Netanyahu win dashes prospect for a thaw with Obama

[ggold]

Watch: Senator Rubio Rips Obama's 'Historic Mistake' on Israel

[zydeco]

Welcome to the thread champ. Read post #106. A veto proof bipartisan 360 members of Congress has written a letter to Iran waiving off anything Obama might do. They said that they would do the deciding.

Looks like your Dems have thrown your lame duck under the bus because they'd like to get reelected.

After all of the moaning about 44 Repubs writing a letter, now over 300 more in bipartisan fashion have done the same.

Even your Dems can now see what Obama is. Why can't you?

Cheers.

Not referring to anyone in particular, of course, but the sort of people who are now flooding social media and message boards about this fit very firmly into one of two categories. First, there is the anarcho-capitalist libertarians who finally see their big chance to "unmask" the vast international Jewish banker conspiracy. Second, there are the Leftist fanatics who have allied themselves with the likes of the PLO and their successors since the 1960s. This is their big chance to dress up their dreams of crushing a strong American ally. With the Left, it's mainly about the US losing face.

fit very firmly into one of two categories.

Which only serves to remind us there are two categories of people in the world, those who dichotomize and those who don't.

Then there are those such as Bibi Netanyahu who dichotomize, personalize, JohnKerryize.

Bibi was against it before he wuz for it and spoke for it before he declared he is against it before he said he's always been for it.

Rebuffs, "anarcho-capitalist libertarians" and also the "Leftist fanatics" notwithstanding.

And here we have the fallacy of essences, as David Hackett Fischer described it in 1970.

[Scott]

A post containing a racial slur has been removed.

[dexterm]

Watch: Senator Rubio Rips Obama's 'Historic Mistake' on Israel

I thought Rubio's video was nonsense, full of the usual myths and Israeli spam. I started making notes to refute it point by point, but it was turning into a book.

I will just give you his first lie in the opening minutes: "Israel is America's most loyal ally".

In fact Israel has a long history of disloyalty to the USA. The latest being Netanyahu trying to undermine Pres Obama's foreign policy.

The USA would be respected far more highly in the world if successive administrations had not turned a blind eye to Israel's violation of human rights.

Edited March 20, 2015 by dexterm

[SheungWan]

If Israel doesn't care about what the U.S. thinks then don't accept any money from them and don't cry about it when the U.S. refuses to veto in the UNITED on Isael's behalf.

We will then hear Israel bleating.

Israel is a very dangerous nation and are top of the list to start WW3.

America supports Israel because a HUGE number of Americans - Christians and Jews alike heavily back Israel. American politicians are enough in tune with this to understand the political consequences of not supporting Israel.... Representative government under Democratic principles works that way.

Conservative hardline rightwingers hate muslims. In secret they often dont like jews either. Its just that they dislike muslims more than they dislike jews.

Are jews popular to invite for membership in VIP Mens Country/Golf Clubs with rich white christian people in USA?

Give me a honest answer.

Re: ". Its just that they dislike muslims more than they dislike jews."

....whereas with fake left contributors its 'er...... vice versa. Not honest but nevertheless transparent.

[SheungWan]

Watch: Senator Rubio Rips Obama's 'Historic Mistake' on Israel

I thought Rubio's video was nonsense, full of the usual myths and Israeli spam. I started making notes to refute it point by point, but it was turning into a book.

I will just give you his first lie in the opening minutes: "Israel is America's most loyal ally".

In fact Israel has a long history of disloyalty to the USA. The latest being Netanyahu trying to undermine Pres Obama's foreign policy.

The USA would be respected far more highly in the world if successive administrations had not turned a blind eye to Israel's violation of human rights.

Loyalty to the USA is not synonymous with loyalty to President Obama who seems quite adept at undermining US foreign policy without much assistance at all.

[SheungWan]

What amuses me is all this anti-Jewish/anti-Israel drivel being used against the only country in the Middle East that has the temerity to hold open elections for their leadership.

It would appear many members of this forum prefer Islamic theocracies to a free nation choosing their own path.

Now the rants will become louder. Get after it.

Im against Islamic dictatorship in Iran, Im against the dictator kings/sheiks/whatever in the US allied countries and the discrimination in Israel were you get rights depending on religion, thats borderline religious dictatorship. That also includes Israels what Israel do to the West Bank, Im against the West Bank-apartheid.

Israel annoys cause it gets away with everything because of unquestioned non-stop vetos from USA.

Im from Sweden, my country cut the cooperation with Saudi as a matter of principle some week ago and Swedwen is the first country in EU to recognize Palestine.

