Unethical Doctors at Bumrungrad

[ghworker2010]

I was at Bumrungrad recently and had some blood tests done by an Endocrinologist. An anomaly in the results was found and I informed the dr that this same issue was in some blood tests that I had done over a year ago. I asked the Dr for reasons causing this issue and she could not explain it. She said that I would have to see a Hematologist Dr.

So I went down to that dept on a different level and there were no patients (customers might be a better word) waiting. My question was simple and I asked this old Dr to explain the anomaly and he refused to at the beginning of the appointment. It turned into a long and drawn out appointment asking all sorts of irrelevant things- some nothing to do with my health. Then he said he had to do a physical check on my body... In the end I (assertively) asked him to answer the question and he gave a quick answer. I got up to walk out and I can't remember the context of the conversation but he was talking about the health benefits of eating tomatoes blah blah blah

I literally had to walk out the door and obviously realised that this game was all about the charging time for the appointment. The bill came to thb1800 for a 1 min answer to my issue.

The moral to the story is that I should have been more assertive with the old Dr who was clearly just out for the money. I do wonder if the Endocrinologist Dr gets a small commission for this referral to another Dr. It is duly noted that the Endocrinologist Dr had previously tried to push me into having an ultrasound on my thyroid. I refused telling her that I would prefer to wait to see the thyroid blood test results first (which ended up being normal).

This unethical attitude displayed by medical staff obviously exists in many countries around the world. It's common knowledge, for example, that extreme overcharging happens in the hospitals in Bali. A few years ago I was overcharged in Bali but luckily the health insurance paid that one.

It's a disgrace that these people are so greedy and unethical. I suppose just because they have Dr in front of their name it doesn't mean that they are different from anyone else.....

[Forkinhades]

Google is your friend

[Sandman77]

Was there for dengue treatment years ago , everthing was fine because my travel insurance pay the bill of around 3500€ for 5 days!

I feeled like a king 7 pillows fresh roses every day, a seperate woman for the newspaper!

30 nurse in one floor , that want check my blood pressure and temperature every 20 minutes ,all of them was very beutiful I feeled like in the little of a beauty contests !

A separate woman Talk with me a half our what i want eat!

A separate bed for my wife!

Food also Include in room Price for her, And it was Even more tastfull then in Bangkok Hospital!

There was also a Seperate Transistor if needed!

Doctor Asistance 24 h, checked my Blood in night time and change medicine during night!

Then later I begin ask the direct dialing number of each dr enter my room , I got them imidiatly , and can call them directly from my room phone!

So for me I can say only positive about bangrunggrad !

For sure some treatment ,was not realy needed , but and the end it was a outstanding service!

Much better then the service deserts of European gov hospitals in my home country where you feel like the 5th wheel!

[MrEnigma]

Are you seriously comparing a private hospital with a public one?

Lol

[NickJ]

I could write volumes on this place. Then more than likley be sued, blacklisted and then deported. For me....when driving by the place my skin crawls.....and then when I here or read what some knob writes about how great the place is I have to force the bile back down.....

[uptheos]

Was there for dengue treatment years ago , everthing was fine because my travel insurance pay the bill of around 3500€ for 5 days!

I feeled like a king 7 pillows fresh roses every day, a seperate woman for the newspaper!

30 nurse in one floor , that want check my blood pressure and temperature every 20 minutes ,all of them was very beutiful I feeled like in the little of a beauty contests !

A separate woman Talk with me a half our what i want eat!

A separate bed for my wife!

Food also Include in room Price for her, And it was Even more tastfull then in Bangkok Hospital!

There was also a Seperate Transistor if needed!

Doctor Asistance 24 h, checked my Blood in night time and change medicine during night!

Then later I begin ask the direct dialing number of each dr enter my room , I got them imidiatly , and can call them directly from my room phone!

So for me I can say only positive about bangrunggrad !

For sure some treatment ,was not realy needed , but and the end it was a outstanding service!

Much better then the service deserts of European gov hospitals in my home country where you feel like the 5th wheel!

Bed Rest

Paracetamol

Prevent dehydration

3,500 Euro's for 5 days........boy, did they do a number on you!

[sfokevin]

^^^ In my home country you would have had to make another appointment with the specialist... Come back another day...

Wait 2 hours and get the same doctors reply for the equivalent fee of 3,500 baht...

Bumrungrad is a dream...

Edited March 28, 2015 by sfokevin

[loppylugs1]

Medical mafia of Thailand Long may it rule

[Sandman77]

Sure there was more treatment then realy needed like we must X-ray your body that was not have something to do with dengue this why price was higher but when insurance pay also you got tons of useless medicine in bang kok hospital , I told then many times that I have sonetimes high blood pressure please select medicine for me that not make blood pressure in side effect more high , yes we do sir don't worry

3 day later fly back home give Thai medicine to doctor in eu land he only smile and put medicine in bin all the gave me makes blood pressure more high!

