Looking for advice on setting up a home gym

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, speedtripler said:

Deadlifts  certainly helped me gain mass and strength and they are renowned as one of the best compound exercises you can do

 

Squatting with free weights or a barbel is also one of the best exercises you can do if you want to get stronger but maybe too dangerous for the Thai visa are group to do unsupervised 

 

Yes they are a great compound exercise one of the best though I don't overuse them as they are real taxing to the system. I also do squats a lot and yes they can be dangerous to the people reading Thaisvisa. 

[Justfine]

On 17/02/2018 at 8:01 PM, FracturedRabbit said:

Hey Tropo, 
You seem to be very experienced in this area; could you recommend 4-5 starter exercises for an old fart that has acquired some dumbbells and a bench and wants to improve his fitness and strength without risking damage by bad form? Thank!

Google dumbell exercises for over 60yos. Lots of videos on youtube showing proper technique.

 

Start out with light weights and work up slowly.

 

For shoulders side lateral raises are good.

[Justfine]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

 

Yes they are a great compound exercise one of the best though I don't overuse them as they are real taxing to the system. I also do squats a lot and yes they can be dangerous to the people reading Thaisvisa. 

Deadlifts great for general strength. Digging holes in the backyard with shovel is too. You don't see weak landscapers. If you have land get to work doing stuff.

[Justfine]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

I rather have experts with more knowledge then you tell me what is right. You claim something you were not even present with. I said I made great progress muscular when I added deadlifts in my program. You were not there you don't know what i did but you claim you do ? How can we debate things if you make up things ? 

 

The only thing i changed in my program was adding deadlifts, result.. extra muscle.  So am I lying ?

 

I am doing them lighter these days as there is no need for me to get any extra muscle, I am just maintaining.. for me to get more muscle would be extremely hard right now. They still help me as they are a great compound exercise.

 

Deadlifts are the king of exercise is not bro science and you don't know it better then the likes of Mark Rippetoe and Alan Aragon who make statements like that. 

 

Of course you need more then just 1 exercise to get a muscular body but deadlift helps a lot because its a good compound exercise that targets so many of the muscles. 

You are right and always best to look at qualified comments from sports scientists not "experts" on forums with no qualifications.

 

I too had some back issues from sports. Deadlifts have improved my back and general strength quicker than any other exercise.

 

Doing some today and looking forward to it.

[Justfine]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5513080/

 

 

[Justfine]

"size of your limbs has a lot to do with the chance of injuries."

 

Would explain why a lot of sporting champions arent that tall in cricket, golf, tennis etc.

 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Justfine said:

"size of your limbs has a lot to do with the chance of injuries."

 

Would explain why a lot of sporting champions arent that tall in cricket, golf, tennis etc.

 

 

I will elaborate a bit more, depending on how the size of your limbs relates to each-other depends on how good certain exercises feel. That is also the reason why certain exercises are more safe for some then for others. Its basic movement theory. People with longer limbs have a disadvantage at certain movements. (people with shorter limbs too when playing basketball)

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Justfine said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5513080/

 

 

 Deadlifts are just one of the compound exercises that involve a lot of muscles, in general the more large muscles you involve in a movement the better it is. You won't see people gain 10kg of muscle from doing biceps curls but stuff like deadlifts, squat, benchpresses, shoulder presses and so on will give you more muscle.

 

Of course we need a balanced system you can't just do one exercise and expect it to be all good.. but if you have to skip an exercise you better skip a biceps curl over a deadlift.

[FracturedRabbit]

Google dumbell exercises for over 60yos. Lots of videos on youtube showing proper technique.
 
Start out with light weights and work up slowly.
 
For shoulders side lateral raises are good.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Justfine]

57 minutes ago, robblok said:

 Deadlifts are just one of the compound exercises that involve a lot of muscles, in general the more large muscles you involve in a movement the better it is. You won't see people gain 10kg of muscle from doing biceps curls but stuff like deadlifts, squat, benchpresses, shoulder presses and so on will give you more muscle.

 

Of course we need a balanced system you can't just do one exercise and expect it to be all good.. but if you have to skip an exercise you better skip a biceps curl over a deadlift.

Agreed.

[Justfine]

24 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Saw you said you have an incline bench. I do dumbell presses at 35 and 20 degrees. That's from the horizontal. The 35 degrees first then 20 degrees same weight for muscle burn. Be careful picking and putting dumbells as you can hurt your back if twisting or back not straight.

