Martial Court Denies Alleged Torture Victim Bail

By Khaosod Eng.

BANGKOK — A Thai military court has denied bail to a terror suspect who said he was tortured in military custody earlier this month.

Sansern Sri-unruen, a 54-year-old taxi driver by profession, has been held in prison since 16 March to await a trial in military court for his alleged connection to a "terrorist network" that planned to stage bomb attacks in Bangkok.

Today, a judge denied the 800,000 baht bail posted by a member of the Thai Lawyers for Human Rights group, citing the possibility that Sansern might try to flee the country.

The lawyers group says that Sansern and three other men were beaten by soldiers while they were held incommunicado at an army camp for six days of interrogation. Under martial law, which was imposed by the military junta that seized power in the May 2014 coup, security officers can detain individuals without charges for up to seven days.

Sansern also said soldiers electrocuted him "30-40" times on his legs in an effort to extract a confession.

The four men have been accused of participating in a plot to "create chaos" and draw an intervention from the United Nations by planting bomb attacks around the capital city. Police say the network was responsible for the grenade attack at the Criminal Court on the night 7 March.

At least 12 arrests have been made in connection with the case so far.

The military has sternly denied the torture allegation and threatened to take legal action against those who spread it.

Read More: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1427113315

-- Khaosod English 2015-03-23

"Today, a judge denied the 800,000 baht bail posted by a member of the Thai Lawyers for Human Rights group, citing the possibility that Sansern might try to flee the country."

However once his alleged wounds have theoretically healed this ruling may be reviewed.

Or not.

Whims and fancies.

Judges and justice.

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by Bluespunk

Not worried person might flee the country

More worried person will yap to the press and speak out on multi media

Just another case of human right violations ... ooops ... sorry you have no rights in Thailand under martial law

Why am I not surprised?

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

But don't fear, my dear JOC, as foreigner (assuming you are) you do not need to fear anything. Even Thai don't have to fear anything, except justice being served. Those accused and charged will have their legal representatives. A Military Court is probably a bit more 'to the point'. Defence lawyers seriously hampered only because less of the normal legal tricks possible or accepted. A unlucky youth less likely to impress, things like that. I'm sure even in the West police officers would almost give an arm and a leg if court would cut lawyers back a wee bit.

So, no bail. Now waiting for confirmation that Sansern and three others have been added to the long list of political prisoners

ADD: Question: How 'open' or cases in 'normal' courts here in Thailand? Anyone can just walk in or reserve a seat? The Press can apply for space in the court room? How c'closed door' are proceedings in Military Courts?

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by rubl

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

But don't fear, my dear JOC, as foreigner (assuming you are) you do not need to fear anything. Even Thai don't have to fear anything, except justice being served. Those accused and charged will have their legal representatives. A Military Court is probably a bit more 'to the point'. Defence lawyers seriously hampered only because less of the normal legal tricks possible or accepted. A unlucky youth less likely to impress, things like that. I'm sure even in the West police officers would almost give an arm and a leg if court would cut lawyers back a wee bit.

So, no bail. Now waiting for confirmation that Sansern and three others have been added to the long list of political prisoners.

So you would have no problem with military courts trying civilians behind closed doors in Holland?

You consider due process as "hampering" justice being served? Why a trial at all? A quick summary execution and done.

Amazing when people come to thailand how they lose all perspective.

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

Don't throw grenades and you should be fine.

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

Don't throw grenades and you should be fine.

A little of your own medicine:

Please provide a link to where it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that the accused are indeed guilty!!

The poor guy is a taxi driver for heaven's sake. How / why would he try to flee the country? It is not like he is some Hi-so and has money stashed away in an overseas bank account... but then they usually get bail, don't they?. Also, it is not as if the guy who bankrolled a lot of these activities cares enough to try to help his minions such as this once they are caught !!!

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

No offence, but you probably mean fake claims 'more difficult to believe' or maybe even 'more difficult to fabricate'.

When another poster posted a photo of one of the suspects with before/after a black and blue eye having appeared I was only joking of course asking if the legal representative had an argument with his client. Still legal representatives allowed might help, although the legal representative isn't around 24/7 of course. Time enough to do or fake.

