Beyond Today

[Heng]

It's all relative. Some Thais plan, some don't. I think you'll find that in most societies, you'll find that the non-planners outnumber the planners. Nothing out of the ordinary about that.

I'd say at our house, planning is a tradition; for example, my wife and I already have our unborn children's post-secondary and graduate education arranged (which probably means they'll choose to be pro golfers or rappers)... barring a worldwide financial meltdown of course.

[tuky]

My wife is a non planner. Drives me crazy sometimes, especially when I want to make an overseas phone call only to find she hasn't paid the bill.

[Chopper]

I once put a holiday chart up in the office and then kicked off the procedure by marking in the two weeks I was planning to take off at Christmas.

I had just taken over the department (it was May).

My Thai staff where incredulous “How” they asked “Do you know you are going to have holiday at Christmas?”

“Because, I always have holiday at Christmas” was my reply.

This completely stalled their thinking.

I was to get to butt of this later.

Staff would regularly not turn up, no excuse, no phone calls no nothing. They’d turn up a week later and hand me a holiday form for the week they had just taken.

When I asked them where they had been, the responded ‘Oh it was my mother’s birthday so I took holiday to visit her – I always take holiday for my mother’s birthday!’.

All departments had the same problem, it was raised as a problem in cross cultural training but no improvements resulted.

Then we changed office managers, the new manager issued an edict that anyone who took holiday without an approved holiday form would not be paid – Approval shall be according to existing procedure and two weeks notice is required.

This was ignored ONCE.

The first guy to bunk off without prior notice after the warning was not paid – He sulked, he threatened legal action, he went to speak to the labor office. He came back to the office, collected his things and left without telling us where he was going.

But – We never had another problem with failure to notify holiday or sickness.

GH. That is exactly how it should be. As an aside and slightly off topic when I was working if someone rang up sick they were immediately called back at home to verify that they were indeed there.

[Donz]

I once put a holiday chart up in the office and then kicked off the procedure by marking in the two weeks I was planning to take off at Christmas.

I had just taken over the department (it was May).

My Thai staff where incredulous “How” they asked “Do you know you are going to have holiday at Christmas?”

“Because, I always have holiday at Christmas” was my reply.

This completely stalled their thinking.

I was to get to butt of this later.

Staff would regularly not turn up, no excuse, no phone calls no nothing. They’d turn up a week later and hand me a holiday form for the week they had just taken.

When I asked them where they had been, the responded ‘Oh it was my mother’s birthday so I took holiday to visit her – I always take holiday for my mother’s birthday!’.

All departments had the same problem, it was raised as a problem in cross cultural training but no improvements resulted.

Then we changed office managers, the new manager issued an edict that anyone who took holiday without an approved holiday form would not be paid – Approval shall be according to existing procedure and two weeks notice is required.

This was ignored ONCE.

The first guy to bunk off without prior notice after the warning was not paid – He sulked, he threatened legal action, he went to speak to the labor office. He came back to the office, collected his things and left without telling us where he was going.

But – We never had another problem with failure to notify holiday or sickness.

GH. That is exactly how it should be. As an aside and slightly off topic when I was working if someone rang up sick they were immediately called back at home to verify that they were indeed there.

I would of sacked them the first time they pulled something like that

[Thaddeus]

It's all relative. Some Thais plan, some don't. I think you'll find that in most societies, you'll find that the non-planners outnumber the planners. Nothing out of the ordinary about that.

I'd say at our house, planning is a tradition; for example, my wife and I already have our unborn children's post-secondary and graduate education arranged (which probably means they'll choose to be pro golfers or rappers)... barring a worldwide financial meltdown of course.

It is even more relative than that. People that do plan don't plan everything.

My wife is Thai (but that should make no difference).... she buys food daily, for a couple of reasons, it's fresher that way and secondly, we don't have a 'fish on Friday' schedule.

But she did get some new soil laid and flattened on the land that we aren't going to build on until the rainy season is over.

Plan what you need to plan..... for the rest, take it as it comes.

