10 Million safe in Thailand?

[thelongshoot]

Hi there. I live in Thailand, have done for 12 years. Business has been great over the last 5 or 6 years and my nest egg has been growing to the point where I now have just under 10,000,000 saved in my Thai bank account. With all the stories you here of fraud, card skimming etc i am starting to worry if my money is totally safe here in a Thai bank. Based on experience of being a ferang in this rather unfair country, i have images in my mind of some half whit bank manager saying to me "sorry mr, can not help" should my account ever somehow get raided.

Or am i worrying about nothing here?

I have two bank accounts with Kasikorn. Maybe I should open a couple of other accounts with say, Bangkok Bank, SCB etc... spread the money around a little so eggs not in one basket?

Ideally i would like an off shore account with someone like HSBC but the application process did not seem great. For example they would need evidence of a permanent address here in Thailand with my name on utility bills. I don't have that - I have always rented and the bills are all in the GF's name, in Thai. I am English, but have no account back home and it would not be that easy to open one. I also risk the chance of the tax man and various other authorities trying to get there hands on my money, which was all earned in the U.S. (remotely, on line from Thailand) I currently have around 25,000 GBP in Premium Bonds back home and that's about as much as I would like to keep exposed back there. But I digress.

Any alternatives available as a ferang? Equivalent to Premium Bonds here in Thailand? Anywhere a little 'safer' to keep this kind of money?

Appreciate any feedback or advice, thank you

TLS

[rayongchelsea]

Open a couple of separate fixed savings account. No ATM access. With a bank that knows you personally, should be safe enough. Access through a bank book only.you are the only signature. It's worked for me over the years..not an investment strategy but its how I manage my cash. Transfer to savings account with ATM when needed. Otherwise learn about stocks, bonds efts etc..well done to have accumulated a fair sum, when many say it can't be done..I would invest the money personally if not needed..open a brokerage account.

[thelongshoot]

Thanks Rayongchelsea. Thats definiatley a great idea. The brokerage suggestion just isnt me though - i have never even so much as played around with stocks/shares etc. Thats what you mean by brokerage account, yup?

[thrilled]

Have you heard the saying,Don't put all your eggs in one basket.In other words maybe have 4-7 different banks etc.

Oh while we're talking I have A business proposition for ya. NOT.

I wouldn't invest money in Thailand.Good luck to ya.

[Baerboxer]

If you don't want to invest in stocks, shares, bonds, etc but keep in a bank, then I'd recommend looking at term investment accounts. Although the bank rate was lowered recently it's still much better than you'd get from offshore or UK banks like HSBC.

Have a look at Krungsri. There internet banking is good, some good products and very helpful. You have enough to qualify as a premier customer if you wish. I keep money in 2 savings accounts, and have a separate joint account with my wife. Only have atm card for joint account and transfer minimal amounts as required. They also have a good credit card. Krungsri are 77% owned by a Japanese banking group.

I also have a GBP and USD account there which makes transferring money into Thailand easy and I can then change to ThB when rate beneficial.

My best Thai friends use the Kasikorn equivalent but that's due to family connections. My wife also uses Bangkok Bank and has never had any issues,

Hope that helps.

[Orac]

I opened an offshore account with Standard Bank in Isle of Man a couple of years ago under my Thai address using a Cert of Residence (translated) from immigration and a copy of my passport which i had notarised by a Thai lawyer.

[Gsxrnz]

Since you're only asking about the safety/security aspect of holding your wealth, the simple answer as already given is to have accounts that are not accessible by an ATM.

But seriously, holding that sort of money in a low yielding TD or worse, a non interest bearing account is the same as throwing money away. The minimal returns will not even match local inflation. In effect your wealth is depreciating. You may not be concerned too much as you're still earning and your positive cash flow and increasing wealth somewhat minimises the visibility of this depreciation. But arguably that lost income is in the region of half a million to a million baht per annum - not an amount to be sneezed at.

You need to consider the fact that your wealth will increase over time (assuming you carry on what you're doing), but one day that income stream may diminish/reduce. Or you may want to cease working or be forced to consider other less lucrative alternatives.And one day the revenue from your investments may well be your sole source of income.

My point being that you should start to investigate alternative forms of investment now to augment your present income while learning about those forms of investment. I'd hate to have your problem in say 10 years time when you may have 30 Million in the bank and only earning a few per cent interest in a TD.

