Thai former PM Yingluck to face trial over rice scheme: court

[kevvy]

I'M off to see the wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Dubai
I hear he is a whiz of a wiz, if ever a wiz there was
If ever, oh ever a wiz there was, The Wizard of Dubai is one because
Because, because, because, because, because
Because of the wonderful things he schemes
I'm off to see the wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Dubai

Edited March 19, 2015 by kevvy

[dukebowling]

I think its farcical that people are saying she is innocent of anything and everything. A policy which her government promoted, she personally chaired and which monetarily was a complete disaster with many many allegations (some proven and some in the legal process currently) of corruption. It is only right and just that she gets pulled for negligence.

The endless stream of lies and broken promises, the mismanagement on an almost laughable scale and the 500 billion bahjt black hole which can't be accounted for, as well as the piles of missing rice would be enough to put a person with a less influential person away for many years. So quite why she should avoid any scrutiny at all just because she is Thaksin's sister is outrageous. She should be under house arrest if she misses even 1 court date, the military have more guns than Thaksin's private army so they should grow a pair and ensure she has to stick around and face the music this time (unlike mr T).

Throw the whole damn library at her. No mercy. no sympathy

So what was illegal?

Edited March 19, 2015 by dukebowling

[kevvy]

I'M off to see the wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Dubai
I hear he is a whiz of a wiz, if ever a wiz there was
If ever, oh ever a wiz there was, The Wizard of Dubai is one because
Because, because, because, because, because
Because of the wonderful things he schemes
I'm off to see the wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Dubai

[HappyinNE]

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The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

So if you extend what your suggesting g'kid all past offenders should never be prosecuted or punished.

So that brings an obvious question: 'How can Thailand ever move forward if there continues to be a lack of respect for the law?'

By the way, I'm not so convinced of 'they still have a soft spot for her'.

Many of my university and business colleagues and personal friends have just the opposite view and want some punishment metered out (with fair trial and process of course).

It seems that I have a different set of personal friends and their view, which can not be expressed, is opposite. By the way, I believe they are the majority.

[rametindallas]

She is being tried for neglecting corruption that occurred under a scheme she was in charge of. Which she is probably guilty.

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven! Why not?? For her to be guilty in a normal court then the corruption would already have to be proven.

Why is this country so backward?

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven!

Maybe you should try harder to keep up with the news. Have you any examples where criminality is not prosecuted until all lower-level participants have been tried, exhausted all their appeals, and finally found guilty? You set the bar for prosecuting the former PM so high that she would never be prosecuted in her lifetime. Nice try, though.

The Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) Tuesday indicted former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and 20 others

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/809528-ex-minister-boonsong-20-others-indicted-over-rice-deals/

Why is this country so backward?

A person with integrity and morals would have asked that question while the corrupt Thaksin puppet government of Ms Yingluck was still in power and robbing the country blind. You, on the other hand, believe the country is backwards because they are prosecuting the former PM for her willful negligence in the service of her criminal mastermind brother. Why do you hate Thai people so much you want no prosecution of the main person who was supposed to protect them from criminals within and without the government?

[djjamie]

If convicted and given 10 years that will allow her 1 year for each broken promise to the farmers. 6 promises were made before the PDRC started protesting too.

Northern Farmers Network chairman Kittisak Rattanawaraha will be happy. He stated that most farmers in his network would never vote for Pheu Thai again.

Seems they will have no choice after this.

7% of the population won't be happy though. They are the ones that fly against all logic and stay silent when the voters and tax payers are held in contempt and when the people that are responsible for it are held accountable they start talking by stating "Why is this country so backwards". Unfortunately it is those same people that revel in violence to try to achieve their ends because they cannot articulate a logical rebuttal.

Well the majority were not respected 1 minute after elections in 2011 so it is now accountability time.

Lets hope the 7% don't come out against the peaceful majority again.

Edited March 19, 2015 by djjamie

[rametindallas]

Just out of curiosity. Did the scheme give the poor farmers a better standard of living? Begs the question because what i have read is she paid them double what they would have got at market prices. I have never read any reports of Suthep Thaugsuban giving the palm farmers double the market price when they where forced to sell it all to him at rock bottom prices which then made his palm oil refinery monopoly billions. Still i suppose it OK to lose money when it goes in the right pockets.

Links or you're trolling. I think you are trolling because there are no links to prove you allegation. In any case, this OP is about the PTP corruption. Let me know when you get some evidence to prosecute Mr. Thaugsuban as i wouldn't mind if he went to prison also.