(P.S. overpaying bills is a bit silly)

(P.P.S. decimals are whole numbers too Brit, it's the bit that comes after the point that is a fraction of a decimal ..... one two three four five six seven eight nine ten.... coming, ready or not ...... point oh one point oh two point oh three point oh four ..... yawn )

[higgy88]

While driving to my in-laws house, I noticed an electric pole that looked like it had been smacked pretty good by a rather large vehicle and was leaning at a pretty precarious angle. I made the comment to my wife, "I think the electric company should come out and fix that pole", to which my wife replied "Why, it hasn't fallen down?" It fell down during a storm and the whole village did not have any electricity for a couple of days while the electric company finally came to fix it.

[a2396]

Planning ahead is not a Thai trait. Why should they? Everything grows here; fertile soil; tropical temperatures all year round. The old Thai motto "As long as there is fish in the sea and rice in the fields" still holds. They've never had to plan ahead. European history is war; disease; long brutal Winters; famine; crop rotation; etc. We had to plan ahead to survive. Period.

History shapes culture, and apart from a few minor scuffles with neighbouring Burma; Thailand has had it really good. Its also the reason why immigrant poor Chinese of the last century dominate this region through business; politics; trade; science; etc.

One of my Chinese-descent engineers at work said that if it wasn't for them; "Thais would still be pointing at the moon!"

The "old motto," found on the rather controversial Ramkhamhaeng stone, noted fish in the water. We know there is no longer many fish in the sea around Thailand, and there are also less fish in the waters, especially the smaller streams. At least there is rice in the land although much of the land is no longer owned by rice farmers, often having been sold out for short term profit and long term expense.

I agree that amongst the rural folks that planning for the future is not a strong point. There simply would have been little point in planning for an unknown when living for self-sufficiency. Also, until a little over a century ago, many of the people were slaves, or near slaves with a very low Sakdina rating. Thailand was not a monetary society and taxes were most often paid in kind or by corvee labor. The use of money, and related concepts such as credit and loans were foreign concepts. Is it any wonder that the Chinese were able to dominate the society? Once the society became monetized, even the government hired the Chinese to be the local "tax farmer". Eventually the Chinese took over the government too.

Your engineer is very typical. The Thais, on the surface, seem to have assimilated the Chinese, but the Chinese have never fully reciprocated.

Reciprocated What?? It seem to me they have contributed significantly to the economic & technological well being of the country. Are you suggesting they "dumb themselves down" to match the lowest common denominator or social tinking here? I hope not.

[IMA_FARANG]

My husband and I were discussing this the other day. He feels that many Thai people are like this, have a very hard time with long-term planning or projecting into the future. The govt is a very good example of this behavior with their unwillingness to do any environmental impact reports for major construction and then shocked when there is problems. The new airport scanner issue sriracha john has reported (ie the scanners they have bought aren't enough to do the job) is another classic example.

Some Thais are capable of longterm planning(and it doesn't seem to be an education issue), many, it seems, are not.

I have just the opposite problem with my Thai wife of 40 plus years. She is the one who always buys things we don't need more of because the item is "on sale" when she goes to the market. So we end up having stores of stuff we might use sometime, but don't use very often. At least we got it at a bargain price.

As for not being good at long-term planning, it isn't only Thais that aren't good at that. Once I worked for a company that had a Bangkok office. I used the office a couple of times while I was in BKK for business trips. The office manager, an American, had a lot of years with the company. He was in BKK running the office, and about to retire in BKK. It didn't take me long to realise that he was hopeless in long term planning. I learned to go to his that secretary to get things done and to be sure that someting that needed to happen next week would be taken care of. She always managed to get things done on time. She probably got less than half her bosses salary, but she did all the work. If I had the authority ( I didn't) I would have reversed the roles.

[bannork]

It's all relative. Some Thais plan, some don't. I think you'll find that in most societies, you'll find that the non-planners outnumber the planners. Nothing out of the ordinary about that.

I'd say at our house, planning is a tradition; for example, my wife and I already have our unborn children's post-secondary and graduate education arranged (which probably means they'll choose to be pro golfers or rappers)... barring a worldwide financial meltdown of course.

