Thai generals push for 'golden era' when elite held sway

[nidieunimaitre]

People often seem top forget that Thaksin and company are an elite as well. Yes the Shinwatras are an elite, period.

So which brand of menthol do you smoke Amnat or Shin? Seem many would rather fight than switch, but at the end of the day what is the blinkin difference?

It is the fight between old money and new money..... the aristocracy vs new money is often denoted by the new moneyed people not knowing how they should act within society (according the old money).

That fight happened in Europe in the 19th, early 20th century.

Thailand just pushed the REPLAY button.

Give 'm time, let 'm make the same mistakes we made, it is sad to see, but eventually Thais too will learn.

And Thais are lucky really, we in Europe did not have iphones and SUVs in OUR 19th century.

[lapd]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Thanks for the suggestion. After following your advice I have concluded that Thailand is much better off with the Junta. The politicians are just upset that this makes it much harder for them to get their hands in the cookie jar.

So thanks for setting me straight.

Now I have some advice for you. Read this sentence from that article over and over again.

""Thai political parties are different to other countries'... they can be bought,"

Edited March 27, 2015 by lapd

[nidieunimaitre]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Thanks for the suggestion. After following your advice I have concluded that Thailand is much better off with the Junta. The politicians are just upset that this makes it much harder for them to get their hands in the cookie jar.

So thanks for setting me straight.

Now I have some advice for you. Read this sentence from that article over and over again.

""Thai political parties are different to other countries'... they can be bought,"

Thai politicians with their hands in the cookie jar? I like that expression.

But tell me.

Was it only politicians that had their hands in the GT 200 jar?

Sue the lot, rice scammers and GT 200 scammers!

[JOC]

Why dont many of you take off your politically colored glasses and try to see the intent of the (draft) costitution. For years many of the MP dinosaures on both sides were there just to enrich themselves. Taksin took it to a record height. You cannot clean up the amount of filth that has developed without draconian measures. Do you think the farmers can do this?. They are the victims! They have been exploited. Stop using the term "elite", start allowing the educated people to use their capabilities to develop a cleaner and more accountable system of government. Read the intent of the proposed constitution, it curbs the power of politicians because of their terrible past record. It further empowers those fortunate enough to have a better education and understanding of right and wrong to guide future policy makers. Look at how Singapore developed so dramatically over a 30 year period, a strong and honest leader. The current PM is a similar person.

Please do not insult Lee Kuan Yew by comparing him to Prayut!!

And please read the following quote (from another thread) and maybe reconsider your support for the shining knight Prayut:>>>>>Gen Prayut said Section 44 would be exercised in the form of an order of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO). An NCPO order is more powerful than any other forms of laws or orders, he added.<<<<<<<

[lucky11]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Exactly, why can't people see how the General will take this country back in to the dark ages.

And so true, you point it out to them and the morons go, what about Thaksin blablabla, he was so bad blablabla

Lost cause I'm afraid with some.

Last week one of them seriously posted that Thaksin was "the most evil person to come out of Asia"!

I wouldn't put it as bad as that. The most cowardly evil person to have ever been spawned in Thailand is closer to the mark!! I don't know enough about other dictators in Asia to tar him with that brush. There isn't anyone that comes a close second to him BTW.

If you are trying to persuade me 'that it is a lost cause' to make me believe that Thaksin was a decent man that cared about the Thai people' then you are not wrong!!!

I think that it great news that irresponsible populist policies will never play a part in Thai politics.

I feel happy that Thailand's future has been safe-guarded now - I'm sure that the poor and disadvantaged will be better looked after by whoever takes office as the platform has been set so low by Yingluck.

[Eric Loh]

Don't think the NCPO has the guts to approve all the charter undemocratic changes. I see them dropping the unelected PM and full senator appointment but will approve the MMA system. These are the people that love the limelight and popularity and will not like to go down history as architect of a very troublesome charter. They know that the time has changed and the submissive mass are better informed, connected and more politically aware. It's just too big a risk to forcefully push a unpopular charter when the oppositions have now galvanized into a single voice. For all the aggressiveness shown by the PM, he actually a paper tiger and continuously checking and more oncern for his popularity.

[kennw]

Yes Lapd you are correct by reminding us about the quote that Thai politics is different because it can be bought, But so far the PM has not showns of that and in fact has undertaken "cleaning" operations that would not have happened previously. So keep our fingers crossed,

[Muirton]

The Thaitanic sails on. The iceberg waits.

[nidieunimaitre]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

To the 13 likers.

I was joking.

If you liked this post by mistake, feel free to remove your like.

But NO, I will not explain the joke.

