UPS hostage situation for clothes shipped from the States

[ezzra]

I shipped in from the state small amount of vitamins, only to be told that the Thai FDA need

to see an import license, ok, ship it back to the shipper than, no sir, no can do, you need

a prescription from a US doctor so we can ship it back, cut a long story short, spoke to the

super at DHL and showed him how absurd their demands are, and lo and behold, he agreed

with me and shipped it back....

[oneday]

The reason USPS is the way to go is because they hand off to the regular Thai Post and for some reason they have a fairly decent reputation for NOT pulling this scam. I've read where all the foreign 3rd party delivery companies have this problem to one extent or another.

The main difference is (IMO) employees of the Thai post are government employees and employees of 3rd party companies such as DHL, UPS and FedEx are employees of private companies. Yeah, I know, government people aren't known for being free from corruption, but in this case it may just be harder to pull off for a Thai Post employee.

My advice is to call UPS's head office and complain. If you have a tracking number then they will know which office is pulling this scam and you may just help the next guy by rooting out these crooks.

UPS Parcel Delivery Service Ltd.
Head Office
16/1 Soi Sukhumvit 44/1
Sukhumvit Road, Prakhanong, Klongtoey
Bangkok 10110
Thailand
Tel.: 66 2728 9000
Fax: 66 2712 1818

Edited April 11, 2015 by oneday

[p_brownstone]

The arithmetic that Don Mega showed is wrong. The import duty is calculated on the value of the goods, not including the shipping cost. Then after the import duty is added, there may be VAT.

Megas' calculation is correct - Thailand, and most other Countries, calculate Import Duty on the C.I.F. value of the Shipment ;

Cost of Goods + Insurance + Freight

Patrick

[mokwit]

My observation with couriers is that the paperwork is never the original customs paperwork it is always paperwork from an agent and the duty charged is always very high.................................

[curtklay]

Yes, they do include the shipping cost when calculating the duty.

Also, even shipments by postal service are now being flagged if the declared value is over 1000 baht. My recent experience was a pair of shoes valued at $50 and marked "gift" on the customs form, got nailed for 30% plus 7% VAT. I have never been charged previously on imports shipped by postal service. Just another one of many changes courtesy of the regime.

Edited April 11, 2015 by curtklay

[bendejo]

I wonder why is USPS or other government courier services are never in this sort of situation ? Anybody had a bad experience with those also ?

I knew a guy used do a lot of shipping of small things of quality (like silk). I went to the PO with him once, all of his packages were those large shipping envelopes. In the early 2000s he said things started going crazy with fees etc, in situations where same shipments previously went through without notice. He figured out it was a lot better to use gov't postal services over commercial services. He reckoned that Uncle Sam's War on Terror influence was forcing the commercial services to be strictly compliant with the rules, whereas post offices operate in their own world. So his theory is that it's not that the customs depts are getting tough, but rather the services became strict to cover their backsides should they be called to task.

[Jimbolai]

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I wonder why is USPS or other government courier services are never in this sort of situation ? Anybody had a bad experience with those also ?

with my experience non-courier services (normal post) a lot of the times the parcels simply come in under the radar, occasionally I do get stung for import taxes and duties but that is rare.

With companies like UPS, they always do the customs calculations and also do the collecting.

Yeah these companies are hideous. Lesson is don't ever use any of those big courier companies to get stuff from abroad into Thailand.

Not into Thailand or any other country. Use the government postal system on both ends and have no problems. I too learned that the hard way. Having said that, UPS is ok from one USA starting point to a USA destination.

[TobiasML]

You're American right? You hardly know what tax is.

So Thailand has high import tax on clothing. So does India, so does South Africa, so does Brazil. The idea is to protect the local industry. Probably 40%, by the sound of it. UPS will add handling/customs fees.

The arithmetic

<< That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again. >>

it depends on the country. Typically, the PO depot / international hub has a Customs department, staffed by Revenue Service / Customs. If you use post services instead of courier, they will calculate the import duty and you pay when you collect the parcel.

