Thaksin and Pheu Thai Party face constitutional showdown

[Anthony5]

Do you have any link to a page of Mastercard which shows that footnote ?

Nope. I'm only going back in my memory files about the class action suit in the US over undisclosed foreign transaction fees. Now, in the US, such fees have to be disclosed, to include any passed-on network (Visa/MC) fees. Maybe in the "old world" such is not the case.

Agree with Pib -- go use you MC card in a local transaction. Then look at the results. How hard can that be?

The tariff list from my bank clearly states that there will be a fee of 1.5% with such a transaction, so I have no need to waste the money to try it out.

I also assume that it would be clearly marked on my statement, since I already posted that there is a tab therefor on the excel file which is empty, And last but not least, I am sure that my bank would have pointed me to that rule if it was in their tariff list, since they were quickly to point out that the exchange rate I had in mind was not correct.

Why would they clearly note a fee for retail sales in their tariff list, but hide it for other transaction?

Further on the shortage is not 1.5%, in some cases it isn't also exactly 1%, so you think they would be selective about how much the fee is for different transactions?

Edited March 20, 2015 by Anthony5

[Anthony5]

Typically the Visa/Mastercard foriegn transaciton/currency conversion fee ranges from 0.15% to 1% (Visa) and 0.2 to 1% (Mastercard)...I read those charges at their sites before...what fee applies depends on the contract arrangement between Visa/Mastercard and the card-issuing bank. But for this discussion let's say it 1%. Visa/Mastercard pass this fee to the card-issuing bank vs the customer but then it's up to the bank if they absorb that fee or pass it along to the customer as a foreign transaction fee. Some credit/debit cards like many of the U.S. Capital One credit cards, Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards, Schwab debit card, etc., "absorb" the fee and do not pass the fee along---these are true no foreign transaction fee cards. Now if your card-issuing bank is say charging a 1.5% fee, they are basically passing along the Visa/Mastercard 1% fee and adding on 0.5% for pure profit.

And some banks may get tricky with their working about how the Visa/Mastercard fee is applied...like unless something has changed with Capital One and ING merged the Capital One Bank debit card, a Mastercard, which use to be a true no foreign transaction fee (completely absorbed the Mastercard fee which was around 0.2% in CapOne's case) started passing along the 0.2% fee while still advertising their card as a no foreign transaction fee but explaining there may be a small Mastercard exchange currency conversion fee but would not define the exact rate of the fee.

Below is the Visa page link/partial quote talking their fee...notice where it say Visa does not charge the customer....instead they pass the fee to the bank and it's up to the bank if they absorb or pass along that fee. I might look for the Mastercard page tonight that I saw before but I need to drive to Nakhon Pathom in a few minutes.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rates-faq.jsp

What is Visa's fee structure for international transactions?

Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system.

The fees are paid by financial institutions on transactions that require the use of our global infrastructure. Since Visa does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants, we have no involvement in financial institution pricing to cardholders or merchants. If financial institutions or merchants decide to assess a foreign transaction fee to their customers, they are required to provide details to their cardholders and consumers.

As part of Visa's international functionality, Visa has offered international processing services to its financial institutions for more than twenty years. Over the years, Visa has become a symbol of international acceptance, and Visa views its global support services as paramount to providing its cardholders with superior value and benefits.

If there was a certain fee, I'm sure my banks customer relations would have had no issues to tell me that they use the mastercard exchange rate minus a specific percentage, as they would be obligated to have that fee mentioned in their tariff list.

So far 5 emails have been exchanged with my bank regarding this matter, and they have in the last email clearly pointed out that they have no idea where the difference occurs.

I wonder why some posters are so apologetic for an organisation that has a history of robbing it's customers for as long as it exists, and want to ridicule my claims.

