Scooters in Chiang Mai - Good Idea or Bad Idea?

[mr chow]

Bottom line....(DELETED)
Once you're sick of the Usual trappings of the old city and such you MUST get outside the city to see the REAL Thailand?
Drive scooter, enjoy. Be very careful. You can't see this in the city...

[toesolipsolie]

Thanks for the awesome information everybody. I just looked up how to get an International Driver's Permit - will be applying first thing next week. Doesn't look like a very long or arduous process at all.

One more quick question - you're able to legally drive for 60 days with an IDP in Thailand from what I've read. Does that "60 day legality" renew once you renew your tourist visa through a visa run? Like - you leave the country, come back, and you're good for another 60 days of legal driving?

T- Wulfie,

I have friends who have lived in BK, Pattaya, Chang-Mai for decades and haven't been involved in any accidents.

My take on is it safe or not is based exactly on what has worked for me when on a scooter or even a bicycle ( your still on 2 wheels just slower),....drive hyper defensively as possible. Scan whats in front of you, left, right like you never have before. Go with the flow in traffic, not slower, not faster.

I can say that it's been a good idea for me and most likely for those reasons but,....shit happens but it hasn't happened to me.

All I do on the I.D.L. is go to a AAA office here in the states, pay $15, they will charge you more if you dont bring 2 passport size photo's. I have 3 old ones that I use, some are 5-6 years old and all I ever do is hand it to the Police and sometimes it's the very old, very expired,act dumb and end up paying the 200, (400 Baht in Pattaya) I'm going to have to pay them anyway for the alleged traffic violation.

My information is a few years old and maybe things are enforced differently now.

Don't know if any of this helps and things may be different in Chang Mai so good luck with it and be careful.

[kanook]

Not sure how long you plan to stay in Chaing Mai, but since you are coming here on a one way ticket, I assume that you plan on staying long term. If you plan on staying long term in CM you will probably need your own transportation. Hasn't been mentioned yet, but if you do plan on staying here for at least 6 months, it would be a better idea to buy a scooter. I recommend this for a couple of reasons, first it will be safer because there is a high probability that your rental scooter is not properly maintained and it's not worth the risk from a safety standpoint. The second reason is that it will probably be more cost effective to buy (new or used) your own bike. If you are planning to stay long term and you can afford to spend a little more for the first few weeks or a month, it is not a bad idea to find short term accommodation in a central area and take some time getting used to how traffic works here by not riding a scooter for the first few days or even a week. It cannot be overstated; driving a scooter or motorbike in Thailand is VERY dangerous, but there are many small things you can do to mitigate the danger and it will take time to figure out which work best for you.

[chingmai331]

IMO, best to rent a bicycle for the first 2 weeks and see how traffic goes in CM. Frankly, i find the pedal bike superior in town. I also have an old car for out-of-town. Would not consider a motorbike. I would not wrestle crocodiles either, though some folks do.

[mesquite]

Forget the whole idea of renting a motorbike. They are death traps. Use Songtaews.

Don't try to come to CM on a one way ticket without a visa.

[teflonwulfie]

Thanks again for the advice.

So here's what I'm going to do. I just did a little research and apparently it's MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and faster to make sure I'm 100% legal driving a scooter (if I decide to do so) before I get there. That way I'll be covered by World Nomads travel insurance.

* It's only going to cost me $15 to get an international driver's permit from AAA which I'm going to go in for next week

* It's only going to cost me $200 to take a motorcycle driving course, which takes place on the weekend (Saturday and Sunday) over the course of 20 hours (8AM to 6PM) in which case, after I complete it, I am able to immediately go and get my motorcycle license and will be able to wave both the written and riding portions of the test.

So - pretty cut and dry!



- William

[teflonwulfie]

Forget the whole idea of renting a motorbike. They are death traps. Use Songtaews.

Don't try to come to CM on a one way ticket without a visa.

