Is Your Pool Green?

[ThaiPauly]

Mine has gone green over the past week.

My Pool Guy says that a lot of pools in CM that he looks after have gone the same way right now.

He has shown me that the chlorine levels are right.

So if your's has turned colour what do you do about it?

He is suggesting putting "shock"in,is that the right treatment?

Cheers TP

[fdimike]

I would have him check all the water chemistry before doing anything more.

He needs to get the water balanced first. Total Alkalinity, ph, FREE CHLORINE all need to be in balance. Total alkalinity first, then ph and free chlorine. I assume this is not a salt water pool.

[Anthony5]

My Pool Guy says that a lot of pools in CM that he looks after have gone the same way right now.

Doesn't that say enough? There is no thing like green pool season or so, it clearly shows that your pool guy doesn't know anything about pool chemistry, similar to the majority of pool guys.

Without seeing your pool I can give a a possible diagnosis.

Pool guys use the 90% TCCA chlorine, which contains cyanuric acid (CYA), and which builds up to dangerous levels, because cyanuric acid doesn't degrade or evaporate.

They also never test for CYA, because you can't do that with a 2 tube test kit.

Take a look here and you will know that the chlorine in your pool is simply ineffective.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/2177-Chlorine-CYA-Chart

This chart goes to a level of 120ppm of CYA, but your pool may have a considerable higher level, so it may need a free chlorine level of 15ppm or higher, Free chlorine also can't be tested with a 2 tube testkit.

Now to shock a pool with high CYA levels is even a more complicated issue, especially if he doesn't know what he's doing, which is obvious.

It would need to decrease and measure the CYA level first, and next be able to measure the level of combined chlorine, to be able to know how much chlorine you need to shock.

My advice, fire the pool boy as fast as you can and read up on the dedicated pool forums. Maintenance of a pool is a big job, if you know what you're doing.

If you want to read more about the other dangers of high CYA levels take a look

http://en.wikipedia....i/Cyanuric_acid

Safety

Cyanuric acid is classified as "essentially nontoxic".^[1] The 50% oral median lethal dose (LD₅₀) is 7700 mg/kg in rats.^[11]

However, when cyanuric acid is present together with melamine (which by itself is another low-toxicity substance), they may form extremely insoluble crystals,^[12] leading to formation of kidney stones and potentially causing kidney failure and death—as evidenced in dogs and cats during the 2007 pet food contamination and in children during the 2008 Chinese milk scandal cases

and

http://www.portal.st...products/556676

What are dichlor and trichlor? – Dichlor and trichlor are two solid chlorine compounds that are widely used as disinfectants in swimming pools. Both are often marketed as “stabilized” chlorine. Dichlor usually comes in a granular form and is marketed for the residential swimming pool market. It is not often used in commercial pools because it is unsuitable for commercial disinfectant feeders. Trichlor is often sold in a tablet or stick form for use in an erosion feeder for small commercial pools, such as those at hotels and motels. Both dichlor and trichlor release cyanuric acid into the pool water, so it is not necessary to add cyanuric acid to a pool that uses either of these compounds as the primary disinfectant.

How much is too much cyanuric acid? – While Pennsylvania has no upper limit in the Public Swimming and Bathing Code, other states have set maximum levels in the range of 80 to 100 ppm. The Pennsylvania Department of Health recommends that cyanuric acid levels should never exceed 80 ppm.

Summary of Pennsylvania Department of Health Recommendations

1. Cyanuric acid and stabilized chlorine (diclor or trichlor) should be used in outdoor swimming pools only. It should never be used in indoor swimming pools or spas and hot tubs.
2. Both dichlor and trichlor release cyanuric acid to the pool water and it is never necessary to put additional cyanuric acid into a pool that uses dichlor or trichlor.
3. Pools that use cyanuric acid should maintain a free chlorine residual of 2 parts per million (ppm)
4. Cyanuric acid levels should be tested at least once a week and before any additional cyanuric acid is added..
5. Cyanuric acid levels should never exceed 80 ppm.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Anthony5

[Pinot]

Looks like Anthony knows what he's talking about.