Several years ago my bank used Visa CC, but they changed to Mastercard because of the fees.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Anthony5

[Pib]

As suggested earlier several times just go make a local

purchase with your credit card like at big c or lotus. Just ensure it's not a DCC transaction. Then whatever percentage the exchange is below the Mastercard rate is purely the Mastercard fee and/or your bank not absorbing that fee and even possibly adding on to the fee. Regardless, it's your bank's responsibility to show and explain the fees on your account--whether it's the Mastercard fee and/or the bank's possible additive fee. Go make a local purchase.

[Anthony5]

As suggested earlier several times just go make a local

purchase with your credit card like at big c or lotus. Just ensure it's not a DCC transaction. Then whatever percentage the exchange is below the Mastercard rate is purely the Mastercard fee and/or your bank not absorbing that fee and even possibly adding on to the fee. Regardless, it's your bank's responsibility to show and explain the fees on your account--whether it's the Mastercard fee and/or the bank's possible additive fee. Go make a local purchase.

Making a local purchase proofs nothing,nada, zilch.

It is announced by my bank that they charge a 1.5% fee on local purchases.

If the exchange rate is lower than the rate published on the Mastercard site minus 1.5%, then we are just as far as now, meaning still don't know where the difference comes from.

If the rate is exactly that, the Mastercard rate minus 1.5%, that would mean Mastercard only sometimes charges a fee on the exchange rate and an not in some other cases, which is highly doubtful.

The exchange rate om the Mastercard site is a fixed rate free to view for all. If there would be a fee, it would also be a fixed percentage, not something they make up as they go.

Looking at the rates on the Mastercard site, and the rate on my statements, it shows that the shortage each time is not an identical percentage.

I also think I have no obligation to go to such extend as making local purchases to find out something which my bank is obligated to show in their tariff pages, or at least inform me about when asked about.

The fact that they can't give me an answer means that they are doing something illegal and are trying to hide it.

My complaint is now with the ombudsman from the bank, as I'm obliged to, and if he gives me an unsatisfying answer, as I'm prepared for as they are in bed together, or doesn't answer me in 30 days I can forward it to the national ombudsman.

My experience in the past is that I then will be refunded within 14 days.

[Pib]

OK..up to you how you want to research and work your issue...just passing along info and suggestions. Good luck.

[Anthony5]

OK..up to you how you want to research and work your issue...just passing along info and suggestions. Good luck.

I don't need to do research to work my issue, my bank is legally obliged to give me an explanation for the difference, and the national ombudsman will make that clear to them.

I will be back here in about 45 days from now, as I know from past experience that the bank ombudsman will wait till the 29th day to tell me that he can not resolve anything, after which I can contact the national ombudsman.

This last organisation will get the answers from the bank, or will give them their answers, and will also decide if it is legal or not.

[JimGant]

My complaint to the national ombudsman for financial conflicts will be filed today.

This is the 7th time, from which 3 cases concerning this same bank, I file a complaint with the ombudsman, and each previous case has been ruled in my favor, but it seems that they don't want to learn..

How do you say in Dutch, "Oh God, here comes Tony again!!"

Did you ever consider another bank, say, after you filed your third complaint? Or, how about now, after filing the fourth complaint.....

Anyway, I like the idea of an ombudsman. Sounds a lot more efficient than a priest.

[JimGant]

Making a local purchase proofs nothing,nada, zilch.

It is announced by my bank that they charge a 1.5% fee on local purchases.

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun if all the fees added up to 2.5%?

Pretty stubborn guy. Have those wooden shoes gotten too tight?

[Anthony5]

My complaint to the national ombudsman for financial conflicts will be filed today.

This is the 7th time, from which 3 cases concerning this same bank, I file a complaint with the ombudsman, and each previous case has been ruled in my favor, but it seems that they don't want to learn..

How do you say in Dutch, "Oh God, here comes Tony again!!"

Did you ever consider another bank, say, after you filed your third complaint? Or, how about now, after filing the fourth complaint.....

