23 Banks Bombed In South Thailand

[Pakboong]

.....no sane person condones the actions of militant extremists who bomb, kill, booby-trap, mine, shoot innocent civilians. It is not "PC" to refuse to brand people according to their religious beliefs.... If every terrorist was labelled according to their religious beliefs the howls of protest from Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews would be long and loud....and equally justified. See Plus's post for a good summary of some of the political and economic reasons for disaffection in the south. ...

I can't let that stand. You are equating Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews with Islamic terrorism? That's wrong, and insulting.

And don't start telling us about "in the 11th century Christians...blah...blah" using that rational I will fly over to Germany tommorow and start the slaughter, then France, Russia..take your pick.

People can fall to far to the "left" as well as the "right".

The issue here is the definiton of what constitutes "terrorism". IMO the actions of the United States and its allies are the most frightening example of terrorism on this planet. Not content with the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and their arming (arms sales: huge earner) of Israel against Lebanon and Palestine, they now seek to rogue-state Iran because it wants to develop nuclear plants. Say whaat? What right do these countries have to intervene in internal politics, to start wars, to leave certain countries even more unstable and vulnerable in the aftermath of war than they were under dictatorial regimes?

I am saying that the US and its allies are a FAR MORE real and dangerous threat to world peace than the Muslims they choose to demonize as a pathetic sideshow to distract attention from what is really going on under our smug Western noses.

The focus on "Muslim" when talking about extremism and terrorism in the South is not merely a description of a person's religion, it is a very politically loaded term in the current context of the West's and many Thais' Islamophobia. It is a way of putting local problems into a much more significant "global" basket, and eliciting anti-Muslim feelings, which, in turn makes the Thai government look like good guys no matter how they approach the problem.

Very well put!!! Finally, something that makes sense out of this mess.

[dog412]

This thread became a free space for people to vent their pent up anger. Many posts don't even touch the topic, or Thailand at all.

In Southern California spanish speakers were from Mexico, and they got their language in schools, department stores etc.

In Southern Thailand Thai malays have lived their for centuries, and they can't even speak their language with government officials, let alone sign any legal papers.

Just a bit over a month ago Thai government refused to allow use of Malay as a working (not even official) language there.

How many official (not working) languages are in Malaysia, or Singapore? Three-four.

How do you expect people to react? Spit on their ancestors tombs and become "Thai"? They view militants as fighters for a right cause and Thais as extremely corrupt occupants who themselves perpetrate most of the violence and then blame it on muslims. They are convinced that it was Thais who started this new round back in 2001.

remember, there was a "land" in so called pattani, long before the influence of islam. the history is fascinating, and should be used by all attempting to sort this matter out. by the way, i am almost certain, that the official "working" language in singapore is english.

[kmart]

Wonder if this violence will continue when TRT are ousted? It was the removal of the army rangers in the South; to be replaced by the normal Thai ( ) Police that seemed to precipitate the violence in that region. Wonder if it wasn't just Tacky letting some of his cop classmates get their snouts into another trough. And he has never offered a satisfactory explanation (as usual) of the reasons for the violence.

[animatic]

Hi Keith, a valid point.

OKAY, YOU HAD ME UNTILL YOU MENTIONED THE CHURCHES IN THE U.S....THE NUMBER OF MURDERS AMONGST THE LOCAL CHURCHES WHO MAY DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHERS TEACHINGS, IS ABOUT "ZERO"..

The percentage is lower for sure. Yet it is not zero.

And the intolerance is just not as end game violent.

But it also has to do with standard of living,

enforcment of laws and expectation of punishment.

And murder isn't the only go form of violence being done.

It just stops before crossing that line because of

the likelyhood of being caught and jailed.

Now how about if we change this demographic to Northern Ireland.

Or say sections of Indonesia etc. The point is the same,

just the conditions and level of hope is different.

THE NUMBER OF MURDERS AMONGST <deleted> MUSLIM SECTS AND SUNNI SECTS IS ABOUT 10,000 TIMES THAT NUMBER. SERIOUSLY I DON'T KNOW EXACT STATS ON HOW MANY MUSLIMS KILL ANOTHER MUSLIM DAILY AROUND THE WORLD BUT I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 150-250 HOURLY AND THAT WOULD BE WOULD BE VERY LOW.

Christians kill christians daily too, and some compopnent of this is

race and faith related in addition to a large component of greed and need.

This happens more in poor areras with less hope.

ESPECIALLY IF YOU TAKE SUDAN INTO CONSIDERATION.I WISH I WASN'T BIAS, AND I WISH I DIDN'T HAVE A SLANTED VIEW, HOWEVER WHERE I GREW UP THERE WAS A CONSIDERABLE ARAB POPULATION, AND THEY WERE ALWAYS RUDE, ALWAYS COMBATIVE, AND I KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT HOW MOHAMMED DEVELOPTED HIS TOWN OF REFUGE AND HOW THESE MUSLIMS FORMED TO FIGHT OFF OTHER MUSLIMS WHO MIGHT ATTACK THEM.

THATS NOT THE EXACT HISTORY, BUT FACE IT THEY ARE A COMBATIVE ANTAGONISTIC RACE.

Or at least there is an increased press coverage of their infighting.

I have encountered extraordinarily rude christians, jews, budhists and muslems.