I have recently given up explaining my jokes to my wife, as a matter of fact, I have given up joking with her.

I might decide to give up joking on this forum too.

Hey Costas, do pay attention when I talk to you.

[bobmac10]

I have said this from the very beginning.

This always was a reactionary move by the elite to grab back power from the people.

They live in another world.

They couldn't care a sh#t about the Thai people.

The greedy avaricious elite.

They believe they were born to rule.

As we all know, these types of government systems always end up with a violent revolution against them.

And so it will come here too.

[lildragon]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Exactly, why can't people see how the General will take this country back in to the dark ages.

And so true, you point it out to them and the morons go, what about Thaksin blablabla, he was so bad blablabla

Lost cause I'm afraid with some.

Last week one of them seriously posted that Thaksin was "the most evil person to come out of Asia"!

I wouldn't put it as bad as that. The most cowardly evil person to have ever been spawned in Thailand is closer to the mark!! I don't know enough about other dictators in Asia to tar him with that brush. There isn't anyone that comes a close second to him BTW.

If you are trying to persuade me 'that it is a lost cause' to make me believe that Thaksin was a decent man that cared about the Thai people' then you are not wrong!!!

I think that it great news that irresponsible populist policies will never play a part in Thai politics.

I feel happy that Thailand's future has been safe-guarded now - I'm sure that the poor and disadvantaged will be better looked after by whoever takes office as the platform has been set so low by Yingluck.

Aye because all those other military governments in the last 70 odd years had their interests at heart

This is just history repeating itself.

[Rimbuman]

If you read the history of Thai politics from 1933....It is 15 coups all with the same play book and for decades now the same players.Nothing has ever changed. What is sad , When Thaksin became the PM it really did look like things would change. Instead he made a huge grab for more and more power and more money for him and his.One can only imagine what a PM that really had the people in mind could have accomplished.

Totally nonsense,sure Thaksin filled his pockets but so did others before him.Thaksin tried to free Thailand from Generals and Royalists,thats the only reason why he had to go.With Thaksin Thailand was moving forward,now we are going back in time.It's not to hard to see Royalists and Army are afraid of Thaksin because majority of Thais are behind him,that why all those changes in new constitution.Thailand will end up in a civil war,because I don't think the poor north and northeast will watch how junta and royalists take away the rights they got with Thaksin

What rights did they get from Taksin that are going to be taken away by the junta and royalists?

[NeverSure]

Yes Lapd you are correct by reminding us about the quote that Thai politics is different because it can be bought, But so far the PM has not showns of that and in fact has undertaken "cleaning" operations that would not have happened previously. So keep our fingers crossed,

This is just so naive. There is greed for money and there is greed for power. Sometimes it's hard to tell where they separate.

A leader "who is not corrupt" has amassed a large fortune on a soldier's salary, is grabbing power at gunpoint from every direction, is in bed with the elite, and yet is the guy with the white hat on a white horse.

Apparently, according to some posters, that's all good because someone else was just as bad or worse, which I think he was.

I would support the rule of law which forbids both coups and crooked elected people, but maybe that's too much to ask in a morally bankrupt country.

I have no hope for the Thai people because they are morally bankrupt, the leaders keep them uneducated, and this junta isn't the answer either.

[nidieunimaitre]

I have said this from the very beginning.

This always was a reactionary move by the elite to grab back power from the people.

They live in another world.

They couldn't care a sh#t about the Thai people.

The greedy avaricious elite.

They believe they were born to rule.

As we all know, these types of government systems always end up with a violent revolution against them.

And so it will come here too.

Mind you, the elites were doing allright under the last government.

Some shifting between old and new elites, but nothing spectacular.

Live and let live, as the elites, old and new would say. (regarding the poor, that would be: live and let die)

Surely the elites did not need a coup, at least not because of these minor shifts.

But there is something else going on.

The Economist got banned for reporting on it.

And I am not as brave as I would like to be.

Google is your friend.

[JOC]

The only way forward??

[nidieunimaitre]

Silence is golden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n03g8nsaBro

[empireboy]

Some people do not want to evolve on certain levels... how do outsidres to that motivation, force and power respond appropriately without overstepping other's human rights?

[nidieunimaitre]

If you read the history of Thai politics from 1933....It is 15 coups all with the same play book and for decades now the same players.Nothing has ever changed. What is sad , When Thaksin became the PM it really did look like things would change. Instead he made a huge grab for more and more power and more money for him and his.One can only imagine what a PM that really had the people in mind could have accomplished.