People keep telling me not to come without a visa, but why would you go anywhere without getting a visa first? I'm pretty sure this is common sense.

[zeichen]

"but why would you go anywhere without getting a visa first? I'm pretty sure this is common sense."

Because many countries don't require a proper visa to enter. You can get 30 day entry just arriving at the airport. Some other countries give you 90 days without a visa.

If you go to the Thai consulate and get a dual entry tourist visa. You will get 60 days, then go to immigration when that is about to expire pay 2k baht or whatever the cost is now and renew for 30 days. Then do a border run up to Maesai, get another 60 days, and then renew again for 30 more days. That will give you 6 months. But after that you will need to go to another Thai consulate to get a new Visa.

Or you can get an ED visa, but to be honest since most people don't get them for the right reasons, they have been cracking down.

My only advice to you is expect surprises and regard all information and advice lightly. Every single person will tell you something different because everyone here has had different experiences.

Good luck and enjoy your time here. Don't do anything too stupid. Don't act like a foreigner here. Learn the customs from proper Thai people, not from sweaty old guys wearing shorts and beer chang T-shirts talking loudly at people.

[Trujillo]

I have ridden a Vespa for 20 years in Asia and a scooter for nine in Thailand, plus travel destinations in between.

My advice is this: If you have never ridden a scooter or motorbike, be very careful and take it slow and easy.

The fact is that you can't live here without your own transportation, period (forget what other posters say about taking a songtao, tuk tuk or taxi. If you were here for a few weeks, I'd say okay, but longer? No way.).

The fact is that drivers here can be somewhat free-form, rude (by Western standards -- nothing compared to say, Egyptians) and simply bad drivers.

However, having said that, don't be dissuaded by people here saying how dangerous and life-threatening driving a scooter is. These are similar comments to those made, for example, by people visiting the wet markets and saying, "Oh my God! The meats are laying out without refrigeration! And the flies! This stuff is not fit for human consumption. Look at the cooked foods sitting there in the heat all day! OMG!"

The truth is that if you drive moderately, keep your wits about you, gain experience through practice, keep with the flow of traffic (don't go too slow) and relax, you will have no problem.

Obviously, you need to have all your paperwork/licence/registration in order and always wear a lid. ...and don't drink before you drive.

Biking is great fun and opens your horizons. Do it!

[nivram4491]

Bottom line....

Once you're sick of the Usual trappings of the old city and such you MUST get outside the city to see the REAL Thailand?

Drive scooter, enjoy. Be very careful. You can't see this in the city..

I'm on my second new Honda Wave 125 and have done around 100K km around Chiang Mai over the past 14 years.

I had 2 minor accidents within the first 2 months of getting my first Honda Wave. Once I forced myself to forget about traffic rules in my home country and learned from observing the Thais I haven't had an accident since.

I don't agree that Thais are insane on scooters. The vast majority ride scooters sensibly and predictably. Whenever I encounter an idiot weaving in and out of traffic lanes at high speeds frequently it is an over confident young farang.

[TheAppletons]

I have ridden a Vespa for 20 years in Asia and a scooter for nine in Thailand, plus travel destinations in between.

My advice is this: If you have never ridden a scooter or motorbike, be very careful and take it slow and easy.

The fact is that you can't live here without your own transportation, period (forget what other posters say about taking a songtao, tuk tuk or taxi. If you were here for a few weeks, I'd say okay, but longer? No way.).

The fact is that drivers here can be somewhat free-form, rude (by Western standards -- nothing compared to say, Egyptians) and simply bad drivers.

However, having said that, don't be dissuaded by people here saying how dangerous and life-threatening driving a scooter is. These are similar comments to those made, for example, by people visiting the wet markets and saying, "Oh my God! The meats are laying out without refrigeration! And the flies! This stuff is not fit for human consumption. Look at the cooked foods sitting there in the heat all day! OMG!"

The truth is that if you drive moderately, keep your wits about you, gain experience through practice, keep with the flow of traffic (don't go too slow) and relax, you will have no problem.