Humans are humans and subject to their usual mental ailments and prejudices.

Sometimes renforced by organized philosophical indoctrination.

That said, having done a visa run to Malaysia last time,

I can not imagine living there. Not because I dislike muslems,

but I would chaff strongly against their enforement of social mores.

if they like it fine with me, as long as it is NOT imposed on my.

SOME POEPLE EQUATE ITALIANS TO PASSIONATE LOVERS,-IRISH AS ALCHOHOL DRINKERS-ETC..ETC...LAST POINT THE U.S.A DOES SEEM TO STICK THEIR NOSE IN EVERYONE'S BUSINESS, "SPREADING DEMOCRACY"..LOL...

Please believe, I have been ashamed of Bush since before his 1st election.

I lived in Europe and was agast at his election and relection.

Karl Rove is a genious at pushing the buttons of a suitably large section

of the electorate. I admire and dislke him intensly for that.

Not to say that all previous presidents are above reproach or sans adventurist actions.

I THINK THERE ARE ALWAYS HIDDEN MOTIVES, BUT THE ROOT OF ANYU INTRUSION INTO ANOTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS, IS TO HELP, WHERE THE U.S. GOV., INTERPRETS INJUSTICE. NO ONE COMPLAINS WHEN THE U.S.A. COMES TO THE RESCUE IN NATURAL DISASTERS AND CATASTROPHES AROUND THE WORLD.

They seem to do a better job of that outsdide the USA too.

Agains going to hope vs social violence in some sectors.

THE U.S.A. POURS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS (THAT THE U.S. PEOPLE PAY FOR THRU TAXES-I MIGHT ADD) INTO MANY 3RD WORLD NATIONS AND HAS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS ALL OVER THE WORLD.... THOUGHTS IN U.S. ARE IF WE DON'T DO IT WHO WILL?...AND I POSE THAT QUESTION TO YOU. IF THE U.S. DOESN'T DO IT WHO WILL?..INCLUDING RIGHTING INJUSTICE AND CHALLENGING COUNTRIES WHO WOULD ONE DAY WANT TO EITHER CONVERT ALL TO ISLAM OR DESTROY THE INFIDEL...................................REALLY EXCELLENT RANT- I THINK..................

On the surface yes this is a positive world outlook,

from another point of view it is imposing different and diametrically

opposing values on those who don't want them,

and making a profit, ususally, for big busness at the same time.

Oh yes, it just happens to dovetail the two together so nicely....

Your reposte is clear and has it's points,

my post was NOT intended to,

be a be all end all answer to the worlds troubles.

But a semi anthropological observation,

and refutation of blanket anti-islamic prejudice.

And patrtial explaination of what is likely happening

culturally down south, and some parralells,

to western cultures. No axe to grind,

just observational.

These bomb people are half fringe sect zeolots

and half inept political manipulators.

They can't bring about positive change by dialog,

because they just don't have the skills.

And they are continuousaly indoctrinating new prospects,

with little access to alternate thought.

This is not the fault of islamic schools,

but individuals with an axe to grind.

So they try to make the powers that be look Machiavellian

in a effort to stamp out global islam.

And build their point of view up locally.

While imagining it is a belief truely held world wide.

It would all be so pathetic if so many people weren't

being killed and injured, based on false theology.

Yes there seems an anti-army component to this timing.

But still indiscriminant against all people.

Very much agaisnt the Koran's teachings.

If the south were allowed to elect their own governing choices more directly,

these same zaeolots would start killing anybody running for seats,

as Quizling collaborators.

Of cousre THEY couldn't govern a village without a total melt down.

There are christian zeolots too,

and the same goes for any religion's sects.

In the USA there are thousands of little "churches"

each with a few thousand followers, spread over a region.

Each is JUST as convinced that their lead pastor is

the ONLY TRUE LIGHT.

Some get quite violent against those "polluting society".

From short skirts to gays to absortion Drs.

to anti-poligamist government agents.

Islam as no monopoly on irrational behavior,

in the name of faith in a diety.

MOST muslem people are rational, unbrain-washed,

and willing to live and let live,

as long as less strict interpretations of how to live life,

are not rammed down their throuts.

Whether one religion or another is a better choice for life is

a debate for the ages, as long as it stays debate,

and not physical attack.

Alas mankind has too long a history of

intollerance towards competing philosophies,

to go quietly into the calm good night.

A sad commentary on the human condistion.

If only the world could be as simply black or white,

as GWB's and many others worldview's seem to be.

[Scott]

I went to the bank this morning (in BKK). I had read about the bombings. They were effective in scaring me a bit. I noticed every person in the bank and every bag, box, backpack etc. I sure was happy to finish my business and get out of their.

Paranoia?

[Plus]

remember, there was a "land" in so called pattani, long before the influence of islam. the history is fascinating, and should be used by all attempting to sort this matter out. by the way, i am almost certain, that the official "working" language in singapore is english.

Yes, do any descendants of pre-Islam people still live there? Or are they pure history? People living there NOW are not history. Den Tohmeena, Pattani senator, is related to that Muslim leader arrested and killed by Thais after the WWII I mentioned earlier.

English is one of the official languages in Singapore - to facilitate the communication and promote equality between different ethnic groups, none of which speaks it natively.