[Johnsen]

My extended family got paid for the red shirt vote.

How that's fair n honest I shall never know. I told them they should ask for more n play yellow against red. Of course this went way over their heads.

[lasidaho]

Who cares why, if, how, and when. gives authorities reason to get the greedy corrupt family, to me shows strength for the people.

[alfalfa19]

Time for a very long shopping trip, methinks.

[scorecard]

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Yes, the poor farmers have historically always been exploited by the middlemen. That's why Yingluck allowed her scheme to be exploited by middlemen and cronies aligned with the Shin family, so that they could get a cut of the action. Now, Yingluck will let her middlemen mouthpiece lawyers state her case in a trial, where she will remain conspicuously silent (save for a completely vague opening statement saying she was acting on the people's desire to be exploited).

Middlemen were across the political spectrum. If you believe otherwise you need to do a little more research. Also do a search for palm oils scams in Thailand while you are at it just to balance the books a tad.

It doesn't balance the books at all.

All people, whatever gender, whatever political color etc etc., should face the music, and be taken through proper legal process and be punished as fits the crime .

[cookee68]

By the time this is all over she will already have a Dubai Citizenship, it will take that long, with more twists and turns than an old race car track,

[khaowong1]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

"she already has enough money." People who have "enough" money, never believe they have enough money.

[z42]

EX-PM Yingluck pleads for fair trial

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra said today that she expected to be given a fair trial and a chance to give her side of the story in her defence of the charge of dereliction of duty in connection with the rice pledging scheme.

Posting a message in her Facebook page after the Supreme Court’s criminal division for holders of political offices agreed to accept her case for consideration, Ms Yingluck insisted that she had performed her duty in honesty and in the service of the people who had voted her party into the office and in conformity with the Constitution, laws and regulations.

She claimed that the rice pledging scheme was the wish of the people and her government responded in kind to help out rice farmers who had always been exploited by the middlemen and who had never had a chance to dictate the prices of their own products.

The ex-premier did not show up at the Supreme Court today when it decided to accept her case for consideration.

As for the right to justice process, the ex-prime minister said she felt the rule of law had been missing in her case citing the ruling of the National Anti-Corruption Commission that there was no evidence of corruption against her or her consent for corruption, yet the NACC faulted her of dereliction of duty.

Insisting on her innocent, Ms Yingluck said she hoped she would have the right of access to justice process and would be given a fair chance to present her side of the story to the court.

More important, she said the trial must be fair, transparent and devoid of prejudice. She complained that she was not treated fairly since she was accused of failing in her duty and that she was a victim of political campaign to destroy her.

(Photo : facebook.com/Y.Shinawatra)

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/ex-pm-yingluck-pleads-for-fair-trial

-- Thai PBS 2015-03-19

she felt the rule of law had been missing in her case

hoped she would have the right of access to justice process and would be given a fair chance to present her side of the story to the court

the trial must be fair, transparent and devoid of prejudice.

she was not treated fairly since she was accused of failing in her duty and that she was a victim of political campaign to destroy her

She's sowing the seeds of doubt as to the fairness of the legal system. Does anyone believe she won't have access to the best lawyers, be given every leeway, and every opportunity to present her side of the story? This is such a high profile case that the courts are going to go out of their way to prove they are being fair to the former PM. She, on the other hand will continue to portray herself as a martyr who is being persecuted because of the government's hatred for her brother. Thaksin is a political weasel and she is, dutifully, playing along with his strategy. She has no guilt, no morals, and no responsibility except to self and family. Disgusting.

Pretty much took the words from my mouth with this. Her lack of respect for the law then and now is despicable at best. Not once has she offered a personal explanation to the public about what she did to right any wrongs in the scheme. And every time she has been called to give evidence or even just a personal account she has never showed up and given an honest assessment that hasn't been pre scripted by spin doctors or sent in some lackey lawyer to spin the next set of lies.

It's embarrasing. I hope the junta show no mercy. If she is guilty and its proven how could she possibly be given bail to appeal. Surely the time to give all evidence in a defence is now while she is free. Not later when she is convicted and her lackeys are scrambling for a get out of jail for 10 million baht card

[ResandePohm]

She is being tried for neglecting corruption that occurred under a scheme she was in charge of. Which she is probably guilty.

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven! Why not?? For her to be guilty in a normal court then the corruption would already have to be proven.

