Aviation Authorities Are Hoping for a Compromise from ICAO

[Jacob Maslow]

Aviation authorities are hoping for a compromise from ICAO. The transport authorities are looking to restore ICAO’s confidence within its June 2 deadline, but do not believe they will be able to satisfy every transport standards requirement.

Officials met on Wednesday and agreed to form a new unit comprised of five officials under the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA). The unit would be responsible for regulating the transport of hazardous material. The DCA will also be issuing handbooks on proper air transport practices and regulations.

Deputy permanent secretary for transport Voradet Harnprasert said a new transport law would be put into place under the authority of Gen Prayut. A new organization will also be formed to put an end to the DCA’s conflicting roles in operating regional airports and regulating transport.

Among all of ICAO’s tasks, the longest and most difficult to achieve will be the increased DCA personnel needed for airline certification.

The DCA has plans to increase this staff from 9 to 40. ICAO will later check on the standard of the personnel’s work. If endorsed, the ICAO will lift its safety concerns on the DCA. Some airlines will be providing 13 staff to the DCA, and the department will hire four more individuals. The Thai Pilots Association and the air force will also help fill the staffing gap.

If the DCA’s efforts are 80-90% complete by the June 2 deadline, there might be room for negotiation, according to Mr. Voradet.

-- 2015-04-08

[NongKhaiKid]

How can they be expected to meet a June deadline, this was only brought to attention years ago ?

Hardly enough time, Thai time that is.

[phuketandsee]

A compromise instead of meeting safety requirements. More pure Thainess

[chooka]

Hello Thailand, is there anyone home? You can't compromise on safety. The world has an entirely different attitude and you can't just slap a bit of sticky tape on it and say it will be right, no problem good tape made in Thailand.

[chainarong]

One can only wounder what planet this crowd are on , you mean to tell me that you would rather compromise on safety,other governments have no trouble in meeting the ICAO standards and if they don't they know the repercussions ,( Just ask Garuda) what makes you so special, as Khun Chooka states you don't compromise on safety and the general public of the world yes the world in case you wounder, your airlines travel outside of Thailand and other people around the world use them , deserve better service than what you are dishing out , there is no short cuts in Aviation standards at any level, you know that, now rectify the problems.

[khwaibah]

Screw safety. Thainess comes first.

[ChrisY1]

From the OP, it would seem that they are going to employ local people from airlines and the air force.....IMO, a mistake, that the ICAO would be able to see through.

Capable training is the first item that comes to mind......that and the Thai culture of being so easily corupted.....which is what likely got issue this to where it is now.

But.......as usual...avoid foreign employees at all costs......

[tx22cb]

I hope the ICAO will recognise that the Thai authorities are more concerned about protecting the commercial interests of Thai airlines/companies, than about the safety of the traveling public.

ICAO should take a very strict no-compromise stance - this short sharp knock, in the long run, will do more to help transform the Thai Aviation industry for the better.

[rametindallas]

A compromise instead of meeting safety requirements. More pure Thainess

There is no compromise with the ICAO. It is an international organization whose reputation will not risk making deals with a Thai government. How ignorant of you to make such a statement. Do you really thing the ICAO can be bought off? I understand you hate Thailand but your hate has clouded you reasoning ability; and that goes for those who 'liked' your stupid post.

[rametindallas]

One can only wounder what planet this crowd are on , you mean to tell me that you would rather compromise on safety,other governments have no trouble in meeting the ICAO standards and if they don't they know the repercussions ,( Just ask Garuda) what makes you so special, as Khun Chooka states you don't compromise on safety and the general public of the world yes the world in case you wounder, your airlines travel outside of Thailand and other people around the world use them , deserve better service than what you are dishing out , there is no short cuts in Aviation standards at any level, you know that, now rectify the problems.