When people say that South is stronghold of Democrats they don't mean three muslim provinces. Up until 2005 elections peole there voted NAP and TRT with Wan Muhhamad Nor Matha as their political leader.

[animatic]

Fruitbat

Thank you for the kind words.

I try to observe with an open mind.

An artifact of some anthropological courses in my deep past.

Onward.

There is nationalism in the south,

and there is religious extremism too.

Sometimes they overlap.

And this can confuse observers.

If the violent perpetrators are not clearly taking credit for it,

it is easy enough morph all the potenial dissenters,

into one violent group bringing both philosophies

into equal measure in their plans.

I agree having Thaksin's friends belly up to the trough

down south is very poor planning.

Of course we all know how well he plans ahead.

And how much money controls the logic in

the halls of power in Bangkok.

I have been amazed and nausiated at the parallels between Bush and Thaksin.

Just Bush has better advisors, and he listens to them, before shooting off his mouth,

a higher percentage of the time. He gets in just as much trouble when he improvises

as Thaksin talking on the fly.

Adding Malay to the functioning buureaucratic functions down there,

might likely help, and ease some dissent,

but then that smacks of giving in,

and that is Losing Face...

About as big a no no on Thai culture as you can have,

besides insulting the royal family.

This last point, losing face, is likely the crux of the whole problem...

Compromise is near impossible if your honor is at stake

if you ever back down.

Since Thaksin isn't even inclined to apologise when he is clearly wrong,

why would he even consider compromising with the south,

since he will lose face all over the north.. in his opinion.

So he tries to always make himself look positive,

and never really touches the underlying basic issues.

Sounds like Bush here too.

[BlackJack]

Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more peaceful without the Islam religion. As inoffensive as the religion is supposed to be it's followers seem to contradict it at every opportunity.

there are strong political and economic issues at stake here. I sincerely hope this thread will not degenerate into another occasion for untramelled and unintelligent Islamophobia

read it again dear

Muslim militants launched 23 coordinated time bomb attacks

It is about Islam and making an Islamic region in the south of Thailand

Its about scaring the daylights out of law abiding citizens so that they leave and then the land be inhabited by Islamic extremist

It needs to be discussed / actioned for what it is and without all the PC nonsense

otherwise we will all be as useless as the United Nations

no sane person condones the actions of militant extremists who bomb, kill, booby-trap, mine, shoot innocent civilians. It is not "PC" to refuse to brand people according to their religious beliefs.... If every terrorist was labelled according to their religious beliefs the howls of protest from Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews would be long and loud....and equally justified. See Plus's post for a good summary of some of the political and economic reasons for disaffection in the south.

I agree with you that there is very likely some inspiration from jihadists at work here. This does not mean that there is a "global Islamic threat" as many simple-minded dupes of media propaganda so readily believe every time a bomb goes off. Look at the scale of these attacks...well organised locally but hardly on the scale of the bombing of Iraq, now is it? This is not to dismiss the real and tragic consequences for the families of the dead.

I wish you wouldnt squirm so much when someone puts a hook in you

This thread is about the south - but you bring all this other World historical nonsense in to support your sweaping statements

knock it off and stick to whats happening in Thailand and particularly in the Sth with the Muslim extremists

Bombs, banks, Muslim extremist

[fruittbatt]

I wish you wouldnt squirm so much when someone puts a hook in you

This thread is about the south - but you bring all this other World historical nonsense in to support your sweaping statements

knock it off and stick to whats happening in Thailand and particularly in the Sth with the Muslim extremists

Bombs, banks, Muslim extremist

Thailand is part of a larger world, believe it or not.

When posters to this forum over-simplify this topic by playing that tired pop-song called "global Muslim threat", they are claiming that the problems in the South have a sinister global significance.

It is really easy to see how the association of Thai Muslims living in the south with "international terror" justifies any harsh Thai government/military response to the very real local political and economic problems which remain unresolved for the residents of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat.

The paranoid and angry anti-Muslim rants which have appeared here in this forum demand some analysis of how western media represents global events - since the CNNNNN, FOXXXX, O'Really Malefactor view of world events is what prompts people to react to events in the south in an hysterical anti-Muslim way.

By talking about what else is going down in the world it is possible to see that the current focus on the "Muslim threat" is a huge smokescreen behind which the US and its allies can get on with conquering and economically colonizing the world.

This is NOT irrelevant but essential to a good understanding of the complex world in which we live and the virtual world which determines many people's views of events like the bombings in the south.

[Plus]

Adding Malay to the functioning buureaucratic functions down there,

might likely help, and ease some dissent,

but then that smacks of giving in,

and that is Losing Face...

They didn't have any problems adding Malay and Telagu in Chinese Singapore, or Chinese and Telagu in Malay Malaysia.

National Reconciliation Commission was composed of dozens of prominent Thais and it was them who recommended adding Malay. The proposal was shot down, sadly.

At the moment it's a non-starter as Thailand doesn't have a functioning Parlament or Senate, and the government is busy planting fake bombs.