So, you are against Iran but support movements which are directed, armed and are financed by Iran. Typical Sweden some might say.

[BKKBobby]

What amuses me is all this anti-Jewish/anti-Israel drivel being used against the only country in the Middle East that has the temerity to hold open elections for their leadership.

It would appear many members of this forum prefer Islamic theocracies to a free nation choosing their own path.

Now the rants will become louder. Get after it.

Im against Islamic dictatorship in Iran, Im against the dictator kings/sheiks/whatever in the US allied countries and the discrimination in Israel were you get rights depending on religion, thats borderline religious dictatorship. That also includes Israels what Israel do to the West Bank, Im against the West Bank-apartheid.

Israel annoys cause it gets away with everything because of unquestioned non-stop vetos from USA.

Im from Sweden, my country cut the cooperation with Saudi as a matter of principle some week ago and Swedwen is the first country in EU to recognize Palestine.

So, you are against Iran but support movements which are directed, armed and are financed by Iran. Typical Sweden some might say.

Im against the Islamic dictatorship in Iran.

Hezbollah defended Lebanon 2006. Lebanon was successful in defending and resisting the aggessive mayhem being commited by Israel. Obviously Israel won if you count destroyed infrastruture, buildings, wounded and dead humans.

Hezbollah is an effective resistance and the only group in Lebanon that could organize and cooperate as a group, and were able to put up a fight 2006. Iran is instrumental in the making of and continuing Hezbollah support. Nothing to deny.

Hezbollah thanked Iran as soon as the war ended on TV in what probably was the first speech.

So its true indeed.

Well some group (Hezbollah) had to resist the unproportional aggression of Israel against Lebanon 2006.

I dont like the Iranian regime/government or forcing religious practices on people.

Somethings the Iranian regime do might be ok or good as helping out fighting ISIS. No matter if its because of national interests.

Edited March 21, 2015 by BKKBobby

[ScarpoFongness4U]

THERE IS no polite way to say this, but Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the most repellent and dangerous politicians in the world today.

He is a man who trades on fear and war, a cynical and amoral manipulator without a trace of honesty in his entire body, who lies as easily as he breathes.

In 2012 he warned the United Nations that Iran was a year away from manufacturing a bomb, even though his own security services had told him something entirely different,

Last year he deliberately used the murders of three Israeli teenagers to manipulate Israeli public opinion into supporting the ferocious and strategically meaningless slaughter in Gaza.

He also manipulates his most powerful ally. In public Netanyahu never ceases to express his love and gratitude to the United States, which props up Israels military machine.

Yet in private hes not always so respectful. Back in 2001 he told a group of settlers in the West Bank I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction.

Netanyahu cannot be ignored entirely, not as long as Israelis are crazy enough to keep voting for him. But no country with any respect for truth or even its own national interest would actually invite a man like this to speak to its own elected representatives if it didnt have to, let alone invite him in order to undermine the policy of its elected president.

Iran was a year away, until Israel fed their computers the Stuxnet virus and set them back 3 years, and, killed many of their top scientists

[ScarpoFongness4U]

What amuses me is all this anti-Jewish/anti-Israel drivel being used against the only country in the Middle East that has the temerity to hold open elections for their leadership.

It would appear many members of this forum prefer Islamic theocracies to a free nation choosing their own path.

Now the rants will become louder. Get after it.

Im against Islamic dictatorship in Iran, Im against the dictator kings/sheiks/whatever in the US allied countries and the discrimination in Israel were you get rights depending on religion, thats borderline religious dictatorship. That also includes Israels what Israel do to the West Bank, Im against the West Bank-apartheid.

Israel annoys cause it gets away with everything because of unquestioned non-stop vetos from USA.

Im from Sweden, my country cut the cooperation with Saudi as a matter of principle some week ago and Swedwen is the first country in EU to recognize Palestine.

So, you are against Iran but support movements which are directed, armed and are financed by Iran. Typical Sweden some might say.

Im against the Islamic dictatorship in Iran.

Hezbollah defended Lebanon 2006. Lebanon was successful in defending and resisting the aggessive mayhem being commited by Israel. Obviously Israel won if you count destroyed infrastruture, buildings, wounded and dead humans.

Hezbollah is an effective resistance and the only group in Lebanon that could organize and cooperate as a group, and were able to put up a fight 2006. Iran is instrumental in the making of and continuing Hezbollah support. Nothing to deny.

Hezbollah thanked Iran as soon as the war ended on TV in what probably was the first speech.

So its true indeed.

Well some group (Hezbollah) had to resist the unproportional aggression of Israel against Lebanon 2006.

