicemen or women have lost their lives in defense of Israel?

How many have been killed in any or all of the wars Israel has had to fight in defense of their nation?

All these nonsensical allegations that the US is being led down the primrose path to a war with ??? are going nowhere.

Israel doesn't need the US to fight their wars. They can handle things very well by themselves, as they have proven since gaining Statehood.

What they don't need is being thrown under the bus because the President has had his feelings hurt.

Well if you think the 241 Americans who died in Beirut in 1983 were there just to help out Lebanon, then I've learned something astonishing about you today.

I keep going back to the word "deluded."

Israel knows it can't defeat Hezbollah - they beat a retreat in 2006 as Hezbollah shocked them with their response to the invasion. Only the blind cannot see that. Or the deluded.

The same deluded that cheer when Israeli spies provide material to the GOP - working directly against the USA government. I bet ya a fair few Republicans that sent that letter near on vomited when the spying allegation came up.

They're not looking so clever now, huh?

[Ulysses G.]

Israel knows it can't defeat Hezbollah

Amazing that Hezbollah does not just march in and take over the country then. It must be Christian charity that stops them.

[up-country_sinclair]

All of the recent reporting indicates the negotiations are moving forward quickly and could end with an agreement between the P5+1 and Iran this weekend.

If so, well done.

[Ulysses G.]

Just wait until Obama tries to stop the sanctions without Congress.

[Publicus]

<

How on earth can anyone trust Obama and his leftist minions to make a deal with Iran, after the deal they made for the Army deserter Bowe Bergdahl? Obama takes incompetence to a whole new level.

Bergdahl needs justice applied to him under the Uniform Code of Military Justice in the United States, not by a foreign government in a foreign land.

Not at the expanse of trading four major terrorist leaders for a deserter. Obama also violated the rule against negotiating with terrorists, because he could not have gotten them out of Gitmo any other way. As usual, everything he does is for his own political gain.

The right media has falsehoods each and every day to misrepresent Prez Obama.

There are so many rightwing media tall tales about Prez Obama so much of the time about so much of everything, it is necessarily ignored, dismissed, discounted. Half of my posts are exposing the right wing media and their knowing falsehoods, their distortions, falsifications, fabrications, deceits.....their Obama blah blah blah political spam.

[Publicus]

All of the recent reporting indicates the negotiations are moving forward quickly and could end with an agreement between the P5+1 and Iran this weekend.

If so, well done.

An early tipoff of an agreement being reached would be if the other P5+1 foreign ministers fly out of each respective capital to converge in Switzerland. Keeping my eyes peeled......

For something that would look like this.....

Members of the P5+1 and Iran celebrated after agreeing on the Joint Plan of Action at United Nations Headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland on November 24, 2013.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Scott
Oversized pictures

[up-country_sinclair]

Just wait until Obama tries to stop the sanctions without Congress.

You do realize that you have what is undoubtedly the worst record on this forum for predictions related to politics and policy? Actually now that I think about it, you're clearly not aware of that because you keep making incredibly wrong predictions.

By the way, where's your list of the 67 US Senators publicly declaring they will override the veto? You've been asked to supply this list repeatedly, but for some reason you just haven't. Why is that?