[Justfine]

18 hours ago, robblok said:

 

Yes they are a great compound exercise one of the best though I don't overuse them as they are real taxing to the system. I also do squats a lot and yes they can be dangerous to the people reading Thaisvisa. 

Lots of exercises are dangerous if reckless.

[robblok]

Found a new shop for serious exercise equipment. I haven't  ordered yet but its the only shop I ever seen that stocks bumper plates

 

I am tempted to buy a pair of 10 KG bumper plates (or 5 KG when they become available)

 

https://eastwestfitness.com/product-category/weightlifting-strength/

[tropo]

On 2/19/2018 at 8:53 AM, robblok said:

 Deadlifts are just one of the compound exercises that involve a lot of muscles, in general the more large muscles you involve in a movement the better it is. You won't see people gain 10kg of muscle from doing biceps curls but stuff like deadlifts, squat, benchpresses, shoulder presses and so on will give you more muscle.

 

Of course we need a balanced system you can't just do one exercise and expect it to be all good.. but if you have to skip an exercise you better skip a biceps curl over a deadlift.

Interesting you say that. I don't do biceps isolation exercises at all but do deadlift, about once a week. Not for any particular muscular gains, but to keep the trunk strong. You won't gain any aesthetic "meat" deadlifting. It's a core movement that focusing most work on the trunk area, which tends to thicken the midsection. My mid-section is already too thick/wide (not fat). You won't find many serious bodybuilders get over excited about deadlifting. The current Mr Olympia, Phil Heath used to do them many years ago, but not now. Even when he did them he wasn't going heavy, but that was in the years before he became competitive. It's partly the risk of injury, partly thickening the mid-section and partly that they don't develop any muscles you can't develop faster with other exercises.

 

OK, it's time to get ready for gym...  it's a deadlifting day LOL.

Edited April 8, 2018 by tropo

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Interesting you say that. I don't do biceps isolation exercises at all but do deadlift, about once a week. Not for any particular muscular gains, but to keep the trunk strong. You won't gain any aesthetic "meat" deadlifting. It's a core movement that focusing most work on the trunk area, which tends to thicken the midsection. My mid-section is already too thick/wide (not fat). You won't find many serious bodybuilders get over excited about deadlifting. The current Mr Olympia, Phil Heath used to do them many years ago, but not now. Even when he did them he wasn't going heavy, but that was in the years before he became competitive. It's partly the risk of injury, partly thickening the mid-section and partly that they don't develop any muscles you can't develop faster with other exercises.

 

OK, it's time to get ready for gym...  it's a deadlifting day LOL.

I am not so sure you won't add meat on the other parts of the body.. shoulders for instance (constant tension on the traps). My point was more that there are so much more muscles involved in doing a deadlift as doing a biceps curl there is so much more potential to grow. Not to mention like you said its a core exercise and a good core is important. I don't view everything from a "i need more muscle" viewpoint but also for what is useful. I think I dead-lift around 1 or 1 1/2 time a week, never again 2 times for long periods. 

 

I love the exercise (and hate it) more for the fact that it incorporates so many muscles and how hard it is. But time for time I think its a great exercise.. you would need to do many exercises just to incorporate the same number of muscles. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I am not so sure you won't add meat on the other parts of the body.. shoulders for instance (constant tension on the traps). My point was more that there are so much more muscles involved in doing a deadlift as doing a biceps curl there is so much more potential to grow. Not to mention like you said its a core exercise and a good core is important. I don't view everything from a "i need more muscle" viewpoint but also for what is useful. I think I dead-lift around 1 or 1 1/2 time a week, never again 2 times for long periods. 

 

I love the exercise (and hate it) more for the fact that it incorporates so many muscles and how hard it is. But time for time I think its a great exercise.. you would need to do many exercises just to incorporate the same number of muscles. 

No matter how much I deadlift, my upper back, shoulders, arms and legs are NEVER the limiting factor. They are all being used at an intensity lower than during my regular upper back, trap, shoulder and leg exercises, so there is no way (for me) that deadlifts will increase the size of any muscle groups other than the spinae erecta muscle group and other supporting muscles of the spine. The limiting factor would be my grip and my lower back. These muscle groups do not contribute much to overall muscle mass. Fairly skinny guys (lower weight classes of powerlifters) can perform very heavy deadlifts relative to their body weight and size.

