Israeli researchers say attacks against Jews spiked in 2014

[Jingthing]

Hyper anti-sensitive ... is that a thing?

Anyway ... whatever it is, I would not feel safe and comfortable riding the baht buses of Pattaya wearing a kippah and Star of David. I definitely think going into an Arab or Iranian space in Thailand like that would be directly asking for trouble.

Anyone want to try it and see if my assumptions are correct? I wouldn't try it. Why would it be different here with so many Europeans and non-Israeli Middle Easterners than it is in Europe for visible Jews to walk around (where it has been shown that abuse is predictable)?

Yet I see people here wearing Christian crosses and Muslim dress quite often and looking quite confident and comfortable ... never witnessed even a hint of abuse towards them here.

Obviously, I don't know. I haven't tried it. I wouldn't try it as it's not something I would normally do (wear a Kippah) though frankly I wouldn't mind wearing a Star of David ... but I really don't think it would be safe here.

If you think I'm wrong, I may be, I invite you to try it for a day or so and report back. I would be happy to hear a report of no issues but I wouldn't expect it ... again not with so many Europeans and Middle Easterners here, not to mention the odd Malaysian.

I will clearly say here this is not a big problem for me personally. While I might LIKE to wear a Star of David and I might be doing that now if I lived in Chicago it is not a problem for me NOT to wear it. I would never wear a kippah in public, here or anywhere. It would only be an issue for very visible Jews who feel obligated to wear kippahs everywhere, etc. So it's more of an academic question of what might be under the surface here, rather than any problem for me, which it really isn't.

I think it is similar in Europe. For very assimilated, non-visible Jews there usually aren't problems. For more visible Jews, there are now more problems.

Visible Jewish Israeli nationals in Thailand, that's another situation entirely as they're dealing with both actual hostility towards Israel and the Jewish thing.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Another perhaps related thing I find curious as I am a "foodie" is that I enjoy going to restaurants of many different nationalities. I've yet to see an Israeli (I can tell) in an Arabic or Iranian restaurant here and I've yet to see someone speaking Arabic or Parsi in an Israeli restaurant. Maybe it's just lack of curiosity or interest about the different foods, but I'm guessing there might be more to it than that.

I think your just fishing but....

Isn't that place across Butter Is Better in CM a Israeli type food place? Also one around the corner from there I forget the name

will try to remember on my next pass to look.

Also whats that place Sababa Israeli Restaurant or Jerusalem Falafel on Moon Muang?

His POINT was that you never find anyone speaking Arabic or Parsi in those places and he is correct. I eat in all of them from time to time. You are trying to change the subject.

[Jingthing]

My bigger point is that the general OP topic is about an increase of antisemitic attacks on Jews in the world and Thailand is in the world and there are some Jews in Thailand (mostly visiting but some resident). So I thought it might be interesting to explore that aspect of it.

I don't have a lot more to add to it from my personal experience as I "pass" as just another white guy on the streets of Thailand for the most part ... even though I have been aware based on my ethnic appearance that some Middle Eastern people (and others such as Russians) give me funny looks but without the Star, Kippah, or Hebrew accent they don't know for certain.

It may be that given Jews are such a tiny global minority that there are only a limited number of places in the world where Jewish identity isn't something unusual, Israel of course, parts of New York, etc.

Thailand is most definitely NOT one of those!

Edited April 18, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

French government taking action.

Good.

It's obviously needed.

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls on Friday pledged to finance a $107 million plan to fight racism and anti-Semitism.

The recent increase in prejudice in France is “insufferable,” he said at a press conference, announcing the plan.

“Racism, anti-Semitism, hatred of Muslims, of foreigners and homophobia are growing in an insufferable manner in our country,” Valls told reporters in Creteil, just outside Paris, after presenting his plan. Creteil was chosen because of an attack on a young couple in their home there five months ago, Radio France Internationale reported.

