I'm innocent and afraid, says US man fighting extradition to Thailand in kidnap case

[SaamBaht]

Ok have to apologize to NS .. did not find him in any of the Pitbull posts. Thought I seen him there but I was mistaken.. but plenty of Americans there wanted him tried in Thailand and not the UK.

I don't think Americans are for blanket policies. If this man did kidnap this guy, then he should face justice in the country he committed the crime. But the facts of this case are highly questionable, and the military dictators should not be treated as democratically elected citizens. I would, however, caution the Americans when considering extradition to any junta or otherwise non-elected government.

But I'm sure the Americans are used to your kind of attitude. It comes with being top dog in a lowly world lacking in basic liberty and human rights.

Edited March 26, 2015 by SaamBaht

[SaamBaht]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

So, robblok, you'd like to see a man turned over to a military dictatorship, where justice is cloaked in absolute secrecy? Yet, you take issue with accused criminals being sent to a country where elections, liberty, and due process are the guiding principles for two hundred plus years?

Are you aware how many U.S. Generals are fired annually? Bet not.

By the way, the victim in this case, the man who was supposedly kidnapped, didn't report the incident for more than forty days after is was supposed to have occurred. That's just one of the questionable facts in the case we might start dubbing the IOU Kidnapper, because the supposed perpetrator allowed his victim to walk free on a promise to pay the ransom later.

robblok, you are a piece of work, aren't ya?

I agree to send Swedish citizens suspected and wanted for crimes in the US to US if theres a guarantee that they wont get the death penalty. Even though I consider some of the American laws to be draconian and that US hands out unproportionally long prison sentences sometimes, by Swedish standards.

Im Swedish.

You're right about long prison terms, especially where the accused resides, in Florida, where life long sentences are dished out by the dozen.

[Scott]

Please discontinue the nasty personal comments.

[robblok]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

So, robblok, you'd like to see a man turned over to a military dictatorship, where justice is cloaked in absolute secrecy? Yet, you take issue with accused criminals being sent to a country where elections, liberty, and due process are the guiding principles for two hundred plus years?

Are you aware how many U.S. Generals are fired annually? Bet not.

By the way, the victim in this case, the man who was supposedly kidnapped, didn't report the incident for more than forty days after is was supposed to have occurred. That's just one of the questionable facts in the case we might start dubbing the IOU Kidnapper, because the supposed perpetrator allowed his victim to walk free on a promise to pay the ransom later.

robblok, you are a piece of work, aren't ya?

Oh boy.. the junta has nothing to do with the courts. How many times do I have to repeat this.

If the victim did not report the crime for so long then it casts doubts on the claim. I agree here (logic). I don't agree with using torture as an argument as it is unheard of that Westerners have ever been tortured in a Thai jail.

I have no problems with real arguments.. not the junta this that and torture that. The argument you brought is logical and one I can live with.

[SOTIRIOS]

....so when is corruption going to be stopped......???

...and what does what neighborhood the plaintiff lives in...

...and since when is someone's 'statement....with no facts....considered proof enough to extradite....???

...meanwhile in Singapore....

[BKKBobby]

Giving a Burmese labourer a beating, maybe. Torturing a foreigner, no.

[robblok]

Ok have to apologize to NS .. did not find him in any of the Pitbull posts. Thought I seen him there but I was mistaken.. but plenty of Americans there wanted him tried in Thailand and not the UK.

I don't think Americans are for blanket policies. If this man did kidnap this guy, then he should face justice in the country he committed the crime. But the facts of this case are highly questionable, and the military dictators should not be treated as democratically elected citizens. I would, however, caution the Americans when considering extradition to any junta or otherwise non-elected government.

But I'm sure the Americans are used to your kind of attitude. It comes with being top dog in a lowly world lacking in basic liberty and human rights.

I only ever made a point about the junta and torture.. never about the case itself.. and if it is like you said 40 days and such then its highly questionable. Point is the US might be top dog but does not always do the right thing. Quite a few examples of this.

I have nothing against the US or Americans, I just don't believe they are always right or always just. Just like I don't always agree with what my government does. I am against blind flag-waving and supporting your country or countrymen even if its wrong.

[rijb]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

So, robblok, you'd like to see a man turned over to a military dictatorship, where justice is cloaked in absolute secrecy? Yet, you take issue with accused criminals being sent to a country where elections, liberty, and due process are the guiding principles for two hundred plus years?

Are you aware how many U.S. Generals are fired annually? Bet not.