Anyway, I like the idea of an ombudsman. Sounds a lot more efficient than a priest.

Well the claims against against Argenta have all been minor claims to be honest, and Argenta is good because they have a lot of free services for which other banks charge.

Other banks like Deutsche bank, Banque General Luxembourg, and former Krediet bank involved more money, one of them almost half a million Baht. All of them ignored my requests and objections, and claimed that they had done nothing wrong.

Once the ombudsman stepped in they were quick to refund.

So honestly, do you think if I changed bank, it would make any difference for the future?

Banks are simply criminal organisations, but the average customer isn't aware when they are cheated with a wrong exchange rate or a false interest calculation.

[Anthony5]

Making a local purchase proofs nothing,nada, zilch.

It is announced by my bank that they charge a 1.5% fee on local purchases.

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun if all the fees added up to 2.5%?

Pretty stubborn guy. Have those wooden shoes gotten too tight?

Please enlighten me why I am stubborn. Because I don't agree that my bank charges fees they don't announce? Stubborn is he who agrees without voicing his discontent.

Keep an eye on this thread in about 45 days, when I will post the decision of the ombudsman, who orders the bank to compensate me for the illegal applied charges.

By the way you have blown your credibility in this thread already, when you started to claim that Mastercard had a small footnote that they charged 1% foreign transaction fee, but failed to post a link to such a footnote.

Then, in the footnoted, unreadable print: "MasterCard charges a 1% foreign transaction fee, which is included in your charge."

Edited March 20, 2015 by Anthony5

[JimGant]

By the way you have blown your credibility in this thread already, when you started to claim that Mastercard had a small footnote that they charged 1% foreign transaction fee, but failed to post a link to such a footnote.

No, that wasn't a reference to a MasterCard footnote. That was a reference to US issuing banks' footnotes, whereby full disclosure of all fees is required, including passed-on network fees. However, some banks like to crow that they have no foreign transaction fees (literally true), but leave it up to the consumer to discern the small print about passed-on network fees. My point was to suggest maybe your bank has a small footnote somewhere -- if, indeed, it's even required to mention network fees it doesn't absorb.

On 13/03 Thai Baht was exchanged at 33.86 against the Euro, while XE learns me that during that day the exchange floated between 34.50 and 34.92

What does that have to do with your on-line shopping discrepancies? Did you buy something on-line in baht? (You've already said you only use this MC for on-line shopping.) MC rate for 13/03 was 34.148. Just curious where that 33.86 figure came from (?). Thanks.

[Anthony5]

By the way you have blown your credibility in this thread already, when you started to claim that Mastercard had a small footnote that they charged 1% foreign transaction fee, but failed to post a link to such a footnote.

No, that wasn't a reference to a MasterCard footnote. That was a reference to US issuing banks' footnotes, whereby full disclosure of all fees is required, including passed-on network fees. However, some banks like to crow that they have no foreign transaction fees (literally true), but leave it up to the consumer to discern the small print about passed-on network fees. My point was to suggest maybe your bank has a small footnote somewhere -- if, indeed, it's even required to mention network fees it doesn't absorb.

On 13/03 Thai Baht was exchanged at 33.86 against the Euro, while XE learns me that during that day the exchange floated between 34.50 and 34.92

What does that have to do with your on-line shopping discrepancies? Did you buy something on-line in baht? (You've already said you only use this MC for on-line shopping.) MC rate for 13/03 was 34.148. Just curious where that 33.86 figure came from (?). Thanks.

If you buy Line credit it are packages quoted in Thai Baht. The 33.86 figure was the rate that showed on my CC statement.

Why do you think that European banks are not required to full disclosure of all fees? Even if they aren't, don't you think they would have informed me about the fee when I asked them repeatedly, and informed that I would take it further if I didn't get a satisfying answer. Or do you think my bank is a masochist who loves to receive official requests for cooperation?

Edited March 20, 2015 by Anthony5