It is even more relative than that. People that do plan don't plan everything.

My wife is Thai (but that should make no difference).... she buys food daily, for a couple of reasons, it's fresher that way and secondly, we don't have a 'fish on Friday' schedule.

But she did get some new soil laid and flattened on the land that we aren't going to build on until the rainy season is over.

Plan what you need to plan..... for the rest, take it as it comes.

(P.S. overpaying bills is a bit silly)

(P.P.S. decimals are whole numbers too Brit, it's the bit that comes after the point that is a fraction of a decimal ..... one two three four five six seven eight nine ten.... coming, ready or not ...... point oh one point oh two point oh three point oh four ..... yawn )

I expect she wanted the soil to have time to settle, wise planning ahead Mrs Thaddeus.

[qualtrough]

The OP is not alone. My wife has many virtues, but planning is not among them. One way this manifests itself is at lunchtime. I drink either Coke or iced tea. At least once a week I am informed that we are out of those, despite my having repeatedly told her that when she sees one bottle left in the fridge that means it is time to get more. Very simple, no? See one bottle=time to order more. Getting more is as simple as making a phone call to a motorcycle taxi to wing down to the 7/11 for 10 B roundtrip, but more often than not that happens as I sit waiting for something to drink at lunchtime, not before. I have tried everything-it is hopeless. I suppose as faults go it could be far worse. Not that that is the only one... I would balance this by recounting one of my faults but I can't think of any at the moment.

Edited August 29, 2006 by qualtrough

[Mobi]

The OP is not alone. My wife has many virtues, but planning is not among them. One way this manifests itself is at lunchtime. I drink either Coke or iced tea. At least once a week I am informed that we are out of those, despite my having repeatedly told her that when she sees one bottle left in the fridge that means it is time to get more. Very simple, no? See one bottle=time to order more. Getting more is as simple as making a phone call to a motorcycle taxi to wing down to the 7/11 for 10 B roundtrip, but more often than not that happens as I sit waiting for something to drink at lunchtime, not before. I have tried everything-it is hopeless. I suppose as faults go it could be far worse. Not that that is the only one... I would balance this by recounting one of my faults but I can't think of any at the moment.

I can. When your bottle of coke is getting low, why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest' for not planning like a farang and not running to your beck and call?

[Donz]

The OP is not alone. My wife has many virtues, but planning is not among them. One way this manifests itself is at lunchtime. I drink either Coke or iced tea. At least once a week I am informed that we are out of those, despite my having repeatedly told her that when she sees one bottle left in the fridge that means it is time to get more. Very simple, no? See one bottle=time to order more. Getting more is as simple as making a phone call to a motorcycle taxi to wing down to the 7/11 for 10 B roundtrip, but more often than not that happens as I sit waiting for something to drink at lunchtime, not before. I have tried everything-it is hopeless. I suppose as faults go it could be far worse. Not that that is the only one... I would balance this by recounting one of my faults but I can't think of any at the moment.

I can. When your bottle of coke is getting low, why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest' for not planning like a farang and not running to your beck and call?

Good call. Looks like someone isnt planning themselves

[qualtrough]

The OP is not alone. My wife has many virtues, but planning is not among them. One way this manifests itself is at lunchtime. I drink either Coke or iced tea. At least once a week I am informed that we are out of those, despite my having repeatedly told her that when she sees one bottle left in the fridge that means it is time to get more. Very simple, no? See one bottle=time to order more. Getting more is as simple as making a phone call to a motorcycle taxi to wing down to the 7/11 for 10 B roundtrip, but more often than not that happens as I sit waiting for something to drink at lunchtime, not before. I have tried everything-it is hopeless. I suppose as faults go it could be far worse. Not that that is the only one... I would balance this by recounting one of my faults but I can't think of any at the moment.

I can. When your bottle of coke is getting low, why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest' for not planning like a farang and not running to your beck and call?