The attackers raped the woman and said that they believed the victims had money because they were Jewish.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.652353

[Pakboong]

Anti-Muslims acts have hit a record high in the first trimester of 2015, according to the head of the French National Observatory against Islamophobia.

: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/record-number-of-anti-muslim-acts-in-france/

[mania]

His POINT was that you never find anyone speaking Arabic or Parsi in those places and he is correct. I eat in all of them from time to time. You are trying to change the subject.

Granted looking back I did not explain it well

The gist of it is that folks eat everywhere regardless of political leanings

Which is why places like McDonalds are popular worldwide in spite of much dislike of the US

As for changing the subject that is a common practice of the "Israel can do no wrong cheerleaders"

which is why this post even appeared in the first place.....sympathy card

Look at the title of this topic & try to shoe horn in a claim that the antisemitic types never

eat at certain ethnic restaurants.....555 please

Simple truth is spike in 2014 is directly related to Israels actions in 2014...Same as it will be in 2015

Edited April 19, 2015 by mania

[Jingthing]

Some responses to some of this predictable noise:

-- The topics for this forum are chosen by the website. If there seems too many about Jews and Israel, you probably have a good point. But that comes from the website.

-- The topic here is not Islamophobia. That's obvious. See the OP.

-- I did intentionally introduce discussion of hostility towards Jews in Thailand because I thought that was on topic to a topic about hostility towards Jews in the world, and thought it might be of interest on this forum, Thaivisa. Many of us live in Thailand after all, and there are some Jews in Thailand. I have often wondered in Pattaya why people seem comfortable being visible Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc. yet my impression is that this is not a safe place for visible Jews to be out and about in the general public. Yes there are some SPACES for that here but I'm talking the general public like on baht buses. That seems messed up to me and I thought this specific topic might be a good place to discuss that. If you disagree, and think hostility towards Jews in Thailand is off topic to a thread about global attacks on Jews ... please use the report button and stop kvetching about it here. I continue to assert it is DEFINITELY very ON TOPIC.

-- Antisemitism has existed for thousands of years. The reasons are complex. I provided some background about that before. There are ups and downs. Right now there is indeed a spike. But Jew hatred is always there ... history shows us that. The comments on this forum show us that, even a recent one favoring genocide of Jews, and others just joking about it as if it was nothing.

-- Yes I think there is a good consensus that the Israeli conflict flareup has been a big factor in the more recent spike in global anti-semitism. But of course, it is very unfair to attack random Jews in the world who are not in control of Israeli government policy just because of opposition to Israeli government policy. A PROPER response to that would be political actions such as protests at Israeli embassies.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

His POINT was that you never find anyone speaking Arabic or Parsi in those places and he is correct. I eat in all of them from time to time. You are trying to change the subject.

Granted looking back I did not explain it well

The gist of it is that folks eat everywhere regardless of political leanings

Which is why places like McDonalds are popular worldwide in spite of much dislike of the US

As for changing the subject that is a common practice of the "Israel can do no wrong cheerleaders"

which is why this post even appeared in the first place.....sympathy card

Look at the title of this topic & try to shoe horn in a claim that the antisemitic types never

eat at certain ethnic restaurants.....555 please

Simple truth is spike in 2014 is directly related to Israels actions in 2014...Same as it will be in 2015

As much as it might surprise some, I disagree with this, there will always be those who have it in for someone of a different race, colour or creed; it is as irrational as it is offensive.

[Scott]

It would seem to me that the treatment of Jews in Thailand would be on-topic.

Personally, we have had a few Jews employed as teachers at our schools. Thus far none have been directly attacked, but the amount of discrimination has surprised me. We have had people complain that they did not want to share an office with one person because he was Jewish. There were no complaint initially because they did not know he was Jewish.

More recently we had a person come in and tell us that a teacher we have who is Jewish should not be allowed to teach at the school!