The arithmetic that Don Mega showed is wrong. The import duty is calculated on the value of the goods, not including the shipping cost. Then after the import duty is added, there may be VAT.

with my experience non-courier services (normal post) a lot of the times the parcels simply come in under the radar, occasionally I do get stung for import taxes and duties but that is rare.

Same in SA. But if it's labeled as Clothing [or whatever - computer components or whatever] the import duty will be applied.

Sorry to correct you, but the import duty is calculated based on the CIF value. That means purchase price + transport + insurance

The vat is calculated based on CIF value + duty paid

[Suradit69]

If you refuse delivery, they to return to sender, you claim a refund as the goods have been returned.

That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again.

"I also never ever used a courier service again."

Yes, never use a courier service for anything other than documents (and even then it's just as easy to use EMS or Priority Mail unless it's extremely urgent). Never use eBay's Global shipping service either. They're designed to ensure you pay or pre-pay the maximum possible customs duty. Post Office is far better. Sometimes you'll get hit with duty, but not always. Averaged out it's far less painful.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Suradit69

[new2here]

Part of the problem is that private express carriers charge an independent "brokerage" fee where the package is classified by the importing country as a non-document shipment.

Most document* shipments clear without the need for any formal brokerage action.

(Documents are usually papers only, but can be things like catalogues, printouts, drafts or even CDs of this data)

Most non-document shipments are either deemed dutiable or non-dutiable based on the HTS code, country or origin and manufacturer and other shipment specifics.

If it's a non-document shipment and dutiable, then the brokerage agent will prepare and act as agent for the consignor.

With most express carriers, they essentially "front" up a customs bond so that any package that is cleared by customs BUT has a tax due status can be retained by the express carrier, pending payment from the consignee.

With public post, there is no independent brokerage as the postal agent deals with the process internally.

Unfortunately, there really is no cap on what a carrier may charge for their brokerage fees.. Also, while a technicality, the brokerage entity is an operating subsidiary of the parent express company itself. In the case of UPS, that's their SCS or Supply Chain Solutions subsidiary.

Edited April 11, 2015 by new2here

[rahul213]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The reason USPS is the way to go is because they hand off to the regular Thai Post and for some reason they have a fairly decent reputation for NOT pulling this scam. I've read where all the foreign 3rd party delivery companies have this problem to one extent or another.

The main difference is (IMO) employees of the Thai post are government employees and employees of 3rd party companies such as DHL, UPS and FedEx are employees of private companies. Yeah, I know, government people aren't known for being free from corruption, but in this case it may just be harder to pull off for a Thai Post employee.

My advice is to call UPS's head office and complain. If you have a tracking number then they will know which office is pulling this scam and you may just help the next guy by rooting out these crooks.

UPS Parcel Delivery Service Ltd.
Head Office
16/1 Soi Sukhumvit 44/1
Sukhumvit Road, Prakhanong, Klongtoey
Bangkok 10110
Thailand
Tel.: 66 2728 9000
Fax: 66 2712 1818

I did write an email to them. They said they would look into the matter. So I am waiting to see if they do anything

[TravelerEastWest]

You're American right? You hardly know what tax is.

So Thailand has high import tax on clothing. So does India, so does South Africa, so does Brazil. The idea is to protect the local industry. Probably 40%, by the sound of it. UPS will add handling/customs fees.

The arithmetic

<< That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again. >>

it depends on the country. Typically, the PO depot / international hub has a Customs department, staffed by Revenue Service / Customs. If you use post services instead of courier, they will calculate the import duty and you pay when you collect the parcel.

The arithmetic that Don Mega showed is wrong. The import duty is calculated on the value of the goods, not including the shipping cost. Then after the import duty is added, there may be VAT.

with my experience non-courier services (normal post) a lot of the times the parcels simply come in under the radar, occasionally I do get stung for import taxes and duties but that is rare.

Same in SA. But if it's labeled as Clothing [or whatever - computer components or whatever] the import duty will be applied.

