Aussie expat Mark Pendelbury granted bail in Phuket murder case

[Leo123]

He should pop down to Chalong Bay, jump on a yacht, get dropped off in Langkawi, get a new passport and go home.

[robblok]

That is what you get for carrying a knife and waving it instead of legging it.

Sounds like a clear case of self defence to me.

Not as long as you can get away, if your with your back to a wall fighting an other guy with a knife maybe. This case.. he could have left.. did not state the other guy was armed and he was getting his knife out.

I don't get it all those guys feeling like Rambo going out tooled up. I have NEVER brought weapons with me.. and I NEVER fight I did that when i was a kid. Now I just avoid fights or people avoid me because they don't want to fight me.

Just by carrying a weapon your increasing danger for yourself. This is one of the two bad outcomes when you have a weapon.. you win but kill someone.. that will mean jail-time.. the other outcome you loose and get killed with your own weapon.

Did you not read the previous post or look at the video? He didn´t think he was Rambo, he was carrying a pocket knife as many do, including myself. In the picture it looks like the blade is 3 inches long and it has a bottle opener on the blade, which is reason enough to carry it !! It is certainly not anything Rambo would be seen with !!

The previous post quoted :

¨"

There is CCTV footage available for viewing on the Phuket Newspaper's web site. It shows Mark across the street taking pictures, then crossing to take more. Almost immediately it shows him trying to leave "at pace" but followed by about 6 other men. According to Mark's account the men who followed, attacked him, hitting and kicking and he feared for his life, so took out his knife. It also appears that 2 tourists, Indian men, helped rescue him from the attack.

If six guys attacked me, I'd try to defend myself too.

Earlier accounts say the 'bouncers' claimed Mark was in the bar, drunk and causing a commotion, so they were ejecting him. Video footage shows that was not true. And he has witnesses that he was at a Rotary meeting earlier.

So there seems to be credible circumstances to support his claim of self-defense.

(Note: Moderator - if it's not okay to reference "Phuket Newspaper", my apologies).¨

How can the danger be increased when your life is already in jeopardy? The security guard thug got what he deserves IMO, Mark may not have walked away from it if he had not have taken out his bottle opener, the odds were certainly stacked against him.

If your version is the truth.. sure but that was not what was written in the Article. But in a situation like that sure. I Still think its stupid to carry a knife as it could go real wrong.

[tigermonkey]

That is what you get for carrying a knife and waving it instead of legging it.

Sounds like a clear case of self defence to me.

Not as long as you can get away, if your with your back to a wall fighting an other guy with a knife maybe. This case.. he could have left.. did not state the other guy was armed and he was getting his knife out.

I don't get it all those guys feeling like Rambo going out tooled up. I have NEVER brought weapons with me.. and I NEVER fight I did that when i was a kid. Now I just avoid fights or people avoid me because they don't want to fight me.

Just by carrying a weapon your increasing danger for yourself. This is one of the two bad outcomes when you have a weapon.. you win but kill someone.. that will mean jail-time.. the other outcome you loose and get killed with your own weapon.

He was attacked by 6 people who chased him down the street before attacking him. We all know what happens in this situation as it's been reported 100's of times over the years and most of us have probably seen it - he was about to have the shit kicked out of him 'Thai style' (many on one) by an unruly mob.

Some people take exception to being attacked by a mob of thugs, I know I would. I think it's a good thing he had that knife on him or we might be reading about yet another foreigner murdered in Thailand.

Sorry, but you can't pretend that this all started when the mob started chasing him - it didn't. If he had not decided to insert himself into the previous ejection/altercation, none of this would have happened. It was none of his business, and who knows what remarks he made while filming, etc. In Thailand actions like that are called provocation.

[Travelman868]

Bail when charged with murder? Amazing Thailand!

It's not just Thailand. In the UK they arrest illegal immigrants and then let them out on licence. Would you believe that vast numbers just disappear.

Of course they turn up to collect there living allowance and then disappear again.

