Registering A House In A Thai Company Name

[geoffphuket]

I have a problem; My house in Patong has to be sold as part of a court divorce settlement with my ex. Trouble is, if I find a 'farang' buyer, he (or she) would have to put it their name as it can't be long term leased from my ex - it has to be disposed of completely. I've had a few serious enquiries, but all have dropped out when they discover they can't put it in their name.

The property is situated on the hillside in Patong and although it's in wonderful position with great views over the bay, it doesn't appeal to Thai's - who seem to prefer property on level ground.

So to summarize:

1) I have to find a buyer - not a leaser

2) It has to be a Thai or a foreigner that can put it in a company name.

Any advice appreciated

Geoffphuket

[Mobi]

You haven't said whether the house is currently owned by a company or an individual. If it's a company in which you are a shareholder, this may present a further problem.

I think that for the time being you may have problems. Your only option at present is to sell to a Thai who is willing to give a 30 year lease back to the farang. If the farang is married to a Thai he can get a usufruct agreement with his wife which will guarantee him lifetime tenure.

The law may change, and the situation might ease, but don't hold your breath - could be months if not years.

[geoffphuket]

You haven't said whether the house is currently owned by a company or an individual. If it's a company in which you are a shareholder, this may present a further problem.

I think that for the time being you may have problems. Your only option at present is to sell to a Thai who is willing to give a 30 year lease back to the farang. If the farang is married to a Thai he can get a usufruct agreement with his wife which will guarantee him lifetime tenure.

The law may change, and the situation might ease, but don't hold your breath - could be months if not years.

Hi Mobi - thanks for the reply,

The property is currently in my ex wifes name, but the court order has an instuction for her to sell it... It looks like I need to find a foreigner with a Thai wife, who is happy for it to be put in her name. I know the 'wife' would have to declare that it's her money to do it that way.

[Jing-jo]

do you have any pics front side rear veiws veiws from each window side views from either side of the front entrance and same at the rear even if it hasnt got an entrance and accurate layout details of your house eg floor plan how many sqw for the building and for the ground plot grid ref to check out it's position

my brother may be after a house in Patong and he also has company set up already i think or could buy it via his thai wife

you can send direct to /email removed, mod

cheers

Edited August 28, 2006 by tuky

[geoffphuket]

do you have any pics front side rear veiws veiws from each window side views from either side of the front entrance and same at the rear even if it hasnt got an entrance and accurate layout details of your house eg floor plan how many sqw for the building and for the ground plot grid ref to check out it's position

my brother may be after a house in Patong and he also has company set up already i think or could buy it via his thai wife

you can send direct to / email removed, mod

cheers

Give me some time...I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for the interest

Edited August 28, 2006 by tuky

[geoffphuket]

Just a couple of links to the property

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75091

http://www.ukclassifieds.co.uk/phuket_thai...la-o120915.html

[Dragonman]

You haven't said whether the house is currently owned by a company or an individual. If it's a company in which you are a shareholder, this may present a further problem.

I think that for the time being you may have problems. Your only option at present is to sell to a Thai who is willing to give a 30 year lease back to the farang. If the farang is married to a Thai he can get a usufruct agreement with his wife which will guarantee him lifetime tenure.

The law may change, and the situation might ease, but don't hold your breath - could be months if not years.

Hi Mobi - thanks for the reply,

The property is currently in my ex wifes name, but the court order has an instuction for her to sell it... It looks like I need to find a foreigner with a Thai wife, who is happy for it to be put in her name. I know the 'wife' would have to declare that it's her money to do it that way.

Hi geoff. Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I am always interested in Case Law which is difficult to find in Thailand. Was the Order made on the basis of you receiving a share of the proceeds of her property, or was it in respect of something else?

[Mobi]

You haven't said whether the house is currently owned by a company or an individual. If it's a company in which you are a shareholder, this may present a further problem.

I think that for the time being you may have problems. Your only option at present is to sell to a Thai who is willing to give a 30 year lease back to the farang. If the farang is married to a Thai he can get a usufruct agreement with his wife which will guarantee him lifetime tenure.