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by rubl

Not worried person might flee the country

More worried person will yap to the press and speak out on multi media

Just another case of human right violations ... ooops ... sorry you have no rights in Thailand under martial law

Or there again he might by lying, have committed terrorist offences and planning to leg it to Cambodia or somewhere similar.

But of course you know for sure that no red shirt terrorist suspect would lie.

Not worried person might flee the country

More worried person will yap to the press and speak out on multi media

Just another case of human right violations ... ooops ... sorry you have no rights in Thailand under martial law

Or there again he might by lying, have committed terrorist offences and planning to leg it to Cambodia or somewhere similar.

But of course you know for sure that no red shirt terrorist suspect would lie.

But of course you know for sure, that Mr. Sansern is indeed a red shirt terrorist??

Based on what?

Military Court!!

Says it all................................

Did you miss that Thailand is under military rule?

Did you miss that the civil courts are still working?

Trials behind closed doors scares the sh1t out of me!!

Don't throw grenades and you should be fine.

A little of your own medicine:

Please provide a link to where it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that the accused are indeed guilty!!

You don't need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be bound over for trial. You need that to be convicted.

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

No offence, but you probably mean fake claims 'more difficult to believe' or maybe even 'more difficult to fabricate'.

When another poster posted a photo of one of the suspects with before/after a black and blue eye having appeared I was only joking of course asking if the legal representative had an argument with his client. Still legal representatives allowed might help, although the legal representative isn't around 24/7 of course. Time enough to do or fake.

When you detain an individual in a military run interrogation center without access to legal representation incommunicado... then it is ripe for abuse..... If the person is not transferred to civilian facilities then how can we have any independent verification that it was fake? If he was in civilian detention at least he would have access to independent representation or medical specialists that would verify it. By not having that it leaves it up to what you want to believe. Remember the CIA detention facilities? Rumours and reports of torture came out, the CIA said we do not torture... but then the evidence finally leaked from Abu Grab that yes -- they did torture the prisoners.

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

No offence, but you probably mean fake claims 'more difficult to believe' or maybe even 'more difficult to fabricate'.

When another poster posted a photo of one of the suspects with before/after a black and blue eye having appeared I was only joking of course asking if the legal representative had an argument with his client. Still legal representatives allowed might help, although the legal representative isn't around 24/7 of course. Time enough to do or fake.

When you detain an individual in a military run interrogation center without access to legal representation incommunicado... then it is ripe for abuse..... If the person is not transferred to civilian facilities then how can we have any independent verification that it was fake? If he was in civilian detention at least he would have access to independent representation or medical specialists that would verify it. By not having that it leaves it up to what you want to believe. Remember the CIA detention facilities? Rumours and reports of torture came out, the CIA said we do not torture... but then the evidence finally leaked from Abu Grab that yes -- they did torture the prisoners.

So, as I suggested earlier in another topic, before prisoners are handed over to the police they should be paraded naked before an international commission to proof the merchandise still to be in a shape as they were when 'invited' by the military.

BTW how many days were there between the prisoners handed over to the police and the first photo's emerging ? How many days between first contact legal representative and client, and the emergence of photo's? Not saying something fishy there, but just trying to make sure all aspects are covered.

Oh, I agree it would be better if legal representatives could at least be present during interrogation while in military detention. Just present would be sufficient already. Under Martial Law though and with Military Courts ruled by military law refusing access to legal representatives is lawful. Still, as the US Envoy said the current government should work on perception.

Although I don't think we should go into the CIA issues, still on correction I think (assuming I'm right in this). The evidence from Abu Grab was from some stupid US Army guards who even taped their fun with the prisoners. I think the real evidence came from info leaked by Snowden and the other chap before.

Sounds to me IMHO that is the same thing RTP use's to get"ah" confession's

One off-topic post has been removed from this thread.

A quick summary execution and done.

Not such a bad idea for some BKK bus drivers.

Not worried person might flee the country

More worried person will yap to the press and speak out on multi media

Just another case of human right violations ... ooops ... sorry you have no rights in Thailand under martial law

Or there again he might by lying, have committed terrorist offences and planning to leg it to Cambodia or somewhere similar.

But of course you know for sure that no red shirt terrorist suspect would lie.