We also have had a number of Muslims who have worked for the school. In the case of Muslims, the Director does not like to hire them and if she thinks they are Muslim, they will not be hired. As far as treatment by other teachers, most seem to be a little less vocal about Muslims, but they are seldom included in social gatherings.

As a very general rule, I would say that the Thai staff know nothing about Judaism and thus Jews are subject to the same level of xenophobia as most Farangs. Most Thais do have stronger feelings about Muslims, probably because of the situation in the South.

[ggold]

Some responses to some of this predictable noise:

-- The topics for this forum are chosen by the website. If there seems too many about Jews and Israel, you probably have a good point. But that comes from the website.

-- The topic here is not Islamophobia. That's obvious. See the OP.

-- I did intentionally introduce discussion of hostility towards Jews in Thailand because I thought that was on topic to a topic about hostility towards Jews in the world, and thought it might be of interest on this forum, Thaivisa. Many of us live in Thailand after all, and there are some Jews in Thailand. I have often wondered in Pattaya why people seem comfortable being visible Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc. yet my impression is that this is not a safe place for visible Jews to be out and about in the general public. Yes there are some SPACES for that here but I'm talking the general public like on baht buses. That seems messed up to me and I thought this specific topic might be a good place to discuss that. If you disagree, and think hostility towards Jews in Thailand is off topic to a thread about global attacks on Jews ... please use the report button and stop kvetching about it here. I continue to assert it is DEFINITELY very ON TOPIC.

-- Antisemitism has existed for thousands of years. The reasons are complex. I provided some background about that before. There are ups and downs. Right now there is indeed a spike. But Jew hatred is always there ... history shows us that. The comments on this forum show us that, even a recent one favoring genocide of Jews, and others just joking about it as if it was nothing.

-- Yes I think there is a good consensus that the Israeli conflict flareup has been a big factor in the more recent spike in global anti-semitism. But of course, it is very unfair to attack random Jews in the world who are not in control of Israeli government policy just because of opposition to Israeli government policy. A PROPER response to that would be political actions such as protests at Israeli embassies.

I don't see Christians or Jews as being openly visible unless they are walking around with crucifixes, or stars of david. I think Muslims Hindus and Sikhs are far more visible.

Orthodox Jews who come to Thailand for the Chabad organisation, don't see Thailand as a hostile place to Jews, maybe in the more Muslim populated areas of Thailand it might be a problem.

Though there is a sizeable Christian population they are mostly Thai's and I don't see any discrimination. There is even tolerance for missionaries in Thailand. As of yet Thailand does't have any crazy monks stirring it up against any other faith groups!

However on a global basis.

I think the anti-Semitism that is visible is coming from two angles, First by the Muslim Diaspora of against Israel because of the Gaza situation, which has the support of the leftist's in these countries. They are happy to stir it up against the jews, because of Israel and racism. But with the Charlie Hebdo and supermarket incidents in Paris there has been a backlash against the Muslims.

The second angle is that good old fashioned Jew hating. In time of global recessions especially the type we have experienced over the last few years soon to be decade! the old story of the jews have all the money, it's the jews that control the banks etc etc. In times of hardship people look to someone to blame, and as history has shown the Jews are the ones who are the scapegoats for why people are poor or have no money.

I think the real interesting statistic to know would be the ethnicity of those perpetrating anti semitic attacks in all cases. I would bet the majority are carried out by Muslims! Just my opinion.

Edited April 19, 2015 by ggold

[Jingthing]

Wow.

That's pretty depressing.

Doesn't want to sit in the same room with a Jew.

Oy vey.

Jews in the world outside Israel and large Jewish communities are faced with "coming out" issues in similar ways to gay people as many can if they choose "pass" for being not Jewish.

When people don't know you're Jewish, obviously you won't see it, except when you hear antisemitic comments said because it was assumed no Jews were present.

There are of course both public and more private coming out issues.

Wearing a kippah on a baht bus is a very visible PUBLIC statement -- I am a Jew.

But in your personal/work life, are Jews supposed to hide that they are Jews to avoid problems? Some do I would think and that's sad.