This results from pool maintenance people not knowing what they're doing and why would they? I've been through this with two of the pools I was swimming at this year. In fact in both cases it was me whining that they should fire the pool company and get it fixed that resulted in them finally doing something about it. Hiring and firing a pool company isn't easy because if it's Thai management, they have to hire the cheapest company they can get and they probably don't know what they're doing either.

This usually clears up in a week. That's the time it takes to fire your pool guy and hire another one. Shocking the pool and staying on top of it (so to speak) till it's back to where it should be.

[Rhys]

Some university pools are this way ... swim at your own risk..

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

If a 'professional' pool care agent has allowed all the pools under his purview to turn green there is something wrong with his/her system rather than the water itself.

While most people are aware that chlorine has something to do with swimming pools - particularly older people who remember the strong odour of it at their old-fashioned municipal pool before modern dosing systems were introduced, very few are actually aware of so many other important factors affecting the performance of the chlorine. pH is the most important but total alkalinity and calcium hardness also need to be kept at the right levels.

Most chlorine tablets, powder, or granules used in domestic pools are T.C.C.A which already contains cyanuric acid (CYA). CYA is used in tiny quantities and it would take a very long time for it to build up to such a quantity that it would block the chlorine action or become toxic. Furthermore, one will get all the dilution needed (and more) here in Thailand during the rainy season - the regular 5:00 PM storms during the season will completely change the pool water of an average sized domestic pool in about 10 - 14 days.

Get the official information about CYA, how to use it , and download the fact sheet from the Cyanuric Acid product pages here.

Chlorine will prevent the growth of algae to some extent but it will not turn the water crystal clear again. For that, a flocculant is needed.

Consider preventative maintenance against algae by regularly dosing with algicide such as these products. Many are a combined algicide/clarifier which kills the algae and renders the water clear again.

Edited April 6, 2015 by SwimmingPoolsThailand

[Anthony5]

If a 'professional' pool care agent has allowed all the pools under his purview to turn green there is something wrong with his/her system rather than the water itself.

While most people are aware that chlorine has something to do with swimming pools - particularly older people who remember the strong odour of it at their old-fashioned municipal pool before modern dosing systems were introduced, very few are actually aware of so many other important factors affecting the performance of the chlorine. pH is the most important but total alkalinity and calcium hardness also need to be kept at the right levels.

Most chlorine tablets, powder, or granules used in domestic pools are T.C.C.A which already contains cyanuric acid (CYA). CYA is used in tiny quantities and it would take a very long time for it to build up to such a quantity that it would block the chlorine action or become toxic. Furthermore, one will get all the dilution needed (and more) here in Thailand during the rainy season - the regular 5:00 PM storms during the season will completely change the pool water of an average sized domestic pool in about 10 - 14 days.

Get the official information about CYA, how to use it , and download the fact sheet from the Cyanuric Acid product pages here.

Chlorine will prevent the growth of algae to some extent but it will not turn the water crystal clear again. For that, a flocculant is needed.

Consider preventative maintenance against algae by regularly dosing with algicide such as these products. Many are a combined algicide/clarifier which kills the algae and renders the water clear again.

I assume that 60m³ is an average pool size. Taken into consideration that a pool in tropical Thailand on a sunny day will consume about 2ppm of free chlorine per day, it would need about 130 gram of TCCA daily to keep the chlorine level stable.

130 gram of TCCA in a 60.000 liter pool will raise CYA by 1.2ppm, so it will take 83 days only to reach a CYA level of 100ppm in a pool.