As I suspect is the case in most marriages, the tasks involved in the running of the household and undertaking all the various other duties involved in maintaining a life together are divided between the spouses. My wife does not have a job outside the home, so I am the sole financial provider, house and vehicle maintainer, chauffeur, etc. & etc. My wife takes care of many household chores and prepares meals (some, not all) for me. This division of labor is such a natural arrangement that it is not really worthy of comment except to point out that in our marriage, like most others, there are different obligations for each of the parties. I could indeed certainly get up and run down to the store to get a drink when my wife forgets to restock. Using your yardstick I have to assume then that if my wife needs money for something I should tell her to get up off her arse and get a job? You mind your marriage and I will mind mine thank you very much.

Mobi-Reread my post. I neither wrote nor implied anything about 'planning like a farang'. The OP asked if there were others experiencing what he had, and I replied to let him know he was not alone in that regard. I have just re-read the original post and see that the OP also made no claim that his wife's failure to plan was characteristic of Thais. If you want to characterize planning as a farang virtue you are free to do so, but those are your words, not mine.

Edited August 29, 2006 by qualtrough

[Thaddeus]

The OP is not alone. My wife has many virtues, but planning is not among them. One way this manifests itself is at lunchtime. I drink either Coke or iced tea. At least once a week I am informed that we are out of those, despite my having repeatedly told her that when she sees one bottle left in the fridge that means it is time to get more. Very simple, no? See one bottle=time to order more. Getting more is as simple as making a phone call to a motorcycle taxi to wing down to the 7/11 for 10 B roundtrip, but more often than not that happens as I sit waiting for something to drink at lunchtime, not before. I have tried everything-it is hopeless. I suppose as faults go it could be far worse. Not that that is the only one... I would balance this by recounting one of my faults but I can't think of any at the moment.

I can. When your bottle of coke is getting low, why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest' for not planning like a farang and not running to your beck and call?

As I suspect is the case in most marriages, the tasks involved in the running of the household and undertaking all the various other duties involved in maintaining a life together are divided between the spouses. My wife does not have a job outside the home, so I am the sole financial provider, house and vehicle maintainer, chauffeur, etc. & etc. My wife takes care of many household chores and prepares meals (some, not all) for me. This division of labor is such a natural arrangement that it is not really worthy of comment except to point out that in our marriage, like most others, there are different obligations for each of the parties. I could indeed certainly get up and run down to the store to get a drink when my wife forgets to restock. Using your yardstick I have to assume then that if my wife needs money for something I should tell her to get up off her arse and get a job? You mind your marriage and I will mind mine thank you very much.

Mobi-Reread my post. I neither wrote nor implied anything about 'planning like a farang'. The OP asked if there were others experiencing what he had, and I replied to let him know he was not alone in that regard. I have just re-read the original post and see that the OP also made no claim that his wife's failure to plan was characteristic of Thais. If you want to characterize planning as a farang virtue you are free to do so, but those are your words, not mine.

And that is what most westerners would call 'back peddling'

[qualtrough]

And that is what most westerners would call 'back peddling'

Thaddeus-Would you care to explain further what you mean by 'back peddling.'? I assume you mean that I was being disingenuous when I said that neither the OP nor I wrote or implied that Thais had an inability to plan. The OP was referring to his wife and made no other claims beyond that, and I answered the question posed by his post by letting him know he was not the only one in the same boat. If my assumption of your meaning is incorrect I apologize, and would appreciate your explaining what you mean by 'back peddling'. If my assumption is correct, would you mind carefully re-reading the OP and my post and then point out anything in them that refers to, or implies, that Thais as a whole are unable to plan? Others on this thread have made that claim-I have not. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Edited August 29, 2006 by qualtrough

[Chopper]

GH. That is exactly how it should be. As an aside and slightly off topic when I was working if someone rang up sick they were immediately called back at home to verify that they were indeed there.

I would of sacked them the first time they pulled something like that

No one was ever caught out Donz. It is not to say that people would not pull a flanker from time to time but you have to minimise their chances. That is precisely why I instituted the procedure to be proactive rather than reactive.