It can easily come up in a casual conversation. White people are assumed to be Christian ... people might ask about that? Are Jews supposed to fake being Christian?

There is an organization that measures levels of antisemitism all over the world and although that can't be any kind of exact science, Thailand was included as having lower levels (among Thai people of course). That is my perception, generally, Thai people don't know about Jews, Israel, or care about them either way.

The lowest levels of antisemitism in the world was in Laos. Thailand was much higher than that.

But some Jews in Thailand are living in more international areas with not only Thais.

In Pattaya, it feels as if the non-Thais dominate the Thais.

So it is not only about the Thais.

To add, one would expect higher rates of antisemitism from Muslim Thais ... whether that's a PC statement or not, it seems obviously true.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[ggold]

Wow.

That's pretty depressing.

Doesn't want to sit in the same room with a Jew.

Oy vey.

Jews in the world outside Israel and large Jewish communities are faced with "coming out" issues in similar ways to gay people as many can if they choose "pass" for being not Jewish.

When people don't know you're Jewish, obviously you won't see it, except when you hear antisemitic comments said because it was assumed no Jews were present.

There are of course both public and more private coming out issues.

Wearing a kippah on a baht bus is a very visible PUBLIC statement -- I am a Jew.

But in your personal/work life, are Jews supposed to hide that they are Jews to avoid problems? Some do I would think and that's sad.

It can easily come up in a casual conversation. White people are assumed to be Christian ... people might ask about that? Are Jews supposed to fake being Christian?

There is an organization that measures levels of antisemitism all over the world and although that can't be any kind of exact science, Thailand was included as having lower levels (among Thai people of course). That is my perception, generally, Thai people don't know about Jews, Israel, or care about them either way.

The lowest levels of antisemitism in the world was in Laos. Thailand was much higher than that.

But some Jews in Thailand are living in more international areas with not only Thais.

In Pattaya, it feels as if the non-Thais dominate the Thais.

So it is not only about the Thais.

I wonder if they should have asked his reason for not wanting to be in the same room as a Jew. if there was a personal reason or just something he was told? I had a friend who was Chinese when I was a kid, one day he turned around to me and said he couldn't be friends with me because his parents found out I was Jewish. We had been friend for a couple of years.

Most peoples hatred, because that is what it is, is from ignorance.

[Scott]

Such nonsense should not be entertained with any type of discussion. It's difficult to believe that anyone could be fine knowing someone and then change their mind so completely based on their religious affiliation. The same goes for those who don't wish to share an office with a Muslim.

We had one office in which there was a Nigerian Muslim who shared an office with a Ugandan Christian (who had converted from Islam to Christianity) and a Jewish person. They managed to get along quite well.

As they say, haters are going to hate.

[ggold]

Such nonsense should not be entertained with any type of discussion. It's difficult to believe that anyone could be fine knowing someone and then change their mind so completely based on their religious affiliation. The same goes for those who don't wish to share an office with a Muslim.

We had one office in which there was a Nigerian Muslim who shared an office with a Ugandan Christian (who had converted from Islam to Christianity) and a Jewish person. They managed to get along quite well.

As they say, haters are going to hate.

I think it is an indication that racism is handed down from father to son or daughter. I did not know what to say to my Chinese friend when he said that, what could you say?

It seems he was not prepared to go against his parents, even though he knew me as a person. We were both about 15 years of age at the time, we were in the same class at school.

But as a Jew I can say you get hardened to it. It is expected that people are anti semitic. But what are you going to do every time someone makes a racist remark, do you stand up as a Jew and say that is racist and get into a fight? I would have lost count of the number of fights I would have had if I went through life that way.

In a couple or so generations the Christians are going to feel very discriminated against, When the Muslim diaspora population out numbers them!

As a Jew I might be tempted to say poetic justice!

What I mean by that is racists should know what it is like to be discriminated against, maybe they might learn something from it. Maybe that is why some have a hard time accepting Thai ways?