Look at alternatives now and give yourself a chance to learn. Never bet the farm on any one investment. Spread your risk, but at the same time take some risks. You'll make a few mistakes, you may lose a few baht but you'll make it up in other areas.

Depending on your taste for risk, there are dozens of instruments to invest in - some speculative, some rock solid. Anything from gold or currency, to oil futures and bitcoin. Balance your exposure to currencies and economies at the same time. My core strategy is positive cashflow from investments - by that I mean that the gain in value is often (but not always) secondary in importance to the cashflow that can be derived from the investment.

Cheers and good luck.

Do some research about investment strategies, it's not rocket science. You have a sizable chunk of available cash and it would be a shame to see it lose real value over time.

[worgeordie]

Less safe now you have let all of TV and through that the rest of

the world you have 10M in cash.the maximin protected by the Govt is 1 M.in case of crash

regards worgeordie

[rwdrwdrwd]

I opened an offshore account when renting, for address proof all I needed was one bill in my name - pretty easy to change your girlfriends name on an internet bill, for example.

This was the list I had to provide (Citibank IPB Singapore):

• Copy of passport photo page and signature page
• Copy of current entry stamp for country you are in
• A valid national ID, driver license or credit card copy (I used a UK card registered to a UK address)
• Mailing Address proof – This may be your latest utility bills or latest bank statement with your name displayed in full. (I used a TOT bill)
• Account Opening Form and W-8 Form
  

Nothing was notarised.

It wasn't hard to sort out at all - took about a month from application to receipt of full account with online access, cards etc. I also got brokerage services (though once I had the Citibank account, I was able to use that open a brokerage account with Interactive Brokers, which is much cheaper)

This is much safer for the income you describe, since Singapore does not tax non resident offshore income, Thailand does not tax income that is not remitted to Thailand in the year earned (sounds like your prior earnings have been paid to Thailand, and therefore are subject to Thai tax). The UK has no claim to income you earn from the US if you are not resident in the UK.

[ThaiPauly]

Avoid HSBC anyway, their interest rates suck big time

[Anthony5]

I opened an offshore account when renting, for address proof all I needed was one bill in my name - pretty easy to change your girlfriends name on an internet bill, for example.

This was the list I had to provide (Citibank IPB Singapore):

• Copy of passport photo page and signature page
• Copy of current entry stamp for country you are in
• A valid national ID, driver license or credit card copy (I used a UK card registered to a UK address)
• Mailing Address proof – This may be your latest utility bills or latest bank statement with your name displayed in full. (I used a TOT bill)
• Account Opening Form and W-8 Form

Nothing was notarised.

It wasn't hard to sort out at all - took about a month from application to receipt of full account with online access, cards etc. I also got brokerage services (though once I had the Citibank account, I was able to use that open a brokerage account with Interactive Brokers, which is much cheaper)

This is much safer for the income you describe, since Singapore does not tax non resident offshore income, Thailand does not tax income that is not remitted to Thailand in the year earned (sounds like your prior earnings have been paid to Thailand, and therefore are subject to Thai tax). The UK has no claim to income you earn from the US if you are not resident in the UK.

Looks like Citibank IPB Singapore is a bit more demanding lately. This is the mail I received from them just a few weeks ago, after I inquired to open a USD account and send money from my account in my home country.

As discussed, we will need to establish how you had derived your wealth prior to your retirement in Thailand more than 20 years ago.

As a business owner (prior to your retirement), I need the basic information below:

Name of company:

Position held:

When was it established?

Physical address of the company:

No. of shareholders (client(s) inclusive):

No. of employees:

Description of business operations:

Estimated annual sales turnover (USD):

Personal Net income (USD):

Company website (if any):

When did you sell your business and for how much?:

[thelongshoot]

If you don't want to invest in stocks, shares, bonds, etc but keep in a bank, then I'd recommend looking at term investment accounts. Although the bank rate was lowered recently it's still much better than you'd get from offshore or UK banks like HSBC.

Have a look at Krungsri. There internet banking is good, some good products and very helpful. You have enough to qualify as a premier customer if you wish. I keep money in 2 savings accounts, and have a separate joint account with my wife. Only have atm card for joint account and transfer minimal amounts as required. They also have a good credit card. Krungsri are 77% owned by a Japanese banking group.

I also have a GBP and USD account there which makes transferring money into Thailand easy and I can then change to ThB when rate beneficial.