'Hoping' for a compromise from the ICAO is not realistic. The ICAO is an independent body whose reputation rests on the assurance that there will be NO compromises when it comes to passenger safety. Thai aviation authorities can hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. I wish them well as a fail would be a tremendous loss to an already financially troubled system. I'm so glad the PM has Article 44 as a tool to remove anyone who wants money to stop being obstructionist as has been the case in government organizations. The ToT holding out on bids for 4G is an example of obstructionist officials wanting more under-the-table money to make things happen. This has got to stop as it is holding Thailand back. I can only guess what a pig's breakfast the Yingluck government would make of trying to remedy this aviation situation. Every day the PM is in office he demonstrates not only the uselessness of politicians but their damage to the country through their incompetence/obstructionism. I hope he stays in office long enough for Thailand to at least get back on an even keel.

[Fat Haggis]

A compromise instead of meeting safety requirements. More pure Thainess

There is no compromise with the ICAO. It is an international organization whose reputation will not risk making deals with a Thai government. How ignorant of you to make such a statement. Do you really thing the ICAO can be bought off? I understand you hate Thailand but your hate has clouded you reasoning ability; and that goes for those who 'liked' your stupid post.

Why are you being so obtuse in your reply ? The article itself is basing Thailands hopes of a compromise, instead of lashing out at the poster why not lash out at those authorities who indeed ARE looking for a compromise instead of fixing the shit that's broken immediately?

You then bash him for his hatred for Thailand but post after post after posts your hated for the PTP and all things Shins is no secret, what about your hatred?

If the THAI personnel hadn't cut corners or paid lip service to that report, they wouldn't be facing this situation !!!

Rip into their ineptitude and complacency!!!!!

And that's complete bulkshit in needing article 44 to fix this too, what was wrong with just sacking those responsible in the first place!!! That doesn't need article 44 but a backbone to accept things were not going too well in the industry.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Fat Haggis

[laocowboy2]

What part of "International STANDARDS" does he not get? A standard is a standard - either you meet it or you do not. And Thailand does not. You cannot 'negotiate' standards - only the timeline in which to meet them.

He will be wanting to repeal the law of gravity next - in order to help the airlines fly with less fuel :-)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The DCA has plans to increase this staff from 9 to 40. ICAO will later check on the standard of the personnel’s work. If endorsed, the ICAO will lift its safety concerns on the DCA.

Some airlines will be providing 13 staff to the DCA, and the department will hire four more individuals. The Thai Pilots Association and the air force will also help fill the staffing gap.

Depending on the particular jobs involved, doesn't it sound like a wee bit of conflict of interest for the government agency charged with REGULATING Thai commercial airlines to be hiring its new enforcement staff from those same airlines???

Probably a good way for THAI air to offload some of its dead wood staff that otherwise would be facing layoffs. But, are ANY of these new folks going to actually have the training and certifications to do their DCA regulatory jobs in compliance with ICAO standards?

Just because you worked for an airline in some capacity doesn't mean you're qualified to be a regulator.

[laocowboy2]

No- but you have probably learned a few bad habits and short-cuts around the rules

The DCA has plans to increase this staff from 9 to 40. ICAO will later check on the standard of the personnel’s work. If endorsed, the ICAO will lift its safety concerns on the DCA.

Some airlines will be providing 13 staff to the DCA, and the department will hire four more individuals. The Thai Pilots Association and the air force will also help fill the staffing gap.

Depending on the particular jobs involved, doesn't it sound like a wee bit of conflict of interest for the government agency charged with REGULATING Thai commercial airlines to be hiring its new enforcement staff from those same airlines???

Probably a good way for THAI air to offload some of its dead wood staff that otherwise would be facing layoffs. But, are ANY of these new folks going to actually have the training and certifications to do their DCA regulatory jobs in compliance with ICAO standards?

Just because you worked for an airline in some capacity doesn't mean you're qualified to be a regulator.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Hmmm, a compromise on safety standards??? That will play well after the next Thai air disaster. The Thai's just really don't get it do they?