The law may change, and the situation might ease, but don't hold your breath - could be months if not years.

Hi Mobi - thanks for the reply,

The property is currently in my ex wifes name, but the court order has an instuction for her to sell it... It looks like I need to find a foreigner with a Thai wife, who is happy for it to be put in her name. I know the 'wife' would have to declare that it's her money to do it that way.

Hi geoff. Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I am always interested in Case Law which is difficult to find in Thailand. Was the Order made on the basis of you receiving a share of the proceeds of her property, or was it in respect of something else?

Hi Dragonman,

Also off topic, but if you are interested in case law this one might interest you.

A few years ago I was ripped off by a Thai lady and she used my money to buy a house in Samut Prakan.

I went through the courts and obtained judgement against her which ordered her to sell the house and give me the proceeds.

Well she wasn't going top do that, as if she made an appearance she woould be arrested as there was a warrant out for her.

So after an interminable period the court ordered the public auction office to sell the house. Before this could be done they had to issue new land title deeds which took forever.

Eventually it was put up for auction, but because no one knew about it it nearly got sold for next to nothing to an 'interested party'. The house was withdrawn from sale, and to cut a long story short I finally got someone go and make a half way decent bid for it - although it was still way below market price. But anyway I got something back which was better than a a kick in the arse. The lawyer worked on a contingency fee basis (plus an upfront retainer), so everyone made.

the girl is still lying low, probably paying off the police with my money.

[Godders]

Like Dragonman, I would love to know on what basis falang came to be awarded part of the proceeds of the sale of a house owned by his Thai wife, as land and property entitlements have to be signed away by non-Thais before their Thai spouses before the house can be registered.

The legal advice I have been given consistently is that no Thai divorce court will even consider taking the family home into account when assessing the joint assets or make any settlement which awards land and property, or the proceeds from its sale, to an alien.

If a new legal precedent has been set which would enable falang divorcees to rescue at least something tangible from the rubble of their wrecked marriages, it would indeed be helpful to have the details.

[mrbojangles]

If a new legal precedent has been set which would enable falang divorcees to rescue at least something tangible from the rubble of their wrecked marriages, it would indeed be helpful to have the details.

Quite right Godders. And it might help Geoff to sell his property. At the moment (because of the various things going on) potentail buyer's could be put off but if they know how to protect their assets, they "might" take the plunge.

[geoffphuket]

To set the record straight, I've been awarded a 50/50 split of the sale proceeds (house and land), based on the fact that I'd retained all documentary evidence for the purchase, showing without any doubt that it was my money that had originally paid for it. In fact my lawyer was convinced that we’d win 100% such was my evidence.

Unfortunately the plan went wrong because I’d held on to the land paper after my spit with my wife – it was kept with our marriage certificate and other important papers and I’d overlooked the fact that this is illegal for a foreigner to do….I’ll expand on this in a moment.

The plot thickened because 10 years ago when the land was purchased, we were forced to put it in her mothers name because the law at the time prevented her putting it in her (our) married name.

During our 5 years of separation – and after the law changed, my wife decided that she’d put it in her name and sell it (probably disappearing with the money). However her mother made the mistake at the land office of signing a statement saying it was her money that had originally paid for it. When my lawyer got hold of that he was going to push for a criminal prosecution …this was circumvented by her lawyer threatening me with same for holding the land paper.

The net result was that a 50/50 agreement was settled on – much to my dismay. The alternative option would have been to proceed with the criminal prosecution, probably ensuring that both my mother-in-law and I would have been cell mates!

The case was heard at the Family court in Phuket and had a total of five hearings over 6 months.

For the rest of my life I will always wonder what the outcome would have been had I not have kept the stupid land document.

Edited August 30, 2006 by geoffphuket

[Dragonman]

To set the record straight, I've been awarded a 50/50 split of the sale proceeds (house and land), based on the fact that I'd retained all documentary evidence for the purchase, showing without any doubt that it was my money that had originally paid for it. In fact my lawyer was convinced that we’d win 100% such was my evidence.