[jdinasia]

Some folks would do well to read up a bit on Southern Thailand ... and maybe even GO THERE once before making up all this anti-muslim drivel

Here's one decent source

http://www.thailand-travel-guide.de/thailandpattani.html

[thaiintokyo]

my family back ground came from southern thailand (yara). i remember, i used to go there during my summer brake because a large number of my relative have still been living there.

now.

who said they (muslim in that 3 provinces) can not freely speak their own language and/or do whatever they want to do according to their local believe? the kids can speak javee at school. why not?

non-thai muslim in the south also speak javee or at less understand it.

before TRT, it used to be a nice place to go.

yes, PULO has been their long before, but their was under control.

it wasn't this much bombing and all the violence we see today.

they are talking about pattani!!! but don't forget Siam was here too.

this people always refers to whatever time frame that favor them.

what will happen if everyone today do the same?

then changmai would ask for thier independence.

Burma, Cambodia, Laos... all of them was onece here.

but wait!!! what about the time when Siam romed S.E.A?

at the peek of ayutaya, Siam was 2-3 times bigger than thailand today.

yes, we also want all of our land back.!!! why not?

sound stupid, isn't it?

(yes, it sound very stupid to me.)

Edited September 1, 2006 by thaiintokyo

[francois]

Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more peaceful without the Islam religion. As inoffensive as the religion is supposed to be it's followers seem to contradict it at every opportunity.

there are strong political and economic issues at stake here. I sincerely hope this thread will not degenerate into another occasion for untramelled and unintelligent Islamophobia

hi'

I hope so too,

but let me ask you, are you aware of mulsim plans over the world, did you read the coran and study it a bit?

islamophobia? what's this, a new way to disguise the natural repulsion most of people have for this so called religion?

study a bit more and you'll find yourself in this thing you call islamophobia ...

francois

Edited September 1, 2006 by francois

[Losangels]

Wonder if this violence will continue when TRT are ousted? It was the removal of the army rangers in the South; to be replaced by the normal Thai ( ) Police that seemed to precipitate the violence in that region. Wonder if it wasn't just Tacky letting some of his cop classmates get their snouts into another trough. And he has never offered a satisfactory explanation (as usual) of the reasons for the violence.

Very good point made. I firmly believe that when Toxin is booted out of the office the situation in the South will be much better. Though problems will remain however they will be more managable.

[BlackJack]

I wish you wouldnt squirm so much when someone puts a hook in you

This thread is about the south - but you bring all this other World historical nonsense in to support your sweaping statements

knock it off and stick to whats happening in Thailand and particularly in the Sth with the Muslim extremists

Bombs, banks, Muslim extremist

Thailand is part of a larger world, believe it or not.

When posters to this forum over-simplify this topic by playing that tired pop-song called "global Muslim threat", they are claiming that the problems in the South have a sinister global significance.

It is really easy to see how the association of Thai Muslims living in the south with "international terror" justifies any harsh Thai government/military response to the very real local political and economic problems which remain unresolved for the residents of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat.

The paranoid and angry anti-Muslim rants which have appeared here in this forum demand some analysis of how western media represents global events - since the CNNNNN, FOXXXX, O'Really Malefactor view of world events is what prompts people to react to events in the south in an hysterical anti-Muslim way.

By talking about what else is going down in the world it is possible to see that the current focus on the "Muslim threat" is a huge smokescreen behind which the US and its allies can get on with conquering and economically colonizing the world.

This is NOT irrelevant but essential to a good understanding of the complex world in which we live and the virtual world which determines many people's views of events like the bombings in the south.

I think you are drawing a long bow here and analysing this deeper than it really is

These people (islamic extremist) in the South are plain and simply breaking the law

Not in a small way but in a treasonous way (defined as a violation of the allegiance owed by a person to his or her own country)

These Islamic terrorists are Thai - yes or no

If yes then its treason if no then its an act of war to blow up civilians or buildings

lets forget the Islam factor and just see the point of law

However i look at it, you have a government that puts laws and law enforcers in place - however someone pushing their own agenda - in this case Islam - decides that want to scrap exisiting laws and land ownership and start a war

PLEASE lets just stick to THailand on this issue

So in starting a war there have been casualties on both sides - however right is on the side of the Thai Government and they can brand this issue any way they want and they have the legal right and might to squash these law breakers.

So what to do?

Enforce the law

Whatever it takes

However long it takes

Edited September 1, 2006 by BlackJack

[fruittbatt]

Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more peaceful without the Islam religion. As inoffensive as the religion is supposed to be it's followers seem to contradict it at every opportunity.

there are strong political and economic issues at stake here. I sincerely hope this thread will not degenerate into another occasion for untramelled and unintelligent Islamophobia

hi'

I hope so too,

but let me ask you, are you aware of mulsim plans over the world, did you read the coran and study it a bit?

islamophobia? what's this, a new way to disguise the natural repulsion most of people have for this so called religion?

study a bit more and you'll find yourself in this thing you call islamophobia ...

francois

normally i would ignore anyone who believes that it is "natural" to feel "repulsion" toward Muslims, but since you "asked" (ie told) me that i should agree with your xenophobia, let me explain where we differ on this matter.

I do not share your view that there is a "global Muslim plot to take over the world" This is exactly the same rhetoric that the US and its allies has used ever since I can remember. When I was a kid it was "Yellow Peril" and "Reds under the Bed" that were the favored bogeymen of the US and its allies. The "war on Communism" was the excuse to place US bases in many parts of the world, and to invade Vietnam & bomb Cambodia amongst other countries.

