Lack or compassion or just different social values?

[Cam Khao]

Every time I think I am finally, after all these years, beginning to understand Thainess, something always comes along to prove otherwise.

This is not a *let's criticize Thai people" thread, things are different here, and I have learned to accept this. However, I am currently witnessing something that has really shocked me this time, and made me realize just how much I still don't get about this culture.

My Sister in law has just had a baby two days ago. My wife is doing the 'take care' duty at the hospital, as the husband has to work in BKK (we are in Surin).

OK, nothing very odd here, not everyone can make it to the birth of their baby.

There was a problem with the birth though, and the baby's heart stopped for several minutes longer than the threshold for causing brain damage. In all likeliness the poor little thing won't survive, its been on life support since it was born.

Yet still the father says he is too busy working to come and take care of his wife who is distraught, and see his new born Son, for possibly the only time. In my mind, there can be nothing more important than this for him right now, even if it means walking out on his job because they won't let him take time off. I know this is what I would do in that situation, some things are simply more important than anything else.

And then there is something my wife said yesterday. She said how much bad luck this is for her sister, as if the baby dies she now has a scar from the birth for nothing. I mean ? Is that even important? What about how much bad luck this is for her sister full stop?

A have long suspected that life here, at least out here in deepest darkest Isan, is not valued very highly, and after seeing this fiasco, I am beginning to think I am right.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Lite Beer

[Brit_Doggie]

A son you say sad fact but true no earning potential to take care of ageing parents.

[robblok]

First of don't judge the husband, he is thinking long term. Maybe he has a good job and worries what will happen if he quits. This is not Europe where you can have unemployment benefits. Who knows how little money he has saved. I too would go for long term and would not sacrifice my future for this. Call me insensitive but I prefer to keep food on the table long term over comforting now.

Sure in an ideal world I would want both.. but if I had to choose...

[robblok]

A son you say sad fact but true no earning potential to take care of ageing parents.

crazy.. plenty of guys supporting their mother too. Not in "certain" families of course but normally sure why not.

[NancyL]

This isn't a "Thainess" attitude but one related to lack of job security and the economic/educational background of the people involved. I think a similar situation would play out in many countries where the father held a job he couldn't leave without being fired and the mother was surrounded by a strong family support group. The father knows his wife has people around her. She won't be alone. There is little he could do at this time. His coming won't change the situation and will only make their future worse.

And yes, it is sad that the mother "has a scar" from the event. She'll have to have a C-section for all future births, making them more difficult. Her health and that of future children will be compromised.

[ezzra]

Thai family values and structure is a concept that largely lost on us farangs, many things

that make perfect sense to them are alien to us, and commonsense and accountability for

one action are some of the others, so it's best to leave it alone, coz you' will never be able

to grasp the Thai method or reasoning of their thinking....

[Crazy chef 1]

Hope the little one will make it...

[Alwyn]

call it Thainess if you like, I've heard far more appalling amd eyebrow raising stories unfortunately. My mate went to his missus family in BKK (they live on Samui). He'd been with his missus for years but had never met her family. So they arrive and the mum starts yapping away to his missus and his missus goes all quiet and is obviously upset. It turns out she had a kid that stayed with the family (a daughter) and the mum was telling my mate's missus her daughter had died. From what my mate could learn it was something to do with boiling water. They hadn't thought to tell her.. But this is where it gets particularly sad, the kid had died some 3 months earlier. I don't think it's "Thainess" it's their belief system which is different from ours. Doesn't mean one is right or one is wrong, it's their belief system and it's just not like ours. Thais don't think it's okay to lie but it's better to lie than lose face, for example. It is what it is.

[arminbkk]

I'd rather think the boss is insensitive (assuming his boss knows and does not let him leave).

The OP (the story, not the poster) does not tell everything. The guy could be crying his eyes out when alone in his room in Bangkok.

But yes if he would really lose his job, long term thinking is best.

[Kaalle]

I would rather like to think that death doesn't hold the same stigma as in the west. There is death and there is rebirth and no need for the world to end for the people involved because a life is lost.