Unfortunately the plan went wrong because I’d held on to the land paper after my spit with my wife – it was kept with our marriage certificate and other important papers and I’d overlooked the fact that this is illegal for a foreigner to do….I’ll expand on this in a moment.

The plot thickened because 10 years ago when the land was purchased, we were forced to put it in her mothers name because the law at the time prevented her putting it in her (our) married name.

During our 5 years of separation – and after the law changed, my wife decided that she’d put it in her name and sell it (probably disappearing with the money). However her mother made the mistake at the land office of signing a statement saying it was her money that had originally paid for it. When my lawyer got hold of that he was going to push for a criminal prosecution …this was circumvented by her lawyer threatening me with same for holding the land paper.

The net result was that a 50/50 agreement was settled on – much to my dismay. The alternative option would have been to proceed with the criminal prosecution, probably ensuring that both my mother-in-law and I would have been cell mates!

The case was heard at the Family court in Phuket and had a total of five hearings over 6 months.

For the rest of my life I will always wonder what the outcome would have been had I not have kept the stupid land document.

Thanks geoff and Mobi. If anyone else has Case Law they can provide would much appreciate.

geoff. Whilst I agree that it was possible to get the 100%, I would not consider it likely, and think there was really little link between the "crimes" involved, both normally considered fairly minor. It is more likely that the Judge decided on the principles of "unjust enrichment" and "reasonable and equitable" settlement. It of course would be somewhat more difficult now as you have to sign away rights at the Land Office! I presume you signed nothing when your former wife took over ownership from her mother? It is good to see a thai Judge looking at the large picture, as I see them doing where farangs have bent the rules regarding lifetime servitudes. Nowadays I see a lease and registering the structure as the best method of obtaining a "fair" community property settlement in Court. Good luck with selling the property.

Mobi. Thai law moves quite slowly, but I'm glad you made something back. The judgement seems fair and is probably better than you would have got in say UK, where it is rare to Court Order the sale of the house for such a crime.

[Mobi]

Mobi. Thai law moves quite slowly, but I'm glad you made something back. The judgement seems fair and is probably better than you would have got in say UK, where it is rare to Court Order the sale of the house for such a crime.

I guess it helped that I had a whole load of documentary evidence plus witnesses, including a crooked house agent who turned King's evidence to save her own skin, and the cae was completely undefended for reasons previously stated.

In talking to police and lawyers, it was interesting to hear them say very strongly that they didn't approve of these ladies who ripped farangs off, as it was not only morally reprehensible but also gave the country a bad name! Hence the sympathy from the court?

Maybe - who knows

Or maybe they just felt sorry for poor old Mobi when he recounted his miserable, foolish story to the judges.

[huahinheartbreak]

Or maybe they just felt sorry for poor old Mobi when he recounted his miserable, foolish story to the judges.

How expensive is all this litigation? If one has to go to litigation can one get a flat fee, or contingency, in lieu of pay by the hour? and what is a "reasonable" by the hour fee, if there is a reasonable fee?

I have a contract with a builder that requires arbitration before litigation if the parties cannot come to an amicable agreemetnt. Where can I educate myself on arbitration? Arbitrtion is supposed to be binding. but if one party doesnt like the result, wont they just say, sue me.

"life is a tale told by an idiot"

[Dragonman]

Or maybe they just felt sorry for poor old Mobi when he recounted his miserable, foolish story to the judges.

How expensive is all this litigation? If one has to go to litigation can one get a flat fee, or contingency, in lieu of pay by the hour? and what is a "reasonable" by the hour fee, if there is a reasonable fee?

I have a contract with a builder that requires arbitration before litigation if the parties cannot come to an amicable agreemetnt. Where can I educate myself on arbitration? Arbitrtion is supposed to be binding. but if one party doesnt like the result, wont they just say, sue me.

"life is a tale told by an idiot"

You will need written agreement by both parties for the Arbitration to be binding, and I would suggest an In Court Arbitration. There are very limited reasons to appeal, and if either party does not comply, application for a Court Order to obtain assets must be applied for.

Lawyers fees differ substantially. Not many thai lawyers act purely on contingency, but possibly retainer and contingency. As in most countries depends on their confidence.