My best Thai friends use the Kasikorn equivalent but that's due to family connections. My wife also uses Bangkok Bank and has never had any issues,

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, boxer. As far as I was aware, I am not eligable for interest in a Thai bank owing to my status here - in all the years I have lived here i have bounced between non b and tourist visas. I am currently on a tourist visa. I do not receive interest right now with my savings account, for example. Maybe some sort of official residency with the correct visa would be required for savings interest? I will look into it though, thanks.

[thelongshoot]

I opened an offshore account with Standard Bank in Isle of Man a couple of years ago under my Thai address using a Cert of Residence (translated) from immigration and a copy of my passport which i had notarised by a Thai lawyer.

Thanks for that info Orac. Can I just ask, you obviously applied and got the opened the account remotley, without going back to IOM? Total stating the obvious there and probably a daft question but I just wanted to check! It sounds pretty easy - I will check that out. Thanks.

[thelongshoot]

I opened an offshore account when renting, for address proof all I needed was one bill in my name - pretty easy to change your girlfriends name on an internet bill, for example.

This was the list I had to provide (Citibank IPB Singapore):

• Copy of passport photo page and signature page
• Copy of current entry stamp for country you are in
• A valid national ID, driver license or credit card copy (I used a UK card registered to a UK address)
• Mailing Address proof – This may be your latest utility bills or latest bank statement with your name displayed in full. (I used a TOT bill)
• Account Opening Form and W-8 Form

Nothing was notarised.

It wasn't hard to sort out at all - took about a month from application to receipt of full account with online access, cards etc. I also got brokerage services (though once I had the Citibank account, I was able to use that open a brokerage account with Interactive Brokers, which is much cheaper)

This is much safer for the income you describe, since Singapore does not tax non resident offshore income, Thailand does not tax income that is not remitted to Thailand in the year earned (sounds like your prior earnings have been paid to Thailand, and therefore are subject to Thai tax). The UK has no claim to income you earn from the US if you are not resident in the UK.

I could do all of that for sure.... This is the best option yet. I like the Isle of Man suggestion but with this bank being in Singapore it helps, as it is only a hop away. I know that makes little difference practically but i just prefer the idea of being 'closer' to the country the money sits in. I will definitaley look into that - i have the page open right now. Thanks.

[thelongshoot]

Since you're only asking about the safety/security aspect of holding your wealth, the simple answer as already given is to have accounts that are not accessible by an ATM.

But seriously, holding that sort of money in a low yielding TD or worse, a non interest bearing account is the same as throwing money away. The minimal returns will not even match local inflation. In effect your wealth is depreciating. You may not be concerned too much as you're still earning and your positive cash flow and increasing wealth somewhat minimises the visibility of this depreciation. But arguably that lost income is in the region of half a million to a million baht per annum - not an amount to be sneezed at.

You need to consider the fact that your wealth will increase over time (assuming you carry on what you're doing), but one day that income stream may diminish/reduce. Or you may want to cease working or be forced to consider other less lucrative alternatives.And one day the revenue from your investments may well be your sole source of income.

My point being that you should start to investigate alternative forms of investment now to augment your present income while learning about those forms of investment. I'd hate to have your problem in say 10 years time when you may have 30 Million in the bank and only earning a few per cent interest in a TD.

Look at alternatives now and give yourself a chance to learn. Never bet the farm on any one investment. Spread your risk, but at the same time take some risks. You'll make a few mistakes, you may lose a few baht but you'll make it up in other areas.

Depending on your taste for risk, there are dozens of instruments to invest in - some speculative, some rock solid. Anything from gold or currency, to oil futures and bitcoin. Balance your exposure to currencies and economies at the same time. My core strategy is positive cashflow from investments - by that I mean that the gain in value is often (but not always) secondary in importance to the cashflow that can be derived from the investment.

Cheers and good luck.

Do some research about investment strategies, it's not rocket science. You have a sizable chunk of available cash and it would be a shame to see it lose real value over time.

Some great advice there and I appreciate it, thanks. You are right - i need to start managing money as aposed to just tucking it away. Also the industry I am in is antiquated (its tech related) and has a limited shelf life, another few years maybe. I am working as hard as i can while the going is good, before it all ends, and make as much money as I can. Key to this is learning the ropes in basic managment and investment as you suggested, so that hopefully i can get the money working while i focus on other albiet smaller evenue streams to keep me ticking over. I guess the honest answer is i have been lazy, putting all of this off.... I need to get my arse in gear and get my ehad around it all though, for sure.