Is there something wrong with my calculation using the pool calculator?

http://poolcalculator.com/?utm_source=www.poolcalculator.com&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=redirect/

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

I assume that 60m³ is an average pool size. Taken into consideration that a pool in tropical Thailand on a sunny day will consume about 2ppm of free chlorine per day, it would need about 130 gram of TCCA daily to keep the chlorine level stable.

130 gram of TCCA in a 60.000 liter pool will raise CYA by 1.2ppm, so it will take 83 days only to reach a CYA level of 100ppm in a pool.

Is there something wrong with my calculation using the pool calculator?

http://poolcalculator.com/?utm_source=www.poolcalculator.com&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=redirect/

4 x 10 is roughly the average domestic pool size here in Thailand. Your calculations may be right if you never backwash, never lose any water through evaporation, and always cover your pool during the rainy season.

Edited April 6, 2015 by SwimmingPoolsThailand

[Anthony5]

I assume that 60m³ is an average pool size. Taken into consideration that a pool in tropical Thailand on a sunny day will consume about 2ppm of free chlorine per day, it would need about 130 gram of TCCA daily to keep the chlorine level stable.

130 gram of TCCA in a 60.000 liter pool will raise CYA by 1.2ppm, so it will take 83 days only to reach a CYA level of 100ppm in a pool.

Is there something wrong with my calculation using the pool calculator?

http://poolcalculator.com/?utm_source=www.poolcalculator.com&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=redirect/

4 x 10 is roughly the average domestic pool size here in Thailand. Your calculations may be right if you never backwash, never lose any water through evaporation, and always cover your pool during the rainy season.

CYA doesn't evaporate is it, and there are 4 cycles of 83 days in a year, so even with backwashing, rainstorms and all I estimate that a pool maintained by TCCA only will easily reach 200ppm CYA levels in a year time.

I've tested the pool of my ex, which had moved in the new house not more than 6 months, and maintained by a pool boy which had a CYA of over 150ppm. It also had a chlorine level which wasn't measurable because the scale on the test strips only goes to 10ppm.

Merely because the pool boy, as in most cases, didn't measure the chlorine he added but just added a cup every 3 days, in a pool from 3 x 7 meter.

By the way I had to raise the pH level before being able to test for CYA, because the pH was so low that it didn't even indicated on the test strips.

[maanoi]

Anthony is spot on.

As a side note the "professional pool guys" here are a joke. In my experience all they will do is vacuum and dump a bunch of chlorine in your pool.

Buy a real test kit online (I've never seen a decent test kit for sale in Thailand) and get your CYA levels down.

Stop using grandula chlorine and switch to liquid.

[ThaiPauly]

Thanks for the very comprehensive posts guys.

I got my wife to call and get the boss round to show him after he had been and seen for himself he told her he would rectify the problem, she also told him that we don't want his pool guy to come any more, if he wants our business he will have to do it himself.

I could not explain to him the stuff that you guys had posted as I don't speak Thai and he does not speak English and my wife is not here today to translate

Never had any problems like this before,he was doing the job himself before he decided to expand, looks like that has backfired on him a bit now.

Thanks again for your imput,I know a lot more about swimming pools now than I have known in the 10 years I have had it!!

[northernphil]

The pool table down my pub is green . Sorry but just getting too hot up here in the north, melt down is underway.

[Anthony5]

Thanks for the very comprehensive posts guys.

I got my wife to call and get the boss round to show him after he had been and seen for himself he told her he would rectify the problem, she also told him that we don't want his pool guy to come any more, if he wants our business he will have to do it himself.

I could not explain to him the stuff that you guys had posted as I don't speak Thai and he does not speak English and my wife is not here today to translate

Never had any problems like this before,he was doing the job himself before he decided to expand, looks like that has backfired on him a bit now.

Thanks again for your imput,I know a lot more about swimming pools now than I have known in the 10 years I have had it!!

Why don't you take over yourself Pauly, once you have your water balanced it takes 30 minutes maximum every 2-3 days. It saves you money and you can be assured that you always swim in a healthy pool

[ThaiPauly]

Thanks for the very comprehensive posts guys.