By the way, the victim in this case, the man who was supposedly kidnapped, didn't report the incident for more than forty days after is was supposed to have occurred. That's just one of the questionable facts in the case we might start dubbing the IOU Kidnapper, because the supposed perpetrator allowed his victim to walk free on a promise to pay the ransom later.

robblok, you are a piece of work, aren't ya?

Oh boy.. the junta has nothing to do with the courts. How many times do I have to repeat this.

If the victim did not report the crime for so long then it casts doubts on the claim. I agree here (logic). I don't agree with using torture as an argument as it is unheard of that Westerners have ever been tortured in a Thai jail.

I have no problems with real arguments.. not the junta this that and torture that. The argument you brought is logical and one I can live with.

How would you know whether the junta has anything to do with the courts? They have made if very clear that everything is within their control. What facts do you have to prove otherwise?

[JO1973]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

Robblok all you do is bitch and moan about Americans and Brits. Every post of yours is some complaint about this or that, trying to indict Americans and Brits for any foreigner-related story. I've seen a lot of Dutch in Asia and hell of a lot of them are the worst behaved Westerners a person will ever see -- and you sound jut like them. Why don't you quit your crying, you sound pathetic.

[chondan]

Some people say there were no Americans ever tortured or under severe distress while in Thailand. Talk to some of the American expats that were here from 1965-1973, under, the Big three, Thanom, Praphat and Norong. Check it out.

[robblok]

Oh boy.. the junta has nothing to do with the courts. How many times do I have to repeat this.

If the victim did not report the crime for so long then it casts doubts on the claim. I agree here (logic). I don't agree with using torture as an argument as it is unheard of that Westerners have ever been tortured in a Thai jail.

I have no problems with real arguments.. not the junta this that and torture that. The argument you brought is logical and one I can live with.

How would you know whether the junta has anything to do with the courts? They have made if very clear that everything is within their control. What facts do you have to prove otherwise?

Because its illogical for them to interfere in the normal courts. Its not in their benefits and there are absolutely no reports about this. Give me one good reason why the junta would do this ? They are only interested in political crimes and such not normal day to day justice. Nothing has changed there else you would surely have read about it because that would be a major thing.

[rijb]

Oh boy.. the junta has nothing to do with the courts. How many times do I have to repeat this.

If the victim did not report the crime for so long then it casts doubts on the claim. I agree here (logic). I don't agree with using torture as an argument as it is unheard of that Westerners have ever been tortured in a Thai jail.

I have no problems with real arguments.. not the junta this that and torture that. The argument you brought is logical and one I can live with.

How would you know whether the junta has anything to do with the courts? They have made if very clear that everything is within their control. What facts do you have to prove otherwise?

Because its illogical for them to interfere in the normal courts. Its not in their benefits and there are absolutely no reports about this. Give me one good reason why the junta would do this ? They are only interested in political crimes and such not normal day to day justice. Nothing has changed there else you would surely have read about it because that would be a major thing.

So, you're using western logic in Thailand. Let us know how that works out for you.

[robblok]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

Robblok all you do is bitch and moan about Americans and Brits. Every post of yours is some complaint about this or that, trying to indict Americans and Brits for any foreigner-related story. I've seen a lot of Dutch in Asia and hell of a lot of them are the worst behaved Westerners a person will ever see -- and you sound jut like them. Why don't you quit your crying, you sound pathetic.

Oh dear someone does not like criticism. I could direct you to my post on the topic of a Dutch guy that did some stupid things in Pattaya. You will see me convicting him there and you will see me complaining my fellow Dutch who say he has no Dutch name (thus trying to exhortation the Dutch)

Im no hypocrite like many on here and I certainly don't do flag waving or think Dutch are better as others. As a fact one of the most unpleasant guys I ever met in Thailand was Dutch.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/808502-dutchman-goes-berserk-hitting-police-thais/page-1

[gemguy]

According to all the news articles this affair has been going on for some time.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

After you read the above posted attachment and several other website news articles you may come to the same conclusion I have.....

That being there was no kidnapping occurring rather it is very possible that there is extortion and black mail involved perpetrated by Shawn Abraham Shaw on Antonio Accornero because Shawn Abraham Shaw and his Girlfriend Dawn Pasqualucci learned that Antonio Accernero supposedly likes young boys and likes the Ladyboys.