Why is this country so backward?

Why do you persist with saying she is being charged with corruption. She is not.

She is being charged with dereliction of duty in that she mismanaged the rice scheme. Big difference.

It is important if Thailand is to move forward that an example is made of senior politicians who do not their jobs correctly to show they cannot just do as they like. Then perhaps in the future Politicians will think twice before being corrupt and cheating the people.

As for YS still being very popular in the NE I dont know where this comes from. I live in the NE and no small rice farmer benefited from the scheme. Not one Baht. I defy you to show me one that did. It was the big farmers and owners of the storage that made the money by cheating the system. Thankfully the Military is slowly getting through and charging them as well. So your statement that "not one case of corruption has been taken to court" is not true. You are deliberately lying in an attempt to support a totally incompetent PM. The poor in the NE do not want a corrupt government. They want a government that will help them and this rice scheme certainly did nothing for them. In fact it put many into financial jeopody, 19 of whom committed suicide. I can assure you that YS popularity has substantially diminished but we will never know by how much as, thankfully, she will never stand for government again.

If you really believe what you write you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[rubl]

'admit'? Why would I need to admit? Also if you agree it's impractical why do you suggest it?

Anyway, one needs to start somewhere and to start with the top which planned and directed makes sense. In parallel a campaign should be started to make people understand corruption is unacceptable, costing the country, holding her back.

It's like in other countries where the government uses strict law enforcement combined with media clips to 'guide' a society. Having been indoctrinated in the Netherlands I would still feel guilty and asocial when driving through Bangkok with a speed above 50km/h.

Because you are either serious about combating corruption or you are not, selective enforcement of political foes is not combating corruption, its selective enforcement based on political lines. And people are shocked that no one outside of Thailand believes the 2 year jail term on TS is anything but political.

Is he corrupt, of course he was, is he the first, middle or last of the corrupt, of course he is not, but yet he is the only one charged, along with his sister of course.....

So, should I invest in paper manufacturers as surely your suggestion will increase demand spectacular.

If you think that going after the master brains is selective, you seem to try to distract only. As we both agree going after millions of people is impractical. So one goes after those who order and control. Furthermore as I wrote you start campaigns to 'influence' the population's thoughts about corruption.

As for your reference to Thaksin, don't know why you feel you need to mention him. He's not involved in the RPPS, allegedly, as Ms. Yingluck stated in parliament she and only she was in charge.

Rubl, you know your post is completely irrelevant talking about paper manufacturer then have the brass neck to start talking about me bringing up TS.I am sure you don't (but you should) see the irony with me bringing up TS especially with you, given every single post you make.

Rubl can you honestly sit there and say that the charging for corruption and who they are going after is not selective? Please be honest.

Ah, so you don't agree with me and furthermore you fail to see how cynical it is that you bring up Thaksin. You try to distract from the topic and accuse others of being 'selective'?

With the 'self-financing' RPPS the largest crime of the previous government which even had the bloody cheek to push through a blanket amnesty bill which even covered their own two years in office, I think this is just justice. The country has been defrauded of 700++ billion Baht. There has been criminal intend to use tax payers money to reward the 'right' people for bringing in votes. That adds 'delayed vote buying' and 'corruption of people and laws'.

No, I don't see the charging of Ms. Yingluck as selective. She frequently and publicly defended her scheme and even had the gall to stand up in parliament and state that she and only she was in charge of her cabinet and government. Well, so be it.

[rubl]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

"she already has enough money." People who have "enough" money, never believe they have enough money.

Ms. Yingluck's big brother was too rich to need to be corrupt. Still he couldn't help himself, he still took care of his company while Prime Minister of Thailand.

Mind you, Ms' Yingluck most likely did not profit financially, at least not directly. More indirect by having the State finance her backers through the 700++ billion Baht lost in the RPPS. A new form of corruption maybe?

[gamini]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

Your uniformed opinion. Why are the courts not impartial and why should there be any political interference? She has committed a serious offense. It is a straightforward case.

[lapd]

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The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

So if you extend what your suggesting g'kid all past offenders should never be prosecuted or punished.

So that brings an obvious question: 'How can Thailand ever move forward if there continues to be a lack of respect for the law?'

By the way, I'm not so convinced of 'they still have a soft spot for her'.

Many of my university and business colleagues and personal friends have just the opposite view and want some punishment metered out (with fair trial and process of course).