I got my wife to call and get the boss round to show him after he had been and seen for himself he told her he would rectify the problem, she also told him that we don't want his pool guy to come any more, if he wants our business he will have to do it himself.

I could not explain to him the stuff that you guys had posted as I don't speak Thai and he does not speak English and my wife is not here today to translate

Never had any problems like this before,he was doing the job himself before he decided to expand, looks like that has backfired on him a bit now.

Thanks again for your imput,I know a lot more about swimming pools now than I have known in the 10 years I have had it!!

Why don't you take over yourself Pauly, once you have your water balanced it takes 30 minutes maximum every 2-3 days. It saves you money and you can be assured that you always swim in a healthy pool

It is worth considering,but I am away from home often,but I think the 2,000 baht a month I pay a month for him to come 3 times a week is very reasonable, the pool company who built it ask a great deal more.

I will let you know how things turn out

[RayBan]

Hi there ThaiPauly,

Don't often get involved in such conversations, however i have owned and maintained my own personal swimming pools for the past 20 years or so in my various houses. There have been a lot of words (no disrespect) written in regards to your green pool, some of it quite deep and probably baffling to you.

Let me put it in simple terms for you to understand - Basically a green pool means that you have algae contamination, it happens now and again in all pools that are not regularly maintained and it is not such a big deal.

My suggestion is to take a bucket of chlorine (2 or 3 kgs at least) and mix it gradually into your pool while circulating ( this is what is known as "Shocking" as per your pool guy). Keep the pump circulation on for 24 hrs and ensure that your sand filter is working correctly. At the end of this period give a good backwash and circulate the pool at least 8 hrs a day for the next few days.

Once the pool clears, slowly adjust the ph again by adding small amounts of caustic soda and/or hydrauchloric acid as required.

All will come good if you follow these basics.

I hope this helps guide you.

[ggt]

Shocking your pool will likely end your green problem...green pool water is usually a result of not enough chlorine in the water...

[jacko45k]

I assume that 60m³ is an average pool size. Taken into consideration that a pool in tropical Thailand on a sunny day will consume about 2ppm of free chlorine per day, it would need about 130 gram of TCCA daily to keep the chlorine level stable.

130 gram of TCCA in a 60.000 liter pool will raise CYA by 1.2ppm, so it will take 83 days only to reach a CYA level of 100ppm in a pool.

Is there something wrong with my calculation using the pool calculator?

http://poolcalculator.com/?utm_source=www.poolcalculator.com&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=redirect/

4 x 10 is roughly the average domestic pool size here in Thailand. Your calculations may be right if you never backwash, never lose any water through evaporation, and always cover your pool during the rainy season.

By the way I had to raise the pH level before being able to test for CYA, because the pH was so low that it didn't even indicated on the test strips.

Why would you use test strips that only register alkaline?

[ronaldo0]

high iron levels in the water can also cause the pool to turn or become cloudy. Liquid chlorine fixed mine.

[Anthony5]

I assume that 60m³ is an average pool size. Taken into consideration that a pool in tropical Thailand on a sunny day will consume about 2ppm of free chlorine per day, it would need about 130 gram of TCCA daily to keep the chlorine level stable.

130 gram of TCCA in a 60.000 liter pool will raise CYA by 1.2ppm, so it will take 83 days only to reach a CYA level of 100ppm in a pool.

Is there something wrong with my calculation using the pool calculator?

http://poolcalculator.com/?utm_source=www.poolcalculator.com&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=redirect/

4 x 10 is roughly the average domestic pool size here in Thailand. Your calculations may be right if you never backwash, never lose any water through evaporation, and always cover your pool during the rainy season.

By the way I had to raise the pH level before being able to test for CYA, because the pH was so low that it didn't even indicated on the test strips.

Why would you use test strips that only register alkaline?