 

We can have these "king of exercise" debates all day long. I can't prove you're wrong and you can't prove me wrong because no serious weight trainer does just deadlifts so no one is ever going to prove you can or can't build a decent physique with deadlifts alone. Commonsense suggests I am right though. If a rookie decided to only deadlift for a couple of years, he would not have a decent physique at the end of his trial. He will still have skinny arms, shoulders and legs. His midsection would probably protrude too. The interesting thing is that the bodybuilding forums are full of people making sensational claims about deadlifts, yet, in public gyms you hardly see anyone doing them.

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, tropo said:

No matter how much I deadlift, my upper back, shoulders, arms and legs are NEVER the limiting factor. They are all being used at an intensity lower than during my regular upper back, trap, shoulder and leg exercises, so there is no way (for me) that deadlifts will increase the size of any muscle groups other than the spinae erecta muscle group and other supporting muscles of the spine. The limiting factor would be my grip and my lower back. These muscle groups do not contribute much to overall muscle mass. Fairly skinny guys (lower weight classes of powerlifters) can perform very heavy deadlifts relative to their body weight and size.

 

We can have these "king of exercise" debates all day long. I can't prove you're wrong and you can't prove me wrong because no serious weight trainer does just deadlifts so no one is ever going to prove you can or can't build a decent physique with deadlifts alone. Commonsense suggests I am right though. If a rookie decided to only deadlift for a couple of years, he would not have a decent physique at the end of his trial. He will still have skinny arms, shoulders and legs. His midsection would probably protrude too. The interesting thing is that the bodybuilding forums are full of people making sensational claims about deadlifts, yet, in public gyms you hardly see anyone doing them.

 

 

Tropo,

 

I use straps and a belt to overcome the limiting factors as do many other people, I should have mentioned that otherwise sure you can't get big. 

 

Nobody will do just dead-lift, its part of a package I don't disagree there. I think its a useful exercise because it incorporates so many muscles. When I mean king of exercise i mean it ads more to the mix then for instance a biceps curl. Exercises that use many muscles are more efficient then those that don't. You know what i mean the difference between isolation exercises and compound exercises.

 

The reason you seldom see them done is because not many people know how to do them well. You know as well as I do that most people don't build serious muscle. There is just a small group of people who do and who do exercise hard and its rare to catch them unless you go to dedicated gyms. I never knew about dead-lifts as the trainers at my gym preferred to teach people all about machines and not about free weights. Its easier to manage people doing machines. 

 

You also don't see many people do squats or pull overs its just not done by a large group of people training. 

 

I think we both can agree that compound exercises are more bang for your money then isolation exercises. If you extend that then of the compound exercises that we have those that incorporate the most muscles are the most effective (based on time spend on them).

 

So if you can do just 1 exercise the one that incorporates the most muscles will be the best one. But it makes no sense just to do 1 exercise.

 

Anyway I said it before its not always about the most effective way but also about what you prefer to do if you hate deadlifts and it makes you exercise less then don't do it and if you like just do it.

 

I do realize that deadlifts are not for everyone you for instance have a different ratio for your limbs then me. I am lucky its an easier better exercise for me than it is for you. 

 

Anyway I agree with you no 1 exercise will give you a good workout. (maybe rowing but it wont build too much muscle)

[tropo]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Tropo,

 

I use straps and a belt to overcome the limiting factors as do many other people, I should have mentioned that otherwise sure you can't get big. 

 

Nobody will do just dead-lift, its part of a package I don't disagree there. I think its a useful exercise because it incorporates so many muscles. When I mean king of exercise i mean it ads more to the mix then for instance a biceps curl. Exercises that use many muscles are more efficient then those that don't. You know what i mean the difference between isolation exercises and compound exercises.

 

The reason you seldom see them done is because not many people know how to do them well. You know as well as I do that most people don't build serious muscle. There is just a small group of people who do and who do exercise hard and its rare to catch them unless you go to dedicated gyms. I never knew about dead-lifts as the trainers at my gym preferred to teach people all about machines and not about free weights. Its easier to manage people doing machines. 

 

You also don't see many people do squats or pull overs its just not done by a large group of people training. 

 

I think we both can agree that compound exercises are more bang for your money then isolation exercises. If you extend that then of the compound exercises that we have those that incorporate the most muscles are the most effective (based on time spend on them).

 

So if you can do just 1 exercise the one that incorporates the most muscles will be the best one. But it makes no sense just to do 1 exercise.

 

Anyway I said it before its not always about the most effective way but also about what you prefer to do if you hate deadlifts and it makes you exercise less then don't do it and if you like just do it.