Sorry to correct you, but the import duty is calculated based on the CIF value. That means purchase price + transport + insurance

The vat is calculated based on CIF value + duty paid

Correct, CIF for duty then VAT is calculated on CIF plus duty.

200 baht is a customs fee then there is airline storage fees and soon and clearing fees for a formal clearance around 1284 baht if I remember correctly.

Sometimes the freight in the CIF calculation is a customs supplied number not the actual freight sometimes one tarif amount is charged for duty instead of another.

Most of the people in the post who claim they are being ripped off by UPS DHL etc are not business people who import regularly.

The post office often but not always does not get around to collecting small customs fees so use the post office if your package is small.

[h90]

You're American right? You hardly know what tax is.

So Thailand has high import tax on clothing. So does India, so does South Africa, so does Brazil. The idea is to protect the local industry. Probably 40%, by the sound of it. UPS will add handling/customs fees.

The arithmetic

<< That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again. >>

it depends on the country. Typically, the PO depot / international hub has a Customs department, staffed by Revenue Service / Customs. If you use post services instead of courier, they will calculate the import duty and you pay when you collect the parcel.

The arithmetic that Don Mega showed is wrong. The import duty is calculated on the value of the goods, not including the shipping cost. Then after the import duty is added, there may be VAT.

with my experience non-courier services (normal post) a lot of the times the parcels simply come in under the radar, occasionally I do get stung for import taxes and duties but that is rare.

Same in SA. But if it's labeled as Clothing [or whatever - computer components or whatever] the import duty will be applied.

It is calculated on the "Landed Costs" which include shipping and any other costs. So you pay import duty and VAT on the shipping costs.

On the express clearing (which is the mostly used) you pay import duty of everything in the shipment of the good with the highest rate.

So if everything is 0 import duty and there is one part worth 1 Cent which has 30% import duty than you pay 30% for all the shipment.

[arthurwait]

Foreign companies taxes are much higher scruntinized than Thai companies.

Yes I've had to pay import taxes like this several times with the post office, but sometimes not. They simply don't check everything.

Best to ship in a Thai name and small packages.

The taxes you have been asked for are correct. No scam.

[Traveling Sailor]

$180(product) + $60(shipping)= $240.

$240 + 30% import tax = $312.

$312 + 7% vat = $333.84

$333.84 - $240 = $93.84

$93.84 total import taxes to be paid.

Where is the hostage situation, Or did you believe you could import stuff into Thailand and completely avoid all import taxes and duties ?

I agree. USPS sent, via Priority mail, approx $400 worth of suppliments at a cost of $62.40. I had to pay 30% import tax of 5,304 baht. And, I was told that if I do not get an import liscense, next time I will not be able to receive my package. This warning from the Samui Customs House.

[TobiasML]

All courier companies need to do customs clearance as they are required by customs department to do so. Same for all logistic companies. The postal system, as far as I know, only needs to do customs clearance from a certain amount upon and are not required to do so for all shipments. Therefore most low cost items can go through without customs clearance.

[Ulic]

Do not use a courier, use the countries postal service.

[kwestroc]

I wonder why is USPS or other government courier services are never in this sort of situation ? Anybody had a bad experience with those also ?

I had a similar situation with USPS. A family member shipped some clothes over via USPS. Usually takes two weeks to arrive. I’m waiting and waiting and finally check the status. It’s at customs. I called and after a few hours or trying to get heads or tails of where it is, they tell me to go to my local post office and that I need to pay import for it. It was only about 15$ but still, first time ever it’s happened to me in nearly 6 years of being here.

[timsharkythailand]

Usually the solution is to not only read but try to understand what is written all over the Internet and on this forum especially...

[timsharkythailand]

All courier companies need to do customs clearance as they are required by customs department to do so. Same for all logistic companies. The postal system, as far as I know, only needs to do customs clearance from a certain amount upon and are not required to do so for all shipments. Therefore most low cost items can go through without customs clearance.

Exactly !

But it seems hard for the people to understand that the only reason why courier companies are allowed to ship faster is that they work for free on behalf of customs.