I surmise Shawn Abraham Shaw and his girlfriend came up with a plan to extort money out of Antonio Accornero by way of exposing him as being Gay and or an active Kiddy Diddler and or a Ladyboy Lover....which they believed would seriously damage his reputation amongst the business community and his supposed high level connections.

I surmise the promised money to Shawn Abraham Shaw for the business they discussed was not forth coming so they tried to black mail Antonio Accornero and Antonio Accornero countered by filing charges of kidnapping using his high level connections to make the alleged kidnapping a criminal case.

That is what I read between the lines.

Cheers

[dutchisaan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just look at the figures in countries handing over their people to the USA and vice versa.. you will see what I mean.

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

.

Typical Dutch arrogance: assume facts not in evidence, and make unwarranted attacks on other posters.

NeverSure never said other countries should hand over everyone the US government demands;

NeverSure is not the US government. So don't blame him for the sins of his government.

Remember the killer Amanda Knox.

Not saying the US should hand over everyone to Thailand... but in ways of treaties and such.. the USA is severely lacking.

Of course you mean

Remember Amanda Knox found innocent and released and returned home? How many times do they get to torture someone by dragging one into court and when found innocent just start it all over again. The Italians are showing they have not become civilized since they had innocents thrown to the lions in the colluseums. What a disgusting lot. Boycott Anything Italian. No more Italian anything .

Typical Dutch arrogance???

You realy don't have a clue, do you?

[rijb]

According to all the news articles this affair has been going on for some time.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

After you read the above posted attachment and several other website news articles you may come to the same conclusion I have.....

That being there was no kidnapping occurring rather it is very possible that there is extortion and black mail involved perpetrated by Shawn Abraham Shaw on Antonio Accornero because Shawn Abraham Shaw and his Girlfriend Dawn Pasqualucci learned that Antonio Accernero supposedly likes young boys and likes the Ladyboys.

I surmise Shawn Abraham Shaw and his girlfriend came up with a plan to extort money out of Antonio Accornero by way of exposing him as being Gay and or an active Kiddy Diddler and or a Ladyboy Lover....which they believed would seriously damage his reputation amongst the business community and his supposed high level connections.

I surmise the promised money to Shawn Abraham Shaw for the business they discussed was not forth coming so they tried to black mail Antonio Accornero and Antonio Accornero countered by filing charges of kidnapping using his high level connections to make the alleged kidnapping a criminal case.

That is what I read between the lines.

Cheers

It's refreshing that you use the word 'surmise'. Can you explain that word to the Dutch guy?

However, he's got such a tiny little boner for Americans, he might not understand.

[robblok]

According to all the news articles this affair has been going on for some time.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

After you read the above posted attachment and several other website news articles you may come to the same conclusion I have.....

That being there was no kidnapping occurring rather it is very possible that there is extortion and black mail involved perpetrated by Shawn Abraham Shaw on Antonio Accornero because Shawn Abraham Shaw and his Girlfriend Dawn Pasqualucci learned that Antonio Accernero supposedly likes young boys and likes the Ladyboys.

I surmise Shawn Abraham Shaw and his girlfriend came up with a plan to extort money out of Antonio Accornero by way of exposing him as being Gay and or an active Kiddy Diddler and or a Ladyboy Lover....which they believed would seriously damage his reputation amongst the business community and his supposed high level connections.

I surmise the promised money to Shawn Abraham Shaw for the business they discussed was not forth coming so they tried to black mail Antonio Accornero and Antonio Accornero countered by filing charges of kidnapping using his high level connections to make the alleged kidnapping a criminal case.

That is what I read between the lines.

Cheers

It's refreshing that you use the word 'surmise'. Can you explain that word to the Dutch guy?

However, he's got such a tiny little boner for Americans, he might not understand.

So they are not guilty of kidnapping but blackmail.. refreshing.

You seem to misread my post I am against the american standard reluctance to extradite.

I am also against the torture allegations as there has never been a proven case of a Westerner being tortured in Thai police.

I am perfectly open to the evidence being flimsy and the case being kicked out on that ground.

Seems I now have something against Brits and Americans because i criticize them. Though I criticize my own countrymen just as much. (see previous link) Maybe you just don't like it when people don't agree with your country or countries actions and think that they are then against you or you country.. how about I am just against those actions.

That probably goes over your head but then again that is to be expected on a forum.

[jaywalker]

extradition treaties are a two way street that America needs to respect.

Aren't you forgetting that the West sees Thailand's current government as illegal and illegitimate and lacking standing to try anyone?

Thailand's coup installed "government" has no treaty with anyone.