Obviously, you need to have all your paperwork/licence/registration in order and always wear a lid. ...and don't drink before you drive.

Biking is great fun and opens your horizons. Do it!

Speak for yourself. Plenty of us live here long term and - believe it or not - do just fine without driving.

[umbanda]

I was thinking of looking for a place to live around the front of Chiang Mai University (near Lanna Muay Thai gym - not that the reason I'm going is strictly due to martial arts). For everybody telling me not to rent a scooter, could you give me an idea on how much I'd pay just using taxis? I work from home and would of course be going out to eat and needing to get around the area - may go out on the weekends. Do you think like $5, $10, $20 a day? What did you spend when you first got there?

After 2 years spending weekends in Chiang Mai, and totally of more than 4 years in Thailand, I NEVER will use an scooter here. It is very easy for a foreigner to get into an accident for many reasons, and always the results will be against it. Tuk tuk is the faster, cheaper, and safer transportation in most cities, and most rides will be between $3 to $6 max. in Chiang Mai for daily short trips. Long trips can be negotiated, but tuk tuk cannot ride into some freeways.

The best way is to find a driver that speak a little English and is able to pick up you anywhere after a call in advance.

My tuk tuk guy in Chiang Mai do that most of the times I am there. (DELETED). Will wait for you at the airport, take to town for about $3, and most rides in town for the same money for up to 3 people. Late at night may be a problem to find a ride for a decent price, better to be with a Thai friend with car. If you need info about hotels, etc, send me a message.

Welcome to Chiang Mai. It is a great city.

PM for Details

[umbanda]

Thanks again for the advice.

So here's what I'm going to do. I just did a little research and apparently it's MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and faster to make sure I'm 100% legal driving a scooter (if I decide to do so) before I get there. That way I'll be covered by World Nomads travel insurance.

* It's only going to cost me $15 to get an international driver's permit from AAA which I'm going to go in for next week

* It's only going to cost me $200 to take a motorcycle driving course, which takes place on the weekend (Saturday and Sunday) over the course of 20 hours (8AM to 6PM) in which case, after I complete it, I am able to immediately go and get my motorcycle license and will be able to wave both the written and riding portions of the test.

So - pretty cut and dry!

- William

Again..for a short and pleasure trip....Do not ride a motorbike in Thailand! With $200 you will have a lot more fun in Chiang Mai than getting a motorcycle license! Believe me!

[umbanda]

I have ridden a Vespa for 20 years in Asia and a scooter for nine in Thailand, plus travel destinations in between.

My advice is this: If you have never ridden a scooter or motorbike, be very careful and take it slow and easy.

The fact is that you can't live here without your own transportation, period (forget what other posters say about taking a songtao, tuk tuk or taxi. If you were here for a few weeks, I'd say okay, but longer? No way.).

The fact is that drivers here can be somewhat free-form, rude (by Western standards -- nothing compared to say, Egyptians) and simply bad drivers.

However, having said that, don't be dissuaded by people here saying how dangerous and life-threatening driving a scooter is. These are similar comments to those made, for example, by people visiting the wet markets and saying, "Oh my God! The meats are laying out without refrigeration! And the flies! This stuff is not fit for human consumption. Look at the cooked foods sitting there in the heat all day! OMG!"

The truth is that if you drive moderately, keep your wits about you, gain experience through practice, keep with the flow of traffic (don't go too slow) and relax, you will have no problem.

Obviously, you need to have all your paperwork/licence/registration in order and always wear a lid. ...and don't drink before you drive.

Biking is great fun and opens your horizons. Do it!

With close to 30 years experience driving a motorbike in Asia, I may believe that you know what you are doing...but our friend NEVER did, and I meet Thai people very often walking with cast legs and bandages..ask any hospital nurse about what they see every day at work..... You and many take that risk and nothing bad happens for years...until.... I hope never will happen with you.