[Thaddeus]

And that is what most westerners would call 'back peddling'

Thaddeus-Would you care to explain further what you mean by 'back peddling.'? I assume you mean that I was being disingenuous when I said that neither the OP nor I wrote or implied that Thais had an inability to plan. The OP was referring to his wife and made no other claims beyond that, and I answered the question posed by his post by letting him know he was not the only one in the same boat. If my assumption of your meaning is incorrect I apologize, and would appreciate your explaining what you mean by 'back peddling'. If my assumption is correct, would you mind carefully re-reading the OP and my post and then point out anything in them that refers to, or implies, that Thais as a whole are unable to plan? Others on this thread have made that claim-I have not. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I was merely referring to the fact that you got a chuff on when someone else suggested that..........

why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest'

You went on to give more details about why you shouldn't have to do that.

Absolutely nothing to do with being disingenuous, if I thought that you were telling porkies I probably wouldn't have said anything at all..... therefore, apology accepted.

[Mobi]

And that is what most westerners would call 'back peddling'

Thaddeus-Would you care to explain further what you mean by 'back peddling.'? I assume you mean that I was being disingenuous when I said that neither the OP nor I wrote or implied that Thais had an inability to plan. The OP was referring to his wife and made no other claims beyond that, and I answered the question posed by his post by letting him know he was not the only one in the same boat. If my assumption of your meaning is incorrect I apologize, and would appreciate your explaining what you mean by 'back peddling'. If my assumption is correct, would you mind carefully re-reading the OP and my post and then point out anything in them that refers to, or implies, that Thais as a whole are unable to plan? Others on this thread have made that claim-I have not. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I was merely referring to the fact that you got a chuff on when someone else suggested that..........

why don't you get up off your arse and go and buy a new one, instead of sitting around getting upset with your 'dearest'

You went on to give more details about why you shouldn't have to do that.

Absolutely nothing to do with being disingenuous, if I thought that you were telling porkies I probably wouldn't have said anything at all..... therefore, apology accepted.

Hey guys - don't get your knickers in a twist - My suggestion wasn't meant to be taken too seriously - this is a light hearted thread isn't it?

I just had a vision of qualtrough, sitting - Homer Simpson-like - at his kichen table, awaiting his beloved to serve him lunch, knowing full well that his coke bottle was empty for the umteenth time, and when she goes to the fridge and discovers it so, she rushes off in a tizzy to get the motorcycle man to rush down to the 7-11 for a replacement before hubby throws a wobbly.

Probably completely untrue.

However, when this sort of thing has happened in my household, I have got off my arse and done something about it myself' and - for as us farangs say - lead by example; and for the most part it works. Of course sometimes, I'm lumbered from thereon in - "let the silly old bugger do it himself if he wants to", thinks wifey.

Anyway qualtrough - no insult intended - may your lunches forever be a haven of copious, un-empty bottles of coke

[Chopper]

I just had a vision of qualtrough, sitting - Homer Simpson-like - at his kichen table, awaiting his beloved to serve him lunch, knowing full well that his coke bottle was empty for the umteenth time, and when she goes to the fridge and discovers it so, she rushes off in a tizzy to get the motorcycle man to rush down to the 7-11 for a replacement before hubby throws a wobbly.

Probably completely untrue.

No offence qualtrough you could substitute your name for anyones but the image in the above prose just made me nearly spill my coffee all over my keyboard.

[davidjtayler]

LOL ....

[phibunmike]

Anyone else care to speak up. My wife who is Thai and I love very much does not look past a day or 2. I mean we go shopping she does not take into fact we are all most out of something and when I suggest we get some as we are getting low she looks at me like I am crazy and says that there in some still in the fridge or such and we can always come back. Diapers are a good example but one of many things. I like to over pay our Thai bills say instead of paying exactly say 388 baht I pay 400 or 500 baht so next months bill is lower and she will again look at me like I have lost what little marbles I have. Why over pay she asks and I try to explain and she goes into that sad little shake of the head crazy guy look. AM I over planning folks?