I dont like the Iranian regime/government or forcing religious practices on people.

Somethings the Iranian regime do might be ok or good as helping out fighting ISIS. No matter if its because of national interests.

Hezbollah has been decimated in the Syria theater

Their losses so great that Iran has been importing fighters from Pakistan which are also bring slaughtered

Iran is experiencing a Vietnam like stalemate and can't even defeat IS in Tikrit,

How can they fight a modern army like Israel,?

Answer: they can't

Iran is getting its ass kicked all over the place and will likely see additional sanctions March 31,/when there is no nuke deal

[chuckd]

Not referring to anyone in particular, of course, but the sort of people who are now flooding social media and message boards about this fit very firmly into one of two categories. First, there is the anarcho-capitalist libertarians who finally see their big chance to "unmask" the vast international Jewish banker conspiracy. Second, there are the Leftist fanatics who have allied themselves with the likes of the PLO and their successors since the 1960s. This is their big chance to dress up their dreams of crushing a strong American ally. With the Left, it's mainly about the US losing face.

fit very firmly into one of two categories.

Which only serves to remind us there are two categories of people in the world, those who dichotomize and those who don't.

Then there are those such as Bibi Netanyahu who dichotomize, personalize, JohnKerryize.

Bibi was against it before he wuz for it and spoke for it before he declared he is against it before he said he's always been for it.

Rebuffs, "anarcho-capitalist libertarians" and also the "Leftist fanatics" notwithstanding.

PM Netanyahu changing opinions is hardly a new and unique experience coming from politicians. Politicians world wide are in constant flux with their emotions, depending on what is happening on the ground around them.

There are classic examples of flip flops being performed for political reasons.

Here is one such classic example. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/11/barack-obama/president-barack-obamas-shift-gay-marriage/

PM Netanyahu changing his mind is hardly earth shattering.

[Credo]

He could have at least waited a few days for his opinion to evolve.

[dexterm]

Not referring to anyone in particular, of course, but the sort of people who are now flooding social media and message boards about this fit very firmly into one of two categories. First, there is the anarcho-capitalist libertarians who finally see their big chance to "unmask" the vast international Jewish banker conspiracy. Second, there are the Leftist fanatics who have allied themselves with the likes of the PLO and their successors since the 1960s. This is their big chance to dress up their dreams of crushing a strong American ally. With the Left, it's mainly about the US losing face.

fit very firmly into one of two categories.

Which only serves to remind us there are two categories of people in the world, those who dichotomize and those who don't.

Then there are those such as Bibi Netanyahu who dichotomize, personalize, JohnKerryize.

Bibi was against it before he wuz for it and spoke for it before he declared he is against it before he said he's always been for it.

Rebuffs, "anarcho-capitalist libertarians" and also the "Leftist fanatics" notwithstanding.

PM Netanyahu changing opinions is hardly a new and unique experience coming from politicians. Politicians world wide are in constant flux with their emotions, depending on what is happening on the ground around them.

There are classic examples of flip flops being performed for political reasons.

Here is one such classic example. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/11/barack-obama/president-barack-obamas-shift-gay-marriage/

PM Netanyahu changing his mind is hardly earth shattering.

It is when it's a complete 180 deg turnaround from a 2 state to a 1 state solution undermining the peace process and everything Israel's biggest allies and trading partners, USA and EU, have been supporting and negotiating towards over the last 20 years.

It doesnt inspire much US confidence in the Israeli leadership's honesty and loyalty either.

[Chicog]

THERE IS no polite way to say this, but Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the most repellent and dangerous politicians in the world today.

He is a man who trades on fear and war, a cynical and amoral manipulator without a trace of honesty in his entire body, who lies as easily as he breathes.

In 2012 he warned the United Nations that Iran was a year away from manufacturing a bomb, even though his own security services had told him something entirely different,

Last year he deliberately used the murders of three Israeli teenagers to manipulate Israeli public opinion into supporting the ferocious and strategically meaningless slaughter in Gaza.

He also manipulates his most powerful ally. In public Netanyahu never ceases to express his love and gratitude to the United States, which props up Israels military machine.

Yet in private hes not always so respectful. Back in 2001 he told a group of settlers in the West Bank I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction.

Netanyahu cannot be ignored entirely, not as long as Israelis are crazy enough to keep voting for him. But no country with any respect for truth or even its own national interest would actually invite a man like this to speak to its own elected representatives if it didnt have to, let alone invite him in order to undermine the policy of its elected president.