Edited April 19, 2015 by ggold

[Jingthing]

I want to add something that is maybe obvious, but just in case it is not.

Not all Jews can "pass" for not being Jewish even if they want to.

Why?

Unambiguous ethnic appearance. Face it, you know it, anyone who knows about Jews can sometimes definitely tell if someone is Jewish just based on the look.

Religious obligation. For very religious Jews they are obligated to present publicly as visible Jews (dress, kippahs, etc.).

Last name. This is more of a private coming out thing. Thais may not know it but many people in the world know if your name is Goldberg, you are a Jew. Obviously people can't see your last name in public so that's more of a thing with more direct interaction in daily life.

Many American Jews of my parents generation changed their last names to avoid antisemitic discrimination. Many famous entertainers have done the same thing as a tactic to maximize their career potential.

Jews throughout the ages have been familiar with issues around passing as non-Jews.

Obviously during periods of great persecution, passing as a non-Jew might save your life.

In Inquisition Spain etc., many forced "converts" were just faking it, they were still secret Jews.

In my own family there is a story which of course I can't verify of my grandmother who when young was blonde and blue eyed. Her story is that she fooled some murdering Cossacks that she was not Jewish and her life was spared. True or not, I can't know.

Nothing so serious in Thailand today .... but remember what happened in Mumbai not that long ago.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

Such nonsense should not be entertained with any type of discussion. It's difficult to believe that anyone could be fine knowing someone and then change their mind so completely based on their religious affiliation. The same goes for those who don't wish to share an office with a Muslim.

We had one office in which there was a Nigerian Muslim who shared an office with a Ugandan Christian (who had converted from Islam to Christianity) and a Jewish person. They managed to get along quite well.

As they say, haters are going to hate.

I think it is an indication that racism is handed down from father to son or daughter. I did not know what to say to my Chinese friend when he said that, what could you say?

It seems he was not prepared to go against his parents, even though he knew me as a person. We were both about 15 years of age at the time, we were in the same class at school.

But as a Jew I can say you get hardened to it. It is expected that people are anti semitic. But what are you going to do every time someone makes a racist remark, do you stand up as a Jew and say that is racist and get into a fight? I would have lost count of the number of fights I would have had if I went through life that way.

In a couple or so generations the Christians are going to feel very discriminated against, When the Muslim diaspora population out numbers them!

As a Jew I might be tempted to say poetic justice!

What I mean by that is racists should know what it is like to be discriminated against, maybe they might learn something from it. Maybe that is why some have a hard time accepting Thai ways?

Was your Chinese friend a Muslim and/or a Christian ?

If non of them, why do you claim poetic justice 'as a Jew' between these 2 religions...who have nothing to do with facts and figures of the OP ?

Isn't that the sort of dark wishful thinking ('schadenfreude') who's a catalisator for rascism in both directions ?

Did you read the 92 pages report of Kantor University Tel Aviv from topic and screen the poetic un-justice of these tragic Jewish victims of 2014 ?

http://www.aftau.org/document.doc?id=362

Edited April 19, 2015 by Thorgal

[Yahooka]

Anti-Muslims acts have hit a record high in the first trimester of 2015, according to the head of the French National Observatory against Islamophobia.

: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/record-number-of-anti-muslim-acts-in-france/

Islamaphobia ??

[Jingthing]

Such nonsense should not be entertained with any type of discussion. It's difficult to believe that anyone could be fine knowing someone and then change their mind so completely based on their religious affiliation. The same goes for those who don't wish to share an office with a Muslim.

We had one office in which there was a Nigerian Muslim who shared an office with a Ugandan Christian (who had converted from Islam to Christianity) and a Jewish person. They managed to get along quite well.

As they say, haters are going to hate.

I think it is an indication that racism is handed down from father to son or daughter. I did not know what to say to my Chinese friend when he said that, what could you say?