It seems that I have a different set of personal friends and their view, which can not be expressed, is opposite. By the way, I believe they are the majority.

Yes, bargirls and most other lower class Thais believe what your 'friends' do.

Thailand is not a first world country. The poor people who I respect and represent a majority are none the less poorly educated and poorly informed. The yellow shirts are by western standards middle class but by Thai standards seen as elistist by poor Thais. It is true that a lot of the educated middle class Thais who represent the bulk of yellow shirts do tend to look down on the poor people red shirts. So there is plenty to critisize on all sides. That's just the way it is and one of the reasons Thailand has so much trouble embracing a working Democracy. Frankly, I think they should just keep things the way they are for the foreseeable future because Democracy in Thailand just doesn't seem to work very well.

Of course there is a danger that things could go too far the other way into a true military dictatorship so there needs to be checks and balances against that as well. The long term solution is better education imho. When a majority of the voting population only has a 6th grade education at best it's hard to have a working Democracy. The even bigger problem is poverty so we are back to 3rd world problems and there is no easy solution to that.

Edited March 19, 2015 by lapd

[z42]

I think its farcical that people are saying she is innocent of anything and everything. A policy which her government promoted, she personally chaired and which monetarily was a complete disaster with many many allegations (some proven and some in the legal process currently) of corruption. It is only right and just that she gets pulled for negligence.

The endless stream of lies and broken promises, the mismanagement on an almost laughable scale and the 500 billion bahjt black hole which can't be accounted for, as well as the piles of missing rice would be enough to put a person with a less influential person away for many years. So quite why she should avoid any scrutiny at all just because she is Thaksin's sister is outrageous. She should be under house arrest if she misses even 1 court date, the military have more guns than Thaksin's private army so they should grow a pair and ensure she has to stick around and face the music this time (unlike mr T).

Throw the whole damn library at her. No mercy. no sympathy

So what was illegal?

How about go find out yourself. It's called the internet my friend. Lots of information there for one who searches for it. Now get to it if you really want to know all the key points, deeds and misdeeds of this scheme

[spidermike007]

She nearly bankrupted the nation with a hair brained scheme to buy votes. There has to be a limit to what these political fools can get away with. I say give her the maximum penalty allowed by law. It sends a message that they are not immune and can be held responsible for their actions. That is healthy for society.

[JoeLing]

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

If she is found guilty, cut a deal with her, Have her reveal her brothers location and she will not go to prison for 10 years. Once she gives the location, The Thai Army sends a helicopter with special forces to capture him and bring him back to Thailand to face charges. But it will have to be done in a way that she can not alert her brother that he is going to be taken. If the United States can do this getting Terrorist, why can Thailand do the same thing?

.

[TerrylSky]

ooops! She doesn't look too happy. The old "hand in the cookie jar" scenario.

[dukebowling]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

So if you extend what your suggesting g'kid all past offenders should never be prosecuted or punished.

So that brings an obvious question: 'How can Thailand ever move forward if there continues to be a lack of respect for the law?'

By the way, I'm not so convinced of 'they still have a soft spot for her'.

Many of my university and business colleagues and personal friends have just the opposite view and want some punishment metered out (with fair trial and process of course).

It seems that I have a different set of personal friends and their view, which can not be expressed, is opposite. By the way, I believe they are the majority.

Yes, bargirls and most other lower class Thais believe what your 'friends' do.

Thailand is not a first world country. The poor people who I respect and represent a majority are none the less poorly educated and poorly informed. The yellow shirts are by western standards middle class but by Thai standards seen as elistist by poor Thais. It is true that a lot of the educated middle class Thais who represent the bulk of yellow shirts do tend to look down on the poor people red shirts. So there is plenty to critisize on all sides. That's just the way it is and one of the reasons Thailand has so much trouble embracing a working Democracy. Frankly, I think they should just keep things the way they are for the foreseeable future because Democracy in Thailand just doesn't seem to work very well.

Of course there is a danger that things could go too far the other way into a true military dictatorship so there needs to be checks and balances against that as well. The long term solution is better education imho. When a majority of the voting population only has a 6th grade education at best it's hard to have a working Democracy. The even bigger problem is poverty so we are back to 3rd world problems and there is no easy solution to that.

An argument for dictatorship using poor education in Thailand is laughable and has been proven wrong ad nauseam. They have a 92.6% literacy ranking.

He who is willing to give up liberty deserves neither freedom nor safety.

