Borrowed Words in the Thai language

[KhunBENQ]

I have to correct myself. What to me (not an English native speaker) sounded like an American dark l, is really more [w]

And that's the pronunciation Paiboon gives [iu]

The speaker is quite uneducated btw.

You mean he prounced " fossiu " ? If so, it reminds me when a girl told me about " Biu Gates " ( or Bew Gates ); after some times , I guessed she was speaking of " Bill Gates "

true, the sound L doesn't exist at the end of a syllabe, and when they are not used to the English sound, it's difficult for them, and they say " iu " if English name , or " n " like in their language

Let them say "dutch mill" (the well know milk brand) ("dat miu" or the like).

For years I did not care about the nicknames of the granddaughters.

One of them is called "miu", just last year learned what it refers too

Edited June 15, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[TechnoCrasy]

I have to correct myself. What to me (not an English native speaker) sounded like an American dark l, is really more [w]

And that's the pronunciation Paiboon gives [iu]

The speaker is quite uneducated btw.

You mean he prounced " fossiu " ? If so, it reminds me when a girl told me about " Biu Gates " ( or Bew Gates ); after some times , I guessed she was speaking of " Bill Gates "

true, the sound L doesn't exist at the end of a syllabe, and when they are not used to the English sound, it's difficult for them, and they say " iu " if English name , or " n " like in their language

Is there no thai language sound for the english sound "i" in Bill, or the sound "L"?.

In Spanish "y" is sometimes pronounced "EE" and "LL" is pronounced "Y' (with varying pronunciations depending on the region/country where spoken)

[Aforek]

Is there no thai language sound for the english sound "i" in Bill, or the sound "L"?.

In Spanish "y" is sometimes pronounced "EE" and "LL" is pronounced "Y' (with varying pronunciations depending on the region/country where spoken)

The problem for them is not the I ( they have two I , one short and one long ) or the L ( they have several ), the problem is L at the end of a syllabe ; they can pronounce L at the beginning, but when it's at the end , it's written L but pronounced N

As said above, Thai people who know well English, and after some training, can pronounce L at the end of a syllabe

Ps : I remember too " Dutch milk ", it's only when my GF , angrily , showed me the pack in Big C , that I knew what " dat miu " meant

[jumbo]

durian

[TechnoCrasy]

Is there no thai language sound for the english sound "i" in Bill, or the sound "L"?.

In Spanish "y" is sometimes pronounced "EE" and "LL" is pronounced "Y' (with varying pronunciations depending on the region/country where spoken)

The problem for them is not the I ( they have two I , one short and one long ) or the L ( they have several ), the problem is L at the end of a syllabe ; they can pronounce L at the beginning, but when it's at the end , it's written L but pronounced N

As said above, Thai people who know well English, and after some training, can pronounce L at the end of a syllabe

Ps : I remember too " Dutch milk ", it's only when my GF , angrily , showed me the pack in Big C , that I knew what " dat miu " meant

See what you are saying. Native spanish speakers find some L's in English difficult to pronounce. Depending where the "L" is in the word. Pronouncing "little" the first "L" they can pronounce, the second one is more difficult.

Just to pick-up on the "dutch milk". If L written at the end of a sentence is pronounced "N" and "i" is pronounced "e" (as in the the Bill Gates example). Wouldn't Milk be pronounced "menk" by a native thai speaker.

[Aforek]

Difficult for me to anwer, it's Thai people choice: why do they say " bew " for Bill Gates " and why do they say " bin " in the thai way for bill ( restaurant, electricity ) ?

But I must say that I love how they arrange themselves when they have to pronounce English names ( for instance, Google ( " koo ken ", ), album (ala bam ) etc

[BudRight]

Came across loanwords?

Must be in the hundreds if you look at topics like IT/computer, mechanical engineering, automotive, electrical installation etc.pp.

About every "modern" field (invented in the last 50 to 100 years) is full of English loanwords.

Some loanwords might be shortcut/not easy to associate, like แบต (bat) for battery (แบตเตอรี่).

Also the pronounciation can be very different. Example สวิต (switch) which sound like "saweet" or so.

แอร์ (air, for aircondition) sounds like "aeh".

But "railway link" is just a fixed term, like a brand name.

There are generic Thai words for railway and link.

A field for the experts: tons of loanwords from the old Indian languages (in Bhuddism, Royals/Nobles) and Chinese.

Some of them adapted, so sounding very different from their roots.

One that everyone should know?:

มอเตอร์ไซค์ (motoesai) from "motorcycle".

Typical example for the "morphing" of pronounciation to adapt to Thai rules (limitations).

The WiKi article is nice, but very far from complete:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_loanwords_in_Thai

(but it shows some prominent examples like bus, TV(television), taxi...)