There is absolutely nothing "natural" about your repulsion toward Muslims. You are just another sad victim of media indoctrination. You and indeed most of us abhor the actions of extremist groups in killing and wounding innocent bystanders, teachers, aid workers etc. I feel anger at the actions of the Tamil Tigers and the (predominantly) Sinhalese Sri Lankan government for their killings, but this does not mean that I hate Hindus or Buddhists.

I feel particular anger about the shootings of teachers in the southern states of Thailand. Many have chosen to work in the south even though they know that they are likely targets of militants. This does not mean I hate all Muslims. I also feel humungous rage at the mass murder of civilians in Iraq, but that does not mean I hate Christian soldiers.

Perhaps you should examine the (official and unofficial) figues about how many people have actually been killed by the US and its allies since the beginning of this century vs the number killed by other terrorist groups: then you might begin to understand why your "repulsion" is not only "unnatural", but downright misplaced. You might also discover who the real global terrorists are.

[fruittbatt]

I think you are drawing a long bow here and analysing this deeper than it really is

These people (islamic extremist) in the South are plain and simply breaking the law

Not in a small way but in a treasonous way (defined as a violation of the allegiance owed by a person to his or her own country)

These Islamic terrorists are Thai - yes or no

If yes then its treason if no then its an act of war to blow up civilians or buildings

lets forget the Islam factor and just see the point of law

However i look at it, you have a government that puts laws and law enforcers in place - however someone pushing their own agenda - in this case Islam - decides that want to scrap exisiting laws and land ownership and start a war

PLEASE lets just stick to THailand on this issue

So in starting a war there have been casualties on both sides - however right is on the side of the Thai Government and they can brand this issue any way they want and they have the legal right and might to squash these law breakers.

So what to do?

Enforce the law

Whatever it takes

However long it takes

I would be happy to debate this issue in a totally onTT way, but it seems impossible even to for you to do so since you insist that this is not just a local issue but an "Islamic" one. In other words you see it as a largely religiously-motivated issue, not a North-South territorial/economic/rights/justice dispute.

Several posters have tried to explain the issues at stake in the south: notably Plus, JDinAsia, and Johpa. Johpa mentioned the influence of Wahabi Madrasahs on the militant movement in the south, but so far has declined to provide any details to back himself up.

BJ, I am genuinely interested in the local issues here, but disagree with your legalistic interpretation and military solution. Squashing resistance never works: consider the "war on drugs" in Thailand.

What I would like to see in this topic is for a whole bunch of well informed Thais and farangs to share their knowledge and views about events in the south, and the bombings in particular . I'd be very happy to sit down, shut up and learn something.

[BlackJack]

I think you are drawing a long bow here and analysing this deeper than it really is

These people (islamic extremist) in the South are plain and simply breaking the law

Not in a small way but in a treasonous way (defined as a violation of the allegiance owed by a person to his or her own country)

These Islamic terrorists are Thai - yes or no

If yes then its treason if no then its an act of war to blow up civilians or buildings

lets forget the Islam factor and just see the point of law

However i look at it, you have a government that puts laws and law enforcers in place - however someone pushing their own agenda - in this case Islam - decides that want to scrap exisiting laws and land ownership and start a war

PLEASE lets just stick to THailand on this issue

So in starting a war there have been casualties on both sides - however right is on the side of the Thai Government and they can brand this issue any way they want and they have the legal right and might to squash these law breakers.

So what to do?

Enforce the law

Whatever it takes

However long it takes

I would be happy to debate this issue in a totally onTT way, but it seems impossible even to for you to do so since you insist that this is not just a local issue but an "Islamic" one. In other words you see it as a largely religiously-motivated issue, not a North-South territorial/economic/rights/justice dispute.

Several posters have tried to explain the issues at stake in the south: notably Plus, JDinAsia, and Johpa. Johpa mentioned the influence of Wahabi Madrasahs on the militant movement in the south, but so far has declined to provide any details to back himself up.

BJ, I am genuinely interested in the local issues here, but disagree with your legalistic interpretation and military solution. Squashing resistance never works: consider the "war on drugs" in Thailand.

What I would like to see in this topic is for a whole bunch of well informed Thais and farangs to share their knowledge and views about events in the south, and the bombings in particular . I'd be very happy to sit down, shut up and learn something.

mmmmmmm

I dont think you read my post(s) properly

pity

[Plus]

Enforce the law

Whatever it takes

What if those enforcing the laws are the first ones to break it? It's entirely plausible that half the killings in the South are done by Thai forces retaliating for bombings. I'm not saying it's true, but there are reasons to believe so, and precedents, and if two million people believe it, what can you do?

Treasonous they are, but they have their family trees there, stretching back for generations. You can't simply tell them they are not welcome there or relocate them to Isan. You can't force them to become "Thais". Some, reportedly, identify themselves as Siamese - people of Siam, but don't want anything to do with Thai government. They recognise the King, but not the bunch of [Chinese] crooks parading as the government in Bangkok. And they are not alone, btw, 12 million THAIS voiced their dissatisfaction with the current government in April elections.

"They" don't have a political voice, btw. We speculate that they want independence, but I seriously doubt the vast majority of people there really believe in it. All we see is that they are clearly pissed with Thai authorities.

And we have not touched on religion yet.