[lexilis]

Teflon: Good on you. You are asking the right questions and are thinking ahead. Some good advice on the thread (along with some of the usual TV tripe). I've had motorcycles as my main transportation in Thailand for nearly twenty years. I'll echo some of the things said upthread. Yes, get all your paperwork in order prior (visas, insurance, etc). You can get decent motorcycle accident insurance fairly cheaply here in Thailand (less than a couple of hundred $ per year) as a supplement to whatever insurance you have. Yes, spend a couple of weeks on a bicycle first. That will be a much better way to learn the layout of place and to observe the traffic. Your experience driving around Atlanta does not prepare you for driving in Thailand as it will lull you into thinking you know how things will "flow" and that you can predict what people might do. Yes, take the motorcycle instruction course (the best one you find and afford). After you get acclimated rent for a day or so a couple of different scooters to find the type you like then buy one. Don't do a long term rental. Those are terribly maintained and you want to keep your tires, brakes, etc. in top condition always here. Do NOT get a big bike (500cc +) to start with. Do NOT think that after a week or so you are ready to do the Mae Hong Son loop and the trip to Pai. If you are here for the long term, take it real slow in order to make sure you have a long term. Thailand is a very dangerous place to drive motorcycles BUT if you take it slow, learn the conditions, and are smart you will be fine. Welcome to Chiang Mai. Enjoy.

[umbanda]

Not sure how long you plan to stay in Chaing Mai, but since you are coming here on a one way ticket, I assume that you plan on staying long term. If you plan on staying long term in CM you will probably need your own transportation. Hasn't been mentioned yet, but if you do plan on staying here for at least 6 months, it would be a better idea to buy a scooter. I recommend this for a couple of reasons, first it will be safer because there is a high probability that your rental scooter is not properly maintained and it's not worth the risk from a safety standpoint. The second reason is that it will probably be more cost effective to buy (new or used) your own bike. If you are planning to stay long term and you can afford to spend a little more for the first few weeks or a month, it is not a bad idea to find short term accommodation in a central area and take some time getting used to how traffic works here by not riding a scooter for the first few days or even a week. It cannot be overstated; driving a scooter or motorbike in Thailand is VERY dangerous, but there are many small things you can do to mitigate the danger and it will take time to figure out which work best for you.

Bad advice.

By my own experience.

A second hand motorbike can be a MELON and something to worry in a pleasure trip, and for sure, a waste of money and time.

Accidents may not happens...but it is a risk, and all that recommendations from you means....STRESS.

Who needs ALL that in a pleasure trip?

Looks like the OP is a young guy.....Before getting a motorbike...will be better for him to find a girlfriend with own transportation and time, and in Chiang Mai, that is very easy to achieve....too easy sometimes.

That is the only "risk" in Chiang Mai that makes sense to take.

[chingmai331]

There's the ticket to happiness! Grab a Thai girl friend who has an extra motorbike in her garage. The Thai girls can usually be found waiting near 7-11 shops hoping to attract a foreign boy friend, pref white skinned. She will be drinking Coke from a can through a straw. Ask first if she has motorbike before further engagement.

[kanook]

Thanks again for the advice.

So here's what I'm going to do. I just did a little research and apparently it's MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and faster to make sure I'm 100% legal driving a scooter (if I decide to do so) before I get there. That way I'll be covered by World Nomads travel insurance.

* It's only going to cost me $15 to get an international driver's permit from AAA which I'm going to go in for next week

* It's only going to cost me $200 to take a motorcycle driving course, which takes place on the weekend (Saturday and Sunday) over the course of 20 hours (8AM to 6PM) in which case, after I complete it, I am able to immediately go and get my motorcycle license and will be able to wave both the written and riding portions of the test.

So - pretty cut and dry!

- William

You seem to be a smart guy and I'm sure you will enjoy your stay here. Welcome to the Chiang Mai forum and soon, to Chiang Mai.