Much more comprehensive list, somewhat arbitrary though:

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/loanwords

An example that surprised some time ago:

cantaloupe แคนตาลูป

a type of melon, everyone in the Isan family was familiar with this.

Switch is เปิดปิด

Aircon is (I believe) เครื่องปรับอากาศ but no-one ever says that.

I think that Thais anglicize the language more when speaking to us; it actually makes it much more difficult to understand. For years I thought Thai for 'soldier' was something like 'อัมมี'

Aforek, my TGF had the same problem with 'Hale's Blue Boy.' It came out something like 'Hew ba-boy.'

Edited June 15, 2015 by BudRight

[KhunBENQ]

Aircon is (I believe) เครื่องปรับอากาศ but no-one ever says that.

Yep, streets are full with "air" signs (refill for car) in Thai (แอร์). Spoken without the "r" of course

What I find so silly: they invent brand names that can are absolutely strange for Thais like this "est" coke

Edited June 16, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[phuketsub]

Hear "Mai serious" quite alot.

The word 'serious' [seeleeUT] is one of many that has been borrowed and morphed in Thai to a generally unrecognizable state [meaning and pronunciation] by the native English speaker.

Among Thais, it indicates that someone is "under stress" .

It is never used in a positive way among Thais.

I learned this the hard way when I had a student come to me with tears in her eyes asking why I had written "Ae is a serious student who...." on her progress report ...So I had to explain that it can also mean ขยัน (diligent).

I also heard a doctor use it once when he was performing a difficult eye surgery on me: thank god they had me fully drugged up.

Anyway, this is a great thread with no end of possibilities to discuss...

[Richard W]

true, the sound L doesn't exist at the end of a syllabe, and when they are not used to the English sound, it's difficult for them, and they say " iu " if English name , or " n " like in their language

So rather like Londoners!

[Richard W]

durian

Also [H]thu[M]rian!

Edited June 16, 2015 by Richard W

[AyG]

durian

Also [H]thu[M]rian!

From the Malay durian, from duri meaning thorn or prickle.

[TechnoCrasy]

Indonesian Saying:

The durian falls and the sarong comes up.

Edited June 17, 2015 by TechnoCrasy

[RickBradford]

And a new one from the Princess Chulabhorn on TV last night, who began her speech:

คนไทยทั่วประเทศ appreciate งาน ....

But apparently this word was aimed at a fairly select audience, and 99% of Thais wouldn't know it. That's a general rule when it comes to adopted English words, I think. Thai neologisms such as 'ree-noh-wayt', 'up-gred' or 'up-det' are all limited to a select audience.

[KhunBENQ]

Yesterday seen at a motorcycle side car: เครป for crepes.

Often heard at home: เค็ก for cake.

แพนเค้ก for pancake

[bearpolar]

Keep them coming, its fun!

[RickBradford]

Oh, well, if you're going to have แพนเค้ก, you have to let me add โดนัต.

Not only are they foods, but also the nicknames of two of the best well-known actresses in the Thai soap opera world......

[KhunBENQ]

Oh, well, if you're going to have แพนเค้ก, you have to let me add โดนัต.

Not only are they foods, but also the nicknames of two of the best well-known actresses in the Thai soap opera world......

Donut doesn't seem to eat too much donuts

http://entertain.teenee.com/thaistar/84246.html

[raggedclaws]

Sometimes the sounds of borrowed words become altered so much as to become incomprehensible to us non-native Thai speakers, and hard to say to boot.

On the subject of food, here’s a word I have difficulty with. I love a serving of Mayonnaise with my fries at KFC or McDonalds. This simple request is invariably met by perplexed looks. The Thai pronunciation is so different from the English - Ma– yong – nait - with the last syllable high, and ending in a kind of ‘t’ even though it’s spelt with Sor Seur in Thai (มายองเนส). Frustrating!

[nikmar]

Yestetday in the office where i work we did a major tidy up complete with notices on the wall exclaiming "big cleaning" day.

On some notices and magazine articles the titles are in english. Ive always wondered why.

[AyG]

Sometimes the sounds of borrowed words become altered so much as to become incomprehensible to us non-native Thai speakers, and hard to say to boot.

On the subject of food, here’s a word I have difficulty with. I love a serving of Mayonnaise with my fries at KFC or McDonalds. This simple request is invariably met by perplexed looks. The Thai pronunciation is so different from the English - Ma– yong – nait - with the last syllable high, and ending in a kind of ‘t’ even though it’s spelt with Sor Seur in Thai (มายองเนส). Frustrating!

I think you meant มาย็องเนส. And of course the ending is a /t/. There's no /s/ finals in Thai. And the tone of the final syllable is falling, not high.

Really, there's no point criticising Thai pronunciation. It's just the same in English with borrowed words. Most English people don't pronounce Paris or penguin or bruschetta correctly.