Thaiintokyo, I didn't say that they can't use Yawi with each other, I said they can't learn it at government schools from their teachers (I believe that's why "pondoks" are so popular), and they can't write legal papers in Yawi, and they can't use it when visiting government offices, including courts etc.

Reportedly.

NRC studied the issue and found it to be the problem. Maybe it was different ten years ago when the situation was calm and noone gave a ###### what language they spoke.

[thaiintokyo]

Thaiintokyo, I didn't say that they can't use Yawi with each other, I said they can't learn it at government schools from their teachers (I believe that's why "pondoks" are so popular), and they can't write legal papers in Yawi, and they can't use it when visiting government offices, including courts etc.

then you see that thai kid in isan can learn Loas or Cambodian language at government school?

or can they use it to write legal papers?

neither minority chinese, india, Burma, japanese .... can do that in thai government school.

if they want their language to be taught at school, why not open one of their own?

don't burn it, don't kill the teacher.

we got a large mumber of chinese-thai minority(including me), i don't see they hang out at the local chinese temple everyday, learning to hate the majority thai, then give what ever s*** to the central gov and all of thai as a whole, and blame their poority upon another people.

they rather go out and work.

you see mr.T? he is a minority chinese(a bad one) from changmai. anyway, thai proof that minority can become the country PM too.

to those muslim, you just need to do it for your own. thai gov is just a corruption gang of people, they are not the muslim god. they are not going to give you the money, and every thing you wish.

neither your god would do. do it for your self. GO OUT AND GET YOUR SELF A JOB.

thai gov today is a big thai social problem. thais need to do some thing about it,

but the way we (and most of the people in another country) do, surely not the bombing and killing.

those people did only the bombing and killing, then you expect thais and/or anyother minority to smile and say mai-pen-rai?

any people in any country on this planet do that? give me the name.

this muslim need to behave. if they don't know how to behave then some body need to teach them.

(but i don't think TRT can do the job!!!) i say teach, not kill or hurt them.

i don't see the anti TRT did the bombing. (except taksin want to bomb his own house!)

i don't know what problem this muslim have with TRT, but the killing of the innocent is "wrong"

the solutionb they use to approach their problems is wrong, and then they turn to the social problem them self, which is suck.

don't you think so?

and muslim community do almost nothing to reject this bad blood.!!!

is it common for muslim to keep their mouth shut for what ever the #%*! their people did, but screem it as loud as they can when the non-muslim did what ever they don't like?

and if anyone thing pattani is real and it should become a new country, then i say, thai also deserve all of our land back as well. and the southen part of siam wasn't ended up only the samll village of pattani. it went a lot farther beyond that.

in fact every country can do the same, and the world is going to be a lot better place for our kids to live!!!

you got a good sample in some part of the middle.E now.

Edited September 2, 2006 by thaiintokyo

[Sing_Sling]

Plus wrote:

but not the bunch of [Chinese] crooks parading as the government in Bangkok

I was in full agrement with you until you made the same mistake as the McCarthy-diciples in labelling all politricians as Chinese and as crooks = ergo sum = All Chinese are crooks.

Quite a silly comment and this detracts from your contribution . . . why generalise as badly as all the Muslim bashers? You have now reached equality status with them . . . doesn't sit well, does it?!

As for the Muslims in the south . . . of course they have a grievance to be aired and decades of neglect by the rulers in Bangkok with ttheir idiotic policies of mock-appeasement and suggestions of bounties on 'extremist' heads simply make the situation worse. They are aof a different ethnicity, religion, geography . . . all signs of being different.

Problem resolution is not high on the priority list of Thailands elite - it is a matter of 'crushing the rebellion', not discussion.

[BlackJack]

Plus wrote:

but not the bunch of [Chinese] crooks parading as the government in Bangkok

I was in full agrement with you until you made the same mistake as the McCarthy-diciples in labelling all politricians as Chinese and as crooks = ergo sum = All Chinese are crooks.

Quite a silly comment and this detracts from your contribution . . . why generalise as badly as all the Muslim bashers? You have now reached equality status with them . . . doesn't sit well, does it?!

As for the Muslims in the south . . . of course they have a grievance to be aired and decades of neglect by the rulers in Bangkok with ttheir idiotic policies of mock-appeasement and suggestions of bounties on 'extremist' heads simply make the situation worse. They are aof a different ethnicity, religion, geography . . . all signs of being different.

Problem resolution is not high on the priority list of Thailands elite - it is a matter of 'crushing the rebellion', not discussion.

It is simple

you play by the rules

when you want to change the rules then you do it properly

As it stands now - right or wrong - the people making the rules have every legitimate right to do whatever it takes.

short cutting the system of change is whats happening now

reaching for the gun and blowing everything up is not playing by the rules and so the penalty will be severe

Its not a matter of the chicken and the egg or who or what came first

Its a matter of the here and the now - Now the Thai government is in legitimate control of the country and I predict is planning a big change for the south.

Hows that I didnt mention Muslim or Islam once

[Sing_Sling]

Its a matter of the here and the now - Now the Thai government is in legitimate control of the country

And living uder repressive conditions does not give anyone the right to object . . .

Khmer Rouge murders

Nazi Germany' mass murders

Facist Italy's mass murders in Ethiopia

Bush's USA lots of crap everywhere

Indonesia's occupation of Timor/Papua/Aceh

Australia's near eradication of Aborigines

China's invason/annexation of Tibet

I guess you're right . . . we should simply accept what our 'rulers' decide.