[Thai Travel Bug]

For every tosser who says sell defence, poor old Mark was just looking after himself, suck this and suck that, did you actually have a look at the knife he was carrying. It is not one that you peel apples with, it is not a knife that you cut shoelaces with, it is what is classed as an offensive weapon, and it is what you would provoke or kill with. Stop defending him...he carried it with full intention of using it if he felt the need arised......wake up kids, he did use an offensive weapon to kill a person, wether or not that was his intention, that was the result. STOP DEFENDING THIS MAN, he killed someone, and that someone could have been you, or your half Thai child, your brother in law or Papa.....HE KILLED SOMEONE.....OK. No argument.....Someone died at his hand because he was carrying a rambo type, short shanked offensive weapon...

[luckyman]

I think that making pictures of a street fight in Thailand is not a smart move, he should know as he's been here a while and has a nice business so that makes no sense to me.

Secondly, when ordered by some one, a local, in that particular area of Phuket at that time of day, I would listen and obey directly if I had been him.

It's really an awful place, Patong, and in my opinion the cesspit of Southern Thailand, where lowlifes from all over the world mix with local Thai low life hustlers, runners, bouncers, bar girls, dealers, pimps and then some.

[Goanna]

I absolutely don't condone anyone carrying a knife.

that said, in answer to all the suggestions that he run away? Na. That's not the Australian way. Have a go, and stand up for what's right.

Ok wimps, unleash yourpussy replies on me. Haha.

I do understand that this is not for everyone. But why bag someone who has the balls to have a go.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Goanna

[RigPig]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

So because he saw something (probably unjust) happening and was willing to do something (that Thais do everyday) and make a difference in an attempt to uphold justice nd fairness to people who were probably visitors to this country he should be willing to just get the life kicked out of him by brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws and anyone else who wants to participate without defending himself. Have you stopped tothink who actually escalated this in the first place? It was the brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws you speak about so fondly!! How can you possibly defend 6 cowardly and much younger men intent on causing someone grievous bodily harm or possibly death and at the same time critisize a man for not allowing it to happen by defending himself with a glorified bottle opener?

I hope you one day have the guts to help justice and fairness prevail and that you are lucky enough not to find yourself in this mans predicament.

This man was not a person but an animal on a rampage intent on causing harm to a man over twice his age all because he saw injustice and decided to do something about it (video it)!! It happened on a public street, the doors were not closed to Tai Pan and he was clearly not on the premises.

[luckyman]

Posted on the topic earlier this week and stand by what I said then. I sensed it would come down to this. Mark, unfortunately will regret his decisions, regardless of the back n forth by us all of "who can, should, or would" in such a situation. At 59 and a 10 year resident here, he should know it's best to turn the other direction and exit with pace when he sees impending trouble like this..., not become an active participant.

My heart goes out to him and to the family of the man now deceased. There's nothing but sad written all over this event.

very well written post, thanks!!

[Thai Travel Bug]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

What would you do my friend, in all damn seriousness. Would you pull out a knife and stab someone....if you would, you are no better than all of the pommy, aussie, russian drunken thugs we read about.....is that what you would do at home....i think not....but if thats your gig, why dont you arm yourself with a knife, and go and piss off a thai doorman doing his job......see you in the big house monkey guts.....i have no pity for fools such as yourself.

And what would you do, if you were being beat by a pack of thugs and feared for your life? Lay down and die, or fight?

Did you see the video?

[RigPig]

Certainly seems as if he would have been another victim of a vicious crowd,however he got the better of them and someone else perished as a result of their violent aims to destroy evidence against them ,.

The bailed person in my view would certainly be judged to have committed an act of self defense or in this case self preservation against a rampaging violent mob intent on inflicting serious if not fatal harm upon him.

Play with fire and you burn your fingers.

You take it upon yourself to film an ejection/altercation that is absolutely none of your business, thus inserting yourself into an already inflamed situation. Mind your own business or ----" play with fire and burn your fingers". Sorry, but the Ozzie voluntarily involved himself in this situation - he should have known better.

Whats the saying ¨all that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing¨

Sleep easy, don´t do anything when you see something wrong, and stay off public streets you may be attacked by 6 men half your age that percieve you as threat because you recorded their thuggish behaviour.......

[gchurch259]

I have not seen what method was being used to eject the two patrons from the club, it could have been a an assault/battery which Pendlebury was right to record.

There are too many muscle man security guards, not only in Thailand but elsewhere.

