pattayasnowman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I always assumed forward momentum and glide ratio would prevent a plane from falling from the sky?Any aircraft can stall at any speed. When it stalls, sometimes the pilot can reestablish laminar flow over the wings and sometimes they cannot. In any case it takes time to recover from a stall and during that time, it falls like a lead balloon. I have some doubt that any aircraft can stall at any speed as you state. I believe there is a certain stall speed associated with any fixed wing aircraft. It would be interesting to be proved wrong though. You can have a High Speed Stall and a Low speed stall In the case of the former the AirFlow is dispupted on the top of the wing surface a shock wave forms due to the airflow exceeding the speed of sound The latter case , which is more common, is due to the Angle of Attack being too high and the thrust (forward speed ) too low cause a loss of lift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Oh nooo, more bad news for thai aviation. Who will fly with any of them from now on? Not me or my collegues.... But this happened saturday? Then why it's in the news on tuesday?? Because the journalist are afraid of being shot by a certain prime minister/general. Cheap shot, much? Member for nine years and 895 posts. That's a hundred posts a year. I think you are a troll.Member 5 years, 4000+ posts. I think know you need switch off the computer an get a life. BTW, it's not the volumeof posts that's important, it's the quality. No Thai would ever say such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattayasnowman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The so called engine failure comes from China Daily News and is based on one passenger According to the newspaper, "a passenger on the plane said the forced landing is because one of the engines was broken." A single engine flame out would not cause the plane to "plunge" from the sky In fact a two engine flame out would not as was the case with US Airways Flight 1549, which was gilded to a water landing in the Hudson. If indeed an Engine broke up , it could have caused damage to the wings leading edge or surface causing loss of control and a rapid descent. In which case the pilots diid an excellant job to recover and make an emergency landing. More likely there was no damaged engine but a loss of cabin pressure which required an emergency descent. Again credit to the pilots for making a safe emergency landing. What actually happened has probably been distorted and sensationalized 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 There was an old orient Thai 747 parked up at Hua Hin for ages , think it did a flight to BBK daily , I wouldn't have gone near the thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lust Posted March 31, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nosebleeds? Fainting? From descending too fast??Ever been in that situation? No, I thought not.... Maybe you can give us some insight on what has happened during your attempts to replicate this. Does the brain sort of lose focus on your knowledge of everything? Right, what would I know about flying... Silly me.. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thian Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Maybe thats why certain airlines were banned from Japan on tourist flights?? Yes probably but i would expect the Thai to see the Japanese as quality tourists. Then why would they transport quality tourists in the most crappy planes of the world? Good to see that the Japanese made an end to this, at least we can trust them for taking our safety serious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post realenglish1 Posted March 31, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2015 I dont get it Stewardess are supposed to be trained to handle emergencies not sit there and cry with the passengers. That just creates more panic and mayhem. It is clearly obvious these people have not been properly trained in Emergency situations They are just trained on how to hand out food and drink The heck with safety precautions How in gods name if there was a true life threatening situation would the passengers have dealt with the situation. What if the plane had to ditch in the ocean . I can see it now Mass cabin panic and the stewardesses crying in their seats I am appalled by their behavior yet most did not even comment about their performance. This is what a cabin crew is there for not to cry because their is an emergency 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nosebleeds? Fainting? From descending too fast??Ever been in that situation? No, I thought not.... Maybe you can give us some insight on what has happened during your attempts to replicate this. Does the brain sort of lose focus on your knowledge of everything? Right, what would I know about flying... Silly me.. Is that a nosebleed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta330 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I had all of one flight on OX. Not my idea at all, but my wife "surprised" me before I could book our ticktets. Flew CEI-DMK in a older MD-80. When I checked the registration later, I discovered the plane was delivered new to New York Air. 29" seat pitch at best. It wasn't the worst flight I ever had, but knowing the history of OX, I am not about to step on another one of their aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymat Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm a pilot that often flies a twin-engine aircraft and I can assure you that when an engine fails, the aircraft doesn't just "plunge out of the sky". If the pilot responds to it quickly, chances are passengers won't even notice (depending on the aircraft type). Planes can fly fine on one engine, especially if they are already straight and level at altitude. Perhaps there was also depressurisation issues, hence the rapid descent and oxygen masks. It wouldn't just nose dive due to a single engine failure. You're the expert - I mean that and offer this thought as a 'layman'. I read somewhere, that until a certain year, all