[Suffinator]

Aviation authorities are hoping for a compromise from ICAO.

So what are they saying? Maybe that Thais are not the superior race on the planet and therefore need a compromise because they are not capable of meeting the safety standards?

You wouldn't get me on a Thai carrier for all the tea in China.

The transport authorities are looking to restore ICAO’s confidence within its June 2 deadline, but do not believe they will be able to satisfy every transport standards requirement.

And that statement just about says everything about the incompetence of the imbeciles running the show.

Officials met on Wednesday and agreed to form a new unit comprised of five officials under the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA).

So it's confirmed .... those currently in charge haven't got the foggiest idea what they are doing but to keep their worthless jobs they'll just create a new unit where other will hopefully be able to do the job while they sit back and oversee the processes. No wonder Thailand is in such a mess.

If the DCA’s efforts are 80-90% complete by the June 2 deadline, there might be room for negotiation, according to Mr. Voradet.

If the ICAO 'negotiate' that negates the need to have rules in place in the first instance. The Thais need to stop thinking that everyone can be bought off ... I wonder if their negotiation tactics will include the attempt to hand over a brown envelope?

Seriously .... who in their right mind would step on an Thai carrier knowing this type of idiocy plays out on a daily basis.

[DKUNPUTAF713]

I have already forwarded a copy of this news item and TVF replies to ICAO for their review

and consideration.

I expect to continue to fly in safety even if Thailand doesn't care

[Srikcir]

"the longest and most difficult to achieve will be the increased DCA personnel needed for airline certification."

Likely to take at least until 2016. Somehow I don't think ICAO will be impressed if Prayut invokes Article 44 to make certification happen overnight.

[bruceybonus]

Screw safety. Thainess comes first.

Money comes first, then thainess & safety is well down the pecking order

[NeilSA1]

A compromise instead of meeting safety requirements. More pure Thainess

There is no compromise with the ICAO. It is an international organization whose reputation will not risk making deals with a Thai government. How ignorant of you to make such a statement. Do you really thing the ICAO can be bought off? I understand you hate Thailand but your hate has clouded you reasoning ability; and that goes for those who 'liked' your stupid post.

Why are you being so obtuse in your reply ? The article itself is basing Thailands hopes of a compromise, instead of lashing out at the poster why not lash out at those authorities who indeed ARE looking for a compromise instead of fixing the shit that's broken immediately?

You then bash him for his hatred for Thailand but post after post after posts your hated for the PTP and all things Shins is no secret, what about your hatred?

If the THAI personnel hadn't cut corners or paid lip service to that report, they wouldn't be facing this situation !!!

Rip into their ineptitude and complacency!!!!!

And that's complete bulkshit in needing article 44 to fix this too, what was wrong with just sacking those responsible in the first place!!! That doesn't need article 44 but a backbone to accept things were not going too well in the industry.

I am not siding with any one individual. The PTP (2008 to 2011) and TRT (2001 - 2006) were in power for the most of this century, and seemingly did very little to fix problems which are now surfacing, and the current "non elected' government under the leadership of the General have the unenviable task of rectifying matters. I try not to hate anyone or anything, but I do hold the PTP in contempt. (Wikipedia - .... disgust and anger ) and I fully agree with your statement " If the THAI personnel hadn't cut corners or paid lip service to that report, they wouldn't be facing this situation !!! "

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Screw safety. Thainess comes first.

Screw Thailand, if that is the way in which a supposably dedicated Government body to Airline safety behaves, Prayut - O -Cha should hand it over to us at TV, we could do a better job, you are now in-charge of flight crew audits and moral values at airports.

[stoffel45]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

[samran]

I have already forwarded a copy of this news item and TVF replies to ICAO for their review

and consideration.

I expect to continue to fly in safety even if Thailand doesn't care

Yes, hand it over to the qualified netizens of Thai Visa.....that'll work.