[Cam Khao]

I'd rather think the boss is insensitive (assuming his boss knows and does not let him leave).

The OP (the story, not the poster) does not tell everything. The guy could be crying his eyes out when alone in his room in Bangkok.

But yes if he would really lose his job, long term thinking is best.

he has not even asked for time off work, he has just said he has to work so he is not coming.

[benalibina]

As many on here write......thais are people similar to "us".......lack of compassion is my bet.

[jschorr]

I have been married to my Thai wife for 13 years and I'm a part of her extended family. Over the years I have occasionally had difficulty dealing with what I initially took to be a lack of compassion on the Thai side of my family. I have now come to believe it is not about compassion, but about a very different world view, very much influenced by the teachings of Thai Buddhism and often the powerlessness of relatively poor Thai families. Acceptance, fatalism, and a belief in karma are a part of many/most Thais' world view. We Westerners are much more likely to feel obligated to try to fix / address problems and to feel that we have failed if the problem persists. In my experience Thais tend to accept the outcomes of life's problems no matter how tragic and move on. I have come to see the wisdom in this approach to life, even if I can't fully adopt it.

[benalibina]

I have been married to my Thai wife for 13 years and I'm a part of her extended family. Over the years I have occasionally had difficulty dealing with what I initially took to be a lack of compassion on the Thai side of my family. I have now come to believe it is not about compassion, but about a very different world view, very much influenced by the teachings of Thai Buddhism and often the powerlessness of relatively poor Thai families. Acceptance, fatalism, and a belief in karma are a part of many/most Thais' world view. We Westerners are much more likely to feel obligated to try to fix / address problems and to feel that we have failed if the problem persists. In my experience Thais tend to accept the outcomes of life's problems no matter how tragic and move on. I have come to see the wisdom in this approach to life, even if I can't fully adopt it.

On your last 2 sentences.......no matter the consequences....who gets hurt on the way.....yeah ....great....what a wisdom.

[gemguy]

This would be considered a isolated case and not commom.....as in..... not part of Thai culture per say.

Cheers

[ggt]

You are obviously a caring and sensitive person...

I live in a country that holds itself up to the world as the standard in human rights and achievements...yet babies are dismembered in the womb of the mother because it would be inconvenient to carry the child to full term...the lives of an estimated 60 million Americans have perished at the hands of butchers...

I often wonder how many extraordinary leaders, scientists, artists, authors, athletes, educators were never given a chance to make their mark on the world...

Edited April 12, 2015 by ggt

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

there is no thing as Thaines or Farangnes, it is just how much an <deleted> you can afford to be

[gandalf12]

I had a similar thing a few years ago. I had to make a choice between going back to the UK for my fathers funeral and lose my job or dont go and have a job. Since I had a family who depended on me I did what my father would have said. He would have sad "You cant do anything here and you have a family t support so dont be bloody stupid stick with the job".

I did exactly that. My brother never forgave me and we have since agreed never to contact each other. It was a choice I had to make and I stand by it to this day

[benalibina]

I had a similar thing a few years ago. I had to make a choice between going back to the UK for my fathers funeral and lose my job or dont go and have a job. Since I had a family who depended on me I did what my father would have said. He would have sad "You cant do anything here and you have a family t support so dont be bloody stupid stick with the job".

I did exactly that. My brother never forgave me and we have since agreed never to contact each other. It was a choice I had to make and I stand by it to this day

Can only conclude that it speaks volumes about your employer at the time. Hopefully you are not working there anymore. If you still are working for same company......... Edited April 12, 2015 by benalibina

[teebe]

If it was a song theme was ok, but if you notice a matter of facts then there is a decision standing.

Take it or leave it.

Only hard hearted foreigners can grasp rural-poor life, the choice is up to you (as also Thais say to foreigners).

Life in LOS is tough for westerns/christian and even when you love so much your mate a foldback tought remain, remained, you are servicing an invisible power who requests to all that is alive to be in support, a mass slavery. Call it religion or other, like a dream steaming out of the country land, a sort of dark landscape (common in tropical countries).

No place for faint hearts.