Lat time I checked, the Thai government doesn't even have a constitution.

[recycled]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

It should be open season on all Dutch. If you have a gripe regarding the Dutch and USA, start another topic, it has nothing to do with this mans predicament.

[SaamBaht]

According to all the news articles this affair has been going on for some time.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

After you read the above posted attachment and several other website news articles you may come to the same conclusion I have.....

That being there was no kidnapping occurring rather it is very possible that there is extortion and black mail involved perpetrated by Shawn Abraham Shaw on Antonio Accornero because Shawn Abraham Shaw and his Girlfriend Dawn Pasqualucci learned that Antonio Accernero supposedly likes young boys and likes the Ladyboys.

I surmise Shawn Abraham Shaw and his girlfriend came up with a plan to extort money out of Antonio Accornero by way of exposing him as being Gay and or an active Kiddy Diddler and or a Ladyboy Lover....which they believed would seriously damage his reputation amongst the business community and his supposed high level connections.

I surmise the promised money to Shawn Abraham Shaw for the business they discussed was not forth coming so they tried to black mail Antonio Accornero and Antonio Accornero countered by filing charges of kidnapping using his high level connections to make the alleged kidnapping a criminal case.

That is what I read between the lines.

Cheers

Nice deduction. Sounds much more plausible than kidnapping. I wouldn't trust the Thai justice system to get to the truth, however.

[SaamBaht]

According to all the news articles this affair has been going on for some time.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

After you read the above posted attachment and several other website news articles you may come to the same conclusion I have.....

That being there was no kidnapping occurring rather it is very possible that there is extortion and black mail involved perpetrated by Shawn Abraham Shaw on Antonio Accornero because Shawn Abraham Shaw and his Girlfriend Dawn Pasqualucci learned that Antonio Accernero supposedly likes young boys and likes the Ladyboys.

I surmise Shawn Abraham Shaw and his girlfriend came up with a plan to extort money out of Antonio Accornero by way of exposing him as being Gay and or an active Kiddy Diddler and or a Ladyboy Lover....which they believed would seriously damage his reputation amongst the business community and his supposed high level connections.

I surmise the promised money to Shawn Abraham Shaw for the business they discussed was not forth coming so they tried to black mail Antonio Accornero and Antonio Accornero countered by filing charges of kidnapping using his high level connections to make the alleged kidnapping a criminal case.

That is what I read between the lines.

Cheers

It's refreshing that you use the word 'surmise'. Can you explain that word to the Dutch guy?

However, he's got such a tiny little boner for Americans, he might not understand.

So they are not guilty of kidnapping but blackmail.. refreshing.

You seem to misread my post I am against the american standard reluctance to extradite.

I am also against the torture allegations as there has never been a proven case of a Westerner being tortured in Thai police.

I am perfectly open to the evidence being flimsy and the case being kicked out on that ground.

Seems I now have something against Brits and Americans because i criticize them. Though I criticize my own countrymen just as much. (see previous link) Maybe you just don't like it when people don't agree with your country or countries actions and think that they are then against you or you country.. how about I am just against those actions.

That probably goes over your head but then again that is to be expected on a forum.

One reason the Americans may be reluctant to extradite is that many countries do not have the same openness in the justice system or general standard of due process. Whatever negative attitudes you might have for the Americans, their justice system, while not perfect, is open and you will get your day in open court with free legal help.

In Thailand or Italy or countless other countries, the whole process is very suspect. No one knows what goes on in a Thai court. In the states you can walk into any courtroom and observe. In Thailand the defendant would be lucky get his face in front of an impartial judge.

Currently, Thailand has no elected government, no constitution, and the military has all power. Whether it's in their interest or not, being that this case is not political, they can be influenced and then they can use that influence and the perps and victims would never know.

I am glad the US is cautious about extradition. And I'm glad they are vigilant about bringing accused criminals to the US to face real justice.

[HeijoshinCool]

This OP is about one particular case.

Other than the alleged victim's "sworn" statement, there appears to be zero evidence a crime was committed. No physical evidence. No eyewitness testimony. No depositions. No documentary evidence. No photographic or video evidence.

Zero. Zip. No prima facie case here.

And even the alleged victim, an American who regularly travels from LOS to Las Vegas, has not appeared to testify nor be deposed, under oath (and thereby expose himself to cross examination and perjury charges).

In other words, the US Attorney has nothing other than a sworn statement, written in Thailand, vs. the accused sworn testimony, given in Palm Beach.