Iran was a year away, until Israel fed their computers the Stuxnet virus and set them back 3 years, and, killed many of their top scientists

Complete tosh, and Mossad said so.

This was another Netanyahu lie.

[JDGRUEN]

White House Antagonism Toward Netanyahu Grows

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/world/middleeast/white-house-antagonism-toward-netanyahu-grows.html?_r=1

[chuckd]

What I am having problems with is...exactly how is what he said wrong?

This is what he said:

"“I think that anyone who is going to establish a Palestinian state today and evacuate lands is giving attack grounds to the radical Islam against the state of Israel. There is a real threat here that a left-wing government will join the international community and follow its orders.”

Now what is wrong with that? Is it not true?

[Chicog]

Better than the US following Israel's orders if you ask me.

[Asiantravel]

is this what they really feel in Washington?

War with Iran is probably our best option

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/war-with-iran-is-probably-our-best-option/2015/03/13/fb112eb0-c725-11e4-a199-6cb5e63819d2_story.html

[up-country_sinclair]

is this what they really feel in Washington?

For the Israel Firsters, without a doubt. And they populate Washington DC (and this forum) in alarming numbers.

They have no qualms with sacrificing members of the US military and untold billions of dollars in a war of choice that only Israel wants.

[Ulysses G.]

Only Israel wants to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons and ICBMs that can reach anywhere in the world? That is as delusional as the "Israel Firsters" nonsense. There is no such thing.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

What I am having problems with is...exactly how is what he said wrong?

This is what he said:

"“I think that anyone who is going to establish a Palestinian state today and evacuate lands is giving attack grounds to the radical Islam against the state of Israel. There is a real threat here that a left-wing government will join the international community and follow its orders.”

Now what is wrong with that? Is it not true?

The problem is that Netanyhau has moved the goal posts yet again.

One of the early requirements was recognition of the State of Israel as a precondition for a 2 state solution. Which Yasser Arafat did way back in 1993 and all the Arab countries have agreed to many times over since in return for a peace agreement.

Then Netanyahu started insisting on recognizing the Jewish state of Israel as a precondition....whatever that means??

He's doing the same thing again with this vague language, which he could claim disingenuously he is waiting to be fulfilled. Of course he could sit on that for decades saying there’s trouble in Iraq and Syria.

"evacuate lands"...to address Israel's security concerns for the first decade or so until trust is established Israel could insist on a demilitarized West Bank. They could even insist on a some sort of sole or combo Israeli/UN/US/EU peacekeeping force along the Jordan Valley.

Who is to say that radical Islam will take over in the new Palestine. Is he a prophet? He’s simply scaremongering..his forte. Part of an agreement could be free and fair internationally observed elections, such as Israel has. Israeli democracy doesn’t prevent radical Zionists and ultra orthodox Jewish parties winning seats does it?

“left wing government” ..what on earth is wrong with that? Half of Europe has left wing governments and early kibbutzniks were well and truly socialists.

However vague Netanyahu’s words that are now being revamped for international consumption seem to be, his electorate certainly had no doubt what he meant by “never a Palestinian state”, and his continued building of colonies in the West Bank makes that an inevitability, and gives lie to any other possible interpretation.

With peace, prosperity and full employment from constructing a state, the majority of West Bank Palestinians would not be interested in further belligerence with Israel. They just want a better future for their children...same as everyone else in the world. They would also form a useful buffer for Israel. What else could they do anyway if they did not have access to any heavy weaponry, while Israel maintains one of the most powerful armies in the world?

I am sure Obama can see through his baloney too. That is why he is rethinking his support for Israel.

I think it is time for the Palestinians to by pass him too, and go directly to international institutions and governments. Israel will eventually succumb to the pressure of isolation and sanctions.

What is encouraging is that a sizable minority did vote for a peace different from Natanyahu's interpretation. So there's hope for Israel yet.

Edited March 21, 2015 by dexterm

[AZBill]

Like America Israel just needs to endure this idiot for just a little longer then we can all forget about our 8 year national nightmare and get back to reality.

[ggold]

Watch: Senator Rubio Rips Obama's 'Historic Mistake' on Israel

I thought Rubio's video was nonsense, full of the usual myths and Israeli spam. I started making notes to refute it point by point, but it was turning into a book.

I will just give you his first lie in the opening minutes: "Israel is America's most loyal ally".

In fact Israel has a long history of disloyalty to the USA. The latest being Netanyahu trying to undermine Pres Obama's foreign policy.

The USA would be respected far more highly in the world if successive administrations had not turned a blind eye to Israel's violation of human rights.