Means even a doctor you canot trust also

[ghworker2010]

I could write volumes on this place. Then more than likley be sued, blacklisted and then deported. For me....when driving by the place my skin crawls.....and then when I here or read what some knob writes about how great the place is I have to force the bile back down.....

how can you be sued exactly. this is an anonymous forum and you are an anonymous member. As long as you dont mention dr names...

[Sheryl]

I think "unethical" is overstating it quite a bit.

The endocrinologist did not feel competent to explain the lab result. Not at all usual in Thailand. Specialists here have extreme tunnel vision --- true everywhere, but even more so here. While they will often have gotten their specialty training abroad the quality of their basic training may not have been as good plus they may have had very, very little GP-type experience. (and no, they do not get a "commission" for referring you to another doctor).

If the 1800 baht bill for the hematologist was total cost (i.e. inclusive of the hospital add-on) this is pretty standard charge for a specialist consult at Bumrungrad (and yes, it is high....this is an expensive hospital). I grant you he doesn't sound very impressive, but I don't really see where "ethics" comes into p[ay. Would have cost the same if he had simply answered your question and nothing more, and there is no indication he tried to order unnecessary tests or provided inappropriate treatment.

[scoutman360]

I frequent Bumrungrad a lot and the service has always been exceptional. I even had major surgery there, spend 3 wonderful days in the hospital spoiled by a plethora of beautiful nurses, and was operated on by 3 surgeons... the one that saw me regularly, his boss, and a specialist. So far so good.

I get your frustrations, and it sounds justified. I just want to share with you my own horror stories from medical practitioners in the U.S., so please keep in mind that incompetence is everywhere. I had appendicitis and 2 moron doctors told me over 2 weeks I just had food poisoning. It wasn't until my appendix ruptured and I was rushed to the emergency room that the truth unfolded. All this done by U.S. professionals. I nearly died.

[Satcommlee]

Doctors do work in pairs in Thailand... one will refer you to his mate etc..

Same thing happened to my new born son, he failed a ear test when he was born and we ended up seeing a "very revered" female ear specialist in the BKK Pattaya hospital (A professor), who ordered some sort of advanced test and then referred us to some other doctor for a neurological study.... needless to say he was absolutely fine and there was nothing wrong with him....

This was within months of his birth, when we were at our most vulnerable and worried - it was a blatant scam!

Edit: The regular pediatrician told us the real reason for failing the ear test at birth, it was simply amniotic fluid (womb juice) in the ear!

Edited March 28, 2015 by Satcommlee

[inbangkok]

If you don't want to pay a premium for premium service and medical care, why go to Bumrungrad? I don't understand it. Nothing you mentioned constitutes unethical behavior. You are simply mad because you paid a premium price for something that you simply din't feel was "worth it" when all was said and done. Were you unaware that Bumrungrad is a for profit hospital and business with premium pricing?

Edited March 29, 2015 by inbangkok

[Sheryl]

Doctors do work in pairs in Thailand... one will refer you to his mate etc..

Same thing happened to my new born son, he failed a ear test when he was born and we ended up seeing a "very revered" female ear specialist in the BKK Pattaya hospital (A professor), who ordered some sort of advanced test and then referred us to some other doctor for a neurological study.... needless to say he was absolutely fine and there was nothing wrong with him....

This was within months of his birth, when we were at our most vulnerable and worried - it was a blatant scam!

Edit: The regular pediatrician told us the real reason for failing the ear test at birth, it was simply amniotic fluid (womb juice) in the ear!

Doctors refer to specialists they know/have confidence in (as an unsuccessful referral will reflect badly on them). I would hardly call that "working in pairs".

The tests you mention constitute "erring on the side of caution", to make sure there was not a serious cause.

You seem to feel that they should have made no referrals, done no tests, and just assumed it was nothing serious. Now, in your case it turns out it indeed wasn't, so that would have been fine. But this is not true of every case and there was no way to be sure at that time that it was in yours.

Weighing the risks of unnecessaery tests/consultations on one hand against possible failure to diagnose and treat a serious problem early on the other, and most people would opt for the former.

[brewsterbudgen]

If you don't want to pay a premium for premium service and medical care, why go to Bumrungrad? I don't understand it. Nothing you mentioned constitutes unethical behavior. You are simply mad because you paid a premium price for something that you simply din't feel was "worth it" when all was said and done. Were you unaware that Bumrungrad is a for profit hospital and business with premium pricing?

Indeed, what did the OP expect? Personally, while being expensive, I have never been less than satisfied with the medical treatment there.

[transam]

Are you seriously comparing a private hospital with a public one?

Lol

Is there any difference..........?

[Robby nz]

Are you seriously comparing a private hospital with a public one?

Lol

Is there any difference..........?

As no one has answered you for 3 hours I will make an attempt.

For a start private hospitals are 'for profit' businesses while public hospitals are (usually, partly) Govt funded service hospitals, however if you or I go there we will be charged but at a much lower rate that at a private hospital.

In regard to the hospital on this topic, it positions itself at the top end of private hospitals and attempts to provide a service in line with that position with quality staff and all the trimmings and of course charges accordingly.