Yes most times I go along as it is easier..Yes I am very whipped

I think in part this comes from a subsistence culture, where there is only enough for one day at a time. When a thai buys a bottle of whiskey, it is all drunk at one session. My wife had to explain to family that when there is beer or whiskey or bricks or whatever in my house when we go away, it is not "left-overs" that are not required and need to be finished up, but that falangs like to have stuff available for the future. Once they understood that bit of madness, I had no more problems with returning from a trip, going to the fridge for a beer, and ending up with a long face

The same when I buy a case of beer or soft drinks - "oh, are you having a party ?" - no, just easier to get it in one go and not have to go shopping every day....

[Heng]

On the other hand... do farang visa runner/immigrants plan beyond 90 days?

[qualtrough]

Hey guys - don't get your knickers in a twist - My suggestion wasn't meant to be taken too seriously - this is a light hearted thread isn't it?

I just had a vision of qualtrough, sitting - Homer Simpson-like - at his kichen table, awaiting his beloved to serve him lunch, knowing full well that his coke bottle was empty for the umteenth time, and when she goes to the fridge and discovers it so, she rushes off in a tizzy to get the motorcycle man to rush down to the 7-11 for a replacement before hubby throws a wobbly.

Probably completely untrue.

However, when this sort of thing has happened in my household, I have got off my arse and done something about it myself' and - for as us farangs say - lead by example; and for the most part it works. Of course sometimes, I'm lumbered from thereon in - "let the silly old bugger do it himself if he wants to", thinks wifey.

Anyway qualtrough - no insult intended - may your lunches forever be a haven of copious, un-empty bottles of coke

Mobi, your vision was pretty accurate, except that for lunch I like to eat while surfing the net, so lunch is served at my computer desk. I would write more but lunch is about to be served. God help her if there isn't an iced tea on that tray!

Edited August 30, 2006 by qualtrough

[Thaddeus]

Hey guys - don't get your knickers in a twist - My suggestion wasn't meant to be taken too seriously - this is a light hearted thread isn't it?

I just had a vision of qualtrough, sitting - Homer Simpson-like - at his kichen table, awaiting his beloved to serve him lunch, knowing full well that his coke bottle was empty for the umteenth time, and when she goes to the fridge and discovers it so, she rushes off in a tizzy to get the motorcycle man to rush down to the 7-11 for a replacement before hubby throws a wobbly.

Probably completely untrue.

However, when this sort of thing has happened in my household, I have got off my arse and done something about it myself' and - for as us farangs say - lead by example; and for the most part it works. Of course sometimes, I'm lumbered from thereon in - "let the silly old bugger do it himself if he wants to", thinks wifey.

Anyway qualtrough - no insult intended - may your lunches forever be a haven of copious, un-empty bottles of coke

Mobi, your vision was pretty accurate, except that for lunch I like to eat while surfing the net, so lunch is served at my computer desk. I would write more but lunch is about to be served. God help her if there isn't an iced tea on that tray!

qualtrough ..... handshake offered.

It is a light-hearted thread after all.

[Gumballl]

With the topic of shopping and planning ahead... How many of you actually remember to take with you the stack of "worthless" 25- and 50-satang coins with you when you go shopping at a supermarket?

Many times I have forgotten, but when I do remember (and I take my wife's stash as well), she gives me a funny look as to why I care about those insignificant coins. I tell her it is because I do not want anymore these coins!

There have been times when I buy two of "something" just to avoid having to get back a 50-satang coin.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Gumballl

[Heng]

You can trade in those 25 and 50 satang pieces at Carrefour and Tesco Lotus periodically (obviously this will depend on the demand of each particular branch). You can also throw handfuls at temple kids, they certainly don't view these pieces as "worthless."

[Thaddeus]

You can trade in those 25 and 50 satang pieces at Carrefour and Tesco Lotus periodically (obviously this will depend on the demand of each particular branch). You can also throw handfuls at temple kids, they certainly don't view these pieces as "worthless."

Good suggestion, works on visa runs too when you really don't need the service of an umbrella (they are clamping down quite heavily now with the kids at Chong Chom though)