If the USA has lost any respect it is from it's allies who do not agree with the idea that Iran should get close to having a bomb, those allies being Gulf states among others. For someone (Obama) who has been trying so hard to make a deal with the Iranians, He hasn't been having a lot of success.

I guess the Iranians can't get over how easy it is to pull the wool over the eyes of the great Satan. they have zero respect for Obama also.

The real question is can the USA repair the damage Obama has caused once he is gone.

So much for his slogan "yes we can" so far it has been "Oh no you can't".

Now that the French are also showing some resistance to any deal, I wonder how long before he slags them off for not bending to his will?

[Credo]

The point that is being missed is that every effort needs to be made to get a deal before there is a military option. I doubt that Obama will argue with the French over this issue. There are a number of nations looking to make a deal. If they don't then we have at least one, Israel, that may exercise the military option and I have a feeling that if they do, they will have backing.

[ggold]

The point that is being missed is that every effort needs to be made to get a deal before there is a military option. I doubt that Obama will argue with the French over this issue. There are a number of nations looking to make a deal. If they don't then we have at least one, Israel, that may exercise the military option and I have a feeling that if they do, they will have backing.

The point is military action should happen before Iran gets close to a bomb, if it happens at all!

[Credo]

And that is going to be a mess of epic proportions. Iran is not a small country.

If you think the area is unstable now, just think of what a military action is going to result in. There is ISIS to consider in this equation as well.

[ggold]

is this what they really feel in Washington?

For the Israel Firsters, without a doubt. And they populate Washington DC (and this forum) in alarming numbers.

They have no qualms with sacrificing members of the US military and untold billions of dollars in a war of choice that only Israel wants.

I would be really interested to know when Netanyahu said he wanted America to bomb Iran, or sacrifice US military personnel in a war with Iran? This is just another myth of the loony left Israel haters.

[ggold]

And that is going to be a mess of epic proportions. Iran is not a small country.

If you think the area is unstable now, just think of what a military action is going to result in. There is ISIS to consider in this equation as well.

Iran is going to be a far bigger problem than ISIS will ever be. The only reason they are fighting ISIS in Iraq is to control that country, they will do the same with Syria and Lebanon.

Then they will threaten the rest of the region. Saudi Arabia having given notice that if Iran gets the bomb then they will get one also. Obama is so twisted he is happy for the ME to start an arms race for the bomb.

Former CIA Director Gen. David Petraeus says the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant is not the biggest threat facing the United States in Iraq.

“In fact, I would argue that the foremost threat to Iraq’s long-term stability and the broader regional equilibrium is not the Islamic State; rather, it is Shiite militias, many backed by — and some guided by — Iran,” Petraeus said in written comments to The Washington Post’s Beirut bureau chief, Liz Sly.

The Iranian regime “is ultimately part of the problem, not the solution” to the region’s issues, Petraeus said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/petraeus-iraq-iran-islamic-state-116255.html#ixzz3V1dfQZBq

[up-country_sinclair]

is this what they really feel in Washington?

For the Israel Firsters, without a doubt. And they populate Washington DC (and this forum) in alarming numbers.

They have no qualms with sacrificing members of the US military and untold billions of dollars in a war of choice that only Israel wants.

I would be really interested to know when Netanyahu said he wanted America to bomb Iran, or sacrifice US military personnel in a war with Iran?

What?

That Israel wants the US to bomb the Iranian reactors is not a secret, and I'm literally SMH at the moment that you are apparently unaware of this. What, you expect Netanyahu to come out and say publicly, "I want the US to bomb Iran". Get real.

But Israel and the Israel Firsters in Washington DC (and on this forum) are more than willing to push the US into a war with Iran, but the war-weary American public is not.

[ggold]

is this what they really feel in Washington?

For the Israel Firsters, without a doubt. And they populate Washington DC (and this forum) in alarming numbers.

They have no qualms with sacrificing members of the US military and untold billions of dollars in a war of choice that only Israel wants.

I would be really interested to know when Netanyahu said he wanted America to bomb Iran, or sacrifice US military personnel in a war with Iran?

What?

That Israel wants the US to bomb the Iranian reactors is not a secret, and I'm literally SMH at the moment that you are apparently unaware of this. What, you expect Netanyahu to come out and say publicly, "I want the US to bomb Iran". Get real.

But Israel and the Israel Firsters in Washington DC (and on this forum) are more than willing to push the US into a war with Iran, but the war-weary American public is not.

I can just see Obama doing a complete about face and start bombing Iran. As if that would ever happen!

He is to busy making sure they get the bomb and control most of the ME through proxy militias.

Get Real