planes crossing the Atlantic had to have at least 3 engines. This was eventually changed due to engine efficiency (?) and the fact an aircraft could fly on 1 engine for a considerable time. My facts may be a bit hazy but it fits in with what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLew Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 and now we know why Japan, China and South Korea and blocking Thailands airlines seems they are doing so with good reason This will not help get the restriction lifted Wonder who told the press to keep hush hush on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawatchee Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Time to make that call to the 'Foreign Experts'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLing Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) That would be terrifying. Glad they were able to put it down safely. Refreshing to see a pilot working hard to save passengers, crew and aircraft...rather than locking the door and nose diving it into a mountain or ocean. What an incredibly crass and insensitive comment - even by TV standards! You say 'refreshing to see a pilot working hard to save passengers' as if that is unusual, and now suddenly the norm is for pilots to take passengers to their deaths. You sir are a prize prat. you sure infer alot, don't you? Most things that are nice, do not make the news. This year...we had a few missing aircraft. Sometimes the news gets all wrapped around pilot error..and fails to recognize the the good pilots. My statement rightfully congratulates the pilot that was able to land the airplane safely, and being relieved that it was not another report of pilot error. I stand by my statement, although you are reading way too far into it.... Obviously I was referring to the media coverage during the past year...not making a derogatory statement towards all pilot. Lets just say "Refreshing to read a good story with a happy ending"....that should make you less jittery. Perhaps you had a bad day? A few missing aircrafts this year? I'm only aware of the missing Malaysian Airplane but that was last year. So maybe enlighten me what other aircrafts have gone missing? Considering the safety, maintenance and training records of Orient Thai, and how Orient Thai's management handles safety issues, I would suggest, it was by pure luck, this incident didn't end up with fatalities Snippets of a letter of an ex-pilot of Orient Thai: "To the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department, the Korean Civil Aeronautical Board & Thailand Department of Civil Aviation Addressed to the Examiners of Airmen I write to you on the principle that someone, somewhere has to stop the irregularities and illegalities that the airline mentioned below works under and how dangerous they are to aviation. Orient Thai Airlines is a company which has no control, no maintenance principles and the lowest standards I have ever seen. The first shock came in the simulator where crews were putting flaps out at 290 kts (not one of the crew members picked it up) so it was pointed out to them and at that time the Captain pulled the speedbrake handle, everyone again forgot that, they made the approach with flaps out speed brake deployed, proceeded to go-around and crashed. No checklists such as “Engine Fire Checklist” was ever called for. The Captain just says “get the book out”. This story goes on and on and when arriving back in the classroom, the Captain who was doing his renewal said “It is so nice to renew your rating” and the Check captain gave them all a pass. The Check captain was called into the office by Graham Smith and Xan Sutherland and told this was unacceptable..............." Well there are many, many more of such findings and what have the Thai Governments (past and present) done? Nada, denial, and defamation lawsuits but nothing to improve safety. I would say after 10 years of not complying to international regulations, all Thai carriers should be banned from international airspace. Edited March 31, 2015 by JoeLing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawatchee Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Some of the flight attendants began crying....graduates from the Hello Kitty flight training academy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JOC Posted March 31, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2015 Some of the flight attendants began crying....graduates from the Hello Kitty flight training academy? So easy to be the tough guy sitting in safety in front of your keyboard................... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Right, what would I know about flying... Silly me.. Which aircraft? The C17 or the second pose shot in what looks like a Hercky Jerky? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaosai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 From the Boeing 777 Flight Crew Training Manual. An aircraft may be stalled in any attitude or any airspeed. Regarding the Orient Thai incident. A definitive answer will be apparent once the investigation is complete and made public. From the pictures it's apparent that the oxygen masks have deployed. They may have deployed due to a cabin altitude exceedance or the pilots may have selected them to deploy manually. It's not uncommon to legally depart with certain aircraft components unserviceable. On occasion that may well be a part of the pressurisation system. If inflight you then suffer a failure of the other part of the system then the aircraft may start to depressurise. That failure might be a valve, bleed air switch or the engine which will affect all of the components. It's common to see it in the simulator, not so common on the aircraft. The aircraft departed Thailand, headed for its destination in China but had to divert en route due to a technical malfunction of some sorts. Landed safely which is great news. The investigation will then decide if all aspect of the flight were correct and legal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaosai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nosebleeds? Fainting? From