But of course you know for sure, that Mr. Sansern is indeed a red shirt terrorist??

Based on what?

I never wrote he was. Do you understand what the word suspect means?

A quick summary execution and done.

Not such a bad idea for some BKK bus drivers.

Someone thought it a good idea to eliminate drug dealers and Southern insurgents with summary extra judicial executions on his watch too. Sure, you get innocents but you might get some guilty ones too

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

No offence, but you probably mean fake claims 'more difficult to believe' or maybe even 'more difficult to fabricate'.

When another poster posted a photo of one of the suspects with before/after a black and blue eye having appeared I was only joking of course asking if the legal representative had an argument with his client. Still legal representatives allowed might help, although the legal representative isn't around 24/7 of course. Time enough to do or fake.

When you detain an individual in a military run interrogation center without access to legal representation incommunicado... then it is ripe for abuse..... If the person is not transferred to civilian facilities then how can we have any independent verification that it was fake? If he was in civilian detention at least he would have access to independent representation or medical specialists that would verify it. By not having that it leaves it up to what you want to believe. Remember the CIA detention facilities? Rumours and reports of torture came out, the CIA said we do not torture... but then the evidence finally leaked from Abu Grab that yes -- they did torture the prisoners.

In the deep South there have been more than 500 allegations of torture by the military, with not one conviction. There has been a form of admission of guilt when a military spokesman claimed torture is now prohibited.

An article on torture whilst in military detention after the coup at:

http://www.voanews.com/content/amnesty-alleges-torture-in-thailand-since-coup/2445558.html

Tightening up of bail availability seems only logical. Where else in the world do convicted murderers get bail? Or those involved in terrorism?

I often read posts decrying those of us who accept the reality of life on the ground in Thailand, and even approve of restoring peace on the streets via a coup. (I knew coups would be likely when I moved here over 12 years ago)...

Particularly in threads like this people are screaming about closed courts etc and comparing this to the "West"

Well, most countries in the West allow for closed courts when national security is an issue, and since 911.......

I don't know the veracity of the charges of torture or not, but the military opened up the door to the charges when they allowed to detain people incommunicado for a week without any legal representation. If they were allowed legal reputation -- or even their representative in an observation room -- then you would make false claims more difficult to make.

No offence, but you probably mean fake claims 'more difficult to believe' or maybe even 'more difficult to fabricate'.

When another poster posted a photo of one of the suspects with before/after a black and blue eye having appeared I was only joking of course asking if the legal representative had an argument with his client. Still legal representatives allowed might help, although the legal representative isn't around 24/7 of course. Time enough to do or fake.

When you detain an individual in a military run interrogation center without access to legal representation incommunicado... then it is ripe for abuse..... If the person is not transferred to civilian facilities then how can we have any independent verification that it was fake? If he was in civilian detention at least he would have access to independent representation or medical specialists that would verify it. By not having that it leaves it up to what you want to believe. Remember the CIA detention facilities? Rumours and reports of torture came out, the CIA said we do not torture... but then the evidence finally leaked from Abu Grab that yes -- they did torture the prisoners.

In the deep South there have been more than 500 allegations of torture by the military, with not one conviction. There has been a form of admission of guilt when a military spokesman claimed torture is now prohibited.

An article on torture whilst in military detention after the coup at:

http://www.voanews.com/content/amnesty-alleges-torture-in-thailand-since-coup/2445558.html

Point of order.

That is an article in which NGO's allege abuse.

I find it rather peculiar, who in this country get's bail...and who doesn't.

2 examples come to mind, that were way clearer and way beyond "alleged".

a) the Red Bull heir

that couple, that tortured the poor Laotian girl with boiling water and kept her in a cage.

Both allowed bail...and how well that worked out!

On the other hand: the alleged Koh Tao- killer and an alleged terrorist!

No bail, of course!

Anyone care to explain this to me?

It's hard to get justice in a country where justice is corrupted by martial law and military rule that transends human rights and liberties. And the Junta is claiming it is bringing reform to the Thai people? Its only true reform is to secure its power into the next generation of Thai governments. It otherwise cannot stand public scrutiny should military officers foresake their ranks to place themselves as civilian candidates for government office.