The Guard must have been doing something wrong, or just overly impressed with his perceived authority.

It should be interesting to know the truth, not the media or police version. There is always your story and my story and somewhere in between lies the truth..

[luckyman]

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Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

how many times has it been the other way around in Thailand ????????? and then just brushed under the carpet

That's why it's called Thailand.

Remember, we are just guests and always will be !

If a Thai gets caught filming a night time fracas in say Amsterdam's red light district, because that is what Patong is, and Tai Pan is kind of a brothel just with very loud music, he has a problem just as well.

Local business owners might worry it ends up on the internet for example.

i'm just sayin'

[wvavin]

What is there to talk? A murder suspect could be bailed? I begin to like the Indonesian Law.

[RigPig]

I think that making pictures of a street fight in Thailand is not a smart move, he should know as he's been here a while and has a nice business so that makes no sense to me.

Secondly, when ordered by some one, a local, in that particular area of Phuket at that time of day, I would listen and obey directly if I had been him.

It's really an awful place, Patong, and in my opinion the cesspit of Southern Thailand, where lowlifes from all over the world mix with local Thai low life hustlers, runners, bouncers, bar girls, dealers, pimps and then some.

WellI hope I am NEVER in any trouble and you are the only one who could help as you would just obey the perpetrators and run away. I hope that after you would get a good nights sleep but then people with no sense of morality or conscience always do I guess.....

[RigPig]

For every tosser who says sell defence, poor old Mark was just looking after himself, suck this and suck that, did you actually have a look at the knife he was carrying. It is not one that you peel apples with, it is not a knife that you cut shoelaces with, it is what is classed as an offensive weapon, and it is what you would provoke or kill with. Stop defending him...he carried it with full intention of using it if he felt the need arised......wake up kids, he did use an offensive weapon to kill a person, wether or not that was his intention, that was the result. STOP DEFENDING THIS MAN, he killed someone, and that someone could have been you, or your half Thai child, your brother in law or Papa.....HE KILLED SOMEONE.....OK. No argument.....Someone died at his hand because he was carrying a rambo type, short shanked offensive weapon...

What this knife? I don think Rambo would have been seen with this 3 inch bottle opener.......

[gchurch259]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

So because he saw something (probably unjust) happening and was willing to do something (that Thais do everyday) and make a difference in an attempt to uphold justice nd fairness to people who were probably visitors to this country he should be willing to just get the life kicked out of him by brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws and anyone else who wants to participate without defending himself. Have you stopped tothink who actually escalated this in the first place? It was the brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws you speak about so fondly!! How can you possibly defend 6 cowardly and much younger men intent on causing someone grievous bodily harm or possibly death and at the same time critisize a man for not allowing it to happen by defending himself with a glorified bottle opener?

I hope you one day have the guts to help justice and fairness prevail and that you are lucky enough not to find yourself in this mans predicament.

This man was not a person but an animal on a rampage intent on causing harm to a man over twice his age all because he saw injustice and decided to do something about it (video it)!! It happened on a public street, the doors were not closed to Tai Pan and he was clearly not on the premises.

RigPig, you may have been here too long, unless you are Thai already. You are right it is bad when someone gets killed. But in some places we have a saying "If you don't start something there won't be something". The man was within his legal rights to video a possibly illegal act being performed.

[atyclb]

Bail when charged with murder? Amazing Thailand!

Let's see what happens in other countries:

US: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/news/ct-abn-murder-arrest-st-0311-20150310-story.html

Oz: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/australianew-zealand/story/partner-sydney-siege-gunman-charged-murder-out-bail-faces-bail-

NZ: http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/strict-bail-conditions-woman-charged-stabbing-murder-6253141

Canada: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/former_ncaa_star_wins_bail_on_scarborough_murder_charge.html

Hmmm... I guess Thailand is not so amazing after all !

It is only amazing to those who don't do their homework before posting. If they're not sure or don't know, why in he hell do they post something that can be easily discredited?

perhaps you clicked the wrong link as this is not the oxford law review forum

[JoeLing]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

Wonder how long it goes until you will post your sad story how a brother,

an uncle, a son, a friend or your wife "focked" you over and the rest of the

family just turned their backs and didn't see anything.