[Fat Haggis]

But why blame the governments for an issue that the airlines themselves should have dealt with, the blame game and finger pointing is why nothing ever changes here, it's always someone else's fault

It's the personnel within the industry that should be getting the flak, THEY are the ones ignoring the issues. sack the boards but the problem here is the boards are full of HiSo cronies of those sat at the trough!!

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

I assume that you are still waiting for a reply from THAI ?

[BSJ]

I read in this forum only a few days ago that the PM had a plan to sort it out! If he said it it must be true! But if there is a compromise it will be for the right reasons.

[DKUNPUTAF713]

Posted Today, 13:59

DKUNPUTAF713, on 09 Apr 2015 - 10:58, said:

I have already forwarded a copy of this news item and TVF replies to ICAO for their review
and consideration.

I expect to continue to fly in safety even if Thailand doesn't care

Yes, hand it over to the qualified netizens of Thai Visa.....that'll work.

Did your family raise any more like you?

I hope not!

[clockman]

10 years they have had! To solve the problem. Typical, same as fake goods, people trafficing, ivory, The list goes on. The only way to change anything in Thailand. Is by force and taking there money.

[rametindallas]

But why blame the governments for an issue that the airlines themselves should have dealt with, the blame game and finger pointing is why nothing ever changes here, it's always someone else's fault

It's the personnel within the industry that should be getting the flak, THEY are the ones ignoring the issues. sack the boards but the problem here is the boards are full of HiSo cronies of those sat at the trough!!

But why blame the governments for an issue that the airlines themselves should have dealt with

Because the airlines are not independent commercial enterprises as it is government that appoints the officers on the Board of Directors and they have ALL been political appointees (regardless of party in power) who, because this is Thailand and they can get away with it, have hired friends and family without regard to qualifications and, because they had powerful patrons in high places in the government, they were never held accountable. Thailand is a country of 'who you know' rather than 'what you know' so everything was swept under the proverbial rug. Now that the chickens have finally come home to roost and the dirt under the rug is so thick a blind man can tell, it is going to take some fast action to avoid the shutting down of Thailand's entire international airline business. Article 44 allows the PM to bypass the drawn-out process of removing certain individuals and greatly speeds up the setting up of a body to oversee the qualifications (vetting) of those who are being hired to expand the Dept. of Civil Aviation. Under the General, it is very much less likely his appointees will be politically connected and more likely they will be qualified.

Responding to your earlier post #11, Yes, the Shinawatra clan disgusts me but that disgust is never translated to disgust for Thailand. If the poster I responded to had aimed his criticism at the aviation officials who were hoping for leniency, I would not have responded but he slurred Thailand and that bothers me. There is plenty of wrong in Thailand, as in every country, and generalizations really bring out my ire. As an American, for years I had to defend myself from being called George Bush (I thought he was a horrible president). All Thais are not guilty of 'Thainess', which has become a slur on this forum, just the same as all Americans are not George Bush.

It's the personnel within the industry that should be getting the flak, THEY are the ones ignoring the issues. sack the boards but the problem here is the boards are full of HiSo cronies of those sat at the trough!!

I completely agree and the focus of the criticism should lie there and not on 'Thainess'. Those responding to the ills of Thailand by simply saying 'Thainess' are bashing the whole country and not just the guilty parties. It's a cheap shot at Thai people in general.

[rametindallas]

If THAI airlines don't comply with International Safety standards - and from all reports they do not - then passengers should book with a safe airline.

I wrote to THAI this week and said that unless I was assured an Internationally Accepted Safety ruling - with no ifs or buts - I would cancel my family's July trip - even though it means a loss of the fares.

These "functionaries" of THAI do not have the right to play with lives of passengers and crew, nor to destroy what little reputation THAI have left.

Don't worry. If THAI doesn't comply by June 2, they won't have landing rights at any foreign airports that are under the jurisdiction of the ICAO and you won't be able to book with THAI anyway.