Thanks again for this advice, i will start researching it right away.

[gk10002000]

I would suggest open a Charles Schwaub account, both as a broker and as a bank. It gives you international access and the funds are outside of Thailand and you can start depositing/transferring money into there at your leisure.

[gemguy]

Open an account in Hong Kong and keep most of the money there....if the Thai banks worry you that much

[Johnnie99]

Just as safe as my 100 000 000.

[MaeJoMTB]

I opened an offshore account with Standard Bank in Isle of Man a couple of years ago under my Thai address using a Cert of Residence (translated) from immigration and a copy of my passport which i had notarised by a Thai lawyer.

IoM, where all the scammers operate, not regulated by the UK finance laws.

Of course they'll take your money, getting it back is the problem.

Great Idea.

Post two gave the answer, spread between several Thai banks, access in person with bank book only.

Edited April 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[godden]

Post is total nonsense.

[ezzra]

As long as they're NOT under your wife/gf name... you're safe....

[khunPer]

For the matter of safety with Thai banks, the guarantee is quite high at the moment, but should fall to 1 million baht next year or so...

Spreading to a number of fixed accounts in a couple of well-renewed banks is a possibility – often you can have a fairly high bank interest on agreed terms, like 2,5 to 3 % p.a.

A bank account with no ATM-card should not be exploited to fraud.

Another option is Fund Books, which can be in either bonds or equity – can be accumulating or dividend paying, when equity – that’s mutual fund, and most banks offers them. Low risk bonds give normally slightly higher interest than fixed bank deposits, but there is no 15 percent withholding tax. Some bonds with slightly higher risk, like company bonds, can accumulate up around 4 % p.a.

I have used Fund Books for my Thai savings, both bonds and equity, and so far that have performed well over the past 8-9 years. I use a mix from Bangkok Bank, SCB and Kasikorn (K-Bank), the latter seem to have the best English information, which you can find here:

http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/Pages/Disclaimer.aspx?Source=http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/MutualFund/ProductsFundFacts/Pages/Default.aspx

[stenor]

Hi, You haven't any problems with opening an offshore account. It's relatively easy. If you need more information please send me an e-mail to [email protected]

[chiang mai]

Less safe now you have let all of TV and through that the rest of

the world you have 10M in cash.the maximin protected by the Govt is 1 M.in case of crash

regards worgeordie

Currently THB 50 mill, not THB 1 mill.

http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN

Edited April 15, 2015 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

I have a similar amount spread across UOB (Singapore), CIMB (Malaysia) and BAY (Bank of Tokyo)

[thurien]

@KhunPer:

now, if I have an ATM card and always strictly keep that at home?

[akentryan]

If you are not a sophisticated investor avoid the stock market (I worked for a Thai brokerage house for a couple of years before the collapse and the crap they did was unbelievable). Fixed deposits and spread it around. Last October I had everything set up at Krung Thai Bank at 4% for 5 years in my wife's name (I am 76 she was 57) but she passed away Jan 2. I now have money in Kasiikorn, Bangkok Bank, OUB, SCB and Krung Thai. The current fixed rate is a paltry 2.3% to 2.5% with not much hope of a substantial increase. Keep in mind that if you walk in with 10 milllion they can give you a little better rate that the rate advertised - size does matter. Don't forget that they will deduct 15% in income tax but the Revenue Department is very helpful with filing your Thai Tax return. We received a refund of about 70K for 2014 which is found money.as far as I am concerned.I would avoid the smaller newer banks like Land & Houses, Tanachart, Tisco, etc as a couple of these are old brokerage houses meaning the same people are at the top. .

[smotherb]

Thanks Rayongchelsea. Thats definiatley a great idea. The brokerage suggestion just isnt me though - i have never even so much as played around with stocks/shares etc. Thats what you mean by brokerage account, yup?

you can always go to a reputable brokerage firm and invest in mutual funds--do a little research, there are plenty of reputable and accountable firms out there, but most will report to your home country

[MaeJoMTB]

@KhunPer: now, if I have an ATM card and always strictly keep that at home?

The bank will claim you used it to take the money out, no evidence required.

If the only access is at the bank in person with ID, they would need the dated copy of your ID and the transaction recorded in your bank book to prove you took the money out.

[bangkapi]

I think your money is safer spread around bank accounts in Thailand than in the USA or Europe.

Bail-ins are coming in the near future.... You are probably less likely to get Cyprused in Thailand than in the West.