[mr chow]

Training video

The reality of it all!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Bottom line....

Once you're sick of the Usual trappings of the old city and such you MUST get outside the city to see the REAL Thailand?

Drive scooter, enjoy. Be very careful. You can't see this in the city...ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1428684926.461648.jpg

Right.. though you could also just do that in a car, and live to post about it.

[FolkGuitar]

There is no question about the fact that driving a motorcycle or motor scooter in Thailand is dangerous. Far MORE dangerous than driving in in US.

Of course, there's also no question about the fact that LIVING in Atlanta is far more dangerous than living in Chiang Mai. So what?

If one is intelligent, one learns what is needed to know to mitigate the risks, and enjoys what life has to offer. One does NOT hide in a closet.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Here is a wonderful quote by a very strong woman, a quote that transformed my life for the better;

Security is mostly a superstition. Security does
not exist in nature, nor do the children of men
as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no
safer in the long run than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

If a deaf, dumb, and blind woman can feel that way, so can you. (No pinball jokes, please.)

[mesquite]

There is no question about the fact that driving a motorcycle or motor scooter in Thailand is dangerous. Far MORE dangerous than driving in in US.

Of course, there's also no question about the fact that LIVING in Atlanta is far more dangerous than living in Chiang Mai. So what?

If one is intelligent, one learns what is needed to know to mitigate the risks, and enjoys what life has to offer. One does NOT hide in a closet.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Here is a wonderful quote by a very strong woman, a quote that transformed my life for the better;

Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

If a deaf, dumb, and blind woman can feel that way, so can you. (No pinball jokes, please.)

What kind of scooter did she ride?

[Loptr]

IMO, best to rent a bicycle for the first 2 weeks and see how traffic goes in CM. Frankly, i find the pedal bike superior in town. I also have an old car for out-of-town. Would not consider a motorbike. I would not wrestle crocodiles either, though some folks do.

I live about 10 kilometers outside of town... When I want to just putz around the old city, I leave the motorcycle at home, throw my mountain bike in the truck, head into town and park down near Nong Buak Hard park... I then pedal around the old city at my leisure without having to keep up with traffic or walk my arse off... It's hard to take in everything there is to see on a motorbike...

[TheAppletons]

There is no question about the fact that driving a motorcycle or motor scooter in Thailand is dangerous. Far MORE dangerous than driving in in US.

Of course, there's also no question about the fact that LIVING in Atlanta is far more dangerous than living in Chiang Mai. So what?

If one is intelligent, one learns what is needed to know to mitigate the risks, and enjoys what life has to offer. One does NOT hide in a closet.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Here is a wonderful quote by a very strong woman, a quote that transformed my life for the better;

Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

If a deaf, dumb, and blind woman can feel that way, so can you. (No pinball jokes, please.)

That's taking something out of context to a whole new level.

Here let me try that:

Q: Isn't it dangerous to drink and drive? A: "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

Q: It's not safe to snort heroin, is it? A: "Security is mostly a superstition. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it."

Q: If my child is alone and an armed man breaks into our house, should he hide in the closet for safety? A: "One does NOT hide in a closet. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure."

Awesome advice, thanks.

[sharktooth]

As a wannabe philosopher posted on a thread about Songkran... When in Rome. The way that nugget applies to this thread is as follows: do not even think about getting on the bike until you are completely hammered. never ever wear a helmet. red green and Amber traffic lights always means GO. don't worry about driving on the correct side of the road as none of the locals do. Text and talk on your phone while riding at all times. There is NO maximum load on a bike. Having a license is illegal so don't bother with that nonsense. Indicators are obsolete as no one cares where you are going: Stealth is the key therefore drive like a ninja!

[kjhbigv]

If you have never ridden a "big bike" or scooter before in your home country, think very carefully about a scooter. Just because it's a little 125cc scooter, the damage you can do to yourself can be very bad!