 

I do realize that deadlifts are not for everyone you for instance have a different ratio for your limbs then me. I am lucky its an easier better exercise for me than it is for you. 

 

Anyway I agree with you no 1 exercise will give you a good workout. (maybe rowing but it wont build too much muscle)

I actually don't find deadlifts a difficult exercise at all. My form is good. Once you get the form perfected, it's not difficult and a lot easier than squatting. I think I have a good structure for deadlifts but not so great for squats. Of course, I should mention that I don't push deadlifts as close to my limit as I may do on other exercises. For example, I may get very close to my maximum limit on a set of pulldowns, presses or incline presses where I just manage to complete the rep. I won't push deadlifts to that intensity level and finish my set feeling comfortable, but still exert myself enough to get a nice pump in the back. If I feel strong, I'll a bit more weight on the bar, but still not push the reps to failure.

 

I never use a belt. A belt takes away the body feedback. I concentrate on keeping everything tight - you lose that feel with a belt. I have some good belts but stopped using them years ago and my back has improved in health a lot since I did. What I meant by limiting factor is that your lower and mid-back strength (if you wear straps and you aren't limited by grip strength) will ultimately decide how much weight you can deadlift, not your shoulders, arms or legs.

Edited April 8, 2018 by tropo

[robblok]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

I actually don't find deadlifts a difficult exercise at all. My form is good. Once you get the form perfected, it's not difficult and a lot easier than squatting. I think I have a good structure for deadlifts but not so great for squats. Of course, I should mention that I don't push deadlifts as close to my limit as I may do on other exercises. For example, I may get very close to my maximum limit on a set of pulldowns, presses or incline presses where I just manage to complete the rep. I won't push deadlifts to that intensity level and finish my set feeling comfortable, but still exert myself enough to get a nice pump in the back.

 

I never use a belt. A belt takes away the body feedback. I concentrate on keeping everything tight - you lose that feel with a belt. I have some good belts but stopped using them years ago and my back has improved in health a lot since I did. What I meant by limiting factor is that your lower and mid-back strength (if you wear straps and you aren't limited by grip strength) will ultimately decide how much weight you can deadlift, not your shoulders, arms or legs.

I find deadlift the most taxing exercise of all, makes me pant like crazy when i go real heavy. I never had that problem of course when I did not use straps and a belt. Then i was limited a lot so I could not really get as tired as I am now. It does depend a bit on the day too, i don't always want to push it as it impacts the rest of the training. 

 

I did deadlifts a while with belt.. then without and now with again im pretty sure the belt does not take away all the work from my lower back as even with a belt I would not try to do squat after dead-lifts (overtaxing the back) sometimes not even the day after. 

 

I think we are all a bit different on how we train, and its safer to go close to your max on pulldowns. I can get real close to my max on bench-presses at times so close that an extra rep would not be possible. Not always because i find it risky cutting it that close all alone. I think we all have different exercises we got a better feel for then others. Personally I do pulldowns but don't feel them that great. (mind muscle connection)

[tropo]

32 minutes ago, robblok said:

I find deadlift the most taxing exercise of all, makes me pant like crazy when i go real heavy. I never had that problem of course when I did not use straps and a belt. Then i was limited a lot so I could not really get as tired as I am now. It does depend a bit on the day too, i don't always want to push it as it impacts the rest of the training. 

 

I did deadlifts a while with belt.. then without and now with again im pretty sure the belt does not take away all the work from my lower back as even with a belt I would not try to do squat after dead-lifts (overtaxing the back) sometimes not even the day after. 

 

I think we are all a bit different on how we train, and its safer to go close to your max on pulldowns. I can get real close to my max on bench-presses at times so close that an extra rep would not be possible. Not always because i find it risky cutting it that close all alone. I think we all have different exercises we got a better feel for then others. Personally I do pulldowns but don't feel them that great. (mind muscle connection)

I have good mind-muscle connection with everything I do. If I don't have the right connection, I won't do that exercise. The belt offers you some protection in case of going very heavy, near your limit, but you should only use it on your maximum sets and not rely on it too much. Perhaps you might be able to go a bit heavier with a belt, but for what reason would you need to go heavier?

 

Consider this:

 

Belt Pros:

May help prevent injury to the low back during heavy lifts.

Can increase performance.

 

Belt Cons:

Might inhibit motor learning in the abdominal muscles.

Lower Back might not get as strong.