Edited March 19, 2015 by dukebowling

[dukebowling]

I think its farcical that people are saying she is innocent of anything and everything. A policy which her government promoted, she personally chaired and which monetarily was a complete disaster with many many allegations (some proven and some in the legal process currently) of corruption. It is only right and just that she gets pulled for negligence.

The endless stream of lies and broken promises, the mismanagement on an almost laughable scale and the 500 billion bahjt black hole which can't be accounted for, as well as the piles of missing rice would be enough to put a person with a less influential person away for many years. So quite why she should avoid any scrutiny at all just because she is Thaksin's sister is outrageous. She should be under house arrest if she misses even 1 court date, the military have more guns than Thaksin's private army so they should grow a pair and ensure she has to stick around and face the music this time (unlike mr T).

Throw the whole damn library at her. No mercy. no sympathy

So what was illegal?

How about go find out yourself. It's called the internet my friend. Lots of information there for one who searches for it. Now get to it if you really want to know all the key points, deeds and misdeeds of this scheme

Exactly my point, there is nothing on the internet, in the news or posted here that shows any illegal actions.

Edited March 19, 2015 by dukebowling

[Ingle07]

I am neither for or against, but it seems that the longer the General can stretch out the time to the "Next" election and try to gain popularity by going after Yingluck, which will fail. It would seem since her brother is out of reach, the General, I mean the government, is going after her for his crimes as well. A very poor example of an unbiased criminal justice system for all the world to see. Are his subordinates the appointed Judges and Prosecutors in the case?

[halloween]

Exactly my point, there is nothing on the internet, in the news or posted here that shows any illegal actions.

If spending B700 billion of other people's money with nothing to show for it is not a crime, I don't know what is.

[Plutojames88]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

He is right I feel ....the most easy to see point is that quote ""No good will come of this"

I share the viewpoint civil disobedience will manifest for sure if she is jailed .

Of which the Military Government will then highlight the need for their retention as being paramount.

Hence most likely more delays in the running of elections and the PM standing down.

Internationally it will look bad for the Government.

Countries like Australia already ban them from visits and don't acknowledge their mandate to rule- let alone go after opponents , after removing her from office via a judicial that's already highly controversial and seen as no more than a tool.( of Army)

America and Europe might well consider tougher positions and show disapproval of the continued stay by this Government in its transitional role when it adds court prosecution of woman no less the democratically elected leader and prior PM .

Meanwhile the Reds up north might decide to mobilise and things could escalate into a far worse situation.

The generals within the Thai higher sphere of power could well perceive an opportunity to split .

This might be the very worst situation leading to a war within the country .

More likely will be large scale social unrest and wide spread arrests and a righting of power and media censorship on a greater level.

The only conclusion I can come to is the Military are very aware of the possible consequences of going after YS and they are either expecting it and have plans in place to use such problems to their advantage .

Or they have under estimated the passive so far Reds and majority of Thais who might not like this action and have started to grow restless.

Then there is a brother who is wealthy enough to arm large groups of men who could head to Bangkok and cause massive upheaval and widespread trouble .

The army might have a big issue on its hands this time , not a novel by George Orwell and uni students on a Sunday afternoon.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Plutojames88

[spidermike007]

"The incident has negatively affected the image to Pattaya."

Really.

Yes. Pattaya has a sterling image. A real wholesome place that attracts the best, the brightest, the most noble, and the innocent. It is a wonderful city that had an opera, a world famous ballet, many museums with billion dollar art collextions

Thailand had a hundred opportunities to capture him, or have him extradited, or have him taken out. The only plausible explanation, is that there was never enough political will to do so. That is the only thing that makes sense. To this day. Granted, the coward should have surrendered. But, a man child rarely does the right thing.

[whybother]

I like the way that you highlight the words that include vote buying etc.

Do you think that this is a red only policy?

Didn't Mark say that the yellows/democrats spent more on vote buying than the reds?

I lived in the south for many along year and I saw more corruption and vote buying there than I have seen in the north.

Where do you live? In the same yellow tower as a lot of people on here.

Once again I state " I am not a redshirt supporter " I like to read factual comments and not fiction from those with selective memories, either red or yellow, thank you

"Didn't Mark say that the yellows/democrats spent more on vote buying than the reds?"

No, Mark didn't say that.

Korn said that the Democrats spent more on the election, but didn't say vote buying. Spending on the election would include advertising, rallies etc.