[jdinasia]

Its a matter of the here and the now - Now the Thai government is in legitimate control of the country

And living uder repressive conditions does not give anyone the right to object . . .

Khmer Rouge murders

Nazi Germany' mass murders

Facist Italy's mass murders in Ethiopia

Bush's USA lots of crap everywhere

Indonesia's occupation of Timor/Papua/Aceh

Australia's near eradication of Aborigines

China's invason/annexation of Tibet

I guess you're right . . . we should simply accept what our 'rulers' decide.

Oh ... you may as well go back to old King George for the usa.....

[BlackJack]

Its a matter of the here and the now - Now the Thai government is in legitimate control of the country

And living uder repressive conditions does not give anyone the right to object . . .

Khmer Rouge murders

Nazi Germany' mass murders

Facist Italy's mass murders in Ethiopia

Bush's USA lots of crap everywhere

Indonesia's occupation of Timor/Papua/Aceh

Australia's near eradication of Aborigines

China's invason/annexation of Tibet

I guess you're right . . . we should simply accept what our 'rulers' decide.

as i suggested to fruitbatty

dont cast a wide net to support your argument otherwise we will be back to who threw the first stone

keep it now - keep it current or you will end up as indecisive as the UN

[george]

Update:

Bank customers face tighter security

Bank customers nationwide might soon have to have their bags checked as part of tightened security in the wake of Thursday's bomb blasts at 21 banks in Yala province.

"From now on, we will have to carry out stringent security checks, which may inconvenience some customers. For example, bags will have to be examined," Khunying Jada Wattanasiritham, chairwoman of the Thai Bankers' Association (TBA), said yesterday.

The security measures will be most strict in branches in the three southern border provinces. But how and when the stringent measures are implemented will depend on each bank, she said.

The TBA yesterday held a meeting to discuss additional security measures for banks in the South.

Jada also recommends bank customers use electronic means, such as Internet or telephone banking, rather than carrying out transactions over the counter, as it is safer.

The TBA also plans to set up a special committee to monitor the unrest in the South that will act as an intermediary for the exchange of information on the situation and on the development of a security system.

Jada said the TBA would put forward a suggestion to the Bank of Thailand to allow more relaxed opening times for banks in some Southern areas. Some branches already open at 9am, half an hour later than branches in other provinces, and close for the day at 3pm, half an hour earlier.

"Some branches in remote areas will open later and close earlier," she said.

Commercial banks, however, do not plan to stop their expansion plans in the three southern provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat, nor are there any plans to close branches in the area.

There have been no reports of staff from the branches that were attacked requesting transfers to other areas, as most of them are local residents.

Speaking on behalf of the president of Siam Commercial Bank, Jada said the bank would consider increasing security measures at its southern branches. Security there is already higher than at other branches in the country, both in terms of personnel and equipment.

Prasarn Trairatvorakul, president of Kasikornbank, said it too would be tightening its security in the South. The bank might install bomb detectors or mobile-phone signal censors, and will bring in additional closed-circuit TV cameras.

Meanwhile, two securities brokers - Kim Eng Securities (Thailand) Plc and United Securities Plc - have confirmed their trading rooms in Yala province will not shut down. These are the only brokers with a presence in the three southern provinces. Kim Eng Securities has one branch, while United Securities has two.

Although the bomb blasts may have knocked investor confidence, the government will be able to control the unrest, Kim Eng Securities' CEO Montree Sornpaisarn said.

"We will not shut down our outlet in Yala province it would cause unemployment. Besides, the branch is profit-making. I have told my staff in the area to be prudent," he said.

United Securities' managing director Sudthida Chirapatsakul said her company's outlets were operating as normal.

"After the bombs, we talked to staff in the area and most of them were not concerned. Our customers are still trading and not worried about late settlements," she said.

-- The Nation 2006-09-02

[highdiver]

the true intention of Terror is not only to cause injuries but to create a state of chaos and interrupt the daily routine.

The security checks at Airports and the new security checks at banks are exactly the result of the Terror actions.

Violence has allways existed but mostly used as a means to achieve a political agenda as a target.

countries have gone to wars not because of ideals but to achieve a better state of intrests when diplomacy fales.

there is a big difference between fighting for you freedom, war or any armed conflict to achieve a traget and "fanatic terror"that only aim is to terror for the sake of violence.

The latest bombings are a good example of terror method used not to create or achieve goals but terror for the sake of terror.

I have posted before and was taken off and hope fully this time the moderaotr will be kind enough to allow me express my views even if some of the readers may find them disturbing.

The Muslims have nothing to do with Terror. it is Muslim radical extremist that are causing the problems.

The Muslim leaders and the muslim holy man should publicly stand out against this.

There are many Muslims comunities around the world who are looking to lead a peacfull life, however over the past 20 years the extreme muslims are a growing influnce and they are preaching to act with violence against any one or anything that they see as anti Islam.

They tend to give new and radical interpertations to islam and use it as a means of creating anarchy.

One would expact the leaders of such comunities to stand out against the violence but they dont!!!

maybe because they too are scared from them.

one of the tactics they use is to insert a radical extermist to the community preferbly as a holy man and then use his influence to create a new generation of extermists who are led to belive they are following the commands of god.

this is happening all around the worls where muslim communties are systematicley infeltrated by extremists who brain wash the muslim followers. As no one opposes them the influence is wide spreading like a bush fire.