It seems he was not prepared to go against his parents, even though he knew me as a person. We were both about 15 years of age at the time, we were in the same class at school.

But as a Jew I can say you get hardened to it. It is expected that people are anti semitic. But what are you going to do every time someone makes a racist remark, do you stand up as a Jew and say that is racist and get into a fight? I would have lost count of the number of fights I would have had if I went through life that way.

In a couple or so generations the Christians are going to feel very discriminated against, When the Muslim diaspora population out numbers them!

As a Jew I might be tempted to say poetic justice!

What I mean by that is racists should know what it is like to be discriminated against, maybe they might learn something from it. Maybe that is why some have a hard time accepting Thai ways?

Was your Chinese friend a Muslim and/or a Christian ?

If non of them, why do you claim poetic justice 'as a Jew' between these 2 religions...who have nothing to do with facts and figures of the OP ?

Isn't that the sort of dark wishful thinking ('schadenfreude') who's a catalisator for rascism in both directions ?

Did you read the 92 pages report of Kantor University Tel Aviv from topic and screen the poetic un-justice of these tragic Jewish victims of 2014 ?

http://www.aftau.org/document.doc?id=362

Ignoring the baiting questions to another, credit where credit is due, it appears you have posted a very excellent, informative, and on topic link. Thank you so much.

The overall feeling among many Jewish people is one of living in an intensifying antiJewish environment that has become not only insulting and threatening, but outright dangerous, and that they are facing an explosion of hatred towards them as individuals, their communities, and Israel, as a Jewish state. Comparisons to the 1930s are rampant, because Jews realized, especially in Europe that there are no more taboos and restrictions when it comes to antisemitic manifestations, and certainly no proportion between the unfolding events and the actual number of Jews in their respective communities and their real impact on the societies they live in; or between the intensive debate on Israel's role in the Middle East and the lack of such a debate when it comes to other Middle Eastern conflicts. Jewish community leaders and heads of organizations feel that they are put to test, because of the question hovering over the heads of the Jewish communities: What future is there for communities and individuals, especially in Europe. The issue is not only a matter of having more security means provided by the respective states, but rather of the ability to lead full Jewish life in Europe, especially under heavy police and even army protection, and the necessity to add self-defense to the communities' agenda.

This is something I'm not sure many people are getting. While I wasn't alive in the 1930s of course, my feeling is the current eruption of global antisemitism is definitely the worse I have seen in my life and I never expected to see it this bad in my life.

[up-country_sinclair]

The report by researchers at Tel Aviv University recorded 766 incidents — ranging from armed assaults to vandalism

So vandalism is considered an "violent attack"?

If those researchers are prone to writing certain words in ALL capital letters, then they would FIT IN just fine with some of the members on THIS forum.

Anyway, as someone posted above, "haters gonna hate", and that's the simple truth. I would like to see comparable statistics of similar "violent attacks" against other religious groups. Have attacks against Muslims, Sikhs, HIndus increased since last year? I would guess that the answer is yes. In fact, I would guess that a large percentage of the attacks against Sikhs were made by complete morons who mistook them for Muslims.

The center releases the report every year on the eve of Israel's Holocaust memorial day

Of course they do.

[dexterm]

As has been said earlier on this thread racists are racists. They will hate anyone who is of a different race, color, or religion, probably because of their own inferiority complex.

Ironically, Islmaphobes could indirectly be contributing to anti Semitism, by whipping up xenophobic hysteria which causes attacks on Sikhs, Hindus, Jews,and Muslims alike.

Moscow’s Chief Rabbi at the Conference of the European Rabbis (CER) appears to agree.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pope-condemns-worrying-resurgence-of-anti-semitism/

Moscow’s Chief Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt, who is also president of CER, says Jews in Europe were the “collateral damage” of an anti-Muslim offensive orchestrated by the extreme right.

The CER is one of the leading voices of Judaism in Europe and brings together more than 700 Jewish religious leaders.