[thedude82]

sounds like its time to go home

[Junkyarddog]

My best friend in Thailand called this the 95% factor. He lived full time in Thailand for 45 years before he died last year. He always said that about the time you think you have 95% of Thailand figured out, they will do something that knocks you back to zero. I have been here 30 years myself and i still stay confused about many matters.

[MaeJoMTB]

Thai culture,

Me, me, me, me, ME!

Not that hard to understand really.

[Broeno]

This isn't a "Thainess" attitude but one related to lack of job security and the economic/educational background of the people involved. I think a similar situation would play out in many countries where the father held a job he couldn't leave without being fired and the mother was surrounded by a strong family support group. The father knows his wife has people around her. She won't be alone. There is little he could do at this time. His coming won't change the situation and will only make their future worse.

And yes, it is sad that the mother "has a scar" from the event. She'll have to have a C-section for all future births, making them more difficult. Her health and that of future children will be compromised.

Little he can do?

Ever heard of mental support?

[Enoon]

Maybe you should find out a bit more about the pay rates, conditions of employment/treatment by employers and the extended loss of family contact that results

from being a typical "migrant" worker from Isaan. I'm assuming that is the status of the person concerned. If they're the wokaholic boss of a design agency then it's a different matter.

For instance, he may have to pay, pay not just lose, at least a days wages for every day he is absent. He may not get paid for the work he has already done in that month.

Are you going to support his family while he's out of work if he get's the "tin-tack"?

Edited April 12, 2015 by Enoon

[Songlaw]

I have been married to my Thai wife for 13 years and I'm a part of her extended family. Over the years I have occasionally had difficulty dealing with what I initially took to be a lack of compassion on the Thai side of my family. I have now come to believe it is not about compassion, but about a very different world view, very much influenced by the teachings of Thai Buddhism and often the powerlessness of relatively poor Thai families. Acceptance, fatalism, and a belief in karma are a part of many/most Thais' world view. We Westerners are much more likely to feel obligated to try to fix / address problems and to feel that we have failed if the problem persists. In my experience Thais tend to accept the outcomes of life's problems no matter how tragic and move on. I have come to see the wisdom in this approach to life, even if I can't fully adopt it.

Well, if there is one voice of reason, there surely must be others. Couldn't have stated it any better. Mercifully, now I won't even have to try. Long may you run, jschorr.

[teebe]

#22,23

Maybe the place is more important than ever, similar lifestyle are in Mexico, Brazil, Angola, Mozambique someone might call it fatalism but not me, is a sickness from environment to which natives have found a self defence and results different from the achievement of the west. Of course neighbours like Indinesia, Singapore, Malesya can have another idea but they have money, the big plaster, to play a role. But a tour in the country will tell you, where wealth is missing, how is lifestyle. In LOS the Sun run 1/3 of the path in the opposite emisphere, the shadow makes a turn of 180 and the light unmask the dark side. Hard to grasp for who has the shade fixed in one place.

[dunque]

A tragic story with the words 'Thai' inserted in it as often as possible to provide more thai bashing.

and that's all this is !! unless of course you're suggesting there are countries on this planet where heartlessness doesn't exist ?

Only what you will find in Thailand is children who generally have complete respect for their parents, which is something you will find very thin on the ground in the UK

Carry on bashing .................

Exactly - a prime example of having a preconception and validating it with anecdotes - confirmation bias indeed.

Edited April 12, 2015 by dunque

[Petchou]

Change your sunglasses and perspective on things. The way things are done back home in your country or culture are not absolute truth or universal standard. I am quite sure, any farang will learn from Thai culture if people stop scratching the surface and deepen their look at things.

[teebe]

In agreement with Petchou, for unknown reasons, there is always a teacher who emphasizes the Thais using concepts available in their country. Apart from that even in their country is all clear and direct, this schematic provision erases every opportunity to further understand the difference.
Namely, there is no translation of the word empathy, the closest is the 'mercy'.
Affection is translated as 'I like' or 'love', in this way it is easy to see that West and East are not only geo-tags, perhaps are places of the soul.
For businesses, of course, both parties forget all interior reasons, same old history?

Edited April 12, 2015 by teebe