Islam is the religion of peace. however they are being taken over slowly but surely by extremist who have decided to give a new meaning to the holy koran. They teach and preach to violence

and create a growing population of people who belive that "death in the name of god" is a true way of beliving.

When a muslim beliver is brain washed to belive that he may aqquire a place in heaven along with 40 virgins then he is not realy a muslim any more. and his actions have nothing to do with Islam.

unfortunatley the influence of the exremist is growing stronger every day and more and more brain washed killers and terrosits are threatning our way of life.

The only solution is for the Muslim comunties,countries, and leaders is to step in and condem the violence. and condem all those who do so in the name of Islam.

The growing influence of such extremists is a threat not only to south Thailand but to all the region and the world.

We should take this events very seriously as they will continue with more violence to come.

[Sing_Sling]

Its a matter of the here and the now - Now the Thai government is in legitimate control of the country

And living uder repressive conditions does not give anyone the right to object . . .

Khmer Rouge murders

Nazi Germany' mass murders

Facist Italy's mass murders in Ethiopia

Bush's USA lots of crap everywhere

Indonesia's occupation of Timor/Papua/Aceh

Australia's near eradication of Aborigines

China's invason/annexation of Tibet

I guess you're right . . . we should simply accept what our 'rulers' decide.

as i suggested to fruitbatty

dont cast a wide net to support your argument otherwise we will be back to who threw the first stone

keep it now - keep it current or you will end up as indecisive as the UN

I'd have to disagree. For a statement as definitive as yours, there would never have been upheavals against terror/tyranny/injustice.

I actually find it quite laughable that you, or anyone, would advocate the status quo based simply on the principle of here and now.

What you don't seem to realise is that these people are treated as second-class citizens and you expect them to simply accept it. Would you?

[Plus]

There's a joke: Where's Chinatown in Bangkok? It's in the parlament building.

"Chinese question" doesn't stand high on the agenda in Thailand, and it's good that Chinese were able to integrate in the society. Sondhi, chief Thaksin's protagonist looks very Chinese to me, btw.

Things MIGHT look very different from southern muslims point of view. They might think that Thais with whom they lived in peace for about a decade have been sidelined and current politicians (many of them Chinese businessmen) don't care about the country the way Thais of the previous generation did. Note that I put Chinese in brackets in the original post. It's just one possible dimension to the problem.

Army chief Sonthi, who is btw mulsim, is very frustrated with the manner the government handles southern unrest, and so are lots of field commanders. He just announced that he's ready to start talks with "separatists" in direct contradiction to the government policy. That is highly unusual and is close to mutiny as the army cannot ignore orders from Defence Minister. But then the Defence Minister is a known crook with no respect left.

I don't think comparison between Isan and the South is a valid one. Do they have "Isan" schools there? Do they feel like they need them? Because in the south they fill the void left by "Thai" education with pondoks and they are very proud of their pondoks, too, but the government does not recoginse them, unfortunately. Only recently there have been attempts to integrate them into education system.

As for the government having control over the country - not in the South. When Thaksin tried to keep open shops and markets on Fridays, no one listened to him. He has guns and offices, but no authority. The government is feared and tolerated there, no more no less. Some people challenge it openly, some stay quiet, I doubt anybody loves it.

Many people believe that it's the government that does most the killings. News reports have very little weight there, no one trusts them, they are known liars who have to toe the government line.

It's believed that the raid on army barracks back in 2004 has been staged by the government. Outrageous, but not entirely impossible. Guns went to Acheh, soldiers were killed because the hired group was out of order, it wasn't in the plan.

In the initial phase, from 2001, it was believed that it was a turf war between the army and the police, not muslim insurgency, even by very keen observes.

What we have now is a total breakdown of trust and communication between the government and two million of people with violence commited by both sides, not a loyal population terrorised by the handful of extremists as would appear on the surface.

[jdinasia]

What we have now is a total breakdown of trust and communication between the government and two million of people with violence commited by both sides, not a loyal population terrorised by the handful of extremists as would appear on the surface.

I am not SURE that is an accurate statement. I do think the number of active insurgents are pretty small but getting more organized. I spent only a week down in Hat Yai and the area surrounding recently and am FAR from being conversant in either Southern Thai or Yawi but it seems that the common folks are just as scared and concerned there as you would expect them to be with bombs going off at places they also use! I am sure there is a good bit of anti-chinese businessman sentiment in the deep south. Fortunately that minority does NOT have all the business in the area sewn up! Therefore the ethnic Chinese community is not very harrassed. The same can be said that not too much in the way of 'tourist attractions' including shopping are being targetted. <Kids go to malls ... Malay tourists shop ... etc>

I think there are solutions ... a semi-autonomous area that swears allegiance to the King and the State where local languages and history aretaught honestly alongside Thai language and civics would be a good start! Let the South have its own governors etc!

"Pay your taxes!

Be good citizens

Learn Thai

and then you can do whatever you want! Including

Speak Yawi/Malay officially

have true religious freedom <with the same limits that Thais do ... Official/peaceful Dhamma taught in Thailand ... you guys keep with official/peaceful Islam"

etc