Or will you just quietly commit suicide?

Edited March 13, 2015 by JoeLing

[tullynagardy]

I don't know why but the words ' do a runner mate' keeps coming to minds over and over again...

I`m sure he will do, just like the Scandanavian guy who stabbed another farrang in Pattaya a year back. The Thai/Cambodian border has countless places where you can freely avoid checks and get into Cambodia.

Pretty sure Australia wouldn`t extradite him either.

Hard to know whos in the wrong here. Whilst I dont doubt the Thai guys surrounded him like a pack of dogs carrying a knife is asking for trouble.

[RigPig]

What is there to talk? A murder suspect could be bailed? I begin to like the Indonesian Law.

Definitely wrong, it cost him 500,000 Baht, a Thai would have only paid 500 Baht and been released the same night.

Innocent until proven guilty comes to mind. He had to be charged (regardless of the evidence in the video showing he only defended himself) so that he can be found innocent, it´s how the law works.

It isn´t like he machine gunned a class room of students or videoed himself cutting someones head off is it?

[Shot]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

What would you do my friend, in all damn seriousness. Would you pull out a knife and stab someone....if you would, you are no better than all of the pommy, aussie, russian drunken thugs we read about.....is that what you would do at home....i think not....but if thats your gig, why dont you arm yourself with a knife, and go and piss off a thai doorman doing his job......see you in the big house monkey guts.....i have no pity for fools such as yourself.

And what would you do, if you were being beat by a pack of thugs and feared for your life? Lay down and die, or fight?

Did you see the video?

I asked you a few simple questions, and you reply with insults. Brilliant......not

[RigPig]

Sounds to me like self defense. He will walk. This will teach bouncers a lesson for the future.

Thats bullsuger mate, he killed a person. HE KILLED A PERSON, wether or not you people class Thai people as persons, I am sorry, I do. My wife is Thai, my sister in laws are thai, and my brother in law, and inlaws are, Thai. Dont you understand????? He didnt kill a Thai. He killed a brother, an uncle, a son, a friend, a PERSON!!!!!!! and he had no right to take that life.....Not at all.

So because he saw something (probably unjust) happening and was willing to do something (that Thais do everyday) and make a difference in an attempt to uphold justice nd fairness to people who were probably visitors to this country he should be willing to just get the life kicked out of him by brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws and anyone else who wants to participate without defending himself. Have you stopped tothink who actually escalated this in the first place? It was the brothers, uncles, husbands, brother in laws you speak about so fondly!! How can you possibly defend 6 cowardly and much younger men intent on causing someone grievous bodily harm or possibly death and at the same time critisize a man for not allowing it to happen by defending himself with a glorified bottle opener?

I hope you one day have the guts to help justice and fairness prevail and that you are lucky enough not to find yourself in this mans predicament.

This man was not a person but an animal on a rampage intent on causing harm to a man over twice his age all because he saw injustice and decided to do something about it (video it)!! It happened on a public street, the doors were not closed to Tai Pan and he was clearly not on the premises.

RigPig, you may have been here too long, unless you are Thai already. You are right it is bad when someone gets killed. But in some places we have a saying "If you don't start something there won't be something". The man was within his legal rights to video a possibly illegal act being performed.

I don understand your reply (sorry) I agree with you Mark was within his rights and the man (the Thai guard) was the one with his friends who was starting something.....

[Emster23]

Interesting if others in pack say he was in bar, as they are perjuring themselves and nothing they say should be believed. How about arresting them too? Unless he almost immediately stabbed the man, but rather stabbed the guard when he was being chased by 4-5 of them away from place of business they were hired to secure, clearly self defense.

I would hardly call that little knife an offensive weapon. Enough to make sane person back off, but hardly the sword that taxi driver used to slice tourist in BKK. And not that hard to beat to death or cripple an older man when set upon by gang of 4-5 young fairly fit men. Why was he charged at all? Shouldn't DA or grand jury look at evidence? Oh, but this is a farang....

Police perhaps suggesting he get the flu and go to Singapore for treatment?