So all of you who want him extradited, you feel certain he should be tried in a foreign country, known for its police corruption, and currently being governed by a military coup, based on nothing more than a sworn statement?

How sad.

[chuckd]

To whom it may concern:

Here is a link to the Thai/US extradition treaty.

Go there, download it, read it and then start your arguments based on some sort of cognitive reasoning.

This conjecture is ridiculous.

[Scott]

To whom it may concern:

Here is a link to the Thai/US extradition treaty.

Go there, download it, read it and then start your arguments based on some sort of cognitive reasoning.

This conjecture is ridiculous.

There doesn't seem to be a link.

[Johpa]

e]

Amanda Knox is a sick twistee psycho and should be locked up in prison right now.

But yes, shes a cute American-pie, ill give you that.

I am beginning to think that your obsession with Ms. Knox is a bit twisted. She does serve as a potential precedent to US extradition policy, but Italy had not served any notice of a request for extradition at this point in time. Although one may argue some similarity between the historical corruption embedded within the Italian judiciary and that of the Thai judiciary.

As for the US serviceman in Okinawa, most US military personnel serving in overseas bases are exempt from local jurisdiction as part of the treaties signed to establish the military bases. The legal term is extraterritoriality.

[robblok]

So they are not guilty of kidnapping but blackmail.. refreshing.

You seem to misread my post I am against the american standard reluctance to extradite.

I am also against the torture allegations as there has never been a proven case of a Westerner being tortured in Thai police.

I am perfectly open to the evidence being flimsy and the case being kicked out on that ground.

Seems I now have something against Brits and Americans because i criticize them. Though I criticize my own countrymen just as much. (see previous link) Maybe you just don't like it when people don't agree with your country or countries actions and think that they are then against you or you country.. how about I am just against those actions.

That probably goes over your head but then again that is to be expected on a forum.

One reason the Americans may be reluctant to extradite is that many countries do not have the same openness in the justice system or general standard of due process. Whatever negative attitudes you might have for the Americans, their justice system, while not perfect, is open and you will get your day in open court with free legal help.

In Thailand or Italy or countless other countries, the whole process is very suspect. No one knows what goes on in a Thai court. In the states you can walk into any courtroom and observe. In Thailand the defendant would be lucky get his face in front of an impartial judge.

Currently, Thailand has no elected government, no constitution, and the military has all power. Whether it's in their interest or not, being that this case is not political, they can be influenced and then they can use that influence and the perps and victims would never know.

I am glad the US is cautious about extradition. And I'm glad they are vigilant about bringing accused criminals to the US to face real justice.

@saambaht.. first reply was not aimed at you i let it there so i can reply to you.

Its ok to be vigilant, however if you expect people to extradite to your country you better do the same in return or it might stop. Plenty of high profile cases where the US has some eggs on his head too. It would disrupt the topic if we started to argue about it.

If evidence is flimsy sure then don't extradite.

Acting like there is no way to influence a judge in the us and it can only happen in Thailand is crazy (though I agree id rather be tried in the US as there is a higher chance of impartiality)

I really don't see the military as a problem, not more as the previous government they both could have influenced cases and with the likes of some of the people int he previous government (Charlem who kepts his killer sons out of jail) it is just as likely. So I don't see the junta being in power as something of a problem or something that would have influence on judicial proceedings.

To be honest the US system fails too and so has the system in my home country. We should never act like this is not the case and putting down other countries.

Anyway in this case it seems like the guy wanted to blackmail .. I believe that is a crime ? So we are not talking about a honest citizen here who's rights are trembled but someone who is a criminal.

[Jools]

Does the United States extradite its citizens to foreign countries which have no legislature or independent court system?

[chuckd]

To whom it may concern:

Here is a link to the Thai/US extradition treaty.

Go there, download it, read it and then start your arguments based on some sort of cognitive reasoning.

This conjecture is ridiculous.

There doesn't seem to be a link.

As my wife often says to me..."Do you expect me to do EVERYTHING?"

Here 'tis. Sorry about that.

https://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/thailand.pdf

Edited March 26, 2015 by chuckd

[utkb]

According to wikipedia, the US does not have an extradition treaty with Thailand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_law_in_the_United_States

[utkb]

According to wikipedia, the US does not have an extradition treaty with Thailand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_law_in_the_United_States

Strike this, I was reading the list which do not have treaties.

The list of treaties is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

which includes Thailand (the same document ChuckD referred)

Edited March 26, 2015 by utkb