Where did I mention the word alkaline in my post?

pH is the acidic level of your water, not the alkalinity however they are related since alkaline has the abilities to increase pH, and CYA or stabilizer is also an acid .

If your pH is lower than 7.0 the test strips don't read the CYA level correctly.

By the way the test strips i use test for hardness - total chlorine- free chlorine - alkalinity - pH and cyanuric acid

Edited April 7, 2015 by Anthony5

[ThaiPauly]

My pool is clear again now.

I have to give cudos to my pool guy, he came everyday,yesterday twice even to add something else.

Overnight all the algie sunk to the bottom and they have just finished clearing it all out.

Problem solved,though I don't think it is ready for swimming in yet, I will wait till he confirms that all the levels are right first, or maybe I'll make him take the first dip !

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread,it's been interesting

TP

[RonnyAnderson]

If pool water is green that mean there is so much algae in the bottom of the pool and you have not changed water of the pool from a long time. This is the main reason of the current situation and to get rid of the problem you can install cartridge pool filter in your pool that will help to remove all the impurities from the pool water.

[maanoi]

If pool water is green that mean there is so much algae in the bottom of the pool and you have not changed water of the pool from a long time. This is the main reason of the current situation and to get rid of the problem you can install cartridge pool filter in your pool that will help to remove all the impurities from the pool water.

Lol at this guy.

Yeh I can't believe noone suggested that OP should change the water or install a filter.

555555

[IMHO]

If pool water is green that mean there is so much algae in the bottom of the pool and you have not changed water of the pool from a long time. This is the main reason of the current situation and to get rid of the problem you can install cartridge pool filter in your pool that will help to remove all the impurities from the pool water.

Lol at this guy.

Yeh I can't believe noone suggested that OP should change the water or install a filter.

555555

He also suggested a cartridge filter could magically vacuum up the sand that gets onto the floor of my pool as well, LOL.

[Naam]

If pool water is green that mean there is so much algae in the bottom of the pool and you have not changed water of the pool from a long time. This is the main reason of the current situation and to get rid of the problem you can install cartridge pool filter in your pool that will help to remove all the impurities from the pool water.

Lol at this guy.

Yeh I can't believe noone suggested that OP should change the water or install a filter.

555555

He also suggested a cartridge filter could magically vacuum up the sand that gets onto the floor of my pool as well, LOL.

Thaivisa has many eggsburts

[KittenKong]

Our condo building has a very large pool and no one really knows what the company who maintains the pool does with it, though we seem to spend a lot on chemicals. It all looks fine from outside but some users complain that the water is cloudy (only visible when using goggles, apparently), or that it is chemically irritating, and there may also be issues with premature grouting failure.

Is there anywhere in/near Pattaya where I can buy these superior 4-way test strips so that the committee can do a properly controlled test of our own? For accounting reasons buying online is not practical.

Do these 4-way test strips actually test everything that is necessary or should other tests be done as well?

[billphillips]

It's not unusual at the start of the rainy season for pools to go green. A pool pro would know that. It's to do with the additional acid content accumulating in the pool water. Once the water is green, the normal level of chlorine will not clear it. The water has to be over-chlorinated for 2 or 3 days. Chlorine works more effectively in alkaline water rather than neutral ph water.

Here is what to do .... Close the pool, add 5 kilos of soda ash and circulate / filter the water for one hour, add double the normal weekly chlorine in one go and circulate / filter for 24 hours.

After 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal after another 24 hours it will be safe to use again but the chlorine and Ph levels will confirm this.

One side thought is .. that the chlorine that the pool pro is using is not 90% but a lower cost mixture or even a rip off supply, worth checking.

[Anthony5]

It's not unusual at the start of the rainy season for pools to go green. A pool pro would know that. It's to do with the additional acid content accumulating in the pool water. Once the water is green, the normal level of chlorine will not clear it. The water has to be over-chlorinated for 2 or 3 days. Chlorine works more effectively in alkaline water rather than neutral ph water.