Totally nonsense,sure Thaksin filled his pockets but so did others before him.Thaksin tried to free Thailand from Generals and Royalists,thats the only reason why he had to go.With Thaksin Thailand was moving forward,now we are going back in time.It's not to hard to see Royalists and Army are afraid of Thaksin because majority of Thais are behind him,that why all those changes in new constitution.Thailand will end up in a civil war,because I don't think the poor north and northeast will watch how junta and royalists take away the rights they got with Thaksin

What rights did they get from Taksin that are going to be taken away by the junta and royalists?

The right to make mistakes when voting.

PS. In my home country voting is compulsory ( the penalties for not voting are seldom enforced).

But even when I lived there, I never voted, I refused to choose between bad and worse politicians.

However, I will never let anyone take away my right to vote.

[heybruce]

I wonder what makes the CDC believe that the so-called German system will favor small political parties. As far as I can see in Germany there are 2 major political parties: the Social Democrats (SPD) and the Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU). Small parties have very little influence and have almost disappeared (FDP).

Instead of tieing knots with all the dictators in the area the General should rather have a look at the political reality in Germany incl. the German Constitutional Court (BGH), upholding human rights.

No problem, if the voters succeed in electing a government that rattles the wrong cages, the military will just stage another coup.

[heybruce]

There is a question that I've wanted to ask for a long time.....

Yes, we all agree that politicians tend to mess up things.

Yes, it is often said "that the army had to step in to clean up the mess that politicians made".

Yes, that sounds rather reasonable.

But here is my question:

Do you know of 1 example, anywhere in the world, in any time of history, where the army actually cleaned up the mess?

Surely not Galtieri, Jaruzelski, Patakos, Franco, Salazar, Benito, Othello de Carvalho, Pinochet, Yazov, Mobutu, - I hope I have covered all tendancies.

As a matter of fact, I remember that after the "clean up", the politicians had to come back to clean upthe even bigger mess.

So, any enlightening examples?

i suppose general george washington did some positive things

Yeah, but none of the US generals that became president (George Washington, Zachary Taylor, Ulysses Grant, Dwight Eisenhower...there may be a few others) staged a coup and appointed themselves president.

[heybruce]

People often seem top forget that Thaksin and company are an elite as well. Yes the Shinwatras are an elite, period.

So which brand of menthol do you smoke Amnat or Shin? Seem many would rather fight than switch, but at the end of the day what is the blinkin difference?

What say we let the Thai people choose their brand, instead of having one imposed on them?

[heybruce]

If you read the history of Thai politics from 1933....It is 15 coups all with the same play book and for decades now the same players.Nothing has ever changed. What is sad , When Thaksin became the PM it really did look like things would change. Instead he made a huge grab for more and more power and more money for him and his.One can only imagine what a PM that really had the people in mind could have accomplished.

Totally nonsense,sure Thaksin filled his pockets but so did others before him.Thaksin tried to free Thailand from Generals and Royalists,thats the only reason why he had to go.With Thaksin Thailand was moving forward,now we are going back in time.It's not to hard to see Royalists and Army are afraid of Thaksin because majority of Thais are behind him,that why all those changes in new constitution.Thailand will end up in a civil war,because I don't think the poor north and northeast will watch how junta and royalists take away the rights they got with Thaksin

What rights did they get from Taksin that are going to be taken away by the junta and royalists?

Already taken away--elections. right to call for elections, free press, right to criticize the government, right to read "1984" and eat sandwiches in a group in public...

[heybruce]

When the government mess thing up the army can step in to clear said mess up.

When the army is the government the mess is impossible to clear up.

The water might not run down hill. But the country is heading that way.

Heresy! Do you suggest that Prayuth would allow a mess? Seize the infidel!

[MW72]

Why has military rule never worked, in no country?

One reason - obviously - is that usually the military is not concerned about the well being of the country, they only want to protect certain groups, and that can not last forever.

But there are military regimes that honestly mean well, they believe they are saving their country, for the benefit of all.

And yet they too mess up. Why?

Army commanders have a special way of thinking: "when an order is given, it will be executed", and if not, the people responsible for the non complying will be dealt with. Result: at the worst, a short delay (and some dead bodies).

But that is not how human society works.

f ex try to tell lottery sellers to.... euh.... and so on

Or tell business people and workers to put the interests of the country first.

Or even: Return to traditional values! That's an order!

OK, I admit that my examples are a little bit far fetched, I am exaggerating to make my point.

In Greece, Patakos was a fine example of this. He actually went to Athens university to confront the rebellious students, convinced as he was, that he could explain.... And then there was The Genius of The Karpat Mountains, who was laughed away while delivering a speech, holding his scepter, the look on his face was priceless.... Or The Shah, in his interview with Frost, with the same "how-can-they-do-this-to-me" face. The last 2 were not generals, but same style of thinking.