descending too fast??Ever been in that situation? No, I thought not.... Maybe you can give us some insight on what has happened during your attempts to replicate this. Does the brain sort of lose focus on your knowledge of everything?Right, what would I know about flying... Silly me.. Nice pics. Is it a C130 your sitting in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songlaw Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I always assumed forward momentum and glide ratio would prevent a plane from falling from the sky? A plane yes. A jet, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 From the Boeing 777 Flight Crew Training Manual. An aircraft may be stalled in any attitude or any airspeed. Regarding the Orient Thai incident. A definitive answer will be apparent once the investigation is complete and made public. From the pictures it's apparent that the oxygen masks have deployed. They may have deployed due to a cabin altitude exceedance or the pilots may have selected them to deploy manually. It's not uncommon to legally depart with certain aircraft components unserviceable. On occasion that may well be a part of the pressurisation system. If inflight you then suffer a failure of the other part of the system then the aircraft may start to depressurise. That failure might be a valve, bleed air switch or the engine which will affect all of the components. It's common to see it in the simulator, not so common on the aircraft. The aircraft departed Thailand, headed for its destination in China but had to divert en route due to a technical malfunction of some sorts. Landed safely which is great news. The investigation will then decide if all aspect of the flight were correct and legal. You're right, no need to speculate because a more definitive account of what happened is already available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigPig Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Here's an interesting read www.investigateudom.com Interesting reading, I had a close friend on that plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Apparantly Japan, S. Korea, Singapore and Chine made the right decision. But perhaps they also need to go the next step and just ban all these 'airlines' until such time as the carrier and their entire fleet (including personnal) are properly audited and certified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wow64 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Never flying a with a Thai airline again. You know the saying "where there's smoke there is a plane about to fall out of the sky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commerce Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nosebleeds? Fainting? From descending too fast??Ever been in that situation? No, I thought not.... Maybe you can give us some insight on what has happened during your attempts to replicate this. Does the brain sort of lose focus on your knowledge of everything? Right, what would I know about flying... Silly me.. Is that a nosebleed? Just a gnome, with his head between his knees a goblin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonypace02 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nosebleeds? Fainting? From descending too fast?? From descending too fast from the ceiling of the cabin. There is a lot to be said about wearing your seat belt when in your sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I always assumed forward momentum and glide ratio would prevent a plane from falling from the sky?Any aircraft can stall at any speed. When it stalls, sometimes the pilot can reestablish laminar flow over the wings and sometimes they cannot. In any case it takes time to recover from a stall and during that time, it falls like a lead balloon. An aircraft can't stall at any speed. It was reported that an engine failed, not that it stalled. In any event, altitude is the only requirement to escape a stall, and modern jet transports don't stall. They are programmed to override pilot control inputs to avoid stalling. Just wondering....about that air asia indonesia flight....was that not a stall? No it was not a stall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) An aircraft can't stall at any speed. A bit surprised to hear you say that as it flies in the face of my flight training and hundreds of other instructors and including the FAA. Again, it is the critical angle of attack that is the determining factor and loss of laminar flow across the wings. You could be in a nose down rapid descent doing 150mph and pull suddenly back on the control and exceed the critical angle of attack creating a stall but still have high airspeed. A stall occurs when you have to much angel of attack and to little power on the engine, when close to stall a summer start in the cokpit and the controlls feel´s flappy, the only thing to do is to put the aircraft in a dive and it will level out by it self when the speed is enough. Edited March 31, 2015 by Skywalker69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacovl46 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I always assumed forward momentum and glide ratio would prevent a plane from falling from the sky? Airholes can cause a plane to drop like a stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizardofRnR Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) When ur up that HIGH meaning in the AIR not just Buzzing Around ! Even a Plane hitting a Air Pocket and dropping , like when Elevators stop abruptly as they slow down, Is usually enuff to send more then a FEW Passengers up-chucking or screamin' ! Also , a news article picture of the Plane is what most planes Chinese Tourists Flights look-like , after they fly anyways , so how are we suppose to tell the difference ? Edited March 31, 2015 by TheWizardofRnR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisemonkey Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 wow... maybe Japan, Korea and soon the rest of the world are right... China has banned flights from Thailand too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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