[KhunBENQ]

On some notices and magazine articles the titles are in english. Ive always wondered why.

Gives the magazine and the reader a "cosmopolitan" appeal

[Richard W]

I think you meant มาย็องเนส. And of course the ending is a /t/. There's no /s/ finals in Thai. And the tone of the final syllable is falling, not high.

• The commoner spelling, and the one in the Thai wikipedia, has no maitaikhu.
• There are /s/ finals, though /t/ is always an alternative. ก๊าซ is particular likely to be pronounced with final /s/.
• The tone seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure that the final syllable is always [F]nees in
  .

[phuketsub]

One word I always thought was a loan word from English is เสวนา, which I always thought was a Thai version of the English word 'seminar'.

Now I am starting to have serious doubts as most dictionaries translate seminar as 'สัมมนา', which would be a much better transliteration.

They also list เสวนา as a verb, meaning 'to gather or associate' .

However, one site says เสวนา can also be a noun and lists สัมมนา as a 'related word'.

But thai2english.com says เสวนา has Pali/Sanskrit roots, and with that spelling it sounds about right.

Maybe the two words just share an older root or maybe it's just a coincidence. I wonder.

[AyG]

One word I always thought was a loan word from English is เสวนา, which I always thought was a Thai version of the English word 'seminar'.

Now I am starting to have serious doubts as most dictionaries translate seminar as 'สัมมนา', which would be a much better transliteration.

They also list เสวนา as a verb, meaning 'to gather or associate' .

However, one site says เสวนา can also be a noun and lists สัมมนา as a 'related word'.

So I am still far from the bottom on this one....any insights appreciated.

According to the RID it's from Pali (and they don't include etymology for entries unless they're 100% certain).

[meltingpot2015]

Sometimes the sounds of borrowed words become altered so much as to become incomprehensible to us non-native Thai speakers, and hard to say to boot.

On the subject of food, here’s a word I have difficulty with. I love a serving of Mayonnaise with my fries at KFC or McDonalds. This simple request is invariably met by perplexed looks. The Thai pronunciation is so different from the English - Ma– yong – nait - with the last syllable high, and ending in a kind of ‘t’ even though it’s spelt with Sor Seur in Thai (มายองเนส). Frustrating!

I think you meant มาย็องเนส. And of course the ending is a /t/. There's no /s/ finals in Thai. And the tone of the final syllable is falling, not high.

Really, there's no point criticising Thai pronunciation. It's just the same in English with borrowed words. Most English people don't pronounce Paris or penguin or bruschetta correctly.

The english translation of มาย็องเนส using googletranslate is: Thonon Gaillard's Nest. See for yourself here.

[meltingpot2015]

มายองเนส gives the correct translation. (if you click on the audio clip the thai speaker pronouces the 's' in Mā yxng nes̄)

[AyG]

มายองเนส gives the correct translation. (if you click on the audio clip the thai speaker pronouces the 's' in Mā yxng nes̄)

Uh, that's not a Thai speaker, that's a computer generated pronunciation. It sounds nothing like a native Thai speaker. Notice the complete lack of tones?

And anyone who thinks Google Translate is a reliable source for Thai is clearly completely clueless.

[meltingpot2015]

มายองเนส gives the correct translation. (if you click on the audio clip the thai speaker pronouces the 's' in Mā yxng nes̄)

Uh, that's not a Thai speaker, that's a computer generated pronunciation. It sounds nothing like a native Thai speaker. Notice the complete lack of tones?

And anyone who thinks Google Translate is a reliable source for Thai is clearly completely clueless.

In your opinion is the chef in the video of post #53 a native thai speaker?

The reason I ask is because, before I posted post #56 and #57, I watched the beginning of that video and he pronounces the 's' in Mā yxng nes̄

quite clearly (@ timestamp 0:13 and 0:14). Then I checked google translate and the "computer generated" speech also pronounced the 's'. So I have to agree with Richard W on this one:

There are /s/ finals, though /t/ is always an alternative. ก๊าซ is particular likely to be pronounced with final /s/.

If you listen to timestamp 7:30 on the video the Chef pronounces the 's', listen to point 7:33 and its a 't'. So it looks like 's' and the 't' sound are used interchangeably.

Edited June 21, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Richard W]

มายองเนส gives the correct translation. (if you click on the audio clip the thai speaker pronouces the 's' in Mā yxng nes̄)

• The pronunciation given is based on "Māy xng nes̄" as you would put it.
• It looks as though you're using the faulty ICU implementation of ISO 11940. The correct ISO 11940 transliteration is "māyxngens̄".
• The pronunciation does have tone in it, but there's no good reason to trust it for awkward words.

I am puzzled by how it was generated. Someone's gone to the trouble of having /s/ at the end, but not checked the syllabification.