They say they have top, if not the top doctors, whether this is true or not is another thing for there are many highly qualified doctors at public hospitals as well, but as with any business they advertise their services so slight embellishment may be expected.

Most Thai's cant afford to use private hospitals which means that public hospitals are far more crowded and anyone who goes there waits their turn, no priority service except for accident cases where life is in danger.

[ghworker2010]

I think "unethical" is overstating it quite a bit.

The endocrinologist did not feel competent to explain the lab result. Not at all usual in Thailand. Specialists here have extreme tunnel vision --- true everywhere, but even more so here. While they will often have gotten their specialty training abroad the quality of their basic training may not have been as good plus they may have had very, very little GP-type experience. (and no, they do not get a "commission" for referring you to another doctor).

If the 1800 baht bill for the hematologist was total cost (i.e. inclusive of the hospital add-on) this is pretty standard charge for a specialist consult at Bumrungrad (and yes, it is high....this is an expensive hospital). I grant you he doesn't sound very impressive, but I don't really see where "ethics" comes into p[ay. Would have cost the same if he had simply answered your question and nothing more, and there is no indication he tried to order unnecessary tests or provided inappropriate treatment.

The simple fact is that I was there and you were not sheryl.

The hemetologist was wasting my time talking about issues and things that had absolutely nothing to do with the reason I was seeing him. He was after a long appointment and he succeeded. He is unethical as he is driven by money.

Since writing this thread Ive read numerous others on this forum and several members also talk about the 'profit for medicine' attitude that exists in Bumrungrad. You only have to get the bill from the pharmacy dept to see their 100% mark up on prices.

cheers

[Sheryl]

"profit for medicine" attitude?

This is a for-profit private hospital. As are most of the other private hospitals in Thailand. No secret, nothing concealed, and no reason to go there expecting them not to be interested in making money.

That does not make them unethical, unless they resort to unsafe or inappropriate medical practice to do it, which your post does not suggest.

There is noth9ng in medical ethics that precludes making a living from it or (in the case of institutions like hospitals), a profit.

However since you personally consider it unethical to make money through the practice of medicine, I strongly suggest you in the future stick to government hospitals or the few not-for-profit private ones.

[bkkgooner]

I went to Bumrungrad to see a specialist there based on a recommendation from this forum. Three visits in the space of four days and a disturbing amount of tests later I was down nearly 30,000 baht and no closer to the solution of my problem. I won't be setting foot in the place again.

It's pretty depressing to see so many doctors who are apparently great at their job do their best to get as much money as possible out of each patient.

[loppylugs1]

Are you seriously comparing a private hospital with a public one?

Lol

Is there any difference..........?

As no one has answered you for 3 hours I will make an attempt.

For a start private hospitals are 'for profit' businesses while public hospitals are (usually, partly) Govt funded service hospitals, however if you or I go there we will be charged but at a much lower rate that at a private hospital.

In regard to the hospital on this topic, it positions itself at the top end of private hospitals and attempts to provide a service in line with that position with quality staff and all the trimmings and of course charges accordingly.

They say they have top, if not the top doctors, whether this is true or not is another thing for there are many highly qualified doctors at public hospitals as well, but as with any business they advertise their services so slight embellishment may be expected.

Most Thai's cant afford to use private hospitals which means that public hospitals are far more crowded and anyone who goes there waits their turn, no priority service except for accident cases where life is in danger.

All will have come a long way(in miles) to be here,that does not mean you have to be treated here,if there is an option go back to home country ,especially Europe.

There are other options too ,try Malaysia or India ,excellent medical care and truly affordable. Other ex past web sites operate in these two countries too,seek advice from them,just a couple of hours away the first option 3 hours the next if you think you are going to be shafted by Thailand medical mafia

[inbangkok]

I went to Bumrungrad to see a specialist there based on a recommendation from this forum. Three visits in the space of four days and a disturbing amount of tests later I was down nearly 30,000 baht and no closer to the solution of my problem. I won't be setting foot in the place again.

It's pretty depressing to see so many doctors who are apparently great at their job do their best to get as much money as possible out of each patient.

Yeah.... Those criminal Dr's trying to make a living.... Lol.... Get real.

This is their profession! They are not volunteers! This is how they feed their families. If you don't like the prices, go wait on line for 4 hours at a government hospital to see a Dr that can barely speak English. Then, wait another 2 hours to get your meds from the pharmacy. All in all..... It will be a few hundred baht.

People really need to stop complaining about the prices at Bumrungrad...... No one forces anyone to go there.

[moe666]

A friend of mine was refered to a foot Dr. back in the states who has been involved in the deaths of two patients and the crippling of two more patients. These things are on his recod with the state medical board but because of technicality he is allowed to continue to pratice medicine and the hospital continues to refer patients to him, why because he runs the people thru his office and makes money for him and the hospital. Now this is incompetence with lots to go around as well as being unethical.

Edited March 30, 2015 by moe666