[timsharkythailand]

I have a question, does anybody know why we can send liquid from USA to Thailand but cannot send liquid from Thailand to any country ? Thanks.

[rotary]

As another poster stated only use USPS if shipment coming from USA. From DHL, UPS, FEDEX and the others like them you will receive stupid bills. Avoid them like the plague.

[Don Mega]

I have a question, does anybody know why we can send liquid from USA to Thailand but cannot send liquid from Thailand to any country ? Thanks.

You can send liquids from Thailand, just not via Thai Post.

[timsharkythailand]

I have a question, does anybody know why we can send liquid from USA to Thailand but cannot send liquid from Thailand to any country ? Thanks.

You can send liquids from Thailand, just not via Thai Post.

So if not Thai post, how to do please ?

And is it possible only for shampoo or also a small bottle of Sangsom rum ? (without saying what is in the box, of course !)

[Don Mega]

Have you hit a wall sending liquid steroids to OZ timsharkythailand ?

[ResandePohm]

A solicitor friend had exactly the same issue with UPS importing a small item into the UK. The delivery guy came to him but refused to leave the item before he had received payment. He too asked what the charge was for and was told customs duty. My friend asked to see the custom charge paperwork. Turned out it was just an estimate done by UPS and they had no back up paperwork from customs. Being a solicitor my friend told the delivery guy sorry but i dont have any cash but could give him a cheque. The delivery guy accepted this and left the item and went away with the cheque whereupon my friend then rings his bank and cancels the cheque.

Only way to deal with their scam

[rahul213]

A solicitor friend had exactly the same issue with UPS importing a small item into the UK. The delivery guy came to him but refused to leave the item before he had received payment. He too asked what the charge was for and was told customs duty. My friend asked to see the custom charge paperwork. Turned out it was just an estimate done by UPS and they had no back up paperwork from customs. Being a solicitor my friend told the delivery guy sorry but i dont have any cash but could give him a cheque. The delivery guy accepted this and left the item and went away with the cheque whereupon my friend then rings his bank and cancels the cheque.

Only way to deal with their scam

Yeah surely.But not here I guess cause the person delivering could barely speak English. All he could was "money" and the ransom amount.I haven't received my shipment yet will get it most likely after this Songkran break now.

[poweratradio]

Yes, and I told them to abandon the shipment. Maybe the wrong decision, but there was some principle involved

UPS has always charged for clearing customs and paying brokerage fees has always been that of the customer including taxes paid by UPS on the customers behalf. If the seller does the UPS booking and ships the Package Standard class. All fees go to the customer receiving. If the seller had shipped it Express class or higher the brokerage fees would have waived. Point to note... Brokerage fees begin at $25.dollars for a border hop N.America to over $50 for Int'l.

Should of paid the fees and got your package but having sent back refused may make it very difficult to get your money back even with a guaranteed Visa used. Need an RMA #

[poweratradio]

$180(product) + $60(shipping)= $240.

$240 + 30% import tax = $312.

$312 + 7% vat = $333.84

$333.84 - $240 = $93.84

$93.84 total import taxes to be paid.

Where is the hostage situation, Or did you believe you could import stuff into Thailand and completely avoid all import taxes and duties ?

Excellent post.

[poweratradio]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You're American right? You hardly know what tax is.

So Thailand has high import tax on clothing. So does India, so does South Africa, so does Brazil. The idea is to protect the local industry. Probably 40%, by the sound of it. UPS will add handling/customs fees.

The arithmetic

<< That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again. >>

it depends on the country. Typically, the PO depot / international hub has a Customs department, staffed by Revenue Service / Customs. If you use post services instead of courier, they will calculate the import duty and you pay when you collect the parcel.

The arithmetic that Don Mega showed is wrong. The import duty is calculated on the value of the goods, not including the shipping cost. Then after the import duty is added, there may be VAT.

So the quoted fee should be less than Don Mega's calculation ?

Just wait for the 2nd visit for heavens sake and get the tally then. Now go to your room and wait for the 2nd delivery attempt like a good child.