[Si Thea01]

I know these laws do not apply in Thailand but for an insight into the way someone is charged with murder the following must be proved in Australia. (NSW)

Murder, as defined by s 18(1)(a) Crimes Act 1900, is made out where a voluntary act or omission of the accused causes the death of the deceased and the act is committed with:

1.

an intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, or

2.

an intent to kill, or

3.

reckless indifference to human life, or

4.

committed by the accused or some accomplice with him or her in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission of, an offence punishable by at least 25 years imprisonment (constructive murder).

As I was not present or do not know what evidence police have, then I would never say never until I became aware of all the circumstances. However, the hardest aspect to prove is the intent, so unless one knows what, if any admissions, the alleged murderer made, no one can say, with conviction, that it was self defence.

There are additional issues that commonly arise in murder trails.

Voluntary act of the accused.

• Causation

• Intoxication

• Self-defence and excessive self-defence

• Provocation

• Substantial impairment by abnormality of mind

In so far as self defence, it s the responsibility of the prosecution, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person did not carry out the conduct in self defence.

Thailand law defines murder as the unlawful killing of a person usually committed with intent and malice, so it would be assumed that police must prove he committed the act in this manner.

Apparently, the Thai penal code relates to murder under section 288 and the penalty, if convicted, is death, or a term of imprisonment from 15 to 20 years.

Under section 290 the following applies. Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.

With Thai law, murder is murder and yes there is self defence, justifiable and unjustifiable, so again, unless one knows all the circumstances and what evidence has been obtained, then one should not proffer reasons for this person to be charged with or not charged with murder or self defence.. Self defence may come into play but we will all have to wait and see. I have read some stories on line which allege the expat also slashed the face of the deceased during the melee. If this is true then an argument for justifiable self defence, in my opinion, would go out the door.

Many say that to carry a knife is ok as it can be used for many other things. Granted, but why, when a life is lost through a stabbing, this argument is always brought into play. All I can say that any one who carries any type of knife while out socially or even for protection is a fool, anyone who uses it in a fight is an absolute idiot.

So all you armchair detectives please relax and wait until the full circumstances are known before offering you knowledge to us laymen.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Si Thea01

[JoeLing]

Interesting if others in pack say he was in bar, as they are perjuring themselves and nothing they say should be believed. How about arresting them too? Unless he almost immediately stabbed the man, but rather stabbed the guard when he was being chased by 4-5 of them away from place of business they were hired to secure, clearly self defense.

I would hardly call that little knife an offensive weapon. Enough to make sane person back off, but hardly the sword that taxi driver used to slice tourist in BKK. And not that hard to beat to death or cripple an older man when set upon by gang of 4-5 young fairly fit men. Why was he charged at all? Shouldn't DA or grand jury look at evidence? Oh, but this is a farang....

Police perhaps suggesting he get the flu and go to Singapore for treatment?

I see, quite a few people have a problem understanding

the difference between being accused, being charged or

being convicted.

[maidee]

if mister ferrari boy can be high like a kite and kill a cop, and drag him 100 meter or more till his driveway and till not still not in prison, why would this old geezer spend one day in jail for defending himself against a pack of dogs?

[JoeLing]

I know these laws do not apply in Thailand but for an insight into the way someone is charged with murder the following must be proved in Australia. (NSW)

Murder, as defined by s 18(1)(a) Crimes Act 1900, is made out where a voluntary act or omission of the accused causes the death of the deceased and the act is committed with:

1.

an intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, or

2.

an intent to kill, or

3.

reckless indifference to human life, or

4.

committed by the accused or some accomplice with him or her in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission of, an offence punishable by at least 25 years imprisonment (constructive murder).

As I was not present or do not know what evidence police have, then I would never say never until I became aware of all the circumstances. However, the hardest aspect to prove is the intent, so unless one knows what, if any admissions, the alleged murderer made, no one can say, with conviction, that it was self defence.

There are additional issues that commonly arise in murder trails.

Voluntary act of the accused.

• Causation

• Intoxication

• Self-defence and excessive self-defence

• Provocation

• Substantial impairment by abnormality of mind

In so far as self defence, it s the responsibility of the prosecution, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person did not carry out the conduct in self defence.

Thailand law defines murder as the unlawful killing of a person usually committed with intent and malice, so it would be assumed that police must prove he committed the act in this manner.