I hate politicians. All of them, the lot. But the military is not an improvement.

If we start thinking from there, maybe we will get somewhere.

In a few hundred years perhaps?

Your comment on Army commanders is spot on. I have worked on a few maintenance contracts on UK military bases over the years and the incompetence of the military is staggering. If the public were aware of the waste of their taxes they would be horrified. Almost every military procurement contract is way over budget and late. Most of these guys wouldn't last in civilian life as they would be sacked, but in the military they get promoted.

I am talking about the ranking officers who actually run things. I believe Lions led by Donkeys was a phrase once coined to describe it.

[nidieunimaitre]

Totally off topic, absolutely no link with Thailand - I already said I am not brave.

Dennis the constitutional peasant.

Click on it, I did not make this up, Palin did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

[icare999]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

sorry better that than scum bag red shirts if its the alternative. Im not elite or rich just a normal person whose built a good life with my thai wife and 2 kids over 30 years but what Taksin and his thugs were trying in last 10+ years seriously threatened my families way of life. If it takes a return to elite who i never liked or mixed with to give peace so be it.

Anything is better than megalomaniac Taksin and his evil clan. After all if i still lived in UK or USA i would be more effected by bankers and rest total control there in my life than I've ever ever been here in last 30+ years.

Stupid PC liberals killed more than any stupid rich elite IMO and ruined more lives

[Tokay]

If the peasants sit back and allow the elite to continue to rule them, then this is exactly what they deserve.

You get the government you deserve. If they don't like it, they can change it.

[Tokay]

Im not elite or rich just a normal person whose built a good life with my thai wife and 2 kids over 30 years but what Taksin and his thugs were trying in last 10+ years seriously threatened my families way of life.

Do you mind elaborating on that? I am really interested in hearing what they did that was threatening their way of life.

[djjamie]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

I'm no Junta lover.

I love peace and stability. I love the law being respected and not ignored depending on which side of the political persuasion you belong to. I love farmers that when told they will be rich in 6 months do not commit suicide because they are in debt.

I am no junta lover because I completely disagree with Prayut for "jokingly" saying he would have journalists killed. I denounce that. Yet others that denounce it defend a PTP minister for calling protestors garbage.

I am no junta lover because I completely disagree with Prayut for not restoring peace earlier in 2014 when terrorists took control of the streets. I denounce that. Yet some that denounce it defend UDD supporters for cheering the deaths of innocent people at the hands of terrorists.

I am no junta lover because I completely disagree with Prayut for saying he will reduce the ivory trade and installing solid obstacles to it that had so far not reduce it. I denounce that. Yet some that denounce it while defending yingluck who stated she will reduce the ivory trade and then 1 month later the trade doubled.

I am no junta lover because I completely disagree with Prayut for saying he will pay off all the farmers debt yet some are still in debt. I denounce that. Yet some that denounce it will defend yingluck who promised 6 times before the PDRC started protesting they would pay it off yet not one was paid off.

How many farmers committed suicide while you read my comments due to a previous promise by the PTP that all farmers will be rich in 6 months. Ironically made by a an unelectable accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal fugitive living overseas.

And you call that democracy!

No wonder Prayut had to come in. AT least he never said he was democratic. He is only restoring it.

Forget who implements the right thing. Forget that. think of the majority that you only harp on when they suit your agenda.

They are the ones that count and they show whole heartedly they support peace and stability ergo the Junta.

Show me evidence they don't? And evidence is not the "All the Thai people i know defense" which is all your peers have left. Because by golly gee the farmers don't back the PTP anymore.

Edited March 27, 2015 by djjamie

[timendres]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

The blind faith in Mr. Absolute Power never ceases to amaze me.

Never in the history of the world has a singular delusional ego, promoted by narrow special interests, brought progress to society.

As Churchill said best - Democracy is the worst form of government, until you compare it to all the others.

The simple truth is that Democracy works best when there is common ground amongst the majority of voters. In the US, we built a large middle class that had common interests which made democratic governance work well. We are now seeing that diminish as the middle class in the US is on the decline. A small middle class with many poor citizens and a few wealthy citizens, seriously polarizes a democracy and makes it difficult to implement. What Thailand needs is more middle class citizens. The problem is how to get there. This is what any current government in Thailand should concern itself with. Accomplish this task, and you will see democracy work for this country and make it's future brighter. Leave the current masses of poor and few elites in place, and this country will remain polarized and continue tearing itself apart.