Here is what to do .... Close the pool, add 5 kilos of soda ash and circulate / filter the water for one hour, add double the normal weekly chlorine in one go and circulate / filter for 24 hours.

After 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal after another 24 hours it will be safe to use again but the chlorine and Ph levels will confirm this.

One side thought is .. that the chlorine that the pool pro is using is not 90% but a lower cost mixture or even a rip off supply, worth checking.

Add 5kg of soda ash and after 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal

You really have any idea what you're talking about?

Edited April 16, 2015 by Anthony5

[billphillips]

It's not unusual at the start of the rainy season for pools to go green. A pool pro would know that. It's to do with the additional acid content accumulating in the pool water. Once the water is green, the normal level of chlorine will not clear it. The water has to be over-chlorinated for 2 or 3 days. Chlorine works more effectively in alkaline water rather than neutral ph water.

Here is what to do .... Close the pool, add 5 kilos of soda ash and circulate / filter the water for one hour, add double the normal weekly chlorine in one go and circulate / filter for 24 hours.

After 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal after another 24 hours it will be safe to use again but the chlorine and Ph levels will confirm this.

One side thought is .. that the chlorine that the pool pro is using is not 90% but a lower cost mixture or even a rip off supply, worth checking.

Add 5kg of soda ash and after 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal

You really have any idea what you're talking about?

Yes.

[Anthony5]

It's not unusual at the start of the rainy season for pools to go green. A pool pro would know that. It's to do with the additional acid content accumulating in the pool water. Once the water is green, the normal level of chlorine will not clear it. The water has to be over-chlorinated for 2 or 3 days. Chlorine works more effectively in alkaline water rather than neutral ph water.

Here is what to do .... Close the pool, add 5 kilos of soda ash and circulate / filter the water for one hour, add double the normal weekly chlorine in one go and circulate / filter for 24 hours.

After 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal after another 24 hours it will be safe to use again but the chlorine and Ph levels will confirm this.

One side thought is .. that the chlorine that the pool pro is using is not 90% but a lower cost mixture or even a rip off supply, worth checking.

Add 5kg of soda ash and after 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal

You really have any idea what you're talking about?

Yes.ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1429154797.585358.jpg

5kg of soda ash would raise the pH in an average sized pool with 2.5.and raise TA by 75.

This would mean that a previous neutral pH pool would rise to pH 9.5, which would make chlorine pretty ineffective, since chlorine has it's maximum effectiveness at pH 7.4. Everything lower or higher than this number will make the chlorine less effective, so a pH of 2.0 above the recommended level would render chlorine just useless, or in other words would promote algae growth.

http://www.swimmingpool.com/maintenance/chemical-problems-and-solutions/ph-and-pool-water

High pH in swimming pool water may cause the following problems:

• calcium buildup on pool surfaces, waterline and accessories

• dull or cloudy pool water

• clogging of filter medium or elements

• drop in disinfection potential of chlorine resulting in algae growth

Now another thing is, if you can get a pH of 9.5 back to normal in 48 hours without adding loads of HCI, you must be a magician. Moreover I would consider that a pool with such a high pH and extreme high TA as well, will give you big problems to get back to normal for the next 3 months.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Anthony5

[Chaichara]

Looks to me as if it is nothing more than a total lack of regular normal maintenance including maybe even a lack of backwashing/rinsing the filter system.

Test strips are not very accurate and they are expensive. A simple pH & Cl test kit for baht 200 (some pool shops selling them for a LOT more) would do all you need to understand the basic additions of chemicals such as chlorine and pH Minus until perhaps the pool reveals more detailed problems that need to be addressed, Very murky water also first needs to be clarified using a flocculant, and some of these products are marketed by pool shops at exhorbitant prices. Sometimes it's actually cheaper to drain the pool, give it a good clean and start over with a fresh fill and than keep it properly maintained.