Hospital bills here can be expensive. Also, don't expect the level of care would would receive if you were involved in an accident in the USA, no proper medics on scene, no helicopter, no roadside trauma team...just scraped up and taken to hospital. In fact, only a few months ago I helped a US citizen lying in the middle of the Super Highway with cars driving around him as he lay injured in the middle of the road!

I have ridden bikes here for 7 years and in the UK for 20 years or so BUT you need to be more vigilant, observant, aware and road savvy here, then in your home country.

However, saying that, I would never stop riding a bike here, it gives you freedom and generally makes life a lot easier IMO.

With regards to laws here.....they are a bit vague....many people don't even have a licence...things are not quite as "black and white" here as in the USA.

If you go for it, take your time, step by step and everything slow and smooth, no radical changes in direction and be observant! Don't become a statistic here!

Just my pennies worth.

[kjhbigv]

There is no question about the fact that driving a motorcycle or motor scooter in Thailand is dangerous. Far MORE dangerous than driving in in US.

Of course, there's also no question about the fact that LIVING in Atlanta is far more dangerous than living in Chiang Mai. So what?

If one is intelligent, one learns what is needed to know to mitigate the risks, and enjoys what life has to offer. One does NOT hide in a closet.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Here is a wonderful quote by a very strong woman, a quote that transformed my life for the better;

Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

If a deaf, dumb, and blind woman can feel that way, so can you. (No pinball jokes, please.)

I agree, but someone arriving in Thailand, riding a scooter for the first time "to enjoy what life has to offer" is not the greatest bit of advice I would give for someone wanting to ride a scooter for the first time.

You need to put it into context.

"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure"....so NOT riding a scooter here is no safer than riding a scooter here? Or are you comparing to riding a scooter in CM to getting shot in CM?

The risks of being hurt on a scooter are CONSIDERABLE and in fact, I would say, highly likely to a novice/beginner rider here.

BUT I understand your sentiment, to a degree.

[JulieM]

This may have been mentioned by someone else, but one piece of driving advice I received when I first came to town was to make sure you are never following the red pick-up trucks which are used for public transportation. The drivers of these trucks are always looking for customers and their driving can be very erratic and they can stop on a dime.

When finding myself behind one, I was always careful to slow down and let him get far ahead of me.

Also, I was told never to pass a car or another bike and I found that to be helpful advice as well.

[PHP87]

I plan on buying a Click or a PCX or some iteration of a 125 or 150cc scooter once I'm in CM for good.

I won't be riding at night or during busy times. Too many drunks at night, too many idiots during rush hour.

I will be buying a used scooter from a Farang - better maintenance than from buying from a local that never changes the oil and skimps on other basic maintenance.

I've ridden a bicycle and a scooter in Downtown San Francisco during rush hour, so I'm somewhat initiated into the world of driving a scooter in a crazy car environment.

At night and in rainy weather, I will take Tuk-tuks, Cabs, Songthaews, etc...

And a good helmet is mandatory.

[FolkGuitar]

There is no question about the fact that driving a motorcycle or motor scooter in Thailand is dangerous. Far MORE dangerous than driving in in US.

Of course, there's also no question about the fact that LIVING in Atlanta is far more dangerous than living in Chiang Mai. So what?

If one is intelligent, one learns what is needed to know to mitigate the risks, and enjoys what life has to offer. One does NOT hide in a closet.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Here is a wonderful quote by a very strong woman, a quote that transformed my life for the better;

Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

If a deaf, dumb, and blind woman can feel that way, so can you. (No pinball jokes, please.)

That's taking something out of context to a whole new level.

Here let me try that:

Q: Isn't it dangerous to drink and drive? A: "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

Q: It's not safe to snort heroin, is it? A: "Security is mostly a superstition. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it."

Q: If my child is alone and an armed man breaks into our house, should he hide in the closet for safety? A: "One does NOT hide in a closet. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure."

Awesome advice, thanks.

For you, I heartily recommend hiding in the closet. You will be much better off.