Apparently, the Thai penal code relates to murder under section 288 and the penalty, if convicted, is death, or a term of imprisonment from 15 to 20 years.

Under section 290 the following applies. Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.

With Thai law, murder is murder and yes there is self defence, justifiable and unjustifiable, so again, unless one knows all the circumstances and what evidence has been obtained, then one should not proffer reasons for this person to be charged with or not charged with murder or self defence.. Self defence may come into play but we will all have to wait and see. I have read some stories on line which allege the expat also slashed the face of the deceased during the melee. If this is true then an argument for justifiable self defence, in my opinion, would go out the door.

Many say that to carry a knife is ok as it can be used for many other things. Granted, but why, when a life is lost through a stabbing, this argument is always brought into play. All I can say that any one who carries any type of knife while out socially or even for protection is a fool, anyone who uses it in a fight is an absolute idiot.

So all you armchair detectives please relax and wait until the full circumstances are known before offering you knowledge to us laymen.

I just checked and can confirm, Thailand is still a sovereign country,

not part of Australia, USA, UK or any other country. So whatever

law there might be in your country is absolute, completely irrelevant

unless of course, one wants to migrate to Australia, USA, UK or any

other country.

So just hope we don't get detailed inside views of the penal codes

of the other 195 or so countries in this thread

Edited March 13, 2015 by JoeLing

[RigPig]

I know these laws do not apply in Thailand but for an insight into the way someone is charged with murder the following must be proved in Australia. (NSW)

Murder, as defined by s 18(1)(a) Crimes Act 1900, is made out where a voluntary act or omission of the accused causes the death of the deceased and the act is committed with:

1.

an intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, or

2.

an intent to kill, or

3.

reckless indifference to human life, or

4.

committed by the accused or some accomplice with him or her in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission of, an offence punishable by at least 25 years imprisonment (constructive murder).

As I was not present or do not know what evidence police have, then I would never say never until I became aware of all the circumstances. However, the hardest aspect to prove is the intent, so unless one knows what, if any admissions, the alleged murderer made, no one can say, with conviction, that it was self defence.

There are additional issues that commonly arise in murder trails.

Voluntary act of the accused.

• Causation

• Intoxication

• Self-defence and excessive self-defence

• Provocation

• Substantial impairment by abnormality of mind

In so far as self defence, it s the responsibility of the prosecution, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person did not carry out the conduct in self defence.

Thailand law defines murder as the unlawful killing of a person usually committed with intent and malice, so it would be assumed that police must prove he committed the act in this manner.

Apparently, the Thai penal code relates to murder under section 288 and the penalty, if convicted, is death, or a term of imprisonment from 15 to 20 years.

Under section 290 the following applies. Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.

With Thai law, murder is murder and yes there is self defence, justifiable and unjustifiable, so again, unless one knows all the circumstances and what evidence has been obtained, then one should not proffer reasons for this person to be charged with or not charged with murder or self defence.. Self defence may come into play but we will all have to wait and see. I have read some stories on line which allege the expat also slashed the face of the deceased during the melee. If this is true then an argument for justifiable self defence, in my opinion, would go out the door.

Many say that to carry a knife is ok as it can be used for many other things. Granted, but why, when a life is lost through a stabbing, this argument is always brought into play. All I can say that any one who carries any type of knife while out socially or even for protection is a fool, anyone who uses it in a fight is an absolute idiot.

So all you armchair detectives please relax and wait until the full circumstances are known before offering you knowledge to us laymen.

¨Many say that to carry a knife is ok as it can be used for many other things. Granted, but why, when a life is lost through a stabbing, this argument is always brought into play. All I can say that any one who carries any type of knife while out socially or even for protection is a fool, anyone who uses it in a fight is an absolute idiot.¨

or dead himself (at the least suffer great harm).......

[Thomas33399]

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That is what you get for carrying a knife and waving it instead of legging it.

The CCTV footage shows him trying to leave but was chased down by the security guard and then others came running to join in.

It could be possible that he was the victim of thugs masquerading as security guards. The venue owners like this style of protection. This happens at many venues around the world. Also many security guards are the victims of attacks by drunken hoodlums. Where is this footage?