 

Considering that, unless you are competing, no belt is the best option. If you need a belt to lift it, you're using an aid and it's not your pure strength. I definitely understand the improvement of motor learning in the abdominal muscles and my back is stronger because of it.

 

 

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have good mind-muscle connection with everything I do. If I don't have the right connection, I won't do that exercise. The belt offers you some protection in case of going very heavy, near your limit, but you should only use it on your maximum sets and not rely on it too much. Perhaps you might be able to go a bit heavier with a belt, but for what reason would you need to go heavier?

 

Consider this:

 

Belt Pros:

May help prevent injury to the low back during heavy lifts.

Can increase performance.

 

Belt Cons:

Might inhibit motor learning in the abdominal muscles.

Lower Back might not get as strong.

 

Considering that, unless you are competing, no belt is the best option. If you need a belt to lift it, you're using an aid and it's not your pure strength. I definitely understand the improvement of motor learning in the abdominal muscles and my back is stronger because of it.

 

 

I use the belt on the heavy lifts not on the sets going there (so I do non belt work too). I don't always have good mind muscle connection, there are quite a few exercises people rave about that I don't feel at all. I just accepted that I don't feel everything always as good. I am not talking dangerous exercises, for instance its rare for me to get a good pump from lat pull downs i feel them but I can't say wow.

 

My bench presses pretty sure I don't do much wrong but can't say I get amazing feelings in my muscle when I do them. Nothing like triceps exercises or how i feel after some squats, then some lunges and maybe some goblet squats after that (just added the latter to have more leg exercises in leg day). After I done that i feel my legs full of blood and I have trouble getting down the steps. 

 

maybe I am mixing up mind muscle connection with pump. 

 

To add people rave about pull over for either chest or lats.. i feel almost nothing. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by robblok

[robblok]

Last night in bed I was thinking about what you said about going heavy. Maybe its like a runners high, i feel accomplishment about the way I made my body feel. Not the weight per se because I feel the same with the farmers walk i want to go to my limits or close to it.

 

If I were to take a lower weight I would go heavy too, but by adding reps till i feel the last rep is hard to do. Is there much of a difference between the problems you get from going heavy with 8 reps or heavy with 12 reps. I mean in both cases your body can't handle the weight anymore (or not as good). There might be less strain on the joints...  though I am not sure about it as you do more reps so you repeat the strain more. Just theorizing here a bit can't say I know for sure. 

 

One other remark you made in an email about not wanting to look like a powerlifter. I always thought that muscles could only grow one way when stress was put on them. So it does not really matter you will always look the same (as your genetic blue print allows) the only exception is of course when you don't train everything or put more accents on certain movements (like neglect your legs or calf muscles but work your upper body like crazy). I might do stuff heavy and do stuff like deadlifts but I think powerlifters get most of their bulky look from their high fat percentage and genetic blueprint. Just my 2 cents.

 

I don't really train like a powerlifter (no heavy singles or doubles or triples), its rare for me to go below 8 reps its mostly 8 reps or higher. I also have a far more varied program then most powerlifters. I do dead-lifts 1 time a week and every 3 weeks it will be 2 times. But the same goes for other exercises.  The farmers walk that i now do is indeed a powerlifter exercise but unlike the powerlifters i aim for distance not weight. I must say the farmers walk have proven to be invaluable for me. 

 

Not in a fat burning or muscle building way but helping me wake up. After i wake up and shower the first thing I do after I pop some cafeine and turmeric and some anti estrogen tab I head out and do the walking. It wakes me up quite fast and helps me start the day good. I tried to do the same on the rower but it did not really work. I think because I do this outside and its an other kind of heavy that it works. Also its limited to 20 minutes so I don't feel i lose much of my work time. 

 

Anyway time to work more.

[robblok]

Just had a shower, I finished a workout that included dead-lifts ( the only one for the week, if I train back twice ill replace it with something else). Even with a belt its just too heavy on my lower back. I am pretty sure i am training my lower back too (belt or no belt), no pain there but just the feeling of having over used it.  It usually goes away after a while but I think too many of those sessions a week and when you add squat in the mix i think it would put too much strain on the lower back.

 

I did 120 x 8, 130 x 8, 140 x 8 and 150 x 8 last one is the real work set and takes a lot of effort to do the last rep. Unlike squat i feel deadlifts a lot more in my hamstrings and squat more in my quads. Of course i feel the muscles in back and shoulders too. After deadlifts lat pull downs and bend over rows. Then some biceps work (changed my program normally never did separate biceps work) and some ab work.